Codes and symptoms sans thoughts

[jmonica]

It's strange, more often than not, I am visiting this site because I have car trouble and not enough knowledge to fix the problem myself, yet, I almost get excited that I have a reason to visit one of my all time favorite websites and interact with the smart and friendly people here. I think that says a lot about the site as well as the people here.

Rather than continue to blather on (any further) or proceed to post my own uneducated thoughts on what I think the problem with my car is, (Please don't take it the wrong way. Just trying to avoid being annoying and save you some time for once), I am going to post the troubles codes and symptoms and hope that cumulative info will make it easier to help me.

With that said, I need help with my Envoy that has 5 Codes
P0138
P0140
P0455
C0455
C0244

Symptoms:
Hard Starting
Fairly strong odor of gasoline fumes on drivers side rear area
Bad Mileage
Lower than normal engine power

I installed a new downstream O2 sensor and cleared codes, which came right back in less than 50 miles and new sensor provided no change in any of the symptoms. (ie. It didn't help and a waste of time an money).

Only once or twice in several months, I got "Tighten Gas cap" msg on my DIC.
Cap is not loose and it's a newer cap (less than a year old, I think "Stant" brand?). I just ordered a new cap anyway because the tether on it broke. I will get that and put it on today.

It idles good.

THANK YOU!

 

[Matt]

The P0455 along with the gas smell near the rear drivers side tells me that the fuel pump on top of the tank has started to rust through. Get your hands up there on top of the tank to feel for any wetness.

 

[mrrsm]

These Three Threads Bear (Thread-Bare?) Similar Ear Marks...

C0040 & c0055 & p0455

SES lit up this morning. Read those three codes. P0455 is likely the gas cap, I hear. As I researched the other two codes, I've read a few different things. Some folks say for C0040 Right Front Wheel speed sensor, just replace the sensor. Some folks say it's a sign to replace the hub. C0055...

gmtnation.com

P0455 and gas tank gurgle

So, have been having issues with filling the tank, have to trickle gas to fill it, too much and it kicks off. Typical. Started by removing vent valve, observing that it wasn't blocked, blew dirt out of it with compressor and blew out the vent line with the gas cap off to prevent possible...

gmtnation.com

P0138 *and* P0442 at same time

Had my SES light come on right after filling up the tank today. Got home and scanned; P0138 is O2 high voltage on bank 1, sensor 2 (so, a downstream one, and shouldn't be 'urgent') No change in drivability detected. P0442 is evap system 'small' leak Individually, I wouldn't be worried about...

gmtnation.com

 

[jmonica]

The P0455 along with the gas smell near the rear drivers side tells me that the fuel pump on top of the tank has started to rust through. Get your hands up there on top of the tank to feel for any wetness.

Thanks Matt. I will be sure to report my findings.

 

[jmonica]

These Three Threads Bear (Thread-Bare?) Similar Ear Marks...

C0040 & c0055 & p0455

SES lit up this morning. Read those three codes. P0455 is likely the gas cap, I hear. As I researched the other two codes, I've read a few different things. Some folks say for C0040 Right Front Wheel speed sensor, just replace the sensor. Some folks say it's a sign to replace the hub. C0055...

gmtnation.com

P0455 and gas tank gurgle

So, have been having issues with filling the tank, have to trickle gas to fill it, too much and it kicks off. Typical. Started by removing vent valve, observing that it wasn't blocked, blew dirt out of it with compressor and blew out the vent line with the gas cap off to prevent possible...

gmtnation.com

P0138 *and* P0442 at same time

Had my SES light come on right after filling up the tank today. Got home and scanned; P0138 is O2 high voltage on bank 1, sensor 2 (so, a downstream one, and shouldn't be 'urgent') No change in drivability detected. P0442 is evap system 'small' leak Individually, I wouldn't be worried about...

gmtnation.com

Thank You. I knew it was a pipedream, but I was hoping someone else had once had the exact same codes and symptoms on the exact same vehicle and they would reply with, oh yes, it's just a fuse. (Just kidding). When it comes to me and my car problems, it's NEVER "just a fuse". I will be sure to post my results, whatever they may be. Thanks again!

 

[Roudter]

Usually codes that mention an actual circuit high/low tend to lead to physical connection problems - wires broken, shorted together, shorted to ground and/or shorted to power.
I would verify that all the wires on that o2 sensor make it all the way to the ECU, or wherever they lead to without continuity issues.
I'd disconnect the battery, disconnect the o2 sensor - then make an ohm/continuity test between the wires. No wires running back to the ecu from the sensor should read zero ohms between them. That's a basic test.
Also, test wires against ground only one maybe two wires (if there are 4 on the o2 sensor) should be connected to chassis ground (if any).
Did your wires get messed up?
Of course the non response on the o2 will happen if the voltage is stuck high. But your car's ecu doesn't really think that way. You probably don't enter closed loop either....
Summary: check the wires and grounds..

 

[jmonica]

Usually codes that mention an actual circuit high/low tend to lead to physical connection problems - wires broken, shorted together, shorted to ground and/or shorted to power.
I would verify that all the wires on that o2 sensor make it all the way to the ECU, or wherever they lead to without continuity issues.
I'd disconnect the battery, disconnect the o2 sensor - then make an ohm/continuity test between the wires. No wires running back to the ecu from the sensor should read zero ohms between them. That's a basic test.
Also, test wires against ground only one maybe two wires (if there are 4 on the o2 sensor) should be connected to chassis ground (if any).
Did your wires get messed up?
Of course the non response on the o2 will happen if the voltage is stuck high. But your car's ecu doesn't really think that way. You probably don't enter closed loop either....
Summary: check the wires and grounds..

Hi thanks for your reply. I was able to verify the O2 Sensor and wiring is good. Based on Research and being told by another member to check the top of the tank for leaks, that’s what I did. I have bore camera that showed wet areas on the top of the gas tank, o think around the pump, but it’s definitely wet. I think this would make sense as the codes of I looked up up correctly show fuel pressure being off as possible causes and the 455 code says Large Evap Leak detected.
I’m dreading it but I don’t think I have a choice but to drop the tank to fix whatever is leaking on top. I was hoping it was the filler neck but im
seriously cursed. It’s almost always the worst possible thing it could be I have a black cloud following me wherever I go. I’d think something was wrong if I didn’t have at least one amber light on my dash at all times.
I’m tired of the Steering position sensor or Stabilitrac but I’m not spending another $85 on a new SPS. I have purchased three over the years. Two off brands and one ACDelco and the most I got out of them all was a week maybe.

Anyway I will post results / pics when I get the tank down and ID leak.

Thanks again for your help man!!!

 

[mrrsm]

Which might lead to watching THESE YT Instructional VIDZ before attempting this PITA-TASK:

Your Profile is missing the "Year Of Manufacture"... so with the possibility of you having an Earlier Model Envoy... THESE Two Videos involve a 2003 Vintage Trailblazer or a 2003 Envoy SUV that covers those Damned Idiosyncrasies of dealing with an External Fuel Filter and their troublesome Hosing and Keepers involved:

From @MAY03LT ...from Back In Better Times...

And from one of our Hispanic Brothers who makes his Bi-Lingual Explanations and Video-Camera Positioning and Image Captures here below ... A Pretty Awesome Video ...

Take Note of ALL the GM OEM Component Part Number Labels "In Plain View" that can make figuring out what they are in the future a BREEZE.. if you GRAB EACH ONE as Screen Caps while Viewing.

One Last Suggestion...

If GFB (God-For-Bid) you happen to discover any Cracks or Fractures on or around the Short Plastic Filler Neck of the Tank during your CAREFUL & COMPLETE Post-Tank-Removal & Inspection... Don't Despair... These All Aluminum Filler-Neck Replacement Kits are inexpensive enough to "splurge" for ahead of time and perform this unique and permanent fix if it comes down to cases... while the Tank is still Sitting On The Deck and that Kit is on the Shelf:

 

[Mooseman]

If GFB (God-For-Bid) you happen to discover any Cracks or Fractures on or around the Short Plastic Filler Neck of the Tank during your CAREFUL & COMPLETE Post-Tank-Removal & Inspection... Don't Despair...

Unless you have an 02 or early 03 EXT/XL/XUV, don't worry about it too much but do inspect it. Although issues with the filler neck really only affected those years and models, we have heard of only one or two of the SWB trucks getting this issue.

 

[Mooseman]

Oh and a recommendation for the replacement would be an ACDelco or Bosch. At all costs, stay away from Delphi. There have been several here that have gotten duds from them.

 

[Matt]

Buy the new pump and locking ring. Make sure you have as little fuel left in the tank as possible. When you drop the tank, drop it a couple of inches then unclip the lines, both fuel and electrical, before dropping the rest of the way. They're short so you can't drop the tank all the way without doing that.

Also, the real bitch is clipping those lines back in when you put the tank back. The fuel lines are pretty easy, it's the electrical connector that got me. Took me over 45 minutes and I have a scar on my arm from rubbing on the frame try to get that bastard back on. Overall it took me about 3 hours from start to finish to do mine.

 

[Mooseman]

Buy the new pump and locking ring.

If the top of the pump is rusted out, the ring will be garbage as well.

 

[NJTB]

If, on your camera inspection, the metal lines are really rusted, the plastic connectors may not come off as the lines are rusted in them. Happened to me.
To get the correct lines you need to know if the fuel filter is in the tank or on the rail.
And yes, get a new ring, too.

 

[jmonica]

Oh and a recommendation for the replacement would be an ACDelco or Bosch. At all costs, stay away from Delphi. There have been several here that have gotten duds from them.

Just in the nick of time, Thank You as always Moose. Without a doubt I would have gone for the cheapest option, thus causing myself more grief and having repeat this tank removal procedure again in the future. Well. here I go! Thank You every one. The pics I took were with the bore camera. If I can figure out how to transfer them to the laptop, i will post and an update, because as you know, I just talk (type) too much.

 

[jmonica]

Buy the new pump and locking ring. Make sure you have as little fuel left in the tank as possible. When you drop the tank, drop it a couple of inches then unclip the lines, both fuel and electrical, before dropping the rest of the way. They're short so you can't drop the tank all the way without doing that.

Also, the real bitch is clipping those lines back in when you put the tank back. The fuel lines are pretty easy, it's the electrical connector that got me. Took me over 45 minutes and I have a scar on my arm from rubbing on the frame try to get that bastard back on. Overall it took me about 3 hours from start to finish to do mine.

Thank You Matt. I have about 1/4 tank now so I am going to drive around and get as close to empty as I can. I am REALLY not looking forward to this. I have a tiny one car garage and live in a neighborhood where you can't work on your car in the driveway. I've been cited twice for that. BUT I replaced the transmission and transfer case in the garage so it should be doable.

I appreciate your help and advice man. Very much! And.... here we go... sigh

 

[jmonica]

If, on your camera inspection, the metal lines are really rusted, the plastic connectors may not come off as the lines are rusted in them. Happened to me.
To get the correct lines you need to know if the fuel filter is in the tank or on the rail.
And yes, get a new ring, too.

Got it, thank you. Mine is an '06 so the filter is on the pump I believe. It would explain why I have never been able to find the fuel filter. Duh! Thanks again man!

 

[jmonica]

Hey guys, question. Am I going to need a special tool to remove the ring that holds the pump in? I know they sell them, but should I be able to do it without it maybe? When I say will I need one, I mean, I know its the proper way to do it, I am referring to be able to do it without the tool if I need to.

Thank You

 

[jmonica]

Is it possible to delete messages I've posted? I talk too darn much.

 

[jmonica]

Alrighty, now that I have broken the clips off two of the fittings, this POS is finally out. I'm glad I found one of the lines rusted and broken off the top or I would have really been pissed. So not much to report that you guys haven't already mentioned here except that the plastic hose fittings that look like there are two clips that you push up to release, I believe instead you push down on the top to release them. I'm a huge idiot. I just hope I can find a way to fix the ones that I broke.

One other thing. ON this car, between the filler neck and the tank, there's a 6" or so hose connecting the two. It's over $60. The entire filler neck from the gas cap to the tank (minus that 6" hose) is only like $80. Crazy man.

Thanks for all of your help guys. I'm grateful for gmtnation.com and all of the brainiacs that hang out here and help people like me. Actually i's more like an idiot like me.

 

[Matt]

Hey guys, question. Am I going to need a special tool to remove the ring that holds the pump in? I know they sell them, but should I be able to do it without it maybe? When I say will I need one, I mean, I know its the proper way to do it, I am referring to be able to do it without the tool if I need to.

Thank You

Just use a big flat screwdriver or something similar and a hammer. It spins off like a nut.

 

[NJTB]

That looks like mine when I took it apart. I thought it would be as bad as it was, so I had the ring and hoses beforehand.
I went with an A/C Delco pump from the dealership and couldn't get the new rubber seal to go in without that tool, and after some research, found there were a few different numbers for the different years. Bought one from Ebay, used it once and it's sitting in my tool box.
When I was in the buisness, I probably put 100 fuel pumps in and never had a problem with the screwdriver/hammer remove and replace. Why on this platform I needed the tool I'll never know.
If you want it, PM me your address and I'll send it to you, just send it back to me.

 

[jmonica]

Just use a big flat screwdriver or something similar and a hammer. It spins off like a nut.

Ok, Thank You!

 

[jmonica]

That looks like mine when I took it apart. I thought it would be as bad as it was, so I had the ring and hoses beforehand.
I went with an A/C Delco pump from the dealership and couldn't get the new rubber seal to go in without that tool, and after some research, found there were a few different numbers for the different years. Bought one from Ebay, used it once and it's sitting in my tool box.
When I was in the buisness, I probably put 100 fuel pumps in and never had a problem with the screwdriver/hammer remove and replace. Why on this platform I needed the tool I'll never know.
If you want it, PM me your address and I'll send it to you, just send it back to me.

Hey Thanks. That's very nice of you to offer man. I appreciate it. I ordered a cheapo on online. It should be here with the new pump and ring tomorrow.

Now have to decide if I feel like pulling the rear axles out to replace the backing plates. I've replaced them once over the years, but they have almost totally disappeared again. Have a great weekend!

 

[Mooseman]

Unless they are preventing the parking brakes from working, I wouldn't bother unless you have regular safety inspections that has to have them. Here in Ontario, they are not required as they know they just rust away and are useless.

 

[jmonica]

Unless they are preventing the parking brakes from working, I wouldn't bother unless you have regular safety inspections that has to have them. Here in Ontario, they are not required as they know they just rust away and are useless.

Ok Thank You. NJ, USA switched to an emissions only inspection. The rest is left up to the cops I guess to spot "unsafe" equipment violations on the road.

Weird only the drivers side rear shield is completely gone, while the pass. side is still fully intact and in good shape. The crossbar that you remove to drop the tank is only rusted on one half. The opposite half is smooth and black. Weird man!

I guess I will take your advice and not open that can of worms given the long list of repairs I still have on my plate in the next couple of days.

Priority one is getting the fuel leak fixed and getting rid of the 5 Check Engine codes. This may not fix all of them, but it's got to be causing at least some of them I think.

I have 23 or 24 other things to fix on my list, but my next post after that will be about the intermittent flashing security light and whether or not there's chance a new ignition cylinder would fix that problem. The reason I ask is that I have one sitting in my toolbox. That already caused me to be late to one interview. I can't let that happen again. Thanks again Moose! You're the best man!

 

[jmonica]

The way GM designed the in tank fuel pump for these vehicles has go to be the worst ever designed. Right down to the materials they used. Why not make the top of the pump out of some sort of synthetic material? I'm just spit-balling but how bout the the same plastic the tank is made of?\
I had to use a freaking air hammer to remove the and of course I broke the plastic fittings for the fuel feed and vent to the pump because the rusted metal line portions that snapped off were permanently fused to the nylon hose fittings.

I'm just ranting but it should give the next guy an idea of what a pain this repair is, especially if they live in snowy winter areas, Personally, the fittings for the plastic hoses amounted to about 75% of the total time it took to drop tank, replace pump and replace tank.

 

[Mooseman]

Why not make the top of the pump out of some sort of synthetic material?

Actually it was at one time. This is an ACDelco for an '00 Blazer:

Why they went to metal is beyond me. Probably some bean counter said it was somehow cheaper or there was a way to make money on later repairs. I put some POR15 on the top of the new one I put on the Saab (I should have kept it when I scrapped it).

Were you able to repair the nylon fittings to the tank? Dorman's Help! has repair fittings that can be spliced in. I had the same issue but just the nylon O-ring spacer got destroyed.

Fuel pump pipe seal and collar

This is for my 2006 9-7x 5.3L. I'm in the middle of replacing the fuel pump. Old one the metal line rusted out and was spewing fuel. Had problems removing the old fuel and evap lines from the pump. I broke the clip for the evap line and I can't get the collar off the old fuel pump supply...

gmtnation.com

It would probably be easier to find whole fittings though.

 

[jmonica]

Actually it was at one time. This is an ACDelco for an '00 Blazer:

Why they went to metal is beyond me. Probably some bean counter said it was somehow cheaper or there was a way to make money on later repairs. I put some POR15 on the top of the new one I put on the Saab (I should have kept it when I scrapped it).

Were you able to repair the nylon fittings to the tank? Dorman's Help! has repair fittings that can be spliced in. I had the same issue but just the nylon O-ring spacer got destroyed.

Fuel pump pipe seal and collar

This is for my 2006 9-7x 5.3L. I'm in the middle of replacing the fuel pump. Old one the metal line rusted out and was spewing fuel. Had problems removing the old fuel and evap lines from the pump. I broke the clip for the evap line and I can't get the collar off the old fuel pump supply...

gmtnation.com

It would probably be easier to find whole fittings though.

HI. Yes thanks to Dorman, they sell an extension with the clips on it. I cut the line and spliced in the new line with the fitting attached that I bought from Dorman. I don't like the idea of splicing in the fuel line like that. Not really worried if it fails, I was more worried about having to drop the tank again.

I was considering coating the top of my fuel pump a well, but I didn't. I was considering plating it with Zinc or Nickel/Cobalt, but I didn't.

Now that everything is cleaned up, new bolts, threads chased etc.. and given the amount of time spent on the project, dropping the tank doesn't seem anywhere near as daunting a task as it was before I started so I am not having nightmares about it yet.

BUT I still haven't put the tank back in yet because I am working on some rust removal and spending time replacing or fixing fittings, etc...

I still have one more clip to replace. It's one of the larger white fittings that go to vapor cannister. I can get to it afterwards and its not totally broken, so I'm not going to let it hold me up for now. The parts store only had a couple of those last night unfortunately.
But the tank is ready to go back in.

I just want to install the new back half exhaust before I do the tank. I had replaced the exhaust with a loader sounding system that basically just included a smaller muffler and no resonator. I am sorry I did that. I put the OEM one back on which fell off the car as I was pulling into the mall to get my covid vaccine last year.

There was a line of about 50 people who all got to watch the Envoy lay an egg (resonator) as I pulled in. It was loud because everyone in line turned and looked. So embarrassing.

So I replaced the end links, rebuilt rear calipers, new rotors, pads, fixed parking brake, installed new spare tire carrier, replaced backup light socket, drained and filled rear end oil. Once i hang the tank in 15 minutes, then I have to turn the car around in the garage and start on 17 new fixes or parts replacements on the front end or under the hood. $ new tie rods ends, ball joints, vapor purge valve, strut mounts, new water pump pulley, new belt, Front End alignment, new front tires etc etc etc.

 

[jmonica]

So after all is said and done. Fuel Pump replaced, I also replaced the exhaust pipe from the muffler back and various other things, the fuel smell is gone and 2 of the 5 codes are gone. P0138 and P0455 are gone. I just got the p0140 code again. I will test the O2 sensor tomorrow and hopefully be able see what's up. It already runs a lot better or at least I feel like it does.

Still have two more codes (C0244 and C0455 ) but they seem to be related to the old faithful steering position sensor. I am going to breakdown and try to install a new one JUST one last time. This will be number 4 over the last 15 years. Long story on those that I wont bore you with.

Thank You again everyone for all of your help!

 

[Mooseman]

We do have a thread on the C0244. Unfortunately the OP never posted a resolution.

C0244 code. Need help.

I hope this is the right place for this. I have searched far and wide, but to no avail. I'm getting a C0244 code, no other codes as far as I can tell. No lights on the dash, stabilitrak, abs seem to work fine. For the most part the truck drives fine. I do have a looseness/backlash/ slop issue...

gmtnation.com