4.2L LL8 Flywheel - 4L60E CONFUNCTION???

[808]

Y'all.

I'm at an "oh no" moment on this build.... The Engine I've *Lollipopped* with sweetness does NOT have the same flywheel assembly as Mr Richard "PRIOR". I've got this frickin' engine in front of the fresh 4L60E setup hanging in the air right now..... Does anyone know off the top of their heads what in the bleedin' bloody dickens this specific pressed in reducer ring is relative to? I've got 0 frame of reference for what transmission they were potentially running this block with, as I never did actually see the old vehicle, although I've got that VIN#.
I know I have to swap these wheels, but I haven't seen this specific adapter before, and there's not gonna be any matey-matey with this business currently *out of order* as it stands.

Does this ring anyone's memory bell?

 

[808]

In continued Elaboration, this is the GM P/N 12621694 Flex Plate ASSLY installed at this previous engine configuration (with whatever the heck this adapter was adapting to), and this reducer is pressed into the 41mm I.D. Of the Crankshaft -> Torque Converter snout relationship void which *IS* going to work with my GM P/N 17804017 Torque Converter replacement carbon copy update @ the existing 4L60E that's currently in place.

It looks like I'm going to have to tig weld a nut to the face of this adapter and screw jack this interference fit out with some persuasion TLC.

I Don't wanna do that.

I don't know what else wants to fit in a 13/16" I.D. void that's gonna pull this joker.

I've never seen this before, and I've never been in this situation before.

 

[TollKeeper]

Thats the pilot bearing I think, or the automatic transmission variant of it... Lots of different removal tools on the market for it.

It is a needed part, as it centers the torque converter so all the pressure is not on the smaller outside bolts. So you will need to find the correct pilot bearing for your application.

 

[808]

Thats the pilot bearing I think, or the automatic transmission variant of it... Lots of different removal tools on the market for it.

It is a needed part, as it centers the torque converter so all the pressure is not on the smaller outside bolts. So you will need to find the correct pilot bearing for your application.

Thank You Sir!! Yes, at the moment this pilot bearing is "in the way" of the torque converter nosing in to fit, I do cherish and appreciate your prescription for the exacting of the pilot bearing puller. -Looking At Those Presently- I'm not certain what form factor transmission supports or requires this pilot bearing?? It's not this configuration of this 4L60E tagged "8SWD".

 

[TollKeeper]

Can you take a picture of the whole flywheel?? Something not right, and hoping that can clear it up..

 

[TollKeeper]

I think the piece you are looking for is called a toque converter thrust spacer, or maybe a pilot sleeve, or crankshaft adapter?

 

[808]

Can you take a picture of the whole flywheel?? Something not right, and hoping that can clear it up..

You got it. These flywheels are different. One is a flex-plate assembly, the other(original) is just pure flywheel ring gear.

 

[808]

Original - First - On Stand

 

[808]

"New To The Vehicle" - On Crane

 

[TollKeeper]

I think if you measured the spacer from the 2 points marked, you will find it has the space needed. So you just need to get the pilot bearing puller, pull that section out, and I --think-- you should be good.

 

[808]

I think if you measured the spacer from the 2 points marked, you will find it has the space needed. So you just need to get the pilot bearing puller, pull that section out, and I --think-- you should be good.

View attachment 108696

Good Doctor Good Sir, *THANK YOU* very much for your specific encouragement along this course, I do concur completely, and that is the course of action I'm currently in the midst of taking. I just got all my measurements and I might be driving half way across the state to go pick one up in the very near future, but appropriation is the target of this evening.

It's interesting that I couldn't find a photo of another 4.2L with a pilot bearing today???

 

[TollKeeper]

Before you head down that road.. Measure the bolt locations on the flexplate/flywheel. They appear to be in different locations..?

 

[808]

@TollKeeper again, thank you VERY VERY much for your encouragement and great observational awareness due diligence reminder *stitch in timing* vigilance, I just did a second ago, and they're both typical to 3&3/8" c to c spacing, at an 8 hole bolt pattern, with the exact same 41mm void to that "thrust spacer/pilot sleeve/crank adapter" I.D. conflict zone/ perfect H7 interference fit to the torque converter snout.

I appreciate all your words to the wise brother!!!

 

[TollKeeper]

It's interesting that I couldn't find a photo of another 4.2L with a pilot bearing today???

You mean this? (Its a GM Atlas 3.6, same engine, shorted 1 cylinder)

https://imgur.com/0AnOLK1

 

[TollKeeper]

@TollKeeper again, thank you VERY VERY much for your encouragement and great observational awareness due diligence reminder *stitch in timing* vigilance, I just did a second ago, and they're both typical to 3&3/8" c to c spacing, at an 8 hole bolt pattern, with the exact same 41mm void to that "thrust spacer/pilot sleeve/crank adapter" I.D. conflict zone/ perfect H7 interference fit to the torque converter snout.

I appreciate all your words to the wise brother!!!

I hope we are talking the same thing... I was talking about the Torque Converter mounting holes. They appear to be further apart on the engine stand engine..

 

[808]

I hope we are talking the same thing... I was talking about the Torque Converter mounting holes. They appear to be further apart on the engine stand engine..

Bubba you're a sniper. Both rear crank mount flanges feature 1&1/4" typical spacing to the hole pattern centers on the flywheel ports. *That* aspect is at least as uniform as can be. It's the "adapter" issue that's present on this "fresh" fella. Is that atlas 3.6 from VW make? SEMPER FI

 

[TollKeeper]

Likely from a Chevy Colorado, GMC Canyon, or Hummer H3.

 

[Mooseman]

Your truck is a 2008? I looked up your flexplate #12621694 and it says it's only for 2008-09 and those years were bastard children when the crank went to a 58x crank trigger. Did you change the torque converter? Those too are 2008-09 specific.

All I know is that I don't remember any spacer when I did the engine swap on my 02. The torque converter snout just fits into the hole in the crank centering the torque converter. The bolt holes in the flexplate should align perfectly with the torque converter.

 

[TollKeeper]

With one engine hanging, and another on a engine stand... Are you swapping engines?

If you are, I hope you got the right engine for your truck. 2008-2009 are also specific engines to the years. The other years swap interchangeably, almost... But not 2008-2009

 

[808]

With one engine hanging, and another on a engine stand... Are you swapping engines?

If you are, I hope you got the right engine for your truck. 2008-2009 are also specific engines to the years. The other years swap interchangeably, almost... But not 2008-2009

Yeah buddy, & @Mooseman lol @ "Bastard Children" lolololol - Yes Yes Yes all yes to the '08 to '08 swap, I've seen the issue Pine Hollow ran into with the CKP, and I've double checked the engine VIN # to the Vehicle VIN# @ time of purchase, everything is like for like, just pulled both rings & the pilot bearing and checked their 13.5" tooth-cog relationships and their setbacks from the face & the crank snouts and hole patterns, etc. At this point I do believe that this specific pilot bearing was relative to *MANUAL* transmission mate???? Because everything is 100%, and the only logic that I've got at the moment is that setup vs. an Automatic. I haven't done the picture dive on google for the manual presentation yet, but *ALL SAILS ARE FULL WITH TAILWIND ATM*.

 

[808]

It was a tearful moment when this joker slid out into full expression. I did drive halfway across the state last night to pick up OTC & OEM pilot bearing slide hammer attachments because I knew their teeth were viable/formidable form factors.

 

[808]

These were the considerations over the schmoopdee woo glass slipper loaner K-Yoke-Pilot Puller from Powerbuilt - not all bad brand stuff, but those powerbuilt puller legs were a no-bueno recipe for "that's not gonna work either" from the get-go when I took a gander at the local auto partication station. Took the morning to file those OEM leg jaws into "presentable" condition, as their castings were also a tad schlopptastical. - You can see where the Powerbuilt pullers "slipped" on that poor slug last evening around 10, where I found out by the GRACE OF THE GOD OF MECHANICAL APTITUDE that the contingent OEM/OTC's were *always* - The Only Way -.

 

[Mooseman]

So the question remains, why was there a manual tranny pilot bushing when no manual tranny was ever available on this platform? A swap by the PO? Where did it come from?

 

[808]

So the question remains, why was there a manual tranny pilot bushing when no manual tranny was ever available on this platform? A swap by the PO? Where did it come from?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 100%!!! Dude!!!!!!! :v

 

[JayArr]

TRICK for removing a pilot bearing...

Find a socket that fits in the pilot bearing hole.

Put an extension into the socket

Fill the end of the crankshaft and the end of the socket with grease, whatever you have lying around.

Insert the socket into the hole in the middle of the pilot bearing and push in until it hits the grease.

Tap/hit with a hammer.

The force on the grease has nowhere to go because the hole on the end of the crankshaft is a blind hole. The only place the force can move something is to push back out on the pilot bearing.

The pilot bearing will pop out as you hammer on the extension.

Clean up all the messy grease but be glad you didn't have to buy a special tool.

 

[808]

TRICK for removing a pilot bearing...

Find a socket that fits in the pilot bearing hole.

Put an extension into the socket

Fill the end of the crankshaft and the end of the socket with grease, whatever you have lying around.

Insert the socket into the hole in the middle of the pilot bearing and push in until it hits the grease.

Tap/hit with a hammer.

The force on the grease has nowhere to go because the hole on the end of the crankshaft is a blind hole. The only place the force can move something is to push back out on the pilot bearing.

The pilot bearing will pop out as you hammer on the extension.

Clean up all the messy grease but be glad you didn't have to buy a special tool.

Thanks For The Excellent Tip!!!!! I will definitely keep that in mind if I'm ever in the situation again without the puller jaws I have now

 

[808]

@Mooseman -> Check this out from "the name of the forum-that-shall-not-be-spoken"

Tranny swap. Torque converters are different.

Ok so I'm swapping my 08 trailblazer transmission and I ordered a remanned unit. The problem I'm having is the torque converters are different. The remanned trannys tc is bigger and sets closer to the edge of the bell housing then the one I pulled. My dad says change the flex plate and it will...

www.trailvoy.com

 

[Mooseman]

I checked torque converter listings on RA and they are the same from 2002-2008. However, looked at 2009 and there is one like the old ones and one from GM with the same skinny pilot and their listing says for 2008-09. So more oddballery for those years. Looks like they changed for those years only. Flexplates are the same all years as far as I can tell from RA.

More Information for GM GENUINE 24241978

I can't see why you couldn't use the old version torque converter after removing that pilot bushing. It looks like they reduced the size of it which may mean it has a higher stall speed, maybe the reason why they used a smaller pilot so they can't be mistaken.

And yes, we can say "Trailvoy"

 

[TollKeeper]

And yes, we can say "Trailvoy"

MY EARS!!! MY EARS!!!

 

[808]

I checked torque converter listings on RA and they are the same from 2002-2008. However, looked at 2009 and there is one like the old ones and one from GM with the same skinny pilot and their listing says for 2008-09. So more oddballery for those years. Looks like they changed for those years only. Flexplates are the same all years as far as I can tell from RA.

More Information for GM GENUINE 24241978

I can't see why you couldn't use the old version torque converter after removing that pilot bushing. It looks like they reduced the size of it which may mean it has a higher stall speed, maybe the reason why they used a smaller pilot so they can't be mistaken.

And yes, we can say "Trailvoy"

@Mooseman I do appreciate your exceptionally helpful effort!!!! Thanks be thee for thine input and attention to the aspect in question

 

[GMtrannyman1620]

Stumbled across this post and know its been handled, But what youre looking at is a bushing for the smaller pilot of the 08-09 converter. Ive seen in some 07's and 09's are unique in the GM wen to inside PRNDL starting that year with a blue case connector. But that was a way to utilize the pre 08 crank and for whatever reason switch to the dumb little converter and flexplate that fail miserably. Reason i stumbled on here is i need that exact bushing for the same reason you needed it out lol, customer trailblazer had a motor put in that is not an 08 and does not have a bushing in the pilot. anyway figured id chime in on the pilot confusion, it was indeed a factory setup for a couple years.

 

[rchalmers3]

Thread resurrection number two!
I too need that bushing, and I'll be darned if I can find it anywhere on the inter-webs.
I'm having a torque converter built for racing. The torque converter specialist said the small (.826") pilot converter can be modified with a higher stall speed.

Anybody have a few laying around? A part number or other identification would be helpful!
Thanks in advance,
Rick

 

[rchalmers3]

For future seekers of this bushing, the GM part number is 12587549. The cost is about $15 and is available on Ebay, Amazon and through the dealer.
Thanks to all who read and contribute to this forum.
Rick