04 Envoy Trans will not move in gear

[spcypepper]

Hi All,
I have an 04 Envoy XL 4x4 and I was driving along and rpm's reved up and lost momentum. I coasted to the shoulder and from there I had it towed and I am at a loss. There was no prior issues and trans fluid and filter were changed about a year ago. I have 140k miles and prior to this ran great. Did notice a couple times that while riding along around 40-50 mh sometimes if I gave it gas it would like bogg down or hesitate slightly and then go. It did not do this all the time. I can move the shifter through all gears and the vehicle will move forward or back if you push it while out of park. Thanks

 

[triz]

Does not sound good. Let us know exactly what it was. But it sounds like the tranny is toast.

 

[spcypepper]

Does not sound good. Let us know exactly what it was. But it sounds like the tranny is toast.

Thanks for you're reply. Not what I wanted to hear. Could there be anything else? I know I have read one forum elsewhere and the guy said he replaced trans and had the same problem after install. He did go on to say that the tranny was used but never followed up with what resolved his issue.

 

[dfc739]

What have you done to troubleshoot? You listed nothing.

How does your fluid look and smell? Is it at the proper level (engine warm, idling in park after moving the selector through all the gears)?

Have you taken care of your transfer case? What does the fluid look like? Is it at the proper level?

Were there any strange noises before it stopped?

Have you noticed any fluid leaks? Have you crawled under the vehicle to check things like the shift linkage? Pulled the inspection plug to make sure the torque converter is still attached to the flex plate?

 

[spcypepper]

Checked fluid and it is full, looks and smells good. No leaks. I need to check while warm tomorrow. Transfer case oil changed around 60K. Will check the level tomorrow as well. Will this affect the vehicle not going in gear for 2wd?

There were no noises prior or during the breakdown. No grinding or clunking either. Also not code, engine or check gauge light.

There are no leaks and linkage is connected. I will pull pan tomorrow to get look inside.

I have not pulled the plug. What am I looking for here?
Also the vehicle is not driven hard as this is my wife's and she goes short distances and does not dog it. I am just not convinced it is shot because it went out all of a sudden without prior problems. Thanks

 

[Hypnotoad]

I have not pulled the plug. What am I looking for here?

Metal shavings or chunks of metal.

 

[KNBlazer]

look at your dipstick and check the fluid level cold and take note, then check it hot... there should be a difference....

I recently had my 4L60E rebuilt, stripped sunshell & damaged pump.... I had at 2k RPM & 70mph a 100-300 rpm jump, kind of like a rapid pulse or bounce....also when shifting, transmission would hold at 3k-4k RPM for a second and then shift...

 

[Oleachea]

Remember when you check your fluid to much is as bad as not enough. Did you recently have a fluid flush?? My transmission went out with 138,000 miles on it and it had no warning signs before it went out. The 4L60E is fairly similar to the 700R4 in a lot of ways and it didn't have the best track record. The 4L60E has a weak sun shell which along with the clutches are a very common culprit. At best it's a fluid or throttle position sensor issue but with these transmissions that's usually not the case. If you get it rebuilt make sure to get the extra $100 of upgrades it's worth it and reduces chances of failures in the future.

 

[KNBlazer]

...and if you need a rebuild, call your local shops for worst case estimates, and then call shops 15-20 miles away from you for the same worst case estimate... I saved about $1,000 dollars by taking my truck to a shop that is 11 miles away versus my local shop that is like 3 miles... also ask about their nationwide warranties...

 

[Oleachea]

And ask what upgrades they do from stock if they say the better part of converter, pump, PCS, band, shift kit (To correct common issues) 2-4 servo, separator plate (Always bad) upgraded 3-4 stackup, bushing kit, filter kit, HD sunshell and upgraded sprags their a keeper. If they say you don't need any of the upgrades but charge the same as everyone else that means they just throw a master rebuild kit (which is poorly named) in it and call it good and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[spcypepper]

Thanks all. How would I check if this is related to fluid or throttle sensor?

 

[KNBlazer]

Thanks all. How would I check if this is related to fluid or throttle sensor?

Because your truck revved up high, I'm thinking it's a hard part that has seen its end.... don't remember if you mentioned if it it moves when manually shift....either way it's internal.... call local transmission shops and see who offers free diagnostic...

 

[spcypepper]

If it were "hard" part and unit is toasted would I have metal in the pan for sure?

 

[dfc739]

If it were "hard" part and unit is toasted would I have metal in the pan for sure?

You're asking for a specific answer for a broad variety of possible causes. Your answer is "maybe."

If you pull the pan and it doesn't look too bad I'm leaning more toward losing fluid pressure possibly in the valve body. No fluid pressure = no applied clutches/band = no movement. Definitely check the resistance of the solenoids. Also check to make sure the manual valve hasn't been damaged/disconnected. The manual valve changes which fluid circuit gets pressure and if it's stuck or disconnected could still be sending fluid to the "neutral" path. It could even be a problem/defect with the filter and it isn't properly pulling trans fluid. If it isn't that it could be a bad pump.

I doubt you simultaneously destroyed all the clutches, which is why I'm leaning away from the common 3/4 clutch problems.

 

[KNBlazer]

In my case, I had a film of silver colored sludge like material.... either drop the pan and check yourself or call for a free diagnostic, they will use a computer that will send commands to the transmission, ultimately reaching a diagnostic.... it could be something simple or it could be a complete rebuild.... No SES light, I would imagine the solenoids are in working condition....

 

[spcypepper]

Thanks. I don't plan on getting it towed for the diagnostic. I was planning on ripping out and replacing with used one but wanted to make sure this was def dead. I am putting up on stands and will post back my findings after I remove pan.

 

[spcypepper]

Ok I have the pan off and the fluid Is like a brown color. There are no pieces of metal in the pan. I did notice on the magnet that there were fine silver residue. Last time I changed fluid I did not clean the pan out so not sure if this is old or if this even means anything.

 

[Oleachea]

Well if the fluid is shot which it sounds like it is that means it cannot create hydraulic pressure and it's not as viscous which means it's not lubricating as well either. The silver sludge could finite metal shavings mixed with fluid and if it's sticking to the magnet that's probably it.

 

[spcypepper]

Thanks I appreciate everyone's input helping me troubleshoot.

so you're thinking the pump went? Can you tell me how to check resistance on solenoids, I assume the car does not have to be on and from what I can tell should be around 20- 24 ohms. Thanks

 

[Oleachea]

No if the pump was failing you'd hear a drone going down the road and when the pump fails you get no movement at all since it can't it isn't sending fluid to build pressure anymore. I was just saying that when hydraulic fluid breaks down it just doesn't do what it's supposed to. If the silver sludge is finite shaving like i think that could be an issue with the sprag and the sun shell wearing down and gears wearing down. You can see in the first picture what a wore down one looks like and the second picture can you can see they way that it just shears off.

 

[spcypepper]

Well I think you are right. I check the ohms all is well. I went to clean the pan out completely and found the bottom of the pan was coated with metallic, as I poured the pan out I noticed a few small metal pieces about 1/16-/8th size. Based on what research I have done and what you are saying probably the weak sun they put in these things.

So I now am heading in the replacing mode. I do have a question regarding removal because this is definitely tight around the bell housing then my wrangler. How many bolts are on top of the bell and with long extensions can they be reached?

Thanks

 

[spcypepper]

I think I may also play around with rebuilding this old one. Saw a nice write up and looks pretty straight forward.

 

[Oleachea]

There are eleven all together, the one on the right is what you're looking for, just for a reference to know where they are when you're underneath it.

 

[Oleachea]

Just remember the kit isn't even half of what you need to rebuild one of these PROPERLY. All that comes in a master kit is clutches, steels, seals, sealing rings, and gaskets.

 

[Texan]

There are eleven all together, the one on the right is what you're looking for, just for a reference to know where they are when you're underneath it.

You provided some very good information. I looked back through the info. and could not tell
if he had a V8 or I6, or if 4x4. The one on the left is V8 and right I6, I think.

 

[spcypepper]

Sorry

Yes 6 cyl 4x4