Problems pulling in to parking spots....

[GMDUDE2003]

So a day or so ago I was stopping at the girlfriends office to get some stuff out of her car. When I noticed I was having problems turning at low speeds, mostly when I pull into lets say a parking spot or another tighter than usual turning radius. At first I thought steering pump, so I checked fluid, right at the fill line....so I topped her off. Still persistent and also happens while backing up while turning. It's as if the car slows down on it's own and it struggles to accelerate as you pull into the spot and will spin tires to move or turn...Could the all wheel drive have problems ? It's new to me compared to having 4x4. And no codes or trouble lights either. And being a 2009 should it carry some warranty left ? Thanks guys.

P.S. she has 52,000 some miles

 

[The_Roadie]

Saabs may be in warranty trouble because they were orphaned. Call any number you can find for Saab or GM. You have a classic problem of sticky clutches in the transfer case. The fluid change interval is a surprisingly short 50K miles. Your transfer case may be low due to a small leak, and you should get that checked out ASAP. It could also be a problem with the TCCM (transfer case control module) or the encoder motor that controls the clutch positions.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Saabs may be in warranty trouble because they were orphaned. Call any number you can find for Saab or GM. You have a classic problem of sticky clutches in the transfer case. The fluid change interval is a surprisingly short 50K miles. Your transfer case may be low due to a small leak, and you should get that checked out ASAP. It could also be a problem with the TCCM (transfer case control module) or the encoder motor that controls the clutch positions.

Yeah exactly what I didn't wanna hear, but knew it was gonna happen. Thanks Roadie.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Saabs may be in warranty trouble because they were orphaned. Call any number you can find for Saab or GM. You have a classic problem of sticky clutches in the transfer case. The fluid change interval is a surprisingly short 50K miles. Your transfer case may be low due to a small leak, and you should get that checked out ASAP. It could also be a problem with the TCCM (transfer case control module) or the encoder motor that controls the clutch positions.

With in realistic theory, are these similar to the diffs that were on my Envoy ? By that I mean say it needs pulled, would it be as difficult as the 2003 Envoy with the 4.2 ?
And it just skated by the factory warranty...4 years or 50,000 miles

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Oh and another thing, the Encoder motor that comes up on Rockauto is labeled as Transfer case motor....

DORMAN Part # 600904

A-1 CARDONE Part # 48102

Just in case want to make sure it's correct, gonna change the Transfer case fluid tomorrow.

 

[The_Roadie]

Gotta be careful. There are two encoder motor options. The 7-pin version is for the NP226 transfer case, the one with the low range and the mode selector switch. I think the Saab may have AWD, not 4WD, and that's the NP126 transfer case and needs a 5-pin encoder motor. The difference is the brake solenoid added for safety to the NP226 TC.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Gotta be careful. There are two encoder motor options. The 7-pin version is for the NP226 transfer case, the one with the low range and the mode selector switch. I think the Saab may have AWD, not 4WD, and that's the NP126 transfer case and needs a 5-pin encoder motor. The difference is the brake solenoid added for safety to the NP226 TC.

Yes it's AWD, good looking out. I will have more info tomorrow when I change the fluid......

 

[GMDUDE2003]

I double checked, both part options are 5 pin connectors.

 

[The_Roadie]

Make sure you catch and measure the amount of fluid that comes out. And check for contaminants that could be clutch fragments and especially shiny bits.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Make sure you catch and measure the amount of fluid that comes out. And check for contaminants that could be clutch fragments and especially shiny bits.

Will do sir.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

And for reference of anybody else who comes along and reads this, this is a video of how to drain, fill our Transfer cases.


[video=youtube;qcjiWgNWD3Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcjiWgNWD3Q[/video]

 

[The_Roadie]

... this a video ...

Pretty much every single one of my fellow Mod MAY03LTs videos are mandatory viewing. :wootwoot:

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Well still tight after fluid change. Fluid was a darker blue, somewhat purple. No metal in the pan or anything for that matter. Good amount came back out, I used the wrong pan without the measurements inside it, but surely enough not to worry about a leak. I'm guessing the next step is to remove the Encoder Motor ?

And an awesome video

 

[GMDUDE2003]

I'm kinda following the steps of trial and error from reading this post here :

http://gmtnation.com/f24/saab-9-7x-stuck-all-wheel-drive-7497/

Seems to be right along with it.

Now, when I remove the Encoder Motor it's okay to drive with it off till the new one gets here right ? Seems like it would be best not to cause any damage that could occur correct ? (obviously bag and zip tie the connector for safety purposes lol)

 

[The_Roadie]

People drive around all the time without their encoder motors. You should also be able to rotate the shaft on the side of the transfer case to remove pressure on the clutches. Sorry I don't know which way. You could read this article about the NP226 while you wait: Offroadtb.com Transfer Case Operation: NVG 226 (NP8)

 

[GMDUDE2003]

People drive around all the time without their encoder motors. You should also be able to rotate the shaft on the side of the transfer case to remove pressure on the clutches. Sorry I don't know which way. You could read this article about the NP226 while you wait: Offroadtb.com Transfer Case Operation: NVG 226 (NP8)

Okay awesome, it just started storming so I'll do some light reading lol.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Finally got all the bolts removed and harness unclipped, still stuck up there....

 

[GMDUDE2003]

The Encoder Motor is off, and the problem went away. I turned the shaft to the right because it was all the way to the left, and it made it seem as if it never happened. So as it stands now gonna order the replacement Encoder Motor. All the big chain stores want $180.00 for remanufactured and $240.00 new, Rock Auto wants $124.00 new so the choice is simple lol. Hopefully in a day or so we'll be closing this thread.

 

[MDBT]

Warranties on Saab vehicles sold during GM ownership are now fulfilled through specific certified service centers. At that mileage and age your vehicle is likely still under warranty. Unfortunately they didn't reach this agreement until AFTER my 5 year/100k mile warranty ran out last September but there should still be time for you.

Press Release:
http://www.saabparts.com/en-us/usa/...s-column/2012-12/warranty-services-agreement/
Service Centers:
http://www.saabparts.com/en-us/usa/the-company/service-centers/official-service-centers-us/

The 9-7x in 4.2L I6 and 5.3L V8 flavors uses the NP126 transfer case, RPO code NP4.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Warranties on Saab vehicles sold during GM ownership are now fulfilled through specific certified service centers. At that mileage and age your vehicle is likely still under warranty. Unfortunately they didn't reach this agreement until AFTER my 5 year/100k mile warranty ran out last September but there should still be time for you.

Press Release:
Saab Automobile Saab Automobile Parts North America and General Motors Company enter Warranty Services Agreement - Saab Automobile Parts AB
Service Centers:
Saab Service Center - Saab Automobile Parts AB

The 9-7x in 4.2L I6 and 5.3L V8 flavors uses the NP126 transfer case, RPO code NP4.

Got the right part numbers and what not thank you. I called the nearest established Saab dealership who contacted me earlier and I'm 3000 miles over warranty.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Warranties on Saab vehicles sold during GM ownership are now fulfilled through specific certified service centers. At that mileage and age your vehicle is likely still under warranty. Unfortunately they didn't reach this agreement until AFTER my 5 year/100k mile warranty ran out last September but there should still be time for you.

Press Release:
Saab Automobile Saab Automobile Parts North America and General Motors Company enter Warranty Services Agreement - Saab Automobile Parts AB
Service Centers:
Saab Service Center - Saab Automobile Parts AB

The 9-7x in 4.2L I6 and 5.3L V8 flavors uses the NP126 transfer case, RPO code NP4.

I bought the truck last November.

 

[navigator]

I bought the truck last November.

if you haven't bought the part yet from Rock Auto and can't find a coupon,Rock Auto is a vendor on offroadtb and there is a link and discount code over there if you are interested. I think you get 5%.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

if you haven't bought the part yet from Rock Auto and can't find a coupon,Rock Auto is a vendor on offroadtb and there is a link and discount code over there if you are interested. I think you get 5%.

Ahh man lol, I forgot about that...I bought right after my test drive with it off. Thanks though...

 

[wesman43]

I am having this same exact problem, but only when in 4HI. Like during the winter I would go to turn a corner and my back end would swing out. I just figured that they weren't meant to be turned that much in 4HI...Time for a new encoder also? :/

 

[GMDUDE2003]

I am having this same exact problem, but only when in 4HI. Like during the winter I would go to turn a corner and my back end would swing out. I just figured that they weren't meant to be turned that much in 4HI...Time for a new encoder also? :/

Offroadtb.com Transfer Case Operation: NVG 226 (NP8)

I learned enough, by having the only lifted Envoy in Ohio for awhile lol. This is where I reference most of the 4x4 info I used. Me being an AWD could be different. I would start with changing the Transfer Case and Differential fluids first.

 

[navigator]

I am having this same exact problem, but only when in 4HI. Like during the winter I would go to turn a corner and my back end would swing out. I just figured that they weren't meant to be turned that much in 4HI...Time for a new encoder also? :/

depending on your driving surface yours is likely behaving correctly.
4HI says the front and rear should turn the "same speed" so if you have good traction you will notice it.
AWD shouldn't bind when turning like 4Hi would.

 

[DDonnie]

I am having this same exact problem, but only when in 4HI. Like during the winter I would go to turn a corner and my back end would swing out. I just figured that they weren't meant to be turned that much in 4HI...Time for a new encoder also? :/

depending on your driving surface yours is likely behaving correctly.
4HI says the front and rear should turn the "same speed" so if you have good traction you will notice it.
AWD shouldn't bind when turning like 4Hi would.

This,

the 4x4 on our trucks isnt meant to be used when you have solid traction. It steers like a bear if you do. That's how they were able to diagnose the OP's issue in the first place.

 

[wesman43]

Okay! Makes sense lol, thanks for clarifying that for me guys.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Okay! Makes sense lol, thanks for clarifying that for me guys.

No problem ! Be sure to keep up with your fluid changes though, or you won't have that winter time "bear biting traction"

 

[wesman43]

No problem ! Be sure to keep up with your fluid changes though, or you won't have that winter time "bear biting traction"

Oh yeah changed all the fluids a month after I bought it hehe

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Well finally had the time, and motivation (4 inches of snow) to get the new Encoder Motor on the truck. Everything is complete and done. It took over 3 hours to remove and 30 minutes to install lol. Thanks to everyone again. Case solved.

P.S. here is a link to the article on Encoder Motor removal and assembly.
http://gmtnation.com/content/how-change-transfer-case-encoder-motor-165/

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Well finally had the time, and motivation (4 inches of snow) to get the new Encoder Motor on the truck. Everything is complete and done. It took over 3 hours to remove and 30 minutes to install lol. Thanks to everyone again. Case solved.

P.S. here is a link to the article on Encoder Motor removal and assembly.
GMTNation - How to change a transfer case encoder motor.

Sure enough pulling into the driveway were back to binding not bad, but still enough to tighten up the steering wheel.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

Well Roadie, what are the chances of Encoder motor failure on this part in less then a year ? Fluid change before part replacement also. Tomorrow when there's light I'm gonna pull the plug on the harness to see if the Encoder Motor failed again.

 

[IllogicTC]

Well Roadie, what are the chances of Encoder motor failure on this part in less then a year ? Fluid change before part replacement also. Tomorrow when there's light I'm gonna pull the plug on the harness to see if the Encoder Motor failed again.

There is a chance I suppose, or maybe the transfer case in general is just showing signs of wear such as grabby clutches, etc. The wet-clutch transfer case is probably the biggest turd of a way AWD has ever been implemented, and it's a real shame there was no simple toggle put in at the factory to at least revert to 2HI. As an added bonus, a 2HI switch could simplify towing.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

There is a chance I suppose, or maybe the transfer case in general is just showing signs of wear such as grabby clutches, etc. The wet-clutch transfer case is probably the biggest turd of a way AWD has ever been implemented, and it's a real shame there was no simple toggle put in at the factory to at least revert to 2HI. As an added bonus, a 2HI switch could simplify towing.

I completely agree lol. It's strange right after a real heavy winter this bad boy is doing this again lol. I love this truck, but god do I miss my old Envoy's lift kit and standard 4 wheel drive.

 

[IllogicTC]

I completely agree lol. It's strange right after a real heavy winter this bad boy is doing this again lol. I love this truck, but god do I miss my old Envoy's lift kit and standard 4 wheel drive.

A heavy winter may actually have been part of the problem. If the encoder motor was of inferior quality or maybe just worn from a lot of adjusting, or again the clutches from the same deal with all the back-and-forth on roads posing less-than-ideal driving conditions. It's the exact same symptoms as before?

 

[GMDUDE2003]

A heavy winter may actually have been part of the problem. If the encoder motor was of inferior quality or maybe just worn from a lot of adjusting, or again the clutches from the same deal with all the back-and-forth on roads posing less-than-ideal driving conditions. It's the exact same symptoms as before?

Oh yeah exactly the same. I'm wondering if it was inferior to be honest, I mean the AC Delco part was $200 and change while I got the Dorman for $120 ish. Before I even changed the motor I did a fluid change and nothing really changed, but that new motor went on and boom like new.

 

[IllogicTC]

Oh yeah exactly the same. I'm wondering if it was inferior to be honest, I mean the AC Delco part was $200 and change while I got the Dorman for $120 ish. Before I even changed the motor I did a fluid change and nothing really changed, but that new motor went on and boom like new.

This truck seems to eat Dorman. Normally in the engine bay though, like the CPAS. I can't say anything in regards to encoder motor quality as I don't think I've seen anyone install one, maybe someone else will know.

 

[The_Roadie]

Well Roadie, what are the chances of Encoder motor failure on this part in less then a year ?

Very small, especially since it should light up the "Service AWD" light if it fails to move properly when commanded. I think the clutches have a problem and are transferring more than the desired 5% torque when there's no wheel slippage.

 

[GMDUDE2003]

This truck seems to eat Dorman. Normally in the engine bay though, like the CPAS. I can't say anything in regards to encoder motor quality as I don't think I've seen anyone install one, maybe someone else will know.

Well either way it's a problem that will be dealt with lol