Buying my first house!!

[Jkust]

I
write off repair costs when it comes to tax season.
a program like that in your state.
Or sometimes there are grants.
even goverment programs
first time home buyers grant, which pays for the 1% tax that you have

Holy income redistribution up in Canada and I thought MN was bad.

 

[walterc4553]

i'm learning the windows lesson good and hard rite now... check them for drafts... a few of mine you can feel the breeze from outside... and they are new plastic ones but they suck. gunna be a rough winter lol

Window Drafts are easy to repair.
Get a good electronic temp scan tool from your fav big box store.

Get a temp from a good solid wall that has good insulation. Then go around the doors and windows. Anything more then a 10deg drop and you have a draft. Also good for inspecting insulation values around the house. Pocket of bad insulation or poor insulation can be repaired with minimal intrusion.

Take off the trim and use the Door/window spray insulation.

A bigger issue is if the wood rots due to lack of care/maintenance. I found out the hard way that my windows were not cared for. Luckily I only had to replace the sash around the glass on 5 windows and not the casing. But I did have to do two patio doors. One fell out of the framing and the glass fell out of the sash when I took off the siding and trim.

 

[TollKeeper]

The Voy may, or may not, get a garage space. All depends if some of my stuff will fit in the out buildings, 69 camaro, 29 plymouth, 90 grand prix track car, and my wife will be getting at least 1 garage space. I wanted a 4-6 garage house, but that raises the price to over 400k. About 225k more than I can afford. Thats another reason I wanted a decent size lot with minimal zoning laws. I can add another garage if needed later.

 

[Badbart]

The Voy may, or may not, get a garage space. All depends if some of my stuff will fit in the out buildings, 69 camaro, 29 plymouth, 90 grand prix track car, and my wife will be getting at least 1 garage space. I wanted a 4-6 garage house, but that raises the price to over 400k. About 225k more than I can afford. Thats another reason I wanted a decent size lot with minimal zoning laws. I can add another garage if needed later.

You need more than .51 acres!

 

[TollKeeper]

I see your point on the electical outlets. However, I also have an avenue of putting in more electrical outlets with only moderate work, and no tearing out of walls. The attic is open, with a crawl space from the garage. I had my brother get up there to see if he could get to various walls, to fish new cords in. There were also ways to fish the new cords in from the basement (drop ceiling).

As a whole, I really dont see the need for the updating that some of you are pointing out. I will agree that the kitchen, and green bathroom need to have something done. We already have a new fridge, and are keeping an eye out for a drop in stove. Past that, my wife and I rather enjoy the rustic feel of the house. If you saw my cabin up in the mountians, with no running water, or sewer, you might understand this.

It has newer windows, that I did check for drafts, and none were found. The Jacuzzi was in very good condition, a 10 person version.

My biggest concern is the roof. It being original from when the house was built. There are some sofets damage. Will probly require replacement of all the gutters, and header boards. I dont know the conidtion of the 1/2 plyboard.

Before any contracts are signed, I am paying for my own inspectors to go out, inspect the roof, basement, foundation, water, heat/AC, etc. Once/If the bank accepts my offer, before any contracts are signed, I will have a roof replacement estimate, basement repair estimate, and, landscaping estimate in my hand. I have already decided what my price break is going to be. If after the price of the house, and these estimates are out of my budget, I will move on..

I can write off the costs for updating the roof, and other repairs. I can also get a grant for it as long as I use some special shingle. I can also get a grant to install solar panals (seriously considering it).

In regards to the pics..

1st pic: Not much can be dont about the curb appeal really. This house is in the country. Their is no asphalt/concrete road in front of the house, just a drainage ditch. Its just dirt. I do have plans, down the road, that are kinda 2 fold. If the city plans to come in with a street, do nothing. If they dont plan on it, than to get a couple loads of rock, or maybe paving stones, and lay it in front of the drive. I agree about the trees, and luckily, I am handy with a chainsaw, and my moms neighbor said he would loan me his stump grinder if I need it. I would prefer to get rid of the fence entirely, but my wife wants a dog, and so the fence stays. I may do something, but entirely down the road.

2nd Pic: Again with the chainsaw bit. Before any contracts are signed, going to get the roof, gutters, sofets estimates done. Have it all done at once. The patio doors I know how to maintain and will tackle those..

3rd pic: Maybe I am not seeing what you are seeing. The windows are complete, and have been sealed. I am more concerned with screens on the windows to be honest. I have animals, and I dont need them to get out.

4th pic: Agreed

5th pic: Wood was actually in good shape. The entire bathroom needs to be updated here. This is a spare bathroom, so I dont want to go all out. But it would get a good cleaning until I am at the point for an update,

6th pic: I actually love this bathroom. It is almost perfectly clean too. Surprising considering the other bathrooms. I dont want to do anything to it. And amazingly, my wife agrees .

7th pic: The Carpet thruout the house is actually newer. Replaced 18 months ago, and its a good density, and has a good pad under it. The Crown, and base, ehh. I will agree if I were to sell it down the road, it would be a concern. But that room, in particular, is going to be my computer room. Havent really decided what all I am going to do with it yet... I do plan on running a dedicated power line for my computers straight to the fuse box, with a splitter for the generator. The other room, not pictured, is going to be my wifes craft room. It is a horrid pink color, but she likes it. It also has the same mismatched crown/base mismatch. The pink room also has chested drawers, and shelving units built into the walls. 2 of them, they work, none of the drawers are falling apart, and they are made out of real wood, not partical board.

8th pic: This is a mud room 1/2 bath. Sits right across from the upstairs laundry, and directly off the entrance from the back yard, and garage. I doubt much work will get done on it, except maybe some back splashing to keep my greasey hand prints off the wall. Havent really thought about this bathroom much. Its there, it exists, and it works.

9th pic: The kitchen I do plan a complete remodel. My wife is a decent cook, and I have already bought a 2500$ fridge, and she likes this 1000 dollar electric stove. Its a floor type model, and not a drop it. Would require redoing the cabinets. And althou I am not against it... The cabinets in the kitchen, again, are real wood. not particle board. might just have to refinish them, and mill them out to fit the kitchen the way we plan it out.. Will have to make sure we decide on a final layout before any cutting begins.. I prefer gas appliances, but she wants electric, and its the way the house is already wired.

All in all, I plan on dropping about 30-35k on the house in the first 10 months. Roof, kitchen, sofets, and AC (someone stole the AC Condensor), and landscapeing. Then out of my personal time will come tree cutting, pruning, etc..

Anyways my break is over, time to get back to work.. 65 hour work weeks suck. Its another reason I want to move from where I am, to Denver area. Same pay, but only 40 hours work in 4 days. Right now I am at 65, in 6 days.

 

[Jkust]

As a whole, I really dont see the need for the updating that some of you are pointing out. my wife and I rather enjoy the rustic feel of the house.

After hearing the whole story here and your thought process I will just say go for it. Where I see endless toiling and trips to Home Depot, you see opportunity, where I am ok with rustic at the cabin, I'm not at home. Vintage 1920's/1930's maybe every room but a kitchen I'm ok with, but vintage 1970's would mean to me that every second of my free time, I couldn't relax knowing there are 50 more projects left to be done. Life is short, even if you live to 100 and spending time on a bunch of projects in your precious free time in the prime of your life instead of the truly important things in life isn't for me and especially with 100k in my pocket as you do and not a desperate cash poor person clammering at anything they can get into. One maintainance or upgrade type project a year is all i'm good for with life as busy as it is. This to me is the very definition of different strokes... Good luck and I hope things go as smoothly as expected.

 

[TollKeeper]

Well, as it sits, I rejected the banks counter offer, and the bank rejected my counter offer. I wont go above 150 seeing how much work this house needs. And the bank wont go below 160...

So the house hunt continues.. My wife is kinda upset about it thou. She was looking forward to this house. I just cant see spending 160k on a house that needs at least 50k in work. I know the house will eventually have equity, but it wont be anytime soon, and I cant justify dropping my own equity in it, with no garentees.

I forsee the bank calling me back in about a month, and asking if the 150 offer is still on the table. So does my real estate agent...

 

[fletch09]

Well, as it sits, I rejected the banks counter offer, and the bank rejected my counter offer. I wont go above 150 seeing how much work this house needs. And the bank wont go below 160...

So the house hunt continues.. My wife is kinda upset about it thou. She was looking forward to this house. I just cant see spending 160k on a house that needs at least 50k in work. I know the house will eventually have equity, but it wont be anytime soon, and I cant justify dropping my own equity in it, with no garentees.

I forsee the bank calling me back in about a month, and asking if the 150 offer is still on the table. So does my real estate agent...

if that does happen, i would start back @ your original offer.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

if that does happen, i would start back @ your original offer.

Agreed and I deal in real estate every day. Foreclosures are some of the best values out there. If your wife really likes it and so do you...resubmit your offer in 2-3 weeks. They will likely be at the point they are forced to lower the price by their internal rules if they are like most banks.

 

[Meltdown211]

As a former Real Estate agent for many years, That house needs ALOT of work, just from the pictures. I did NOT read all the above posts BUT IMHO, that entire home needed to be gutted, the 60's bathrooms, the 70's kitchen, the roof, Old hot tubs are ENERGY HOGS and plagued with problems and leaks. That home says money pit all over it and its a blessing you did not get it. That home would probably be an investment at 80K. At $160k even if the market recovered tomorrow and home value went up, yours would not sell because nothing has been updated, you then have to spend thousands of dollars just to bring the home up to market value and that money is wasted. Why put all that initial money into it? I think you said 35K initially? Thats a bad investment if you ask me. You are gambling that the market is going to recover and home prices will go over your investment and repair price..bad idea. You should find a good financial planner who can show you how to take that money and turn it in to alot more in 20 years. Putting all that money into a home in this economy is just NOT smart financial thinking and its how many people thought they would make a killing BEFORE the market crash. The market will not return to those prices for 20+ years. This is a leveling out period. This is really where home prices SHOULD be, not the over inflated prices of pre 07.

Quite frankly there are many homes out there that are much more complete and move in ready. If you have the patients to keep looking you WILL find the right one and you will know it. The idea of buying your first home is not to spend every free moment repairing, replacing, demo'ing etc. Its to be enjoyed by you and your wife.

Keep looking, everything happens for a reason...

Melty

 

[Jkust]

You will look back in 5 years and thank all of us discenters. What i've figured out over the years is those that take advice from folks who have been there (presuming the advice givers made something of themselves and even if they haven't if politics are involved) go much further in life. I learned many years ago that not at least seriously considering others advice gets you a reputation as an 'i'm always right' type of person. I can list off former colleagues like that never made it to the big leagues exactly because of always feeling they know better. My point I suppose is as an enthusiast, we all want to see you get the most for the least so you can live the best life possible and add more mods to your 360. If someone such as myself and some of the others are so blatently open about what a dog the house is all things considered, I would have had serious reservations. Either they must be crazy or you are seeing the house through the wrong lens. I got the sense you were posting looking for agreement and discounting the discenters. To me buying that house makes as much sense as walking straight into traffic.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

One HUGE thing to consider is your market there. I have my house listed at 125K with little interest but older smaller houses are selling for 250K an hour away. 200K just on the otherside of town. You are asking for advice/help on something extremely market dependant. Find an agent you trust or find a couple agents...hell for the investment you are considering, fly out for a couple weeks and be damn sure you know what is what. All these comment on the house condition are somewhat stupid to me. If you can buy and fix up in the place you want it maybe be worth 3 years work or 100K. jkust sees prices double for vehicles compared to other markets, because of his location.

CO is not hurting as bad as some areas. IN where I live and do Real Estate work is infinitely better than FL as market goes. I used to live there and still watch the Tallahassee market some since I have family there and would live there myself again. That market is shit compared to Indianapolis. We lost 10-20 percent they lost 50 percent in many cases.

You are truly not going to get responses you should base your purchase on here. Unless someone in the field from that area of CO happens to be here.


FYI- I would love to buy my parents house which has seen no updates since the 70s. Can be bought in what these days would be a "hot" market for 1/2 what it is worth with updates and the updates would be half of that. So simple numbers...buy at 100 spend 50 and its worth 200. Well worth it to me, not so much to others that wont live in a house getting "modded." Sounds like you would do as I would. Buy cheap, live with the situation and work to end up far ahead.

 

[Meltdown211]

You have to consider Return on investment. He is going to sink 35K in 10 months into a home that need signifigant renovation. EVERY room in that home needs a complete overhaul. He has pink and green bathtubs in 2 of his bathrooms and the third looks like the cabinets from the 60's. You probably have another 25k+ in renovations for those 3 bathrooms alone. He also has well water and a septic system. Depending on the year the home was built those systems are probably near their useful lifespan, take into account that NOBODY wants a septic tank to deal with OR well water anymore. Which makes the home even more undesireable. So those issues will need to be addressed at some point. with a signifigant price tag attached.

If the city decides to INSTALL city water (which if the neighborhood is growning and modernizing), you are looking at a minimum of 10K (which can be paid off over a period of years) but the home cannot be sold until the city is paid. You also have to disclose to potential buyers if you know the city is going to install city water within 2 years, which then becomes the burden of the prospective new owner and may kill the deal.

I am assuming that you are looking at this home because of its size. 4000sq ft is a large home. So I also assume you believe a large home equates to more value when its sold. I think about this because as a first time buyer, no children (assumption), this is a poor choice for a first time home owner with a small family. Your energy bill will be triple, property taxes, maintenence costs, EVERYTHING is 2-3 times more expensive in a home that size. Your wife will be pulling her hair out due to the amount of time cleaning that home. LOL


If this were a client of mine? With the money he is looking to spend? Go interview some builders...they are all looking for business and can build you something 100% more modern and to your specifications that can be sold for a profit with less problems. If you want to spend 200K on a home ($145 +35K) they can build you something you both would be very happy with. If you dont want to build, keep looking, I truly believe you will NEVER get your money out of that home based on what little information I have at this point.

By the time you get ready to sell that property, its going to be even older and more difficult to sell, if this home is in a neighborhood of homes that are selling in the 300-500K RIGHT NOW, THEN I would make the investment. If there are no other homes close to yours that are higher end and selling well, i would pass on this one...

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

I perfer to get home with a septic and well. Many do as your monthly bills are lower.[/COLOR]


If the city decides to INSTALL city water (which if the neighborhood is growning and modernizing), you are looking at a minimum of 10K (which can be paid off over a period of years) but the home cannot be sold until the city is paid. You also have to disclose to potential buyers if you know the city is going to install city water within 2 years, which then becomes the burden of the prospective new owner and may kill the deal.
Where the hell did you get the minimum 10K? It is quite difficult for a municipality to force you to connect if you hae functioning well or septic.

I am assuming that you are looking at this home because of its size. 4000sq ft is a large home. So I also assume you believe a large home equates to more value when its sold. I think about this because as a first time buyer, no children (assumption), this is a poor choice for a first time home owner with a small family. Your energy bill will be triple, property taxes, maintenence costs, EVERYTHING is 2-3 times more expensive in a home that size. Your wife will be pulling her hair out due to the amount of time cleaning that home. LOL
I would beg to differ...The OP stated they were starting a family. Why buy smaller and then be forced to find a larger house later. It is a smart move to buy now for what will be needed and avoid the hassle of relocating.

If this were a client of mine? With the money he is looking to spend? Go interview some builders...they are all looking for business and can build you something 100% more modern and to your specifications that can be sold for a profit with less problems. If you want to spend 200K on a home ($145 +35K) they can build you something you both would be very happy with. If you dont want to build, keep looking, I truly believe you will NEVER get your money out of that home based on what little information I have at this point.

You are in MI, he is looking in CO. Building prices vary hugely over a 50 mile difference in location, much less 1000 plus. Are you sure he could build for that and get what he desires?


By the time you get ready to sell that property, its going to be even older and more difficult to sell, if this home is in a neighborhood of homes that are selling in the 300-500K RIGHT NOW, THEN I would make the investment. If there are no other homes close to yours that are higher end and selling well, i would pass on this one...

I look forward to your response

 

[Jkust]

jkust sees prices double for vehicles compared to other markets, because of his location.

30%-40% more not quite double depending on the market. Colorado is a liberal bastion very similar to Minnesota economy.

I am assuming that you are looking at this home because of its size. 4000sq ft is a large home. So Your energy bill will be triple, property taxes, maintenence costs, EVERYTHING is 2-3 times more expensive in a home that size. Your wife will be pulling her hair out due to the amount of time cleaning that home.

To echo that there are several downsides to living in a large house. You would literally shit if I told you how much it cost to heat our pretty efficient house and the electric bill is insane as well. I won't get into the over the top property tax bill and so far maintenance has been minor because we used higher end materials on everything inside and out. The biggest thing you really notice day to is how long it takes to clean it. You can spend an entire day of non-stop work to clean only two of the levels. All the different materials, wood, granite, carpet etc, etc need different care. That's just basic cleaning. Even something as simple as changing a light bulb requires a 20 foot ladder and a fixure swap requires full industrial scafolding be set up. It's a huge pain.

 

[Meltdown211]

But HardTrailz... Im not sure what your saying here...are you just trying to interject here as you have some knowledge of Real Estate? First off, if you are a Real Estate agent of any caliber, you advise your buyers of the benefits and pitfalls of home ownership. Im not here to debate with you. I would NEVER advise a first time buyer to purchase a 4000 sqr ft home that needs as much renovation as this one. First off, I dont know the financial status of this person, ill make an assumption. He has a nice nest egg, a stable job and makes decent money (based on the down payment and ability to put another 35K into it, there could be a number or reasons why im wrong, lottery, Inheritance, whatever).

Second, thats the stupidest thing I have heard.."Why buy smaller and then be forced to find a larger house later. It is a smart move to buy now for what will be needed and avoid the hassle of relocating." As first time buyers...most have NO idea of whats "needed".

Are you kidding me?? 4000 sq ft??? A more realistic goal would be to find a less ambitious fixer upper, 1800 to 2000 (but that only my opinion)

If you were my Real Estate agent? I'd kick your ass to the curb. If I thought you were selling my son a 4000 sqr ft home as a first time buyer with all the shit wrong with it??? You would be gone. They dont need a home that size unless they are planning to adopt a small tribe... Too many asshole realtors selling property to people just to make a buck, no concern for the buyers future and wellbeing. I am an ADVISOR, I help my clients make a smart financial decision in making one of the biggest purchasing decisions of their lives.

As first time home buyers, they have NO IDEA whats in store for them and how difficult home ownership can be. Yes, they ARE starting a family, you obiously have no children OR are too young to understand...When you have kids, your resourses are streched, your time is consumed, your bills are increased, your life is upside down for awhile. If you READ with the OP said, he is working quite a bit, and then to have to come home and tear apart three bathrooms, landscape and the numerous other repairs, deal with his babies, maintain a relationship with his wife, try to go on vacation, etc, etc... this guy will jump off a bridge!

Yes, I am pretty sure he could find a builder to put a fantastic home together for them..it SURELY wont be 4000sqr ft, but 2000 to 2500 is something they should be able to handle relatively easy with little risk of catastophic failure of the septic, furnace, roof, major reno of every room, inflated energy and gas cost along with tremendous amount of energy trying to clean it...which we who have/had children know, we REALLY want to clean a 4000 sqr ft home after dealing with babies all day, and no sleep for the first 6 months of birth...yea...listen to this guy... There's my response you were waiting for...

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

But HardTrailz... Im not sure what your saying here...are you just trying to interject here as you have some knowledge of Real Estate? First off, if you are a Real Estate agent of any caliber, you advise your buyers of the benefits and pitfalls of home ownership. Im not here to debate with you. I would NEVER advise a first time buyer to purchase a 4000 sqr ft home that needs as much renovation as this one. First off, I dont know the financial status of this person, ill make an assumption. He has a nice nest egg, a stable job and makes decent money (based on the down payment and ability to put another 35K into it, there could be a number or reasons why im wrong, lottery, Inheritance, whatever).

Second, thats the stupidest thing I have heard.."Why buy smaller and then be forced to find a larger house later. It is a smart move to buy now for what will be needed and avoid the hassle of relocating."

I bought the 2000 square foot builder home 3 years ago and now it royally sucks to sell it to move. We had no children then and do now. I wish I had bought a bigger home and would have if I had been in the financial position the OP is

Are you kidding me?? 4000 sq ft??? A more realistic goal would be to find a less ambitious fixer upper, 1800 to 2000 (but that only my opinion)
Agreed

If you were my Real Estate agent? I'd kick your ass to the curb. If I thought you were selling my son a 4000 sqr ft home as a first time buyer with all the shit wrong with it??? You would be gone. They dont need a home that size unless they are planning to adopt a small tribe... Too many asshole realtors selling property to people just to make a buck, no concern for the buyers future and wellbeing. I am an ADVISOR, I help my clients make a smart financial decision in making one of the biggest purchasing decisions of their lives.

I am not a realtor. I work in the real estate field and have for over a decade. I grew up in the business. Buying/selling/flipping(before it became cool)/maintained 40 plus rentals/100s of storage sheds/large apartment buildings/commercial land and buildings/duplexes....I got into foreclosures 5 years ago before everyone else did. HUD/Safeguard lockouts/trashouts/fixing. Hell at one point I flipped and removed the trusses from a flooded house, cut the sidewalls into 9 pieces, trailered it 20 miles and rebuild it on a new foundation. Made money on the house and the floodplain lot. Bought my first house in high school. some sweat equity and a made a 50% profit in little time. I am a licensed Appraiser and do work in the government and private sectors. I have been the buyer and seller. I have been paid as an an ADVISOR as well.


As first time home buyers, they have NO IDEA whats in store for them and how difficult home ownership can be. Yes, they ARE starting a family, you obiously have no children OR are too young to understand...When you have kids, your resourses are streched, your time is consumed, your bills are increased, your life is upside down for awhile. If you READ with the OP said, he is working quite a bit, and then to have to come home and tear apart three bathrooms, landscape and the numerous other repairs, deal with his babies, maintain a relationship with his wife, try to go on vacation, etc, etc... this guy will jump off a bridge!
I have a family, not young. I work hard and since we had our child...my wife no longer works. Cut our income in half, but children do not cost that much if you dont want them to...breastfeeding, cloth diapering. I would love to work on a house of my own, but instead I am away from my family and working on others...redoing plumbing, siding, flooring and all the things the OP wants to do. At least he would be home with his family and doing it.

Yes, I am pretty sure he could find a builder to put a fantastic home together for them..it SURELY wont be 4000sqr ft, but 2000 to 2500 is something they should be able to handle relatively easy with little risk of catastophic failure of the septic, furnace, roof, major reno of every room, inflated energy and gas cost along with tremendous amount of energy trying to clean it...which we who have/had children know, we REALLY want to clean a 4000 sqr ft home after dealing with babies all day, and no sleep for the first 6 months of birth...yea...listen to this guy... There's my response you were waiting for...

I work multiple jobs, have a college education, several licenses which require continuing education, still help with the family's income properties and have a child and support a wife that wanted to stay home. Our 2000 sq ft home is easy to clean, we are selling to get more room for more children. Hopefully a fixer upper that I can build equity in and work on at home with my family.

Sorry you did not sleep for 6 months, never had that issue. Maybe a couple days teething, but I cant say or imply negative things about having a family. I would advise anyone that wants a family to do it. My daughter costs me virtually nothing but brings me more return on investment than anything I have ever been involved in.

 

[Busterbrown]

If I thought you were selling my son a 4000 sqr ft home as a first time buyer with all the shit wrong with it??? You would be gone. They dont need a home that size unless they are planning to adopt a small tribe... Too many asshole realtors selling property to people just to make a buck, no concern for the buyers future and wellbeing. I am an ADVISOR, I help my clients make a smart financial decision in making one of the biggest purchasing decisions of their lives.

Well stated! To many home owners stretched themselves thin when it came to buying homes over the past 10-15 years. This being a major component to the housing crisis of the late 2000's. The era of the McMansions has come and gone. 4000 sq ft homes are so unrealistic for middle class America. Anyone who wants to keep up with the Joneses in today's economy has one hell of a helter-skelter mentality. Now let me watch go watch some programming on my 60" OLED 3-dimensional flat screen that put me back 6K.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Now let me watch go watch some programming on my 60" OLED 3-dimensional flat screen that put me back 6K.

I like my $100 50 inch old school box tv, but still dont have time to watch it with work and keeping up with the truck mods...and the kid.

 

[walterc4553]

Where the hell did you get the minimum 10K? It is quite difficult for a municipality to force you to connect if you hae functioning well or septic.

I would beg to differ...The OP stated they were starting a family. Why buy smaller and then be forced to find a larger house later. It is a smart move to buy now for what will be needed and avoid the hassle of relocating.

I hate to jump in but you would be amazed at the power that the city holds in some/most states. This is one huge difference between local gov in the north and in the south. In the South more of the local power is held by the people. For example. I was in a TownHome Assoc and they asked the city to put an assessment on all of the houses so that they could do improvements to some of the houses. The City put it as a requirement for building occupancy even though my building already had the improvements. When I sold I had to disclose the lean assessment and they pay it off using the sale proceeds before selling the house. Additionally our neighbor was trying to sell before the assessment went through and had to disclose the potential assessment and such the house would not sell.

Another example. Andover, MN where I am at used to be rural water and well for all of the city as the city has expanded and changed the zoning of the lots they have forced the older occupants to install city water and then put an assessment on the house. It happens all the time as city's expand into the country. There are actually lots of ways the city can force you to change from septic to city water. Zoning is the biggest one: Lot size changes, environmental, land use acts, etc. Yes they have to notify you and others in your zone and then hold a city councel meeting and then vote on it. But it is not "quite difficult" as you claim.

As for the cost I think 10K is probably a good rough estimate. The range could be anywhere from 3K to 20K or more. Depending on how far the city water and sewer has to be extended and how many additional people are in the zone but a good rough.

As for size. I am with Jkust and Melty. Size of family for future is just one condition. That is a indication of future value, you have to consider present value and cost. There are present costs that are not being recognized or offset by present value. jkust tried to mention these. The costs being, Heating, Care, Maintenance, taxes, additional house payment for additional sqft. What is the present value that you are getting for those present costs, EGO because of size of home or maybe the present value knowledge that you could have a large family in the future. Those are inconsiquential to me. But to others those could be large. As for buying a smaller home and moving later... Yes I do think that is smart. Buy to your level of need (key word) and then if your need (key word) changes move. With just starting out you are right now buying at the lowest time. Economists are saying it will bottom out this year. Realtors say the bottom has already happened. Economists are saying that it will be 7 - 10 years for home values to return. Realtors are saying 15 -20.

For me I guess I don't get the point of a really big home. I think people believe they need very big homes. We have to remember it was only one or two generations ago that kids slept 2 -3 to a bed and multiple kids shared a room. Why is this wrong now. We didn't turn out so bad.

Finally as for the cost. Jkust said it already but I will also say it. Denver & Boulder has much of the same economic environment, political environment, and costs as the TwinCities/St Cloud does. Probably one of the best one to one comparisons that you can get in the nation. 200K in the Twin Cities. Depending on how many rings out you go for suburbs, you can right now get 1 acre with 3 car garage and 2500 sq ft. This would be in a 4th or 5th ring suburb. Do a OK but not ritzy 1st ring sub and you get 1500sq ft with no garage and .1 acre for 200K. If you want to be in a 1st ring upper or higher class sub around the TwinCities you are looking at $900K MINIMUM for 1500 sqft and .1 Acres. Now then the two 1st ring Subs. They are less then 7 miles apart. The two 200K price houses the one in the 5th ring and the one in the 1st ring are only 17 miles apart.

So the two competing messages were that prices are too variable nation wide to give proper advice and this could be the best deal out there. The other is keep looking and expand your options by looking at building and other areas but use 200K and buy a move in ready home that meets your current need.

I think both are correct. Prices are too variable too give completely proper advice and I don't think any of us have said don't go talk to a realtor. But when talking to the realtor look at other neighbor hoods. Bring up building a home. Extend your drive by 5 miles and your house size could go up with your cost dropping. Think of other options like look for a home that you could go Double deep on the garage. Adding onto a garate is much cheaper then remodling an entire home.

I think that this is the thing that everyone is missing is that the variability in pricing is what plays into TollKeepers advantage and that yes this house he was looking at may be the best fix me upper in the area he was looking. But what about changing some search criteria. By changing a few search criteria he may open up possibilities not thought about before.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

I hate to jump in but you would be amazed at the power that the city holds in some/most states. This is one huge difference between local gov in the north and in the south. In the South more of the local power is held by the people. For example. I was in a TownHome Assoc and they asked the city to put an assessment on all of the houses so that they could do improvements to some of the houses. The City put it as a requirement for building occupancy even though my building already had the improvements. When I sold I had to disclose the lean assessment and they pay it off using the sale proceeds before selling the house. Additionally our neighbor was trying to sell before the assessment went through and had to disclose the potential assessment and such the house would not sell.

Another example. Andover, MN where I am at used to be rural water and well for all of the city as the city has expanded and changed the zoning of the lots they have forced the older occupants to install city water and then put an assessment on the house. It happens all the time as city's expand into the country. There are actually lots of ways the city can force you to change from septic to city water. Zoning is the biggest one: Lot size changes, environmental, land use acts, etc. Yes they have to notify you and others in your zone and then hold a city councel meeting and then vote on it. But it is not "quite difficult" as you claim.

As for the cost I think 10K is probably a good rough estimate. The range could be anywhere from 3K to 20K or more. Depending on how far the city water and sewer has to be extended and how many additional people are in the zone but a good rough.

I work in ROW and condemnation all the time. Zoning is a good way but if you have existing functioning systems you are likely grandfathered in and they can/will not force you to change. If a system were to fail, you would be forced to pay the tap fees. We deal with this weekly as roads affect septics and we cant just replace the septic since the properies zoning or size restrictions have changed. We must then pay the fees for the home owner. It is rare they just force you to pay and switch.

As for size. I am with Jkust and Melty. Size of family for future is just one condition. That is a indication of future value, you have to consider present value and cost. There are present costs that are not being recognized or offset by present value. jkust tried to mention these. The costs being, Heating, Care, Maintenance, taxes, additional house payment for additional sqft. What is the present value that you are getting for those present costs, EGO because of size of home or maybe the present value knowledge that you could have a large family in the future. Those are inconsiquential to me. But to others those could be large. As for buying a smaller home and moving later... Yes I do think that is smart. Buy to your level of need (key word) and then if your need (key word) changes move. With just starting out you are right now buying at the lowest time. Economists are saying it will bottom out this year. Realtors say the bottom has already happened. Economists are saying that it will be 7 - 10 years for home values to return. Realtors are saying 15 -20. .

I would not believe a realtor.

So the two competing messages were that prices are too variable nation wide to give proper advice. And keep looking and expand your options by looking at building and other areas but use 200K and buy a move in ready home.

I think both are correct. Prices are too variable too give completely proper advice and I don't think any of us have said don't go talk to a realtor. But when talking to the realtor look at other neighbor hoods. Bring up building. Extend your drive by 5 miles and your house size could go up with your cost dropping.

I think that this is the thing that everyone is missing is that the variability in pricing is what plays into TollKeepers advantage and that by changing a few search criteria he may open up possibilities not thought about before.

Well Put. Changing the criteria may help. That why I said to go out there and do some legwork since it is such a huge investment. But without any of us knowing that direct market...He may already be on the deal of deals even with the large size

 

[Jkust]

For me I guess I don't get the point of a really big home. I think people believe they need very big homes.

Big homes aren't practical that is for sure. At least until kids are teen's they will be in whatever room you are in no matter the size house. That said having had a smallish 1200 sq ft city home complete with an alley as my entry level home and my current home, I prefer the larger current home. I couldn't justify it mathematically even if I tried.

 

[walterc4553]

I work in ROW and condemnation all the time. Zoning is a good way but if you have existing functioning systems you are likely grandfathered in and they can/will not force you to change. If a system were to fail, you would be forced to pay the tap fees. We deal with this weekly as roads affect septics and we cant just replace the septic since the properies zoning or size restrictions have changed. We must then pay the fees for the home owner. It is rare they just force you to pay and switch.

So I guess I will explain more deeply. The city can't technically "force" you. But they put out incentives enough for you to decide to do it. You are correct if a system like well or septic field were to fail that is the most common way. But it still forces it. Eventually all wells and septic fields will go bad. Then when you need to repair you have to get a permit. No permit no repair and you have to connect to city well and city water.

Many cities create the incentive is that they will help pay or even cover a large majority of the cost for putting in city water and city well when the original work is occuring. After that if you decide to wait and do it later the incentives are gone and the cost could be much higher depending on: lot size, distance from existing connections, work involved to connect, etc.

So it is a question of do I do it now or later in some cities as permits will not be approved.

With the home in question. If the well and septic is original it probably is at the end of life and like I have said many times. TollKeeper should go look at the city governances and zoning to see if he is still Well or if he would have to pay to connect to city.

So what it gets down to is technically it depends on the local goverment and how they host things. In Iowa I would have agreed that no-one is forced off septics and onto well until required. Example again. A friend in my hometown of Newton his dad was on septic. The city expanded and he didn't want to change, they didn't make him but said when his well failed he would have to pay the cost to convert to city water. His well failed a few years later and he was able to get another permit to drill another well. To this day he is the only person in his area on well.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

I agree. It also works the other way. New builders in an area I work sell their permits for 3-4 times what it costs and more than a well. So now there is a couple subdivision's you would never think would be on well and septic, but the city was overextended and not issuing many permits for connection to city services. Thus the builders who got them would sell them for profit since it was easy to connect than to deal with well and septic companies. The city was in essence forcing the builder to put in septic and well. I know for a fact that being on septic and well versus city services did not affect the selling prices of homes in these subdivisions. Thought for sure it would since they were higher end homes, but as they sold the prices were consistent. Now that that area has expanded and upgraded services and will easily issue permits, it will be a true source of data to see if 20-30-40-50 years down the line the homes are affected by being on private vs public systems.

 

[walterc4553]

it will be a true source of data to see if 20-30-40-50 years down the line the homes are affected by being on private vs public systems.

Actually you can study this ... or at least historically. There are many good cities for long term examples. Before many cities today became there current size and governed by one body... back in the day they were boroughs with different local governing bodies and laws for city ordinances. Many times you would have a neighborhood of houses that was well water right next to a neighborhood that was city water.... this was way back in the day... But it does give you your timeline. just need to corrolate the areas to housing sales.... which is also easy because house tax and sale costs are public records. It would actually be a interesting research project.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

It is interesting and similar or in some cases what i do every day. Currently working to get a consultant to hit all the variables on a study to figure damages for setback to interstates in rural settings. Have to figure zoning, land values, physical attributes, location, line of site, county roads, private roads, neighborhoods, distance to exits...and a plethora of other things. Looking at information over the last 25 years and coming up with something that can make it through the state's gang of lawyers is always fun.

 

[TollKeeper]

if I change any of my criteria, I don't get what I need. other houses in the area, that are smaller, are selling for 190 or higher, with only a 2 car garage, and less square footage.

including the purchase price, plus 50,000 in upgrades, I would be at whst this house is worth currently.

what you all are failing to realize is my plans for 3552 square foot, plus 2 out buildings, plus 3 car garage..

3 car garage, as mentioned before, I have many cars. rear out building I, I have 2 snowmobiles & 2 ATV'S & a trailer. Front outbuilding, is for parts, tools, whatever. Basement has a semi-finished theater, and I was going to finish it, and use my Nexflix account to its fullest, and have a pool table, and maybe a pinball machine. The 2 storage rooms in the basement, one for a pantry, the other would be a dry room for computer parts, and my wifes crafts. 1 bedroom in the basement would be a spare bedroom.

So for this entire 3552 square foot house, I dont have a need cuurently for 3 rooms. A bathroom, that needs finishing anyways, 1 basement bedroom thats attached to unfinished bathroom, and the living room. And the living room is only currently because I dont have furniture for it. Never had a den before..

Some of you assumed I was buying over my head... When in reality, I was buying just slightly over my needs, with a bit of room to grow. My upstairs computer room would be moved to the basement when our first is born. So I would be exactly breaking even.

I gotta get to work..

 

[Badbart]

I keep hearing you speak about the other vehicles and the plans for outbuildings, and from my view, it would appear lopsided. It seems you have more house than you will ever need, but not as much land as you DO need. I'm blessed to live in a 2800 sq. ft. house, and with three of my children still at home, it's perfect. We live on on a very large property(over 100 acres), so no issues with the size of the outbuildings obviously. You may find that more land and less house is more in line with your needs, what with all your projects. One of my best friends has the same issue. He lives on a half acre lot and he works on his cars, trucks, boats, tractors, etc. and he's always got to shuffle everything around. Just sayin, somethin to think about....

 

[TollKeeper]

Also, forget, I am a truck driver, and I will be very regularily bringing my truck home. So I have to find a property that will allow this. Althou Colorado is fairly liberal state, this, I am finding, is hard to acheive. Through HOA or local law. I also dont want HOA, because they are shit for someone that wants to live free.

 

[Filter]

Sooo.... part of your 3552 sq ft is including the basement?

 

[djthumper]

Also, forget, I am a truck driver, and I will be very regularily bringing my truck home. So I have to find a property that will allow this. Althou Colorado is fairly liberal state, this, I am finding, is hard to acheive. Through HOA or local law. I also dont want HOA, because they are shit for someone that wants to live free.

This is part of the reason I haven't bought yet. I live in the neighborhood I grew up in, the house is only around 1200 SF and kind of small. I actually have a decent size yard. I would love to find a .5 acre lot with slightly larger house and no HOA.

 

[TollKeeper]

Sooo.... part of your 3552 sq ft is including the basement?

Correct. Its only 1775ish per floor. And since most of life will only happen on the first floor.. Thats why I have been kinda confused about people saying that I am heating 3552 feet. No, I will be heating 1775 feet, as the vents in the basement will all be closed.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Correct. Its only 1775ish per floor. And since most of life will only happen on the first floor.. Thats why I have been kinda confused about people saying that I am heating 3552 feet. No, I will be heating 1775 feet, as the vents in the basement will all be closed.

The house is "1775ish" square feet then. ANSI standards tell you anything with even 1 side below grade is not square footage. It is illegal to claim it as otherwise. You are looking at a 1700ish square foot home with a full basement. Whole different scenario. If it is listed as 3552 you are getting screwed. USPAP does not allow an appraiser to show below grade as living space. If it is listed as such, please PM me so I can submit the listing to the proper authorities.

 

[TollKeeper]

Jkust, going back and reading thru some of the posts, you asked a question that I missed. Pictures may be hard to come by, but I will do my best..

You asked for me to post pics of other houses. Across the street, a house went on short sale, and sold, for 195k. I will give you that this house is updated quite a bit. But this house is currently appraised at 238k. The house did still need water repair to the basement, has a 2 car garage, and the landscaping is in horrid shape. It also has slightly less square footage, about 300 ft.

9888 E 159TH Pl, Brighton, CO 80602 | MLS# 966105

This home sold recently, about 2 blocks away, for 263k, half the square footage, 4 car garage, and it needed mild to moderate updating.

15780 Elmira Street, Brighton CO - Trulia

This is a townhouse, for 220k, about 1/2 mile away.. It is brand new..

http://www.homesincolorado.com/p/16/1045879

There are others in the area, within 1/2 mile. They START at 300k and go up dramaticly from there. This is a growing and expanding area.

I am still looking at other houses. But finding a house, in a comunity that allows Semi-trucks to park in them, in a price range that I can afford, and, is less than 40 miles from my work...

Castle Rock, CO has a couple houses, all have HOA, and Covenants. Wheat Ridge, CO, has a few houses, city laws dont allow what I need. Arvada has a few houses, but they are 20-45k more than I can afford, and I am unsure of city laws in regards to a semi-truck. Aurora, CO has been taken over by Illegal imigrants, the murder and crime rate are sky high. Centennial, CO has a single house that meets my requirements, I am still checking with city laws, unsure of HOA. Golden, CO only has a few houses, but they are more into the mountains than I want to try to safely navigate as a bobtail unit, in the winter.

Grr.. Time to go back to work again..

 

[TollKeeper]

The house is "1775ish" square feet then. ANSI standards tell you anything with even 1 side below grade is not square footage. It is illegal to claim it as otherwise. You are looking at a 1700ish square foot home with a full basement. Whole different scenario. If it is listed as 3552 you are getting screwed. USPAP does not allow an appraiser to show below grade as living space. If it is listed as such, please PM me so I can submit the listing to the proper authorities.

The ish was me being to lazy to get out a calulator.. Its a total Square Footage of 3552. Thats 1776 per floor. The are listing it as 1776 finished square footage. Althou the basement in Semi-Finished, its not listed as finished, or otherwise since there isnt a, uhm, the word evades me.. A window/door for a fire escape.

 

[TollKeeper]

Kinda revisiting a very old topic here.. We passed on the house in this thread. Their was a price line that I couldnt pass, which includes repairs. We were off by about 10k dollars more than the bank owner wanted to go.

So we moved on a bit..

We are currently looking at another house in the Brighton area, 2884 sqaure foot, cul-de-sac property with no neighbors behind (only one on each side), 2 car garage, 6 bedroom, 3 bathroom.

By the time its all said and done, buying the house, and getting the apliances replaced (short sale), repairing some things, we will be about 5k under budget. New Furnace, New Central Air unit, New hot water heater.

What it needs.. Fridge, stove, hood, dishwasher, minor roof repair (a couple shingles are missing, no sub surface damage). 2 bathrooms also need new tile laid, and shower doors. Also calling a sewer guy out to run a 4inch blade thru it to trim out some roots.

Buying it for 155, replacement apraisel is 292, apraisel is 237.

Thats assuming everything else goes foward from here. Waiting on the bank to do their in house estimate, and, their underwriters. The selling bank has already accepted my offer (1 of 17 that the bank received that day. It had just came on the market 3 days prior, and was a holiday weekend). Insurance company has already done their inspection, and are happy with the house.

Wife is mostly happy with the house. For me, she wanted to be more into the mountains. I choose to be in the city for her, with my job, I need her to be in a place where she can have a social life outside of me. This will supply that amply.

Now to just finishing prepping the house I am currently in, to sell.

Heres a pic if the one I am buying... No green in the pic because the pic was taken in January..

Looks like we take ownership in 2-3 weeks.

 

[Busterbrown]

Looks like we take ownership in 2-3 weeks.

We close on our new home around the same time. Would love to move back to the Denver area as I love the mountains. But our intentions including paying off this new Michigan home in 4 years and re-evaluating the housing market at that time. Prices are definitely on an upswing as inventories are the lowest they have been in years. How is the housing market now in the Denver suburbs? Are people selling? Or are they sitting on their hands waiting for market values to move north?

BTW, from your earlier post, "egress" is what I think you were referring to. Egress compliance is mandatory for basements that include sleeping rooms.

 

[TollKeeper]

Denver market was the last to bottom out. So it will probably be the last to see the upswing. Althou my realtor says that his schedule went from having just me, to not having enough time for me. So it looks like their upswing started way early. The buying market is coming to an end. November/December was the time to buy. They are still ok now, but negotiating room is gone now.

 

[Hatchet]

Thats why i got mine going last year and closed and moved in in June/July.

Congrats!! Mite need to swing by on a vacation weekend and check it out Sounds like you got enough bedrooms for me to crash.

 

[TB360]

Personally, I would not buy a house now, unless it was an out and out steal! I say the market is not finished falling, at least not here. When I say an out and out steal, I mean cheap! A 3bdrm, 2 bth, 2800 sq ft on 12 acres here went for $88,000.00 last year. If you hold out you can pick up a deal. At the very least, if you must have this house, I would be leary of such a large down payment, in the event things go farther south with the economy. I'd be afraid of losing my equity, but you know your financial situation better than I do.

Well, not all 3bdrm/2bath homes are worth 88K. It's all about Real Estate 101, location, location, location.