Ac condenser replacement

[jsheahawk]

Any PAG oil considerations? 150, correct? Just 2 oz. to re-lube the condenser, but none in the accumulator. Correct?

 

[jsheahawk]

I replaced the condenser, accumulator, and orifice tube yesterday. It went well and only took me three or so hours.

A few things:

1) You have to take the top plastic brackets off of the condenser to remove it and install it. If they're on you can't get it between the rails that are on either side of it.
2) I didn't know where in the hell the orifice tube was. I've attached a picture for anyone looking for it. It yanks right out with a pair of needle nose pliers. In the photo, I'm looking from the front of the truck. That's the passenger side fender that it's mounted to. The coolant tank and wiper fluid tanks have to be displaced. It's just a few bolts.
3) Some videos said you can just add the oil/dye to the yellow supply line before you add 134 and it will suck in that way. That didn't work in my experience. I ended up having to re-evacuate the system after opening it back up to add it. Just add it to the condenser and accumulator before you start. Also, it's a mess to try and get it into the supply hose. My hands now glow under UV.

Thanks for all of the help, guys!

 

[dkvasnicka]

Had my A/C checked today, hole in the condenser somewhere
Is there anything specific I need to know when replacing it on a 06 9-7X? Do we have some steps (& pics?) writeup somewhere? Haven't found it.
I hope the cooling system doesn't have to be touched and that I only need to take off the lights and the front bumper & grill...

 

[jsheahawk]

Had my A/C checked today, hole in the condenser somewhere
Is there anything specific I need to know when replacing it on a 06 9-7X? Do we have some steps (& pics?) writeup somewhere? Haven't found it.
I hope the cooling system doesn't have to be touched and that I only need to take off the lights and the front bumper & grill...

Yep. Just take off the grill, the head lights, and the black plastic cover behind the grill. Make sure you take the top two plastic mounts off of the condenser so you can wiggle it out between the two vertical rails. That took me about thirty minutes to figure out. The condenser is attached to the radiator with a couple bolts. Then there is the inlet and outlet on the left and right sides of the condenser. There are no bolts on the bottom. It just sits in the mounts at the bottom.

If your cooling system has been opened to the atmosphere for more than a couple hours, you need to replace the accumulator and the orifice tube as well as the condenser. They're not very expensive. You then need to immediately evacuate the system with a vacuum pump to remove all the water vapor and contaminants.

 

[dkvasnicka]

Thanks for the info!
By accumulator you mean the thing that sits in the upper left corner of the engine bay that Rockauto calls "A/C Receiver Drier / Accumulator"?

Any seals or gaskets or rings I need to buy separately?

 

[jsheahawk]

Thanks for the info!
By accumulator you mean the thing that sits in the upper left corner of the engine bay that Rockauto calls "A/C Receiver Drier / Accumulator"?

Any seals or gaskets or rings I need to buy separately?

Yep. That's it. Make sure the picture matches the one in your truck.

Buy the o-ring set, too. It's a few bucks. Soak them in PAG oil before you install them.

 

[dkvasnicka]

Will the DENSO 4770858 condenser work properly on a 9-7X (RockAuto sells it for it)? RockAuto has a ACDelco one but it says it's for "Dual Zone Climate Control with Manual Controls (blue/red dials only)" ...which the 9-7X never had AFAIK. What kind of BS is that?

As for the accumulator and the orifice tube I'm planning to go with Four Seasons (parts 83222 & 38887). I'm limited to what I can find on eBay because going through RockAuto means even higher shipping costs plus the necessity to handle import taxes on my own... no thanks.

 

[jsheahawk]

Will the DENSO 4770858 condenser work properly on a 9-7X (RockAuto sells it for it)? RockAuto has a ACDelco one but it says it's for "Dual Zone Climate Control with Manual Controls (blue/red dials only)" ...which the 9-7X never had AFAIK. What kind of BS is that?

As for the accumulator and the orifice tube I'm planning to go with Four Seasons (parts 83222 & 38887). I'm limited to what I can find on eBay because going through RockAuto means even higher shipping costs plus the necessity to handle import taxes on my own... no thanks.

I don't know about the Saab, but my TB has red/blue sliders, and the OEM one worked. There was some talk of non-OEM units having fewer coils and being less efficient.

Accumulator: Make sure the ports on yours match the picture. There are a few different ones.

 

[Mooseman]

Saabs only had the digital HVAC, no manual. I looked up condensers for different years and models and all are listed for base model. I would have thought that the LWB would have more capacity but can't find one listed. I think this base model only is BS because the systems are basically the same. It's how the temperature inside the truck is regulated that is different.

 

[dkvasnicka]

Do I need any special tools for undoing/re-assebmbling any of the join points I'm going to touch to make sure the system is sealed properly?

 

[Trkdrvremt]

Do I need any special tools for undoing/re-assebmbling any of the join points I'm going to touch to make sure the system is sealed properly?

Not that I remember... All sockets and wrenches....

 

[mrrsm]

Daniel...

Here is a link that might be helpful:

http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/how-to-repair-your-air-conditioning.14558/

And for the sake of $25-$40 & Change... These inexpensive Halogen Leak Detection Devices will help you isolate even the smallest leaks such as can occur around the Aluminum Dual Pipe Low Side Manifold that attaches to the Compressor...As well as the Low and High Side Line Connections and the Schrader Valve inside the Low Side Service Port...and obviates the need to mess around with UV Dye and a UV Light, Automotive Schrader Valves are inexpensive and should be replaced in the vehicle "Line Set" to save yourself an enormous headache down the road with repeated, inexplicable Refrigerant loss:

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:refrigerant leak detector

Here is a Basic Overview of one of the Inexpensive HVAC Leak Detectors...NEVER TEST ANY OF THESE UNITS DIRECTLY INTO A STREAM OF PURE REFRIGERANT OR THE SENSING TUBE MECHANISM WILL INSTANTLY FAIL AND BURN OUT!

 

[Mooseman]

That's how I found out my evaporator was leaking. Cheap but great little tool.

 

[dkvasnicka]

So, got the Haynes manual today (2002 - 2009 TB, Envoy, Rainier, Bravada).

- it says I need to remove the radiator???
- Haynes says one ounce of PAG oil in the new condenser, @jsheahawk you put in two, right?

 

[Trkdrvremt]

So, got the Haynes manual today (2002 - 2009 TB, Envoy, Rainier, Bravada).

- it says I need to remove the radiator???
- Haynes says one ounce of PAG oil in the new condenser, @jsheahawk you put in two, right?

I didn't remove the radiator when I did mine.. Iirc I removed the fan and just moved the radiator back a little.

 

[littleblazer]

I'm pretty sure you can carefully wiggle it out.

 

[mrrsm]

If you have a mind to Flush Out the open Evaporator, along with the High Pressure Liquid Line and Low Pressure Vapour Return Lines and Hoses of any Old Refrigerant, Dirt, Moisture and PAG Oil...Using One Tall Can Of AC Flush and some Compressed Air or better yet..Dry Nitrogen...and THIS thing...and the system will be nice and clean when you button up The Works!

Here is a wide selection to choose from:

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/ac-flush-kit?rmvSB=true&rmvSB=true

 

[jsheahawk]

So, got the Haynes manual today (2002 - 2009 TB, Envoy, Rainier, Bravada).

- it says I need to remove the radiator???
- Haynes says one ounce of PAG oil in the new condenser, @jsheahawk you put in two, right?

Nope. Take start by removing the grill, and work your way toward the condenser from there.

I added two because I also replaced the accumulator.

 

[dkvasnicka]

So I was trying to make sure I know where the orifice tube is, based on the photo by @jsheahawk. And it looks like the 9-7X differs here.

I took pics of the area where it is supposed to be:

Looks different, right? And then I noticed a thing right next to the condenser, right "in the way" of the pre-filter air intake duct:

Isn't this the place where the orifice tube is on this beast?

 

[mrrsm]

I can't tell where you are in your vehicle from looking at your images... But in many cases... GM Likes to place the Orifice Tube set up very close to the Condensing Unit "where it will do the most good.." (said with tongue in cheek) I think that if you can't find it along the upper inner passenger side wheel well panel then (remembering what @jsheahawk stressed above) it might accessible near your front grill. Although this video is covering a GM Pick Up truck... the basic design of GM's Refrigerant Systems have very little actual component variation... AND SO WILL VOLVO'S... with the exception of how they route the "Freon Plumbing".

If nothing else...from 13 Minutes on into this attached video...(WAIT FOR IT AT 14:20...) and you will get to see a PERFECT Bird's Eye view of how the Orifice Piping is set up and how to R&R the damned thing and see how the downstream area in its piping has either got a Stamped Ring or some Dimples Stamped into the HVAC Liquid Line so as to prevent the Fixed Orifice Tube from being shoved inside the tube too far... THAT particular feature may be your best clue in locating where in the HVAC liquid line they placed this in-dwelling HVAC Filter:

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gm+orifice+tube+installation&ia=videos&iai=1oSNem5YQJQ

 

[dkvasnicka]

I saw this video earlier and those were exactly my thoughts -- orifice tubes usually are relatively close to the condenser, so why is it so far on our trucks? I believe they moved it in the later years. After all @jsheahawk has a 2002 TB and that's a 4 years difference...
Still, I'm hoping for someone who's done it on a later model to confirm that for me.

btw, thumbs up for using DuckDuckGo

 

[mrrsm]

LOL... I think we might have some confusion on "Titles" of the HVAC Parts and their locations in the vehicle... The Evaporator or EXPANSION unit is inside the vehicle where the Refrigerant makes a "Change of State" in matter...flashing from a Hot Liquid through either a Fixed Orifice Tube or a TXV (Thermostatic Expansion Valve) and instantaneously changing into a Vapour...absorbing heat energy from within the Cabin to make this possible. Regardless of which type of expansion device is used...they are ALWAYS nested inside or adjacent to the High Pressure Liquid Line leaving the Condenser Unit.

Meanwhile... the Condenser unit is located outside of the vehicle where it is expected to CONTRACT the Heat Laden vapour back into a Liquid...dissipating the heat collected earlier via the Radiator Fan and airflow through the adjacent hot radiator and dispersing the heat that was inside the cabin...back outside into into the atmosphere... Literally acting as a Heat Pump.

With Home and Business HVAC Units...logic dictates that you should havethe TXV or Fixed Orifice-Slash-Filter-Tube as close to the Evaporator unit as possible because from a physics standpoint, it just makes perfect sense... so when you find an Orifice Tube mount adjacent the Compressor... it makes you scratch your Noggin' and ask "WTF...?" ... because unless you know to LOOK there...or accidentally stumble across it... you'd never find the damned thing! Did you notice how Black and Filthy the Orifice Tube was that he removed? Yeah... THAT is how MOST of them look ...even after a Compressor change-out because sometimes... they hide in plain sight and get completely overlooked during Full HVAC Repairs. Go Figure...

As for DuckDuckGo vs. Google... Here is my honest impression:

Mr. Google is walking along on the beach at the edge of the shoreline... leaving prominent deep footprints in the sand. Meanwhile, walking very close to him, is Mr. DuckDuckGo... However... He is just a few yards away... wading in the nearby surf....and unbeknownst to BOTH men... Just about 200 yards behind them... is a Hungry Bengal Tiger. And so it makes one wonder..... Which one of these two men will wind up on the Tiger's Menu? Yeah... That's what I thought, too... and so the Ancient Sanskrit Proverb has great relevance here:

"The Mudd Elephant... Wading through the Sea... Leaves NO TRACKS...!"

 

[mrrsm]

Daniel...

This link is a tiny sidebar HJ ...not related to the post ...but I thought you would want to have it for other lubrication maintenance issues later:

http://www.amsoil.com/MyGarage/VehicleLookupPrint.aspx?url2=2005+SAAB+9-7X+S

 

[dkvasnicka]

Daniel...

This link is a tiny sidebar HJ ...not related to the post ...but I thought you would want to have it for other lubrication maintenance issues later:

http://www.amsoil.com/MyGarage/VehicleLookupPrint.aspx?url2=2005+SAAB+9-7X+S

Thanks. Fortunately I have no need to have Amsoil shipped over the pond as there are plenty of first-class lubricants available here in Europe. Except for Auto-Trak, of course. That I don't try to substitute.

 

[dkvasnicka]

OK, so I ordered the wrong condenser (both ports on one side) aaaaand it also came damaged. Win win!


Of course I need to take my family on a 120 mile roadtrip and of course the weekend will bring unusually high tropical temps to central Europe... Epic!

Oh well, night time drive it is then!

 

[dkvasnicka]

Would a 02 TB condenser fit into my 06 9-7X? Anyone any idea? Rockauto says 02-09, so...
Of course it would be a used one and being an older unit it might not be as effective but that's not a concern for me.

 

[Mooseman]

If it's for the same engine, it should fit. But, being used, you don't know what in there as far as contamination is concerned and these types can't be flushed. Unless they can guarantee it was removed from a sealed working unit, I would be careful or pass on it.

 

[jsheahawk]

If it's for the same engine, it should fit. But, being used, you don't know what in there as far as contamination is concerned and these types can't be flushed. Unless they can guarantee it was removed from a sealed working unit, I would be careful or pass on it.

Yeah, unless it's been evacuated and plugged, I'd pass on it.

 

[northmick]

When you buy an a.c. compressure new from a parts house it only comes with a 1 year warranty on its own. What most salesmen don't explain or know even is that to get the life time warranty that most advertise you also need to buy the orfice tube and dryer/accumilator. Just a heads up forevery one. I always prefure a shop does the vaccine and recharge. It's faster most often better and for the cost of them to doing is most often only little more than getting everything to do it yourself plus it's kinda of a complex ordeal if it's your first time.

 

[dkvasnicka]

So I finally got all necessary parts together but now I'm thinking I might postpone the whole job to the next spring... We won't get that many A/C-requiring days here during September.
The question now is whether leaving the circuit as it is (with the hole in the condenser) during the whole winter can irreparably damage and/or pollute it. Can the whole system get so dirty that it won't be enough to just change the orifice tube, condenser and accumulator and vacuum and refill it? Can I prevent it somehow, e.g. by plastidipping the damaged condenser?

Maybe it's an irrelevant question because I've already been driving with the damaged condenser for 3 months anyway...

 

[mrrsm]

Daniel...

If the AC System was open to Atmospheric air and its attendant moisture and non-condensible gases...after sealing or replacing the leaking Condenser Coil, and after replacing the Orifice Filter and Accumulator... it is best to purge the system with moderately pressurized Dry Nitrogen and .. then you must pull a vacuum and evacuate the system down to around 25 Microns long enough to evaporate any moisture hidden deep inside the lines and major components and observe a Micron Gauge for around 30 minutes or so after turning off the vacuum pump to observe that the entire system is capable of holding a vacuum on the Auto AC Low Side Manifold Gauge Set.

If not... then the process of pulling down a vacuum will only ingest more damp air into the system that later on will freeze inside the lines on the Evaporator side of the system and defeat everything. For $10.00 on Amazon... you can obtain and apply some small amounts RED NYLOG Elasto-meric sealant to all of your fittings and Schrader valves that will guarantee perfect seals and eliminate any refrigerant leaks.... Cheap Insurance against later, inexplicable difficulties with tiny leaks that can be intractable to solve.

 

[jsheahawk]

So I finally got all necessary parts together but now I'm thinking I might postpone the whole job to the next spring... We won't get that many A/C-requiring days here during September.
The question now is whether leaving the circuit as it is (with the hole in the condenser) during the whole winter can irreparably damage and/or pollute it. Can the whole system get so dirty that it won't be enough to just change the orifice tube, condenser and accumulator and vacuum and refill it? Can I prevent it somehow, e.g. by plastidipping the damaged condenser?

Maybe it's an irrelevant question because I've already been driving with the damaged condenser for 3 months anyway...

Things won't get any worse if you leave it how it is.

 

[northmick]

Don't forget that your window defrost work off your ac system also.

 

[dkvasnicka]

Well, defogging the window from the inside depends on the ability of the A/C to dehumify air.
Defrost, as in heating the windshield to rid it of ice, does not depend on the A/C circuit. I never ran A/C in winter months, even when it was working.

 

[Mooseman]

You may have been using A/C in winter without your knowledge. Whenever you use defrost and the temperature is above freezing, A/C is automatically turned on to dehumidify the air. I think it's a waste and unnecessary wear and tear as there are very few occasions where this is necessary. Wish we could have the ability to choose to turn it on/off in defrost. I usually pull my A/C relay out in winter months although it's a good idea to run it a little at least once in the dead of winter, the temperature permits, to circulate the oil a little.

 

[dkvasnicka]

Finally got around to this project! It's a success story but with a lot of cursing... I desperately wanted to be able to take out the condenser without touching the coolant circuit and taking out the shroud & fan but it just doesn't work. Not even just unbolting the fan and tilting the radiator a bit helped... all stuff, except for the radiator, had to go out, then I was able to tilt the radiator enough (dreading for its life and the life of the ATF lines) to slide the condenser out. The main culprit is circled in red on the attached photo.

Put in a new accumulator, all new washers (with PAG-150 treatment) and took it for a vacuum test and refill. Worked! ...a day before a 300 mi family roadtrip with a pregnant wife This was last week and the system still holds it's shit together.

 

[jsheahawk]

I desperately wanted to be able to take out the condenser without touching the coolant circuit and taking out the shroud & fan but it just doesn't work. Not even just unbolting the fan and tilting the radiator a bit helped...
View attachment 81368

Did you try taking the plastic tabs off the top of the old condenser? I was able to get mine out by taking them off and rotating it and holding my tongue right.

Good job! I'm sure the wife appreciates it.

 

[Tiggerr]

Out of curiosity why were you so squeamish about the radiator coming out? 2 hoses 2 lines and presto out it comes lol... after the fan and shroud obviously...shit the fan is the PITA part

 

[dkvasnicka]

Did you try taking the plastic tabs off the top of the old condenser? I was able too get mine out by taking them off and rotating it and holding my tongue right.

Nope, because I don't think it would have made any difference. The piping on the sides of the condenser was what I think caused it to be such a PITA. Note that the condensers differ across GMT360 models and MYs. Maybe you have a less space-intensive type in yours...?

Out of curiosity why were you so squeamish about the radiator coming out? 2 hoses 2 lines and presto out it comes lol... after the fan and shroud obviously...shit the fan is the PITA part

I didn't want to loose too much coolant (didn't have enough at home to fill up) and also didn't want to damage the radiator. I'm in Central Europe and getting most parts for a GMT360 here is a question of several weeks, if not more (or astronomical money... or both ). Damaging a radiator = undrivable vehicle and that would be a death sentence for me, especially before a family road trip.

 

[Tiggerr]

I didn't want to loose too much coolant (didn't have enough at home to fill up) and also didn't want to damage the radiator. I'm in Central Europe and getting most parts for a GMT360 here is a question of several weeks, if not more (or astronomical money... or both ). Damaging a radiator = undrivable vehicle and that would be a death sentence for me, especially before a family road trip.

OIC gotcha... for future reference....using a 2 gal bucket under the lower hose at the radiator usually works good for me to catch coolant..and reuse... if the situation ever pops up again...