SOLVED! Intermittent stops cranking during start attempt

[movietvet]

Just for reference I did replace the ignition switch that I was warned here can cause problems. I could not get an OE Genuine GM that I like to use and had to settle for a Standard Parts switch. After that replacement all has been good for 2-3 months till now. I have been chasing an intermittent long crank before start, after sitting for long periods, like overnight. I did the fuel pressure regulator with no change and if turn key to KOEO for 5 seconds and then start, there is no problems and I believe it is fuel pump related.

Is a 2002 with 70k miles on the clock.

Anyway, during that diagnosis, I ran in to another very intermittent problem. While cranking the engine will initially be spinning and then the cranking just stops and if cycle the key, it cranks ok and then starts. I fear that the new ignition switch may be a culprit but I did replace the ignition relay with Genuine GM part. Have not experienced problem since then but the vehicle has only been started 3 times since the relay and the initial problem was very intermittent. I do plan to crawl under it and inspect the starter connections as well.

So, has anyone experienced this, even after replacing the ignition switch? Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[TJBaker57]

I also have a 2002 and chased similar if not the very same troubles for a couple years when I first acquired it.

Do a pin drag test on the fuseblock starter relay sockets. Do the same on the crank fuse socket.

I have some sheet aluminum that is the same thickness as fuse and relay terminals, 0.7mm, that I have cut into small strips for this purpose

 

[mrrsm]

It is VERY Easy to get "One Tooth Off" whenever performing the Ignition Switch R&R. THIS Video will both soothe (information-wise) AND IRRITATE (Nails-On-A-Chalkboard, Witch-In-The-Woods--Ichabod-Crane-Sleepy-Hollow-Voice-Wise) ...but it does cover the salient points about getting this Teeth Alignment part correct:

Another approach...

***Corrected Information*** ... LOOK at the Vendor List at the Bottom of THIS Link:

GM 15242754 Switch, genuine OEM part

Ignition & start (with lock cylinder control solenoid) (with gear teeth) GM genuine OEM part.

oemcats.com

 

[movietvet]

I appreciate that info about the ignition switch. I had Genuine GM part numbers: 12450251, 15242754 and 19179974

I am convinced that it is an intermittent ignition switch problem. I also was aware of the gear teeth alignment and made 100% for sure that I installed the new, aftermarket switch, correctly timed on the teeth. I saved the old switch and was gonna install it and see what happens but if can get a new one, I am gonna go with that.

What is the pigtail wire for on the one you supplied the part number for? My/her 2002 TrailBlazer is very very basic/base. It did not even come with key fobs. it does not have the capability to even use key fobs to unlock the doors. The original switch I replaced and the aftermarket replacement, did not come with that pigtail.

 

[movietvet]

Pin drag test?

 

[mrrsm]

THAT One will NOT Work... I corrected the Information in the OP Response above...

 

[TJBaker57]

Pin drag test?

A pin drag test involves using either a tool made for the purpose or some other item that is the same profile (thickness, width, and sufficient length to insert) as the relay or fuse etc. whose socket your are testing.


The idea is to insert the tool into ONE terminal socket at a time and use your feel for assesing that there is sufficient drag to indicate the socket has not worn or been damaged to the point it no longer is making reliable electrical and mechanical connection to the inserted fuse or relay. Easier to tell when isolating each individual terminal socket.

Here is a related video...

New video by Thomas J Baker

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[movietvet]

It is VERY Easy to get "One Tooth Off" whenever performing the Ignition Switch R&R. THIS Video will both soothe (information-wise) AND IRRITATE (Nails-On-A-Chalkboard, Witch-In-The-Woods--Ichabod-Crane-Sleepy-Hollow-Voice-Wise) ...but it does cover the salient points about getting this Teeth Alignment part correct:

Another approach...

***Corrected Information*** ... LOOK at the Vendor List at the Bottom of THIS Link:

GM 15242754 Switch, genuine OEM part

Ignition & start (with lock cylinder control solenoid) (with gear teeth) GM genuine OEM part.

oemcats.com

I jumped thru several hoops and started an account, gave them my email and gave them vehicle info and added part to cart and went to checkout and then was instructed that part is no longer available.

 

[movietvet]

A pin drag test involves using either a tool made for the purpose or some other item that is the same profile (thickness, width, and sufficient length to insert) as the relay or fuse etc. whose socket your are testing.


The idea is to insert the tool into ONE terminal socket at a time and use your feel for assesing that there is sufficient drag to indicate the socket has not worn or been damaged to the point it no longer is making reliable electrical and mechanical connection to the inserted fuse or relay. Easier to tell when isolating each individual terminal socket.

Here is a related video...

New video by Thomas J Baker

photos.app.goo.gl

Got it. Thanks.

 

[movietvet]

Even when I do a search at ebay, it comes up with Dorman or Standard Parts new switches or used Genuine GM switches. Hell, I got one of those. There has to be a NOS part on a shelf somewhere.

I even came up with the AC Delco number of D1426D.

 

[TJBaker57]

I must confess I am running my original 2002 ignition switch. I removed it, opened up the covers and cleaned the contacts with some fine silicon carbide paper. Like I have said, I'm cheap

The real kicker is I have had a new switch on hand since 2010 when I first acquired this truck!

 

[movietvet]

Well, tomorrow I am gonna put up on ramps and get under there and check the connections at the starter. I already inspected the battery connections. I do have the original ignition switch and will reinstall it if I decide to. I will open it up and inspect the insides as well. The relay has been replaced. No drag test, YET.

 

[TollKeeper]

For extended start situations, on these style trucks..

I always start with a spark test. If the cam/crank correlation is off, or not reading, its a pretty easy thing to diagnose. Pull the coil, insert spark gap tool, crank engine. If extended crank is observed, did you have spark?

 

[movietvet]

I did check the connections at the starter, without ramps, and found clean tight connections. Then I thought I found a Genuine GM ignition switch at this place:
https://www.gmpartscenter.net/?mscl...n=Make&utm_term=gm parts&utm_content=GM Parts, but then after I ordered yesterday, I got a cancellation email this morning for a "discontinued part".

I am convinced the problem is the ignition switch and if is gonna fail, I wish it would do it so I could hold key in crank position and then do some tests. I have the old switch and am likely gonna switch it back in. If anyone knows of NOS part some where, please let me know.

 

[movietvet]

@TollKeeper, I finally got a list from 915_Tahoe at the TYF for the NOS parts and the only ones that have a Genuine GM part or an AC Delco part, is a large company called Car Dealer Parts in several states and they cannot sell to an individual or ship to me. Now I have reached back to 915_Tahoe to see if he can buy and drop ship to me or get it in and ship to me. PITA

 

[TJBaker57]

did check the connections at the starter, without ramps, and found clean tight connections

On my vehicle I actually tested my connections at the starter with a meter. Everything looked clean and tight. With the starter relay jumped out my S terminal had power on the eyelet, power on the washer, power in the nut, no power on the stud!! It can happen.

 

[movietvet]

I have to catch it when it is failing, so intermittently.

 

[movietvet]

I keep banging my head against the wall. I have searched high and low for a Genuine GM ignition switch, part #15242754, and I thought I found one and paid for it and then got an email about them actually being out of stock and are refunding my payment. I reached out to a GM parts guru at the Tahoe/Yukon Forum I belong to and he gave me a large list of places that have NOS switches on the shelf. They either didn't have the part, had one that had been installed and then was back in a taped box, one that was being held for a GM tech at their shop and on and on. There was one company called Car Dealer Parts that showed several of them but would not sell to an individual and only sold to GM dealers and they have several facilities in the states that show a total of 37 of them. One place had 18 of them. Out of 13 places for me to call, they had 5 places on that list. Every time I reach out on ebay, turns out the part number reference just goes back to another aftermarket part. I am convinced that my intermittent "stops cranking" problem is the ignition switch and the one I have in there is an aftermarket Standard Parts switch.

 

[TollKeeper]

It appears you can get the ACD thru AAP.. They also appear to be reasonably priced.

Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

 

[mrrsm]

Possible Source for OEM Quality Parts...?

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?text=ignition%20switch&referer=v2

 

[movietvet]

Possible Source for OEM Quality Parts...?

https://www.napaonline.com/en/search?text=ignition%20switch&referer=v2

View attachment 107424

Aftermarket parts

 

[movietvet]

It appears you can get the ACD thru AAP.. They also appear to be reasonably priced.

Advance Auto Parts - Down for Maintenance

I will check that out today.

 

[movietvet]

@TollKeeper, there is an AAP here in town. Going there this morning. Thanks.

 

[Mooseman]

I don't understand why ACDelco would stop selling it. I understand the 10 year thing but this ignition switch is common to all GM trucks of that era and is a common failure part. Wish we could find out who made them for ACDelco and get them directly. Maybe it's the manufacturer that stopped making them.

 

[movietvet]

It does show the D1426D part in the AAP system but I am going to the store here in town to order it. I want to see if they give a military discount and take advantage of that.

 

[movietvet]

Been a hell of a day so far and it is only just after 10 here in the PNW. Advanced Auto Parts showed the part online and I went to the store to make sure I got my military discount. I got there and actually stood at the empty counter for a solid 10 minutes. Then some guy came out, punched in numbers and said cannot get Genuine GM or ACD part. I left and drove to AutoZone and got the same info there. I left for home dejected. I called the O'Reillys store, just down the street from the AutoZone store, and they showed an AC Delco D1426D part in a warehouse. I needed to take my waste oil there anyway. I drove back over there and had dealt with the counter guy before and he knows his s*h*i*t. He showed me the warehouse part and gave me my military discount and with shipping, will be a hair over $42. To be here on the 29th.

 

[TollKeeper]

Please dont open my spoiler until after you get the part and install it...

Spoiler: Spoiler!

Im calling it now.... Just my opinion cause I know so little about the 4.2 engines.. But I dont think its going to solve your problem.. I could be wrong thou.

 

[movietvet]

Please dont open my spoiler until after you get the part and install it...

Spoiler: Spoiler!

Im calling it now.... Just my opinion cause I know so little about the 4.2 engines.. But I dont think its going to solve your problem.. I could be wrong thou.

Do you realize how hard that is gonna be, to not open the spoiler......c'mon man!

I promise not to open, though.

 

[Mooseman]

A small ask, when you get it, take some detailed pictures of the switch itself so maybe we can find the original manufacturer through any markings or numbers.

 

[TJBaker57]

Have any of you disassembled this part? Where do you see the "failures"? Just the contacts? Does the cam wear? The 'pushrods'??

 

[Mooseman]

While searching for info on this switch, I found this video. Very informative and explains the changes. The failures seem to be mostly from the contacts.

 

[TJBaker57]

I have experienced the contact degredation myself. I cleaned them up with some fine silicon carbide paper strips like I used to clean point sets back in the day.

I suspected that the contacts were overwhelmingly the issue.

I have fully disassembled them as far as can go non-destructively on occasion to see how they worked.

 

[movietvet]

Well, it looks like the one I took out, right after I bought the rig and heard about problem ignition switches here, is likely the updated grey one. I can't find any other markings on the switch, than what you can see in the pics. The contacts look pristine. I had no initial problems till I installed the new Standard Parts switch. I am still gonna get the new one and install and just keep the old grey one, in case.

 

[movietvet]

I cannot remember if the one I installed is a grey one or black. It is a Standard Parts switch though, for sure.

 

[TJBaker57]

Did you look at the contact points in here where you see the little dark round carbon spots in this picture?

 

[movietvet]

Yes, I looked on both sides of the switch I took out and they looked like new. I just now opened up again and took a pic of what I could get with my phone. The 3 tabs were a no go for pics but looked the same as what I am posting. I took three pics, all tabs looked the same on both sides of switch. Blow up the one that works for you to see. Trust me, there are 3 separate pics here.

 

[Mooseman]

That grey one doesn't seem to be an OEM one. All the pictures I've seen and the video above, the original and replacement ACDelco had a GM marking and Made in Mexico on it. Although it may have the updated contacts, it doesn't seem to be an original.

 

[movietvet]

That grey one doesn't seem to be an OEM one. All the pictures I've seen and the video above, the original and replacement ACDelco had a GM marking and Made in Mexico on it. Although it may have the updated contacts, it doesn't seem to be an original.

Yea, at the time I replaced this switch I did not know about the different colors, like the video stated. I will know when the new ACD switch gets here next Wednesday and I do the swap again. I honestly don't remember if the Standard Parts switch in there now is grey or not. By this time, next week, WE will know. I am also going to do the pin drag test, as @TJBaker57 recommended, and will supply pics of new part like @Mooseman asked for.

I do suggest, if you are looking for a new switch, check at O'Reillys for the ACD D1426D switch.

 

[mrrsm]

Why... In The Name of God's Holy Trousers ...would ACDelco- GM STOP making a component that has made them so much money over these long decades? I just don't get it...!!!

We should all genuflect to the excellent Bench Top GM Ignition Switch Autopsy Diagnostics performed and elucidated by @TJBaker57 ...Such "First Principles" kinds of work should always be acknowledged and appreciated.

 

[movietvet]

So, received the new AC Delco D1426D switch today and it also shows the Genuine GM part #15242754 on it. It also has the upgraded case. I will be installing it tomorrow. She did experience the stop cranking problem yesterday.