2004 TB I6 3.42 158K miles first camper tow 200+ miles each way

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Rhizzlebop

Member
I questioned that myself and told the guy that I thought 1 was in front but he said no it’s at the back near the firewall.

He def said it was cylinder 1. At this point I was under the belief that it was a fuel injector but now I wonder if it was just a different coil at the front.
 
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Rhizzlebop

Member
I do think the oil could have been in the tube you’re talking about. There’s a little stem off the bottom of that intake like a plastic cylinder that goes down into something and oil was around that.

As for the cylinder 1, he must have checked which because he specifically said that cylinder 1 had misfired 164 times.

I haven’t done anything with it yet since we drove it home like that. I hope it hasn’t damaged the cat. How would we know if the cat is damaged from a fuel rich situation due to a misfire?
 
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Rhizzlebop

Member
I looked up online and confirmed the cylinder 1 is definitely at the front. Based on that it might be another coil pack, and hence I hope its an easy fix, but also, hoping we didn't damage the CAT by driving another 160 miles with it like this. I dunno why I didn't check the cylinder myself. I trusted the guy as he was their certified mechanical and seemed to be sure with no hesitation.
 

DocBrown

Well-Known Member
And just to put your mind at ease, it's extremely unlikely that towing and temperature had anything to do with it. It would have happened regardless.
 
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Rhizzlebop

Member
And just to put your mind at ease, it's extremely unlikely that towing and temperature had anything to do with it. It would have happened regardless.
Yea good to know. My thought now is to avoid this again maybe I should have all coils replaced and if it actually ends up being an injector should I just have all replaced. I’m hoping to get it to my guy this Sunday and he’ll prob keep it 3-4 weeks but he does good work on his time and I’m in no rush for it.
 
I'm having the same problem.......I had some codes so I replaced stock fan clutch, radiator/cap, WP, VVT solenoid, oil pressure switch. AC Del-co parts and Hayden trans cooler 9.5 x 11. Temp stayed between 210 and 230 but mostly near 230 with no AC on at 60-65 mph on 90 degree pulse day. With AC on started to go over 230. CGRVW 10,000 lbs camper is 22 ft super lite 3200 lbs loaded with our stuff. Oh did Amsoil power foam and it runs much better and idles great now!
 

TollKeeper

Well-Known Member
That sounds more of a problem of the Thermostat (being thats the only part left you havent replaced). Either that, or your running way lean on fuel trims, and thats a whole nother ball o wax!

When I pull my sleds/atvs. Trailer, Toys, gear, stuff, etc.. Im pushing right around 3300 lbs. Truck doesnt get any warmer than if I was pulling no trailer. I am a V8, but that should not really effect the scenario here.
 
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That sounds more of a problem of the Thermostat (being thats the only part left you havent replaced). Either that, or your running way lean on fuel trims, and thats a whole nother ball o wax!

When I pull my sleds/atvs. Trailer, Toys, gear, stuff, etc.. Im pushing right around 3300 lbs. Truck doesnt get any warmer than if I was pulling no trailer. I am a V8, but that should not really effect the scenario here.
Yeah I'm thinking TS too......The 4.2 L pulls great.. If it's beyond the TS then my old truck is going to get some more love to pull it than the Envoy... lol

Would anyone change the temp sensor being right beside the TS??
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Would anyone change the temp sensor being right beside the TS??
Yes, it is usually recommended because it's right there as a preventive measure.
 
okay I change the thermostat with AC Delco and change the temp sensor with AC Delco. I'm still overheating with the air on after I drive down the road and park I can sit at idle and it will get up to 230 if I rev the engine several times, and I'm normally about 220 ish just idle. But if I turn the air off it goes back to 210 do I need another fan clutch again?
 

Mooseman

Moderator
What brand fan clutch was it? When did you replace it? You can test the fan clutch:
How to test the electro-viscous fan clutch

At 230f, it should be pulling air quite noticeably. This subject has been coming up quite often this summer for some odd reason (hotter than normal weather?). If the clutch is fairly recent and seems to be working otherwise, you could wire a switch to 12v+ to the white wire at the clutch or the fan relay leg that supplies it. That will effectively give you 100% fan duty. It would however make your truck sound like a jet engine and your MPG will suffer as well as give you a CEL with a fan overspeed code.
 
What brand fan clutch was it? When did you replace it? You can test the fan clutch:
How to test the electro-viscous fan clutch

At 230f, it should be pulling air quite noticeably. This subject has been coming up quite often this summer for some odd reason (hotter than normal weather?). If the clutch is fairly recent and seems to be working otherwise, you could wire a switch to 12v+ to the white wire at the clutch or the fan relay leg that supplies it. That will effectively give you 100% fan duty. It would however make your truck sound like a jet engine and your MPG will suffer as well as give you a CEL with a fan overspeed code.
It's a Hayden, 1,0000miles about a month ago and I got the code 1481 now. I think there's a voltage issue. I ordered a thermo Hayden fan clutch. Mooseman I believe in a previous thread you posted you can do that without having the PCM coded but have to have it read in case other codes are there. Is that true? I'm supposed to leave on a camping trip this week and I will not have time to send the PCM off.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
You will get a CEL and code for the missing EV fan clutch. To get rid of it, you have to get the PCM tuned to turn off the fan codes. You can live with it as-is but you will have to scan it once in a while just to see if other codes pop up because the CEL will always be on.

http://www.lime-swap.com/ is the cheapest option and can also get other improvements done at the same time.

Or you could have just returned it on warranty. First time I've heard of a Hayden failing so early. Or there's a wiring issue.
 
You will get a CEL and code for the missing EV fan clutch. To get rid of it, you have to get the PCM tuned to turn off the fan codes. You can live with it as-is but you will have to scan it once in a while just to see if other codes pop up because the CEL will always be on.

http://www.lime-swap.com/ is the cheapest option and can also get other improvements done at the same time.

Or you could have just returned it on warranty. First time I've heard of a Hayden failing so early. Or there's a wiring issue.
Thanks for your input. I'll post what I find Later.
 
I believe I have a bad wire in the loom. I put on the thermal fan clutch this morning and has been running fine for the last hundred plus miles. The only issue that I'm having is the thermostat gauge is reading about 220 and then it dramatically drops about 160 and it's sporadic.. oh I'm towing a camper. My combine Wt. Is 10,200lbs.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
the thermostat gauge is reading about 220 and then it dramatically drops about 160 and it's sporadic..
Are you only reading your temps from the dash? Or are you confirming with a OBDII reader of some kind? Could be the stepper motor for the gauge going bad, or the temp sensor on the engine could be going bad if you can confirm the numbers are swinging that wildly.
 

TollKeeper

Well-Known Member
Assuming your guage is reading right, thats a HUGE temp change difference, and would be concerning to me.. Are you sure that the cooling system is completely air purged? are you sure the radiator cap is good?

For the members that know the I6 better than me.. I know the Oil Pressure readings are a computer based guesstimate. Are the temp readings actual?
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
The temp gauge isn't entirely accurate. Usually a tick to the left of the 210 mark, is too cool and is a tell tale sign of a stuck open t-stat if you should be at operating temp. That's happened to me twice, and that 1 tick mark usually equated to 185 on the Scangauge.

You could also check with an IR thermometer if you have quick access to one of those.
 
I literally just replace the thermostat before this trip with ACDelco.

I just stopped to fill up and now the gauge is working perfect lol
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
I'm suspecting a stepper motor, on it's way out.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
It's the motor that's soldered to the instrument cluster's circuit board, and moves the needle to where the computer tells it, that it should be. Typically, if you have soldering skills and choose to swap them yourself, we recommend that you do all 6, since you have everything taken apart
 

Mike534x

Well-Known Member
The temp gauge isn't entirely accurate. Usually a tick to the left of the 210 mark, is too cool and is a tell tale sign of a stuck open t-stat if you should be at operating temp. That's happened to me twice, and that 1 tick mark usually equated to 185 on the Scangauge.

You could also check with an IR thermometer if you have quick access to one of those.
The gauge inconsistency on these trucks are so baffling. Mine reads 1 tick to the left of the 210 mark, but the computer reads 195-200 at operating temp. My spare cluster reads 1 tick to the right of the 210 mark as well. I'd rather trust the Torque/scanner over what the dash tells me any day.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Yeah i really don't understand this vehicle sometimes its a love-hate relationship...lol
Here's the videos of attached from on Google Docs of the cluster.

No access to video.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Nope. Asks me to send request .
 

gmcman

Well-Known Member
If that were the actual temp, then you would likely throw a code. How hot is the upper radiator hose, can you even touch it?

What position is the temp gauge at when the key is off?

I agree it could be a stepper motor, the only PITA part of changing one is removing all the dials and getting them back in the correct spot. Also, a small roll of solder wick is your friend when removing them.

I use this:


Tip: When removing the dials, use a credit card under a dinner fork at the leverage point. Before you remove them, rotate the dials gently counterclockwise until they stop, then using some blue painters tape, put a piece under the dial on the cluster itself and take a sharpie and mark where the tip of the dial is.

When reinstalling the dials, only press them on halfway and confirm idle speed and MPH from a short drive with an OBD adapter and an app like Torque.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Monitor the temps using an OBD reader or scanner capable of showing live data. This would show what the PCM is seeing from the sensor. If the stepper motor is truly going bad, the real temp will be stable.
 
It hasn't done it again. the only thing I did is where the connector is for the loom to the temperature gauge. it was facing up and then I turned it horizontal. all of a sudden it just work. I've been driving around all weekend and it's never messed up again...... I'll report back Tuesday on the drive home...
I'm going on Amazon and ordering a scan tool to use that app for future trips.
 
Good evening everyone. Well yesterday we made our trip back. We went from Pigeon Forge in the Tennessee mountains to an hour south of Atlanta. This whole trip I did over 500 Miles. The envoy pulled really good other than when I was having the temperature gauge issues. In town going up really steep grades the temp stayed about 218-225. on the interstate going 60 to 65 miles an hour , with AC on and I stayed around the same Temps. It was about 90-plus degrees outside. I tipped the scales combined weight at 9980 lb. If I was cruising around town and had no grade at 45 miles an hour my temperature went to one dash past 210. When i did the scan tool one tick below 210 was about 198. All-in-all I believe the envoy did well with all the huffing and puffing it had to do in the mountains. I still want to get it tuned and has the error code from the fan clutch from going to a manual.
 

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