Car manufactures want to make it illegal to program your car.

Hatchet

Original poster
Member
Nov 21, 2011
2,405
They want to make it illegal for you to tune your vehicle or touch any computers.


https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-ford-others-want-working-own-car-illegal-160000229.html

One of the inherent rights of owning a vehicle is the ability to get on one’s backside — a wrench in one hand and a grease rag in the other, and just tinker to your little heart’s desire. Since the vehicle was invented, it’s been an important facet within the community of gearheads.
General Motors — the same company responsible for 87 deaths related to faulty ignition switches, FYI — wants to take that right away from you citing safety and security issues. Along with a few other big names.
It’s called the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). It’s been around since 2000 and started as anti-Internet piracy legislation. But automakers want to use it to try and make working on your own car illegal. Yes, illegal. The general premise is that unlike cars of the past, today’s vehicles are so advanced and use such a large amount of software and coding in their general makeup, altering said code could be dangerous and possibly even malicious.
RELATED: See Photos of the Chevrolet Corvette Z06

Listing the vehicle as a “mobile computing device,” the law would hypothetically protect automakers from pesky owners looking to alter any sort of technology in the vehicle that relates to the onboard computer. Flashing your ECU would be a big no no, which could also lead to all sorts of problems for aftermarket shops.
What GM, and even tractor companies like John Deere, argues is that you, as an owner, don’t actually own your car. Rather, you’re sort of just borrowing it for an extended amount of time and paying for the rights to use the technology. If it sounds ridiculous— it is. But it gets even more ludicrous.
According to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, John Deere argued that “letting people modify car computer systems will result in them pirating music through the on-board entertainment system.”
That’s right— pirating music. Through a tractor.
RELATED: This Multi-Armed Tractor is Agricultural Erotica

DMCA does give a little bit of leeway, though. While the act could hypothetically lock customers out of key safety features, it would still allow owners the ability to repair other areas of the vehicle’s onboard computer as they see fit. It’s a slim compromise, but one that may be more closely based in reality.
As it currently sits, there are 13 (!) large automakers on the list supporting the DMCA. Want to know who they are? Of course you do:
General Motors Company
BMW Group
FCA US LLC
Ford Motor Company
Jaguar Land Rover
Mazda
Mercedes-Benz USA
Mitsubishi Motors
Porsche
Toyota
Volkswagen Group of America
Volvo Cars North America
Ironically, one of the brands that relies most on technology in its vehicles — Tesla Motors — in not in support of DMCA. While other American companies like GM, Ford and Chrysler all agree that working on your own vehicle should be punishable by law.
Funny how three brands that pride themselves on American ingenuity don’t want customers to work on their cars.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Lawyers, Money, Greed are at work. Dang it Man!
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
26,360
Ottawa, ON
Wow. Just wow. Now I can understand if one OEM wants to prevent another from copying the code that runs their cars, but prevent us from modifying them? They're citing safety. Ha! So we can program their shit to run better than they can. If we do something that makes our vehicle unsafe, it's our problem, not theirs. Ever since the ignition switch and gas pedal suits, they've been over sensitive about safety. I would imagine that they would find a way to lock them down, possibly with encryption and/or passwords. Can't be a master password because that would get out real fast. It would be kept on their main servers and made available when required.
 

hrddrv

Member
Dec 4, 2011
120
It is not just car manufactures. Tractor manufacturers are jumping on the band wagon too.
 

AtlWrk

Member
Dec 6, 2011
674
This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with safety. This is merely an alarmist ("but think of the childrens!") ploy to lock down IP and lock out competition (repair shops, third party software vendors, performance tuners, etc.).

You can bet if Apple, Motorola, Samsung, etc. figured out a way to claim safety concerns with locking down their phones the jailbreak exemption never would've made it through.

It's time to scrap the DMCA altogether. It's a disaster and it's only going to get worse. Too bad DC is in big Hollywood's pocket. <sigh>

EDIT: At least there is some pushback: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/calling-all-new-yorkers-speak-fair-repair
 
  • Like
Reactions: hrddrv

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
26,360
Ottawa, ON

AtlWrk

Member
Dec 6, 2011
674
But modifying/disabling emissions systems is already illegal...

Therein lies the problem: the DMCA locks down tons of legitimate uses (repair, tinkering, upgrading, diagnosing, fair use, etc.) under the guise of preventing a handful of unlawful ones because DMCA prohibits circumventing the DRM.

Sorry, this crap makes my blood boil.
 

littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,268
Most people follow the laws. The few that don't still won't, so why bother.... oh yea, dealer service, since they can't get it right the first 5 times you bring it in. Money anyone?
 
  • Like
Reactions: hrddrv

MAY03LT

Member
Nov 18, 2011
3,431
Delmarva
What GM, and even tractor companies like John Deere, argues is that you, as an owner, don’t actually own your car. Rather, you’re sort of just borrowing it for an extended amount of time and paying for the rights to use the technology.
But yet when something with the technology built into it breaks, we foot the fill. That sounds more like bought then borrowed.

Also, you wouldn't download a john deere.
 

djthumper

Administrator
Nov 20, 2011
14,956
North Las Vegas
They are now joining the ranks of Microsoft...
 

dmanns67

Member
Apr 3, 2013
32,979
Ohio
MAY03LT said:
But yet when something with the technology built into it breaks, we foot the fill. That sounds more like bought then borrowed.

Also, you wouldn't download a john deere.
I like that. "Just borrowing the vehicle for an indefinite amount of time." So if I am just "borrowing" the vehicle, you can have it back when it breaks down and foot the bill :no: SPK.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AtlWrk

northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,390
WNY
It's almost impossibe now....since 2011 GM and others have incorporated "Global A Electrical Architecture" and it makes it almost impossible to change anything electrical.
I couldn't even change the climate control module in my wife's Equinox and if you try (as I did) it can cause all sorts of problems that you did'nt have before. It seems that soon we will be totally at the mercy of the dealer...Mike.
 

SnowBlazer

Member
Jun 9, 2014
5,775
Colorado Springs
What the hell happened to the days of hanging in the garage and working on your car? Dealerships
 

littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,268
Been a downhill spiral since efi started.
 

NJTB

Member
Aug 27, 2012
612
Flemington, NJ
northcreek said:
It's almost impossibe now....since 2011 GM and others have incorporated "Global A Electrical Architecture" and it makes it almost impossible to change anything electrical.
I couldn't even change the climate control module in my wife's Equinox and if you try (as I did) it can cause all sorts of problems that you did'nt have before. It seems that soon we will be totally at the mercy of the dealer...Mike.
How did you resolve this, and what were the other problems?
 

northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,390
WNY
NJTB said:
How did you resolve this, and what were the other problems?
I reinstalled the orignal module as it only acted up in extremely hot days and my wife will probably have to live with it. I hate these new climate cotnrols, they are too slow to react and a bitch to fix. What was wrong with hot/cold & fan speed lever controls?
My wife says that it does wierd things now and then but, I'm not sure if it's the car or her. It seems okay when I've used it.
I think if I had messed with powertrain controls it could be a mess....Mike.
 

Tiggerr

Member
Jun 6, 2013
1,324
Perrysburg, OH
I find this to be no news at all lol... This has been a long time coming my friends! Grew up in a shop basically. My fathers been a mechanic for 40+ yrs. they've been making it harder and harder for everyone including independent shops. Can't even get service manuals for much these days.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
26,360
Ottawa, ON
And we'll continue to find ways to break into them, just like hackers It will just be more difficult and time consuming.

Manuals? Ha! Just need to find the right pirate with the right warez. GM-SI anyone? No problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hrddrv and Blckshdw

hrddrv

Member
Dec 4, 2011
120
Mooseman said:
And we'll continue to find ways to break into them, just like hackers It will just be more difficult and time consuming.

Manuals? Ha! Just need to find the right pirate with the right warez. GM-SI anyone? No problem.
I was thinking more like rooting and putting in our own OS like CM or Linux.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
I figure worst case it would lead to the rise of aftermarket computers. Can't use the built in one? Fine, here's a universal with an adapter harness, now there is no longer any "tampering" with copyrighted PCM software :raspberry:
 

Forum Statistics

Threads
23,821
Posts
643,785
Members
19,580
Latest member
Bowtie Madness

Members Online