<FIXED> Lifter noise & dull knocking (bottom end?) troubleshooting

[Capote]

And I also forgot to mention, there's a second crack opposite of the one...
@Sparky will do man, may end up asking Brandon's father to borrow his extra truck until I can install the flex plate next weekend. It'll arrive Wednesday apparently. Kinda nervous now seeing how it has two cracks.
Also putting a new rear main seal in as well. And once again cleaning the underside of my truck....she likes to stay moist lol

 

[Sparky]

Makes sense to do that while you're in there.

 

[mrrsm]

The Very Best of Luck to you Brother on the Repair...

I was trying to think of any other details or things to be concerned with after @Sparky mentioned that your transmission had been in and out on prior occasions and these suggestions come to mind:

(1) Does your vehicle require a thin Flange Washer placed just so before the 8 Flex-Plate Bolts are installed? I wasn't even certain that my 2002 TB had one...so I just grabbed some images off the 2004 Donor Motor to Double Check. Its definitely on there on this '04.

(2) I read somewhere that its possible to put an enormous stress on the outer areas of the Flex-Plate at the three points of contact where the Torque Converter Bolts get installed if they are either Over-Torqued and-or Under-Tightened anywhere in the triangle of TC Fasteners taking the massive weight and motion transmitted from the Flex-Plate into the Torque Converter. The loose ones apparently represent an even bigger problem because they will "Oval Out" under the Square Contact Pads and so its not too easy to spy on them if there is a problem.

 

[Capote]

The Very Best of Luck to you Brother on the Repair...

I was trying to think of any other details or things to be concerned with after @Sparky mentioned that your transmission had been in and out on prior occasions and these suggestions come to mind:

(1) Does your vehicle require a thin Flange Washer placed just so before the 8 Flex-Plate Bolts are installed? I wasn't even certain that my 2002 TB had them...so I just grabbed some images off the 2004 Donor Motor to Double Check. Its definitely on there in this '04.View attachment 78387 View attachment 78388 View attachment 78389 View attachment 78390 View attachment 78391 View attachment 78392

(2) I read somewhere that its possible to put an enormous stress on the outer areas of the Flex-Plate at the three points of contact where the Torque Converter Bolts get installed if they are either Over-Torqued and-or Under-Tightened anywhere in the triangle of TC Fasteners taking the massive weight and motion transmitted from the Flex-Plate into the Torque Converter. The loose ones apparently represent an even bigger problem because they will "Oval Out" under the Square Contact Pads and so its not be easy to spy on them if there is a problem.

Thanks @MRRSM

Second transmission rebuild I had put in, I forgot to put Loctite on the torque converter bolts so they started walking out and it got to the point where they were making noise in the housing. Could have made some hairline cracks back then that grew over time from that stress.
I'm sure mine will have that flange since mines an '04; f it does I'll be sure to swap it over onto the "new" flywheel.

 

[mrrsm]

You wouldn't think that such a Thin Piece of a Metal Ring could make such an important difference... but it application here is the way to magnify the tiny square inch surface under the heads of each of those Chubby, Gnarly 10.9 fasteners... and sort of "de-concentrate" their holding power at the points of immediate bolt head contact... right down into every square inch of the larger surface of the Flange Washer. The pressure principles at play here can best be illustrated by these two examples:

"As Area INCREASES... Pressure DECREASES..."

A man lays down under a 3/4" X 4' X 8' section of Marine Plywood with a total Surface Area of 32 Square Feet of Space...and a 10 Ton Elephant slowly walked over him without causing the man any harm. The Flex-Plate Flange Washer behaves like this to reduce the chances of cracking the area around each of the 8 Bolt Holes as long as they are gradually tightened in stages and High Temp Lok-Tite gets applied to threads.

Conversely... a 98 pound Woman wearing a Pair of 6" Tall "FMPs" Stiletto Ankle Strap High Heels with a Heel Button only 1/4" Square was being attacked by an intruder...when she stepped on the top of his lead foot...and drove the tip of her High Heel Shoe Heel Point... completely through his foot... like it was a Hot Knife through Butter.

"As Area DECREASES... Pressure INCREASES..."

 

[Mooseman]

@Capote , with the video that @MRRSM posted about bad flex plates, you should find a way to verify that your replacement runs true. Maybe a machine shop can check this or, a little different, install it and engage the starter to spin it while you observe it. I wouldn't start the engine as this could be dangerous without the torque converter and bellhousing.

 

[Capote]

@Capote , with the video that @MRRSM posted about bad flex plates, you should find a way to verify that your replacement runs true. Maybe a machine shop can check this or, a little different, install it and engage the starter to spin it while you observe it. I wouldn't start the engine as this could be dangerous without the torque converter and bellhousing.

I'm going to make sure this replacement is in good order before putting the transmission back in.

 

[mrrsm]

Even though the Old Flex-Plate will probably will not be "True" any more in many respects... it would be interesting to do a Photo-Autopsy of it... side-by-side with the coming replacement.. just in case you can see anything weird that jumps right out into view. Measuring across from N to S and E to W to see if it is way out of round or egg shaped for example, might hold some clues as to the reason it failed. The comparison images between the two would be helpful down the road when others view this post for reference and answers if you discover some problem that has never been seen before ...because the impulse for most mechanics would probably be to just "Toss the Damned Thing..." as soon as they can.

 

[Capote]

Even though the Old Flex-Plate will probably will not be "True" any more in many respects... it would be interesting to do a Photo-Autopsy of it... side-by-side with the coming replacement.. just in case you can see anything weird that jumps right out into view. Measuring across from N to S and E to W to see if it is way out of round or egg shaped for example, might hold some clues as to the reason it failed. The comparison images between the two would be helpful down the road when others view this post for reference and answers if you discover some problem that has never been seen before ...because the impulse for most mechanics would probably be to just "Toss the Damned Thing..." as soon as they can.

I rarely throw out used parts for my truck. I keep a hold of them, as assinine as it sounds, I like to keep inventory.
I was going to do exactly that with the old flexplate and the new, using a level across in various positions to see how true it is. The old flexplate is gonna be hung up on my wall when I move lol, think that'd be pretty interesting. BatBlazer has been through a lot of s***.

 

[mrrsm]

@Capote There is nothing asinine about having a Suspicious and Critical Mechanical Thinking Skill to reflect and rely upon to investigate the reasons why things are broken...have broken...or are about to break. If the lurking and silent members visiting here and watching this repair drama unfold at the only place on the Internet that such stories can happen: (gmtnation.com) will take the time to peruse even just a handful of the Older Posts... the central repeating theme in all of them will be that the people who engage here as you do...repeatedly work through problems like these when things break down on or inside these great GMT vehicles and get the Trucks and SUVs right back on The Road. As in this instance... those posts are laden with the many responses, wisdom...successes and failures that Critical Thinkers like yourself work through...always trying to figure out the How and the What and the Why... When things invariably Break Down.

@Capote ...I'm not the least bit worried about the outcome of this repair you are in the middle of... Because..YOU... ARE.. BATMAN ... and The BatBlazer needs the freedom to roam comfortably and reliably on the roads... no matter what happens to break inside of it.

And so it is an extension of your ability and powers to adapt to prevailing situations...and overcome them. Once that "Toothy Circular Metal Object" is Dead and hanging there on the wall over your Work Bench... it will be the automotive equivalent of an Animal Pelt ... that you've earned the right to show after learning of its ways in the wild... and then Hunting it down...and Killing the Damned Thing. I can't wait so see a picture of this 'Object de Art".

 

[littleblazer]

So let me get this right in my head. The flex plate is essentially the same thing as a flywheel... It then bolts to the crank and tc slips on and such. Huh. Glad it wasn't internal.

Get it checked out. Then enjoy the truck damn it.

 

[Capote]

Replaced the flexplate this morning and put in a new rear main seal too. Cleaned everything up as well. I am astonished the flexplate didn't come free from the hub portion, it cracked, then spread all around the hub. Hub spun free from its origional position and ate up the rear of the crankshaft a bit (sanded it smooth again) and then lodged itself against one of the cracks that first appeared on the face of the flexplate. Even a small piece is missing. Debris has also scuffed up the torque converter a bit, paint wise. By the grace of god and luck, it never broke free again and lasted for what was over a month like this I assume. I guess driving it like a grandma until now has helped. I'm putting the broken flexplate on my wall lol, would make an awesome conversation piece.
Behold the chaos:
Major warping occurred:

You can see here clearly that the hub spun and lodged itself:

 

[Sparky]

Dang! And it was lodged well enough that the starter still worked on it fine. That's nuts.

 

[Capote]

Dang! And it was lodged well enough that the starter still worked on it fine. That's nuts.

Yeah man, its rather crazy to imagine all the driving it went through like this.

 

[littleblazer]

I've heard of flywheels slicing cars in half when they let loose. You're very lucky man. Glad it's fixed.

 

[Capote]

Glad its fixed too, did some horsing around in a parking lot to celebrate lol

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

Damn son. Glad it is back to good

 

[Capote]

Damn son. Glad it is back to good

Thanks Kyle
Its driving great, truck feels to be the best its been in a very long time.