P0014, engine knock and overheating?

[TonyT]

A few hours ago I got a P0014 while driving in the big city traffic but I was two hours drive from home. Then I heard a not so nice noise while on the highway which I thought was the alternator but I was 45 minutes from home. I parked at home, took a bathroom break and now the noise is a fairly loud knock at idle. I'm going to have a few mechanic friends visit and see if it sounds expensive. Which it does.

Judging from the noise while on the highway I thought it might be the alternator so once I got home, had a quick bathroom break and started measuring temps while the motor was stopped. I figured what the heck I got this nice thermometer. The alternator was at 170F along with with the body of the engine. However the metal on the coolant where it exits the engine to the upper rad hose was reading 230. When I plugged in my ODB2 reader it was reading 210.

Then I started the engine and now I'm hearing a loud knock. This ain't no alternator noise. <sigh>

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Added later: So I started the engine several times to shift the fan belt around as per my friends suggestion. The knocking noise started up for three for four seconds and then went away. The engine noise was then normal. The second time I started it the knock was there for about two seconds and then normal engine noise. The third time it knocked once and again went to normal engine noise. In my utter ignorance I suspect a main bearing is going to keep knocking and not stop like that.

I checked the oil level and it was fine. It's at 97% of oil life according to computer so needs replacing very soon.

 

[Playsinsnow]

Should keep you busy until the gurus chime in...


http://gmtnation.com/f24/p0014-code-7066/


http://gmtnation.com/f25/p0014-p1345-please-look-440/

Sorry all I got right now. Doesn't sound good. How many MILES on it?

 

[TonyT]

How many MILES on it?

Yeah, I saw those postings. But given that a new engine is a possibility at this point I'm not even going to worry about the P0014 at this point. I mentioned it more in case it was a clue as part of something else.

Vehicle has 190,000 kms so about 120K miles.

I'm thinking that running at 230F is probably not a good thing which was caused by a faulty sensor which I previously complained about to the mechanic. But it's kinda funny too because the engine doesn't get past 212F on the metal to the rad hose until it's been highway driven for a half hour.

 

[CaptainXL]

My guess is that the water pump went out. It will make a fair deal of racket when it's gone. With the engine cold, remove the belt and then run the engine for a few seconds. Listen to see if the noise is gone.

 

[TonyT]

Mechanic friend said "Check the fan belt for missing piece of grooved inner layer. Usually happens after winter. Inner layer cracks from going backwards over tensioner pulley and piece falls out. Sounds like main bearing knock. "

Added later: The belt was replaced a year ago along with the water pump. I checked it as much as I could by starting the engine a few times and running my hand along the top section.

 

[CaptainXL]

Mechanic friend said "Check the fan belt for missing piece of grooved inner layer. Usually happens after winter. Inner layer cracks from going backwards over tensioner pulley and piece falls out. Sounds like main bearing knock. "

For reference, the water pump going out sounds like a main bearing knock. We know this for a fact. Don't be fooled. All that mechanic is saying is that it "sounds" like a bearing. Doesn't mean that is the definitive problem.

 

[TonyT]

For reference, the water pump going out sounds like a main bearing knock. We know this for a fact. Don't be fooled. All that mechanic is saying is that it "sounds" like a bearing. Doesn't mean that is the definitive problem.

Gotcha.

The water pump was replaced a year ago along with the serpentine belt. The symptom then was metal squealing noise after the motor had been running for a few minutes. Mind you it could still be going bad prematurely.

Note that I went back to my original post and updated it with more description of what the noise is doing when the engine is cold.

 

[CaptainXL]

OK but you need to run the engine with the belt off for a few seconds. That will tell you if the water pump is bad. Highly doubtful it's a main bearing if the noise is coming and going.

A repeat bad water pump is not unusual. A dishonest shop would install cheap parts and charge you for a premium part.

 

[gmcman]

As far as the temp reading you took of 230 deg I would not solely rely on that, many factors involved if it was infrared regarding emissitivity, I would trust the OBD.

Pull the oil drain and look for some glitter or yellow flakes, only need to drain a few ounces. I would start the motor again with the belt off and briefly put the trans in reverse or drive and see if the knock comes back. This puts a load on the motor and might induce an audible knock IF a bearing is going. When you removed the belt you also removed some of the load but like Cap't stated, when the water pump is going it sounds exactly like a rod bearing.

 

[TonyT]

A few hours ago I got a P0014 while driving in the big city traffic

My friend the mechanic came by. We didn't take off the belt. The repro situation is that if you put on the brakes, put it in gear, and hold down the throttle a fair bit all is well. But when you release the throttle, it knocks until it's back at idle. It also knocks for a few seconds on startup. A/C is off.

He thinks it's the timing chain or maybe the tensioner? Any comments? What's the book time for doing that?

Is the P0014 code an indicator as well or unrelated?

 

[gmcman]

My friend the mechanic came by. We didn't take off the belt. The repro situation is that if you put on the brakes, put it in gear, and hold down the throttle a fair bit all is well. But when you release the throttle, it knocks until it's back at idle. It also knocks for a few seconds on startup. A/C is off.

He thinks it's the timing chain or maybe the tensioner? Any comments? What's the book time for doing that?

Is the P0014 code an indicator as well or unrelated?

For reference, the water pump going out sounds like a main bearing knock. We know this for a fact. Don't be fooled. All that mechanic is saying is that it "sounds" like a bearing. Doesn't mean that is the definitive problem.

OK but you need to run the engine with the belt off for a few seconds. That will tell you if the water pump is bad. Highly doubtful it's a main bearing if the noise is coming and going.

A repeat bad water pump is not unusual.

You need to remove the belt and see if the knock remains. Then you need to engage the trans with the belt removed to load the engine to confirm or possibly dismiss a bearing.

Sorry to be frank but your friend is telling you one thing and we are telling you another. We have been through this many times here and believe me the water pump goes knock, knock when it fails not squeal, squeal like most pumps. If we're wrong then so be it but don't tear down a tensioner without taking 20 seconds to remove the belt.

 

[CaptainXL]

P0014 is more than likely a stuck CPAS or wiring issue, or oil in the CPAS connector. I would also check for a loose Camshaft Position Sensor hold down bolt.

 

[TonyT]

You need to remove the belt and see if the knock remains. Then you need to engage the trans with the belt removed to load the engine to confirm or possibly dismiss a bearing.

Sorry to be frank but your friend is telling you one thing and we are telling you another. We have been through this many times here and believe me the water pump goes knock, knock when it fails not squeal, squeal like most pumps. If we're wrong then so be it but don't tear down a tensioner without taking 20 seconds to remove the belt.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. It's just that he's real busy right now in his personal life and I didn't want to take much of his time. I thought I'd post the repro symptoms in case this was a clue for anyone along the lines of "Ah, in that case it's .... " I'll take it to a mechanic he recommends as soon as I can get in and get them to diagnose and fix it.