Rod bearing shot? Video inside.

[Ed H]

Well screw me. I bought my '02 Trailblazer LTZ in Oct 12 with 156k on the clock. I had high hopes it would pass 200k like so many others. I drive her like a baby, but WRONG!

Please watch video. After a normal (slow) drive to work today, I start her up 2 hours later and hear THIS. She feels like she is down 1 cylinder (engine wobble / misfire feeling)

[video=youtube;WvjXBZ_XIkg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvjXBZ_XIkg[/video]

I have spent a lot of money getting this truck almost perfect (new Bilsteins, brakes / rotors, Michelin LTX M/S, water pump, front diff seal replaced, new upper control arm, Pioneer 7" DVD, changed all fluids, etc, etc, etc) and want to keep her. I am comfortable doing any bolt on (brakes, alternator, PS pumps, water pump, etc), but this appears to be over my head.

To all you experts. What is needed to tackle this job? I found very little info on the site.

If I bring it to a shop, what should I expect to pay to rebuild this motor? I called Pep Boys for shit and grins - they quoted me $7k for a fully rebuilt motor installed with warranty, LOL. The local dealer estimated $4500 to rebuild. WTF! I was thinking half that - or am I completely off base?

ANY and ALL input is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Edit - I live in SW suburbs of Chicago where NOTHING is cheap.

 

[jrSS]

Drain the oil and cut the filter see if you have metal flakes in the filter. It does sound like a rod bearing.

 

[CaptainXL]

Remove the belt and see if the noise persists. If it goes away it is the water pump likely. Perhaps you got a dud.

A GM Goodwrench 4.2 motor is around $4000.

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/-6-cyl-Engines-C611.aspx

My local dealer has a 5.3 with harness, accessories,PCM, minus exhaust after headers for $6000

On a side note I got done talking with my buddy who rebuilds engines and he just got done doing 3 of these. The hardest part is shrinking or honing out the cylinder liners. I believe he said they are around $1600 to rebuild yourself. This includes a new camshaft pistons and head.

 

[MAY03LT]

What is needed to tackle this job? I found very little info on the site.

Well it's hard to condemn something over the internet. I hope CaptainXL is right. But let's just say it's the worst case scenario and it does need a motor. Here's a good thread where some great people teamed up to do a DIY motor swap to help another member out. There's also a video of his noise in that thread. It's a long read but it will give you an idea as to what is involved.

http://gmtnation.com/f24/end-8327/

This way is 100% not DIY friendly but this is the method that a shop used when they did Boricua SS's engine swap. And probably the way that I would do it at my day job.

[video=youtube;YSukLMLZy48]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSukLMLZy48[/video]

 

[Ed H]

I am convinced it's a bearing. What sucked was driving her gently at speeds below 45mph for about 10 painful miles home.

I appreciate input or pros / cons on next steps. Options appear to be a crate motor, used motor, or having this one "rebuilt" at a shop. My fear about having it rebuilt is they might miss something like debris in heads, or they don't replace or turn the rod / crank if needed. Who knows...

It's a tough one. What would you do if this was your truck and money was (extremely) tight? Note that is why I bought a 2002 to begin with.

Edit - MAY03LT - I posted this before seeing your post. Will review now.

 

[CaptainXL]

I am convinced it's the oil filter you are using or a bad water pump. See I can do that too.

It's not time to quit yet.

Did your oil pressure light come on? If not it would be a good idea to check oil pressure. Any fluctuations or low oil pressure at idle would confirm your suspicions.

There is a TSB from GM that states that low oil pressure can result from using a non-ACDelco filter. I know this sounds ridiculous but it would be worth a shot to change the oil, inspect it for metal and install a new ACDelco PF-61e filter in the mean time. You might beat the odds.

You need more proof than a gut feeling.

Some people have had bad bearing noises worse than that and it turned out to be the water pump. Again check oil pressure to be sure.

 

[jimmyjam]

watching that video, first reaction is that its definitely a bearing

but then i read, you drove 10 miles like that? dash isn't lit up like a christmas tree, low oil pressure light on?

depending on whats broken, you can realistically get an engine rebuilt for ~$2k and another ~$500 to take it out/put it in with fluids and whatnot, but you have to do your homework and fine a shop that isn't a rip off.

 

[hockeyman]

[video=youtube;YSukLMLZy48]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSukLMLZy48[/video]

Damn! ...and I thought replacing the spark plugs on my old 4th gen Camaro was an involved job!

 

[gmcman]

Damn! ...and I thought replacing the spark plugs on my old 4th gen Camaro was an involved job!

My buddy had a 97 I believe T/A and needed plugs.....I think it's the only time I told him I didn't have time to tackle that job.....what a PITA, mainly since I don't have a lift.

 

[Ed H]

Mechanic confirmed - rod bearing. Now we search for a motor. He hasn't had any luck finding a motor with respectable mileage. I thought the bone yards around Chicago would be full of motors, and they are, with 120k+ miles. Time to widen our search area, or hope a new donor arrives. This really sucks.

 

[CaptainXL]

Why do you need a new motor? Just put in a new bearing. Does an oil analysis show iron or does a visual inspection show complete wear through to the cap? Did the mechanic show you the oil filter cut open with bearing material or iron metal in it? How did he prove this too you?

Rod bearings are fixable, crank bearings can really screw up things.

And you don't need a new motor, worse case scenario is that you will need a crankshaft, bearings and cylinder sleeves and rings. Basically a rebuild.

 

[Ed H]

Note - He did not pull the motor yet. This was his diagnosis by drive, ear, etc. Instead of saying "mechanic confirmed - rod bearing", I should have said "mechanic recommends new motor".

He suggested we find a used low mileage motor and swap it out because everything else on my motor still has 166k miles on it. We are pulling the motor either way. Note the truck has 156k miles of unknown maintenance history (before I bought it).

The CPAS (<3k miles on it) did have several pieces of metal on screen.

Do you know approx the cost of parts and labor for a rebuild? The used motor might be cheaper (if we can find one). Also, the thought of dropping a lower mileage motor (top and bottom end) into the TB does sound good.

Edit - maybe I will get one of those motors that manages better than 15mph downhill, wind at my back, on a warm day!

 

[CaptainXL]

Note - He did not pull the motor yet. This was his diagnosis by drive, ear, etc. Instead of saying "mechanic confirmed - rod bearing", I should have said "mechanic recommends new motor".

Mechanic could be an idiot. I would get another opinion or two. You might be spending a lot of cash. Or you might consider selling the shell and getting a loan for a newer model. Like a 2006+. For the rest of us always get a warranty on used vehicles.

 

[gmcman]

Mechanic confirmed - rod bearing. Now we search for a motor. He hasn't had any luck finding a motor with respectable mileage. I thought the bone yards around Chicago would be full of motors, and they are, with 120k+ miles. Time to widen our search area, or hope a new donor arrives. This really sucks.

We all would like to know how this was confirmed...only to help you out. You could possibly just pull the pan and install fresh rod bearings if the crank journals check out. These engines make all kinds of racket when other components go bad.

I'm not exaggerating this fact, when my water pump went bad, a cold chill went up my spine and I instantly accepted the fact I was going to need to overhaul the motor.
The knocking was just like a rod and turned out to be the water pump.

You never stated if you removed the serpentine belt and ran the engine. You can do this when cold for a minute or two.

Have you cut open the oil filter yet?

 

[dla442]

Tough call. Used motor used problems! Rebuild the one u got and hope they do it right. Crate motor and done no worries. Old car...are you going to be driving it for longer than a new purchase payment would cost..I mean cost of fixing compared to monthly payment for another and the feeling of knowing you have a newer car with less wear? U can keep your modification in old one and put in another TB. Personally, I wouldn't waste 4-6k on an 02 that has over 160k on everything else. Not even worth that much blue book. But if as easy as replacing a rod bearing then....? If one went..how was that motor treated by prior person. No sense in fixing up a cardboard box with tape when you can get another in better shape vs the cost of the fix.

 

[Ed H]

Ah, I did not post that update. Yes, I did remove the belt. The noise was not as loud, but it did not go away either. See video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reBWvMqWw1I&feature=youtu.be

I did not pull the filter because I saw metal bits on the CPAS screen and can hear / feel this motor...

I will inquire about replacing the bearings, etc. He did not pull the motor yet. We were thinking a used lower-mileage motor because it could be a simple swap. But if this motor can be easily fixed, we should investigate. Thank you.

A newer truck would be awesome, but I do not have the funds...

 

[CaptainXL]

A newer truck would be awesome, but I do not have the funds...

The engine being trashed is of course the worse case scenario. Get it out of their shop and get more quotes ASAP. Don't be a victim of unscrupulous mechanics. Don't tell the other shops what you "think" the problem is. Let them figure it out. Just tell them you are shopping around on a fix.

Assuming you don't have the money up front you are either going to take out a loan to fix/replace/rebuild the engine in the truck you have ...or take out a loan to get a newer truck.

Do you have a full time job? Usually that is all that is needed to get a used car. Maybe a small down payment as well. In the mean time learn to rebuild the engine in the Trailblazer and sell it. Then pay off a huge chunk of your loan on the newer truck you bought.

 

[gmcman]

After hearing that second video, I would go get a second oil filter and remove the one on the engine and cut the top off, this will tell the story. You may even be able to drain some from the pan holding the plug against the threads and fill a small half pint cup.

Could be a collapsed piston skirt, could be a rod.....the oil will tell.

 

[Ed H]

Get it out of their shop and get more quotes ASAP.

Good idea. Let me ask this. It maybe a loaded question, but if I baby it and keep the rpms down, how long could I drive this motor? It's gone ~15 miles so far... I do not want to lock it up.

Here are some personal facts so you know where I am coming from. I am driving a (broken) 02 Trailblazer LTZ that is mint inside / out except for the motor (ha ha), one tiny rust spot on tailgate, and a drivers heated seat that only heats my back. My wife is driving a 99 Montana minivan. 88k miles. Mint inside and out. My toy is a 94 Formula Firebird (heads, cam, headers, gears, etc), 78k miles, mint inside and out. The firebird is my daily driver again while the truck is down, which isn't all bad. I drive ~8k miles a year (<10 miles from work) and the wife about ~6k (grocery getter). Our cars last. I made an idiot move by buying a TB with 156k miles, but the price was right (<$5K) and the interior / exterior were in great shape. It was supposed to last another 50k miles....

I have a steady job, a little money in the bank, but credit cards balances that are my #1 priority to pay off. I will not take on a car payment until the credit cards are gone. If / when I do, it will be a car for the wife. She has driven the Montana since 01 and deserves a new ride.

I can repair / replace any bolt-on, accessory, brakes, stuts, etc, etc, but "inside" engine work is currently beyond me. Not that I can't do it, but the fact I have not. I helped with heads / cam, but nothing on the bottom yet. I do not have all tools needed either, which can be expensive...

I just want to fix the truck so I have a reliable ride, can pull my boat from storage asap, and do some fishing!

 

[Ed H]

I will check the oil and filter and report back.

 

[gmcman]

The problem is if the rod bearing is bad, prolonged driving can hammer the crank journal beating it into an egg shape then the motor may as well come out. Best to figure it out and not drive it if all possible.

 

[Ed H]

Rod bearing failure confirmed. There was metal everywhere (oil filter, oil, CPAS screen). I do not know what caused the failure, nor do I care at this point. I chose to have a used motor (42k miles, certified) installed. It is at the "shop" (a GM mechanic with a 4 car shed that does side work) right now.

Great guy. He moved my plugs, water pump, and throttle body (all brand new) to the "new" motor. He also repaired a broken exhaust manifold bolt on "new" motor, installed a new thermostat, and cleaned it up like new.

Both end links were shot (I knew this, but he didn't), so he is replacing those as he puts her back together. $20 installed. That was desperately needed too.

I'll let you know how she runs in a few days. I CAN'T WAIT!

 

[Ed H]

I picked her up today!

Runs great, strong, and the motor is extremely quiet. Unreal.

The guy that did the swap mentioned "it appears the pan was pulled on your motor" - meaning the old motor. Makes me wonder if the motor spun a bearing before and was fixed on the cheap - then sold. I don't think I mentioned earlier that I found long stringy black boogers on the CPAS screen the first time I pulled it and a couple smaller boogers the last time (when checking for metal). It makes me wonder if that wasn't engine restore snake oil the previous owner added to quiet things down before he dumped it.

In any case, I am extremely happy. It is so nice to have the truck running again. It's been ~5 weeks!

 

[c good]

Congrats on getting it back on the road. Sounds like the previous owner knew of the problem and just patched it up to get it sold. What did it end up costing you for the engine and the labor to R&R? (if you don't mind me asking )