Whine/Squeal consistent with RPM change (Revisited thread see last post)

[PProph]

03 TB LTZ

Hi all, I was just driving home from a run to Superstore and I noticed a "whine" (best thing I can think of to describe it cause at first I thought it sounded like a distant siren) coming from up front. I'm pretty sure this just started, and it's not super loud. Of course it was like 9 pm and it's cold out and I'm lazy, so I'm gonna look at it tomorrow. Problem is we were planning on leaving for a long roadtrip tomorrow (9 hrs to Banff), what better time to have an issue like this pop up. So anyways, I've obviously narrowed down the noise to being something along the serpentine belt loop, whether it's the belt itself or one of the components along the way. I'm not sure that it's the belt as it looks fine, of course I'll take it off and have a closer look.

As per the advice in this thread (http://gmtnation.com/f24/belt-squeaking-1024/) i will also spin the wheels/pulleys and see if there is anything unusual about the any of them. I don't have a mechanics stethoscope as suggested in that thread, what's the best way for me to identify a problem?

Also expect me to return here once I identify a problem for a solution

Oh, I also happen to have a spare belt, it would be boss if that's the only problem, but I got a feeling it's something more.

I also noticed an antifreeze smell when I was checking under the hood, this isn't the first time I've noticed it. Could be related? Or something else for me to look into?

Thanks much for your help in advance!

 

[Wooluf1952]

How many miles on the truck?
Has the coolant gone down any?

 

[PProph]

About 17200 (km), I have topped up the coolant recently, always forget to check the reservoir level when it's cool.

 

[woody79]

Could be the idler pulley. Cheap and easy (5 min) fix if it is that.

 

[PProph]

Sorry meant 172000. Going to check this out right now.

 

[Voymom]

I just had my blower done about 3 weeks ago, and my blower makes a whining noise now. I'm not sure if this would be consistent to what you are hearing, but I thought I would throw it out there in case it's a possibility. I know my truck when getting on the gas has a high pitched whine/whistle, it goes away once I let off the gas a bit, I was told that it could be a hole in one of the hoses. I guess that's about all I can throw out there lol. Wish I could have been more helpful!

 

[PProph]

173000

Changed the belt, noise is still there. Topped up power steering fluid with a Lucas stop leak fluid. Noise is only prevalent after the vehicle has warmed up. I started it and didn't hear it, even after I let it warm up. Only halfway to PartSource (to buy a belt tension breaker kit) did it start up. Same thing after I changed the belt it didn't make noise until I was halfway home (this is only 5 minute drive or so). Visually the things I notice most is a slight wobble in both the rad fan and the crank pulley, both are somewhat consistent with the timing of the noise. After turned off I tried giving the rad fan a spin, it spins but it's not super free, I don't know how loose it's supposed to spin when the vehicle is off.

Ideas?

I might go into a shop pretty quick here. Need to change my oil too and sure is warmer to let them do it (I have no usable shop at the moment).

 

[PProph]

Mechanic said he couldn't hear it when he pulled it into the shop. I needed an oil change so they did that, then when I'm leaving, hey there's the noise. So I turned around and caught the mechanic outside, he listened and said that he couldn't really pin point it until the noise was more prominent, and that I shouldn't lose any sleep over it for now.
...

My girlfriend's response "Geez mechanics are like doctors".

No kidding. Anyways, gonna see if I can get a hold of my car guy tonight (haven't used him for awhile, he's usually too busy) to give a second opinion. I probably wouldn't worry about it if I wasn't planning on a week long roadtrip.

 

[Wooluf1952]

I just had my blower done about 3 weeks ago, and my blower makes a whining noise now. I'm not sure if this would be consistent to what you are hearing, but I thought I would throw it out there in case it's a possibility. I know my truck when getting on the gas has a high pitched whine/whistle, it goes away once I let off the gas a bit, I was told that it could be a hole in one of the hoses. I guess that's about all I can throw out there lol. Wish I could have been more helpful!

I had that a little over a year ago. it sounded like a supercharger.
It was one of the coldest days of the winter. Hasn't happened since.

 

[PProph]

Changed the idler pulley, noise is still there. From spinning wheels I'd have to say the most resistance I get would be from the Power Steering pulley and the rad fan pulley. That's not to say there's anything significantly wrong on those, just they happen to be a little more stiff/less free than the alternator and AC pulleys. The noise is tough to pinpoint, it's loud enough but with everything going the location is hard to nail down. Sometimes it sounds like it's actually inside the engine and not part of the accessory belt line. But if you approach it from the side it sounds like it's along the accessory line, probably somewhere in the middle, which to me kind of points to the fan. It's definitely i'd say more of a whistle or whine than a squeal, kind of like a kettle to boil.

I'm getting pretty frustrated with the whole thing and we're already a day delayed on our road trip. Any other ideas?

 

[PProph]

Hmmm, after ripping through some more info on the OS, I'm starting to wonder if this is fan clutch or water pump related, or both. Now I've never had the "tick-tick" noise that seems to indicate the fan clutch going, but sometimes I do notice that abnormally loud "whooosh" sound when driving around. This is generally closer to start up if I haven't let the TB warm up at all. I'm also not entirely sure that my rad fan ever shuts off or slows down, to my knowledge it's always engaged, and though I assume it's always in time with the water pump pulley, I guess I haven't paid close enough attention to know for sure.

Is there any way to easily test whether my fan clutch is doing what it should be? My train of thought here is that perhaps the fan is engaged a lot more than it should be and as such it's wearing out the bearing on the water pump pulley. Does that make sense?

Also as far as temps go they've been good, but about a month ago the stepper motor went on my gauge so I couldn't really tell you right now what they're at... (I've got the replacement steppers recently, my oil pressure stepper has been out since I bought the TB a year ago, just got to find time to change them).

 

[PProph]

triple post, further to the fan specifically, when the I have the engine off, should I be able to turn the fan and have it move freely? Because it doesn't move freely, it's quite stiff. Not that it takes a big effort to turn it, but I can't give it a spin and have it rotate freely.

 

[PProph]

Quad post, now with videos!

1st video, engine at start up
[video=youtube_share;PaSVZWvGkso]http://youtu.be/PaSVZWvGkso[/video]

2nd video, engine after noise has started, camera not picking it up loudly
[video=youtube_share;ackt2Af97qI]http://youtu.be/ackt2Af97qI[/video]

3rd video, set camera on the battery looking at the top of the fan while i went and revved the engine
[video=youtube_share;FE7d_FE88HQ]http://youtu.be/FE7d_FE88HQ[/video]

From the 3rd video it kind of looks exactly like the fan speed is consistent with RPM, which from what i understand may be a problem?

 

[fishguy1123]

Have you tried a mechanics stethascope? If so, sorry I missed that. I could help to pinpiont the location of the noise. Just a thought... Good luck!

 

[Wooluf1952]

You changed the idler pulley, but did you check the tensioner pulley?
The fan clutch has some friction, so the fan will turn just from that friction. That is normal.

 

[PProph]

I've looked at the tensioner pulley but the mechanic i talked to said usually if that's the problem you'll see some movement (bouncing or play of some sort) in it. Finally my car guy got back to me today so I'm gonna have him look it over in a half or so.

 

[bigytwotone]

so any news??? i think it is the fan my self

 

[Sparky]

I've looked at the tensioner pulley but the mechanic i talked to said usually if that's the problem you'll see some movement (bouncing or play of some sort) in it. Finally my car guy got back to me today so I'm gonna have him look it over in a half or so.

If the tensioner spring is worn it'll bounce, but if the pulley bearing is making noise it won't cause it to bounce.

 

[gmcman]

The 3rd video makes me think it's the water pump. Sounds like the seal and I would pull the belt off and try to hear the noise. Only do this for a brief time, less than a minute or 2 since heat builds quickly.

Fan resistance is normal but with the belt off check the water pump pulley for any play, fan appears to have some wobble. I would check the water pump sooner than later since a fan that comes out of a pump causes big time damage.

 

[PProph]

So we checked it over, today's the first time I had it up to highway speed since the noise started. Got it over and the noise was quieter, but the antifreeze smell was back and he noticed wetness below the belt towards the center, he's fairly certain it's the water pump, especially given the mileage. That's what we're gonna go with, kind of what I was leaning towards as well.

A few questions, been reading about Dexcool vs yellow AMAM, should I just go with the new yellow from a reputable brand as far as coolant goes?
I'm assuming the fan clutch should probably be replaced at this point, would make sense if it needs it to get it done while doing the water pump, yes no?
Also been reading about the failed experiment that was the fan clutch method in the TB, should I replace with one of the other types of fan clutches?

Will be grabbing the How To from the OS, he hasn't done a water pump on a TB before. He used to be a regular mechanic but has been heavy duty for the last 6 or 7 years or so, doesn't do as much backyard stuff as he used to, but definitely a guy I trust over any shops that's for sure. We're gonna do the work tomorrow night.

 

[Sparky]

After watching the vids (didn't earlier, sorry) I'm inclined to agree about the water pump now. That fan gets quite the wobble in it.

Personally, I'm probably going to look into efans if/when my clutch goes bad. Given that, if my pump needs replaced and the clutch is still working I'd just leave the current clutch on there. But that's just me.

 

[PProph]

Water pump 100%, thanks for all the replies guys! We swapped it out today, got the fan clutch too just in case but ended up not needing it as mine is still good. That fan's a PITA to get out, the shroud has a tough time getting by the rad hose connector. All done though, glad I can take that fan clutch back, those things are hella pricy. He used a scan tool afterwards to just check other stuff out says everything else seems to be running great. Which I figured, hadn't noticed anything else, but it's still nice to hear!

 

[PProph]

I figured I'd necro this thread rather than start a new one. This was one of the first things I fixed on the TB, and it's toast again. After checking some other posts out seems like a common theme to find the non delco pumps failing sooner rather than later so now I'm learned on that.

I figure my fan clutch actually is hooped this time as my fan runs in time with the serpentine belt. I don't think it's entirely engaged as it isn't doing the jet engine business, but it's consistently running. My pulley has a nice wobble to it, so at the very least I'm assuming the bearings are going in the water pump and I should just replace. I'm thinking Delco Professional for the Pump and Hayden for the clutch based on a quick forum search, this seem about right?

I don't have the same noise I had last time but the wobble is super visible, and from what I now know about all this I'm pretty sure I've identified my problem correctly. I don't know what water pump I used last time but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that I bought local and let's say economical. I wouldn't have gone to the dealer for a Delco (I see I can get them off rock auto now).

I've gotta change my t-stat too (this has been on the shelf for awhile), anything else I should look at while I'm in there?

 

[Matt]

Check your radiator hoses while your at it...also, let the truck cool completely and I mean COMPLETELY, before you start the thermostat. I let mine cool for a couple of hours and a week later, still have burn marks on my arms.

 

[mrrsm]

Check your radiator hoses while your at it...also, let the truck cool completely and I mean COMPLETELY, before you start the thermostat. I let mine cool for a couple of hours and a week later, still have burn marks on my arms.

Within the last few days... the Local Walmart had an explosion that started a fully involved Industrial Fire. After dousing the flames and in response to the enormous amount of residual Toxic Smoke and Heat filling up the vast interior of the Giant Outlet...The local Fire Departments very cleverly brought in a handful of Air Boats...and after opening up the back doors as an exit point... they tied down these boats with powerful engines and Huge Propellers at the front door areas and then fired them up and very quickly.... They managed to evacuate the huge building of all that excess Smoke and stored up Heat.

In thinking about @Matt 's safety observation... it occurred to me that this device... if placed very close to the front of the truck and run on High... might substantially shorten the waiting time for things to cool down if this item were used to unload all that stored up Engine Heat. Of course... This Expedited Cool Down should be done before anything on the Engine Is opened up... to prevent contaminating the motor innards with any Dirt, Dust and Debris that might be picked up and moved along within the Air Stream caused by the powerful fan. One other benefit is that if you have to work on vehicles in areas of the country plagued by Mosquitoes...(think ZIKA Virus here)... Using a Fan like this on a lower setting can keep you cooled down and also...Bug Free, too :

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Vornado-...-Velocity-Whole-Room-Shop-Fan-293HD/202785172

 

[PProph]

I'm still undecided on whether I'll tackle this myself or enlist my car guy, he did it last time and i have to get in touch with him anyways. Either way I'd prefer to do it indoors if i can help it. Also regarding that fan for cool down I've got an industrial strength blower for drying carpet and such, think that would help?

Also i can't believe the parts costs locally. Even with our dollar in the toilet right now it's still significantly cheaper for me to ship across the border from rock auto on all this stuff.

Thanks for the advice folks. I've never actually done a coolant drain myself, should i flush with water like the Haynes says or is there a recommended procedure elsewise?

 

[mrrsm]

Regarding Questions on "How to Test the Electro-Viscous Clutch Fan"...This is well documented from @Mooseman

http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/how-to-test-the-electro-viscous-fan-clutch.12497/

Regarding Questions concerning the R&R of the Water Pump:

http://gmtnation.com/forums/threads...ay-out-after-just-6-months.15365/#post-501283

 

[Matt]

Thanks for the advice folks. I've never actually done a coolant drain myself, should i flush with water like the Haynes says or is there a recommended procedure elsewise?

Unless your coolant is full of residue, I honestly wouldn't bother. When I did mine last week (can't remember how long it's been since I changed it last) it looked fine...still a good strong colour. I didn't bother and haven't seen any ill effects in the last week...except for the bearings in the water pump now trying to eat each other.

 

[PProph]

thanks mrrsm, I was in both of those threads before reviving my own. I'm unsure of doing the fan clutch test because I think it might be locked up. It's not full on jet engine but it's always running. I'll probably just get the parts and go at it, check things out as I go.

And thanks Matt, so I could probably just drain (as per instructions) and refill then?

 

[Matt]

I would mate. You might also want to drain the coolant reservoir and fill that too. I had some crap in there and used a turkey baster (very tedious) to get the coolant out because I couldn't be stuffed pulling off all the other stuff to take the tank out.

 

[PProph]

I lost my Bluetooth adapter for torque awhile back, just got a new one in from amazon today so I can monitor again. Notice my coolant temp is hovering from 201-206, not reaching the 210 average. Would this be the t-stat possibly sticking open? Or the fan clutch staying engaged and running the fan more maybe?

Temp is pretty consistent at least, just a hair cooler than it should be. Hot day today too.

 

[Matt]

P,

I replaced my thermostat 2 weeks ago as my original OEM one was sticking closed. The new one hovers between 201.3° - 206.6° just like yours. No need for any concern.

 

[PProph]

ah ok, I always hear everyone talking about it at 210 on the dial, but my dial doesn't work so I don't really know where it should be at. I mean I'll probably change it anyways since I bought one awhile ago (last year during the CAT replacement), but good to know that these monitored temps are ok.