please help! check engine light on p0030, p0137

[jr_casteel1999]

check engine light is on and truck is running fine but using alot of gas! took it to autozone and they read the code. 2 codes came up p0030, and p0137. so what do i need to replace? o2 censor right? which one? where is it located? can i remove it and clean it? please help! i run out 70 bucks in gas every 3-4 days.

 

[CaptainXL]

check engine light is on and truck is running fine but using alot of gas! took it to autozone and they read the code. 2 codes came up p0030, and p0137. so what do i need to replace? o2 censor right? which one? where is it located? can i remove it and clean it? please help! i run out 70 bucks in gas every 3-4 days.

The P0030 means the heater circuit in the front 02 sensor is bad. P0137 is an inefficiency code that may be related to the malfunctioning bank 1 sensor 1. The front o2 which should be replaced is located in the exhaust manifold. Suggest replacing that one and then clear codes. The P0137 should not come back. If it does then your catalytic convert is pooched.

 

[jr_casteel1999]

i was thinking this was under warranty. gm is supposed to have a 8 year/ 80000 mile emissions warranty. but when i called the dealership they told me i had to pay a 100 dollar diag fee. its a 06 with 75k.

 

[jr_casteel1999]

is it on the driver side or passenger?

 

[CaptainXL]

is it on the driver side or passenger?

You have a V8 or I6 engine? Please fill out all the info in your profile.

 

[jr_casteel1999]

oh sorry it is the I6

 

[CaptainXL]

i was thinking this was under warranty. gm is supposed to have a 8 year/ 80000 mile emissions warranty. but when i called the dealership they told me i had to pay a 100 dollar diag fee. its a 06 with 75k.

You shouldn't have to pay anything if the O2 sensor is covered. This goes for diagnosing as well.

From: http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/warr95fs.txt

Can Any Portion of An Emissions Warranty Repair Be Charged to Me?

If you have valid warranty claim, you cannot be charged for any
costs associated with the diagnosis or repair of the problem,
including labor charges, parts, or miscellaneous items that are
necessary to complete the repair. For example, if a manufacturer
agrees to replace a catalytic converter under the emissions warranty,
you should not be charged for the diagnosis of the bad converter, or
any pipes, brackets, adjustments, or labor needed to complete the
replacement.

 

[jr_casteel1999]

thanks thats some good info but my dealership was trying to charge me 100 bucks.

 

[jr_casteel1999]

so replace o2 sensor precat on which side ?

 

[CaptainXL]

so replace o2 sensor precat on which side ?

Let the dealer figure it out. You won't be on the hook if something goes wrong. make full use of your warranty.

But in case your wondering it is on the passenger side on the exhaust manifold. Don't screw with anything or else you could get blamed for the problem. You also want to chill out about this. If your catalytic converter is pooched then you want the dealer to fix it as well. Just be cool with the dealer.

thanks thats some good info but my dealership was trying to charge me 100 bucks.

My guess is that the service advisor you talked to isn't well versed in US federal emmissions related warranties. Talk to one of the older folk who have been there a while and are likely more knowledgeable about the topic.

 

[Wooluf1952]

You should print out the info that Captain XL posted and bring it with you just in case.
The $100 free should only be charged if there is no problem found.

 

[CaptainXL]

You should print out the info that Captain XL posted and bring it with you just in case.
The $100 free should only be charged if there is no problem found.

Obviously there is a problem or else the check engine light wouldn't be on.

I don't know why anyone would bring a car in to get it fixed if the complaint wasn't dealt with. In most cases if the problem is not found yet the complaint is still there and is tangible and/or the shop gives up then a fee is not charged. At least that is the way it should be or else you got a crooked shop. If a person drives into a shop with no complaint and the dealer sticks you for $100 then shame on you.

 

[Wooluf1952]

Obviously there is a problem or else the check engine light wouldn't be on.

I don't know why anyone would bring a car in to get it fixed if the complaint wasn't dealt with. In most cases if the problem is not found yet the complaint is still there and is tangible and/or the shop gives up then a fee is not charged. At least that is the way it should be or else you got a crooked shop. If a person drives into a shop with no complaint and the dealer sticks you for $100 then shame on you.

But, until the dealer connects the truck and reads the codes they do not know if it is a emissions code.
jr_casteel1999 had the codes pulled at AutoZone. Most dealers won't take your or AutoZones word that those are the codes being set.
If the codes are not related to an emissions problem or some other problem is causing the code the $100 would be assessed.

 

[CaptainXL]

But, until the dealer connects the truck and reads the codes they do not know if it is a emissions code.
jr_casteel1999 had the codes pulled at AutoZone. Most dealers won't take your or AutoZones word that those are the codes being set.
If the codes are not related to an emissions problem or some other problem is causing the code the $100 would be assessed.

There is no diagnosis if there is a check engine light on and the codes can be retrieved in 5 minutes. The computer does the diagnosing for you. I have never been charged for something like this where the problem is so in your face. Heck, maybe Autozone should start charging? Or maybe they should diagnose my brakes while I am over at the dealers. lol. sarcasm

 

[mrphoenix80]

Most dealers won't take your or AutoZones word that those are the codes being set.

I often take the Zone's word on the code if you have the numbers. Often they don't tell people or the customer don't remember what the code is. I just dont like the diag info they give people. The reason is you get the kid who looks and finds you have a "P0449 Evap vent solenoid circuit fault" for example and tells you to replace the gas cap. And this info is completly wrong. A gas cap for a leak, maybe? But for a circuit fault, NEVER!

AS for the computer giving you the answer. The code could be P0300 random misfire. Then what? IT don't tell you what cylinder or why. Is it cylinder 1 or 3? Is it spark, fuel or something entirely more serious? Without proper diag you don't know. And the proper diag of $100 bucks is normally ALOT cheaper than throwing parts untill you get it or worse yet. You don't get it and still have to pay for the daig to find it did not even need a part. It was a broken wire the whole time. So now you have repalced coils and injectors for nothing!

And now back to the Zone. In the spring I got one of these "kids" in there who was trying to help. But I was in full uniform(ASE master tech patches and all) and I got wiper blades. He almost insisted he put them on. His reason? because that brand can be tricky with the "special" clips they use. COME ON look who you are talking too.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

You shouldn't have to pay anything if the O2 sensor is covered. This goes for diagnosing as well.

From: http://www.epa.gov/oms/consumer/warr95fs.txt

Can Any Portion of An Emissions Warranty Repair Be Charged to Me?

If you have valid warranty claim, you cannot be charged for any
costs associated with the diagnosis or repair of the problem,
including labor charges, parts, or miscellaneous items that are
necessary to complete the repair. For example, if a manufacturer
agrees to replace a catalytic converter under the emissions warranty,
you should not be charged for the diagnosis of the bad converter, or
any pipes, brackets, adjustments, or labor needed to complete the
replacement.

I was thinking the same thing on the O2 sensor but Roadie corrected me awhile back! If you read the info in the link only the ECM and catalytic converter are covered after 24000 miles. The O2 sensor is included for the first 24000 miles per EPA's rules.
The O2 sensor can be changed without getting under the vehicle. I pre-soaked mine with PB Blaster overnight. Replacement was an AC Delco thru Amazon.

 

[mrphoenix80]

Oh yeah. If you are replaceing O2 sensors the AC Delco sensors are the way to go. I put in 3 bosch sensors and the light came back on a few days later with the same codes before I put in a Delco one and the light has been off ever since.

Also
DTC P0030 HO2S Heater Control Circuit Sensor 1
I would say it needs the sensor in the manifold. I have never had a wiring issue on one of these.

BUT
DTC P0137 HO2S Circuit Low Voltage Sensor 2
Refers to the one behind the Cat. Convertor. I would check the wiring and make sure its not something stupid. Like it came unplugged or it chafed on the frame rail and shorted out. If not you may need 2 sensors.

Conditions for Setting the DTC
The PCM detects that the HO2S 2 parameter is less than 43 mV.
DTC P0137 sets within 150 seconds when the above condition is met.

 

[CaptainXL]

AS for the computer giving you the answer. The code could be P0300 random misfire. Then what? IT don't tell you what cylinder or why. Is it cylinder 1 or 3? Is it spark, fuel or something entirely more serious? Without proper diag you don't know. And the proper diag of $100 bucks is normally ALOT cheaper than throwing parts untill you get it or worse yet. You don't get it and still have to pay for the daig to find it did not even need a part. It was a broken wire the whole time. So now you have repalced coils and injectors for nothing!
.

Im fully aware what doing a diagnosis is. But charging a customer for diagnosing something in which the vehicle owner already knows what's wrong is wrong. For instance if an owner comes into a shop and asks to get his spark plugs changed the shop shouldnt charge the owner with a diagnostic fee to see if they really need to be changed or check anything else for that matter . My point is that I already made a diagnosis for him. I have been working on gm atlas engines for over 7 years straight now and have owned four vehicles with those engines so I might know a little bit about them. All he needs to do is tell the shop to do x y and z and be done with it. Save the $100 fee for rich folk who have better things to do than work on cars. Do a job well done with honest hard work and provide knowledge to your customers so they trust you , spread the word and attract word of mouth advertising. Dont charge fees to knowledgeable shade tree mechanics.

 

[mrphoenix80]

I agree that if you ask to have plugs replaced you should not be charged a diag fee. But my point is that the computer does not magically give you an answer in 15 seconds. YOU have to diag it fully. The misconception is the computer can tell you every thing instantly and that is a line of B.S. AS a GM master tech/ASE master tech with 10 years of experince in the dealership setting I know these trucks as well as anyone. As in this case where the P0137 points to a bad downstream O2 the computer can only tell the mV reading is to low, not if the wire is shorted to ground because it rubbed through on the frame rail. Without the truck in front of you and measurements at hand you can not fully diag the issue. The best you can do is give advise judging by what the other person is telling you.
On the other hand you also get the customer in the door who says replace my plugs because my truck is running rough. So I do and it don't fix it now he is pissed at me becuase what he told me to do did not fix his issue. So there are many times I do the diag for free. Then I go to my writer and say "look the plugs are not the issue it really needs an injector flush because the #6 injector is not flowing correctly causing his misfire"

 

[CaptainXL]

On the other hand you also get the customer in the door who says replace my plugs because my truck is running rough. So I do and it don't fix it now he is pissed at me becuase what he told me to do did not fix his issue. So there are many times I do the diag for free. Then I go to my writer and say "look the plugs are not the issue it really needs an injector flush because the #6 injector is not flowing correctly causing his misfire"

Since when does a mechanic speak directly with the customer at a dealership?

Ok, im game. lets say they do where you work.

In these circumstances where the customer gives you a twofold questions. Such as what you put forth. The customer wants you to change the spark plugs. Ok fine I will do that. And then adds a qualifier to the statement that it is running rough. At that point you have the upper hand and can further probe the customer and let them know that changing the plugs might not fix it without a proper diag. At that point you ask the customer if they understand? Are you making it clear what troubleshooting and costs might be involved? Sounds like a gaffe in the way quotes are written up where you work.

 

[mrphoenix80]

I have worked in 3 seperate dealerships over the years. And in each of the places I often speak with the customer directly. It allows me to get a better understanding of the issues we are trying to fix. If they don't allow this where you go might I suggest a different dealer who will, or maybe you did not know this was possible? All to often the service writer is to busy in his own head to pay proper attention to you and your problem. And if he does it gets lost when the fifteen explanation you give him is reduced to something like "clunk in front over bumps" or "check engine light on ". If I was going to get work done I would ask to speak to the tech.

I am not going to get in to a pissing match with you over this. I know where I work and what my creditials are.

 

[C-ya]

so replace o2 sensor precat on which side ?

But in case your wondering it is on the passenger side on the exhaust manifold.

An inline engine only has an exhaust manifold on one side.

 

[jr_casteel1999]

thanks guys alot of good info here. thing is im tore up on what to do. i have a big choice to make on this and i cant figure out which is going to be the cheapest. i dont have much money at all. living paycheck to paycheck. what would you guys do?

 

[jr_casteel1999]

i understand the p0030 code but the one that makes me uneasy is the p0137. if it was just the p0030 i would assume to just replace the front o2 sensor but this other code has me wondering if it could be something else.

 

[mrphoenix80]

Start with the O2 in the manifold for the P0030. Then make sure you check the post cat O2 and make sure its nothing stupid like it came unplugged. Also check the wires where they go over the frame. You may find an easy repair to make for the P0137. If not unfortunatly you will need a second O2 sensor.