Hey guys/gals ...I was wondering what you think about working under the vehicles? Do you always jack up the truck and put 4 jack stands under the frame or do you think it's safe enough to crawl under with no support? I know it would be 100% safer to work with jack stands but something bothers me knowing the truck is higher in the air and if something were to happen it would fall that much further. Just wondering what you think. I know it sounds silly but I want to change my trans fluid and filter but I only have a few inches of room under there.
Working under truck safety
- Thread starter CaptainXL
- Start date
Voymom
Member
- Feb 3, 2012
- 2,523
CaptainXL said:
Honestly I like using Jack stands, either way it's always dangerous getting under a vehicle, even with lifts vehicles can fall. As far as the truck being higher off the ground compared to a jack, I don't think that will make a big difference, either way if it falls, your still going to get the full weight on top of you. I also think it takes a greater amount of force to get a truck to come off of the stands compared to a jack, the jack can get pushed, moved or what not, and it wouldn't take as much force to knock it out of whack.
But just my 2 pennies!
Yes. Or at least two jack stands. Or drive the front wheels up on ramps. Ramps are cheap. You can even make your own from 2X10s.CaptainXL said:
View attachment 23216
Or do you mean the alternative is to not jack it up at all? Surely you didn't intend to jack one wheel up and crawl underneath with only the jack for support?
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Boricua SS
Member
i've always used jack stands... then for extra support, i lay the wheels on there sides and slid them underneath along the frame.. for in the event if it falls off the stands... it will come down on the wheels and only catch me a little bit, but not the full force of the truck.. i would rather damage or total my rims, then to get killed over working under a vehicle..
the roadie said:
I want to know about not jacking it up at all. I realize you should never get under with just a pump jack supporting the weight. I have been under my truck with no jack stands or jack before such as when I changed my transfer case fluid. What are the odds your suspension will fail working under the truck to do a transmission fluid change?
I always use jack stands. Do not trust the jack. At work we had a call where the jack leaked abit and sagged on the guy. The sister came along and tried to jack it up and twisted the handle dropping the car on the guy. Car won , it was a slammed Civic. Always use plywood as a base for the jack stands on asphalt , I have had the stands sink into the driveway.
The suspension has less chance of falling on you than the ignition switch will spontaneously short out along with the brake pedal switch and the transmission shift lever gets moved by a squirrel and the vehicle lurches forward and runs over your leg.CaptainXL said:
Proof - when was the last time you saw a vehicle with all four tires on it, sitting flat on the ground with a failed suspension in ANY parking lot in your entire life?
Sheesh.
Denali n DOO
Member
- May 22, 2012
- 5,596
the roadie said:Yes. Or at least two jack stands. Or drive the front wheels up on ramps. Ramps are cheap. You can even make your own from 2X10s.
View attachment 9732
Or do you mean the alternative is to not jack it up at all? Surely you didn't intend to jack one wheel up and crawl underneath with only the jack for support?
Those ramps look good, think I'll make some. Few weeks back I crawled under the back end with soap and water to see if I had a leak in the air suspension. I didn't jack it up or nothing because I could fit under the spare, barely. All of a sudden I thought what if I pull a air hose off or something and the bags deflate
? My heart rate sped up and I wiggled my ass outta there real quick and abandoned the mission!Fire06 said:
Yeah, I read an article about a guy out in the country that used a jack and blocks of wood on his dirt road and the minivan crushed him when they sank into the dirt. and some of the videos I see on Youtube are pretty scary. People using cinder blocks and stuff. eek
Lima Tango
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 242
If you are thin enough to slide under and the vehicle's cooled down, power to you. Zero risk really.
Nobody has any business jacking it up without using stands. I *ALWAYS* use stands, chock the wheels, and also leave the jack under there as secondary support. My kids are too important to me to risk leaving them fatherless for want of $25 jackstands and 20 seconds of my time. Even if I am not underneath it I still don't want to risk dropping the whole car on the rotor and axle if the jack fails.
Nobody has any business jacking it up without using stands. I *ALWAYS* use stands, chock the wheels, and also leave the jack under there as secondary support. My kids are too important to me to risk leaving them fatherless for want of $25 jackstands and 20 seconds of my time. Even if I am not underneath it I still don't want to risk dropping the whole car on the rotor and axle if the jack fails.
WarGawd
Member
- Sep 2, 2012
- 468
FWIW, I actually had a single spring on the Montana collapse on me, while sitting still in the driveway. The broken coil halves entangled each other keeping the relative motion to a few inches, and it was still driveable, but I can see how it might have been worse. I wasn't under it at the time, just nearby (for a split second I thought a stray hunter's bullet had blown out a tire or something).
So for me, while I totally agree the risk is probably of the order of whacky things that roadie suggests, I'll be using stands when I do my tranny fluid shortly. Better clearance, easier to work, and I'd have to guess the odds of stands failing are significantly lower than the odds of suspension failure.
For extra safety, you could consider commissioning some Hungarian students to build you some ramps - more portable than "roadie ramps", no risk to your rims, under$10, and gives you the ingredients for supper after.
So for me, while I totally agree the risk is probably of the order of whacky things that roadie suggests, I'll be using stands when I do my tranny fluid shortly. Better clearance, easier to work, and I'd have to guess the odds of stands failing are significantly lower than the odds of suspension failure.
For extra safety, you could consider commissioning some Hungarian students to build you some ramps - more portable than "roadie ramps", no risk to your rims, under$10, and gives you the ingredients for supper after.
Lima Tango said:
Really? I don't believe in zero risk and I believe the second law of thermodynamics and Murphy's law kills when least expected.
Lima Tango
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 242
CaptainXL said:
Fair enough. It's approaching zero but cannot be true zero into infinity. Nothing wrong with slapping a jackstand under the frame to reduce the risk to the probability of both the suspension spontaneously failing catastrophically and the jackstand spontaneously failing catastrophically all at the same time, which will still not be zero. Make sure to put out traps for roadie's squirrel with a penchant for vehicular mayhem.
Sparky
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 12,927
I never use 4 jackstands as I only own two 
I've not had to lift up the whole truck onto jackstands yet, so I've never needed more than two. If I just have one corner lifted I'm using just one jackstand. One end or side of the truck, two jackstands. The jack is also left under the truck with some pressure on the frame as a secondary support in case something weird happened to a jackstand, though the odds of a well built stand failing are pretty slim.
I just wish I had concrete to park on instead of gravel. I have to drive somewhere else to do any work that requires getting under the truck. I have been tempted to park on the raised concrete patio to do work but I don't want to risk cracking it or staining it as I suspect the landlord wouldn't appreciate that
I've not had to lift up the whole truck onto jackstands yet, so I've never needed more than two. If I just have one corner lifted I'm using just one jackstand. One end or side of the truck, two jackstands. The jack is also left under the truck with some pressure on the frame as a secondary support in case something weird happened to a jackstand, though the odds of a well built stand failing are pretty slim.
I just wish I had concrete to park on instead of gravel. I have to drive somewhere else to do any work that requires getting under the truck. I have been tempted to park on the raised concrete patio to do work but I don't want to risk cracking it or staining it as I suspect the landlord wouldn't appreciate that
I hear ya. We have an ordinance that says we can't work on cars in the driveway. We have to work them in the garage.
Glad I don't have that Captain.. I worked on my sons car for over 2 weeks. It sat in the driveway on jackstands. Had to order the parts and then put them on
I have nice neighbors because no one complained
Garage is full of junk
I have nice neighbors because no one complained
Garage is full of junk
Sparky
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 12,927
I think anyone who complains about their neighbor working on their own car in their own driveway is a snoot and needs his head examined (assuming you're not working on it at 2 AM making a racket with a grinder or something).
When I finally buy a house I'll make sure there is no HOA or any other group of busybodies to tell me what I can and cannot do with and on my own property.
When I finally buy a house I'll make sure there is no HOA or any other group of busybodies to tell me what I can and cannot do with and on my own property.
Sparky said:
Yes my HOA is a PITA. But hey my neighboor couple houses down sells his cars at his home. His boss has him bring the cars over from where he works and sells them as if it is a private sale. Sounds crooked if you ask me. I could turn him in. Our state only allows you to sell up to 5 cars max in private sales unless you are licensed.
Lima Tango
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 242
Sparky said:
Agreed! I have a friend who was rushing to finish the restoration on a WWII Willy's jeep in the week before he deployed. Put the frame in the driveway while finishing up the engine and trans in the garage. Promptly got a letter the next day from the HOA ordering him to remove it before they did it for him and he would be billed for the cost of hauling it away to a junkyard. No freakin' way will I ever voluntarially live in a police state like that!
Lima Tango said:
Some people seriously need to get a life and quit harassing others minding there own business and not disturbing others. These HOA more than likely have all kinds of shit in the closet if you were to poke around. What a bunch of asses. I could see how they could get started by some guy running a full service garage out of his garage with junk (car parts) all over cars on the front lawn creating a eye sore for the neighborhood to deal with .
As far as I can see, nobody's forced to buy into a HOA situation. Choices. Most of us choose to shun them.
Sparky
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 12,927
CaptainXL said:
If he is getting the cars registered in his name to resell later then the state already would know. If he's allowing other people to use his yard for exposure (maybe a good area for passing traffic to see the cars), but he's not the one doing the actual sales then there isn't really anything wrong with that. There is someone not too far from my parents who has a prime spot near a fairly busy state route that he "sells" a lot of different vehicles but the actual owners of the vehicles are the ones who do all the actual sales of their own cars.
gmcman
Member
- Dec 12, 2011
- 4,673
I have 2 pairs of these stands from Sears, I like them alot but for the voy, I wish the jaws were just slightly wider but they clear the frame rails.
I think I may look for 2 more like the orange ones pictured, much wider jaw. Like Lima Tango stated, I also lay the wheels under the frame for added insurance.
No way, never ever ever get under a vehicle with only a jack supporting it.
Nice ramps Roadie, was going to make some but storing them right now is tight. 4 of those would work great for most anything.
I think I may look for 2 more like the orange ones pictured, much wider jaw. Like Lima Tango stated, I also lay the wheels under the frame for added insurance.
No way, never ever ever get under a vehicle with only a jack supporting it.
Nice ramps Roadie, was going to make some but storing them right now is tight. 4 of those would work great for most anything.
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the roadie said:
Great. Something else to worry about.
Seriously. The brother of a a university friend had his '70s Camaro fall on him. We don't know why he didn't use the stands "just his once" because he was always preaching safety in the shop.
If I use a jack, I always use at least one jack stand. I don't have complete faith in the jack hydraulic valve alone. (cheap made in china crap) I use steel ramps for my truck and my '73 Buick, but I do have some low profile plastic ramps I use under newer cars. The old steel ramps just don't fit under the front bumpers of newer cars.
navigator
Member
- Dec 3, 2011
- 504
I use ramps when I can and then use a jack with jackstands for anything else if I will be under the truck.
If I am just rotating tires or changing brakes and won't actually be under the truck I may not use the jackstands but will usually slide a tire under the frame.
As far as HOA, they are like any other group. The idea is good but usually when someone gets power, they go crazy.
I mean if I lived in subdivision I would like for most of the homes to be similar (no far out colors), for people to keep their yard mowed and for no one to run a junkyard in the neighborhood but don't go overboard.
I have a friend who wants to sell his house.
He can't put a 4sale sign in his yard because all the houses in his subdivision have not sold yet.
I told him to make a sign and put on his car
If I am just rotating tires or changing brakes and won't actually be under the truck I may not use the jackstands but will usually slide a tire under the frame.
As far as HOA, they are like any other group. The idea is good but usually when someone gets power, they go crazy.
I mean if I lived in subdivision I would like for most of the homes to be similar (no far out colors), for people to keep their yard mowed and for no one to run a junkyard in the neighborhood but don't go overboard.
I have a friend who wants to sell his house.
He can't put a 4sale sign in his yard because all the houses in his subdivision have not sold yet.
I told him to make a sign and put on his car
Well I just brought the Envoy in to do the gm dealer transmission flush for $180 out the door. They even used dexron 6 no problem. I've talked to a few people that do trans and they say that dropping the pan is really a thing of the past. The dealer said they flush 16 quarts through the cooler lines so this is good enough for me. I went to auto zone and added up how much dexron 6 is which would add up to $120 and its just not worth it for me being busy with kids. Might be a good option for you though if your changing filter.
Sparky
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 12,927
CaptainXL said:
What about the filter then? When will they claim that changing the oil filter is a thing of the past too?
The whole point of a pan drop is to replace the filter.I hope they didn't flush it backwards. I know some places do a "reverse flush" to "knock off any buildup" but that knocks the filtered stuff off the filter and shoves it back into the transmission. I've heard of more transmission deaths after reverse flushes than I care to repeat. Forward isn't too bad as any junk on the filter stays on the filter. I still rather drop the pan and replace the filter.
Sparky said:What about the filter then? When will they claim that changing the oil filter is a thing of the past too?
I hope they didn't flush it backwards. I know some places do a "reverse flush" to "knock off any buildup" but that knocks the filtered stuff off the filter and shoves it back into the transmission. I've heard of more transmission deaths after reverse flushes than I care to repeat. Forward isn't too bad as any junk on the filter stays on the filter. I still rather drop the pan and replace the filter.
Actually it came out to $160. I had a coupon. I called around to three well established trans shops in town and they all said there is no reason to drop the pan. The flush is forward and the contraption they use has a filter to catch anything that comes through. The first few quarts of fluid contain a chemical specifically designed to remove anything from the filter. Filters are now designed for life of vehicle. The only thing that doesn't get cleaned is the magnet. And the metal on that never recirculates anyway. MAkes sense.
Wahugg
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 87
That's a total lie.CaptainXL said:
Fluid & Filter are both suppose to be changed at 50k for severe use, or 100k for regular use.
View attachment 23261
^Pulled form the 2005 Manual.
-Wahugg
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deepblue
Member
- Dec 5, 2011
- 56
Another option... a couple of these puppies...
Powerbuilt 640912 All-In-One 3-Ton Bottle Jack with Jack Stand
View attachment 23262
Powerbuilt 640912 All-In-One 3-Ton Bottle Jack with Jack Stand
View attachment 23262
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Wahugg said:
Back in 2005 I'm sure that would be fine. However technology has changed and im sure flushes have been proven to work and clean the filter just as effectively as changing it. Else I'm sure dealers wouldn't be trusting the method.
Sparky said:
Anyway... the fluid smelled a little burnt and was brown. Been reading a bunch of articles by mechanics and they say a flush is recommended (using the proper equipment) if it's gotten to that stage. If you have been keeping up on fluid and filter changes every 30k which only removes 1/3 of the fluid then that's preferable. I never said I liked what I got done but I thought it was necessary. Next year I will get a shop to drop the pan and change the filter. I'm just glad I got all the bad fluid out.
AtlWrk
Member
- Dec 6, 2011
- 674
CaptainXL said:
I think you buried the lead on this one. Burnt/brown fluid absolutely needs to replaced and a (forward) flush is perfectly fine way to do it.
I'd say 99% of transmission maintenance and longevity is having healthy fluid in there. Can you find out exactly what the chemical treatment was that they used for the first few quarts?Dropping the pan does let you inspect it for abnormal debris and the magnet won't catch clutch friction material. It is true that some new vehicles have no service requirement for the trans filter but our manuals have not changed, the filters have not changed and flushes have not changed. It is a messy job but given that it's a 50-100k interval most will only have to do it every couple of years.
Fun math: assuming 5 new qts per pan drop and 11 qts total capacity:
1 drop = 45% new fluid
2 drops = 70% new fluid
3 drops = 84% new fluid
4 drops = 91% new fluid
FWIW it is physically impossible to back-flush the filter on the 4L60E. It is connected directly and only to the input of a positive displacement pump so worries about dislodging filtered debris from the filter are unfounded. (separate issue from post-reverse-flush failures)