New Oil Capacity

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
Hey everyone! I like the new site (previous OS member).

So it has been about 2-3 weeks from when I had installed a Amsoil BMK23 dual remote bypass kit.

The reason why I got it is because I drive 6K miles per month. Since I drive that much (school, work, girlfriends house and second job delivering pizzas) I have to changed the oil every month. Hopefully not anymore (depending on oil tests).

No leaks, same oil pressure indicated on the dash gauge. But my problem is I don't know what my new oil capacity should be. And having that yellow tip dipstick doesn't help.

I have two filters installed. One is a Eao 26 which measurements are 3.66" in diameter and 7.04" in height. When I pre filled it it held ~1 quart.
The other filter is EABP100 which is 4.29" in diameter and 7.25" in height (bigger and more dense). It held ~ 1.5 quarts.

I then I also put in 1/2 a quart into the crank to make up for the hoses where 8ft were used. The total brings to 10 quarts in total. When ever I read the dipstick while the engine is idling after driving, there are small idly-bitty bubbles on the hatch marks. I don't have a radiator leak.
But when I shut the engine off then re-read, the dipstick is filled (but can't tell if it's overfilled). There is a difference if I put the hatch marks up and down. Also because of our cold weather, I get the milky residue on my oil cap that I clean off every few days.

I am using Royal Purple 5W-30. Engine is about to turn over 130K miles. The original 7 quarts had 800miles. I then added the 3 quarts and the total miles on oil now is ~1,500.

I know 1/2 a quart won't hurt but is it attributing to the really small bubbles on the dipstick while engine is running? How about a quart over? Maybe I'm way too over?

I would like to hear your thoughts, concerns and recommendations. Thanks guys.
 

navigator

Member
Dec 3, 2011
504
at 6k miles per month I would expect you could use the extended life Amsoil and Filter and get 2 mos per change.
all jokes aside but at 6k miles per month I would think you need a more economical vehicle.
I expect you are spending ~$1400 per month in fuel, $25 for an oil change should be no big drain.

If I drove that many miles I think I would become an Amsoil dealer just for the discounts for personal use.
 

djthumper

Administrator
Nov 20, 2011
14,956
North Las Vegas
I would probably start with only 9 Qts in there. If you have too much oil it will start to foam, which is likely what you are seeing from the bubbles. If you are running synthetic oil why are you not just using the change oil light to determine when to change the oil. I get 10-12K on my oil changes.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
My gas bill is approximately $750-1000 per month depending on weather and my driving habits. I have 32 quarts of Royal Purple in the garage so no spending more money on oil needed.

I've seen a Honda owner with the same filter bypass setup and go 40,000 miles without an oil change and his oil test came back great. So in the long run I think it's great for extended life. Plus I love my Envoy.

I don't use change oil light because my oil test show that my insolubles increase when I go over 4-5,00 miles. I felt that the stock oil filter was getting used up fast (depending which I used.)

View attachment 18149

All tests were with RP. First test was a PureOne Purlator, second was Mobil1, last one was K&N. I will oil sample again at 7,000 with my bypass installed.

As for the bubbles, they are there after a 30 minute drive, highway @ 70-85 mph and then 10 minutes city. Temperature gauge shows engine temp at 140 degrees F. (My coolant mix is 60 coolant 40 water). It's about 32 degrees F here in MI. But both filters are hot at touch. Bubble are only present on dipstick while engine is running.
 

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seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
djthumper said:
I would probably start with only 9 Qts in there. If you have too much oil it will start to foam, which is likely what you are seeing from the bubbles. If you are running synthetic oil why are you not just using the change oil light to determine when to change the oil. I get 10-12K on my oil changes.

I will drain out a 1/2 quart tonight and check the dipstick after my trip to work tomorrow to see if any change occurs or if there are bubbles. There is a similar install on the Envoy with slightly smaller filters than I have (He has BP90 5.78" in height, I have the BP 100 which is 7.25" in height). He claims that his oil capacity increased from 7-9 quarts http://www.amsoil.com/bypassfilters/petersmith/index.aspx

It seems reasonable to have 9.5-10 quarts?
 

djthumper

Administrator
Nov 20, 2011
14,956
North Las Vegas
seanpooh said:
I will drain out a 1/2 quart tonight and check the dipstick after my trip to work tomorrow to see if any change occurs or if there are bubbles. There is a similar install on the Envoy with slightly smaller filters than I have (He has BP90 5.78" in height, I have the BP 100 which is 7.25" in height). He claims that his oil capacity increased from 7-9 quarts AMSOIL.com - By-Pass Oil Filter: 2002 GMC Envoy 4.2L Gasoline Engin

It seems reasonable to have 9.5-10 quarts?

Sounds reasonable. If you still get bubbles then you may want to make sure air is not being sucked in at any of the connections.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
I have no leaks at any of the connections (believe me I check every other night). Would it still indicate air leaking into the system?
 

djthumper

Administrator
Nov 20, 2011
14,956
North Las Vegas
You could possibly be sucking air. Have you checked the rail where the filter use to be to make sure there is no oil up there? Honestly I think it is just slightly foaming
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
I may have missed it, but the original capacity is 7 qts. with the filter.

If you are only using the two new filters, you need to subtract the 1/2 quart from the OEM filter.

That should bring you down to about 9.5 qts.

You can fine tune the amount as the oil gets darker and shows up better on the dip stick.

Also, I agree with djthumper, if you have an air leak on a suction connection, it probably won't show up as a leak.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
Yeah, no leaks where the filter was either. Everthing is bone dry from what I've seen. But maybe the gasket is not seated well? I know I can't spray something there to show leaks. Any way to find a sucking in air leak besides pulling it all apart? Everything has thread sealant and anti-seize.

By the way, here are pictures of my dipstick while engine is running, one for each time I wiped and then dipped in... as you can see there are bubbles present or foam...

View attachment 18151
View attachment 18152
View attachment 18153

I know you can't check the level while engine runs but no two times aren't consistent.
 

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Mark20

Member
Dec 6, 2011
1,630
Changing direction a little but I learned to check oil when warm but the engine not running. Usually I give it 10 minutes to drain back down to the pan. Have I been doing it wrong all these years.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
Mark20 said:
Changing direction a little but I learned to check oil when warm but the engine not running. Usually I give it 10 minutes to drain back down to the pan. Have I been doing it wrong all these years.

Yep, that is the correct way to check. The amsoil dealer I bought my kit from told me to check the level after the engine cools overnight. :crazy:

May I ask, what kind of dipstick do you have and do you have somewhat of a hard time reading it? I think using a light source and shining it might be the trick.
 

Mypetropig

Member
Dec 29, 2011
226
Mark20 said:
Changing direction a little but I learned to check oil when warm but the engine not running. Usually I give it 10 minutes to drain back down to the pan. Have I been doing it wrong all these years.

:iagree: , you may be getting the bubbles just because the engine is running and no consistency because the dipstick seldom comes out the same every time.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
Anyone else has bubbles when checking their dipstick while engine running? So the bubbles wouldn't necessarily mean that I'm overfilled on oil? I know there could be engine damage, overheating and/or seals go out due to over filling of oil.

Here's a figure of different aeration:
View attachment 18155

There is a paper written about oil aeration by a MIT student. He used a Ford 3.0 L V6 duel overhead cam (DOHC) engine. His claim is that when the engine is filled with more oil, the % of aeration is decreased proportional to the RPM. I'm assuming that would not be the case with our engines. http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/38713/166145859.pdf

I believe if the engine is overfilled, the oil would touch the crankshaft which would cause aeration because of churning. This is what i've read somewhere...
 

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Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Re-thinking a bit:

The oil gets sucked out of the pan and forced thru the filters.

If there is an air leak, it would pretty much have to be at the oil pump pick-up. Not in your new set-up.
 

djthumper

Administrator
Nov 20, 2011
14,956
North Las Vegas
Wooluf1952 said:
Re-thinking a bit:

The oil gets sucked out of the pan and forced thru the filters.

If there is an air leak, it would pretty much have to be at the oil pump pick-up. Not in your new set-up.

If this is the case see if there is air present when you take some oil out through the sampling petcock valve. I would use something like a clear bottle so you can watch it going into the bottle.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
djthumper said:
If this is the case see if there is air present when you take some oil out through the sampling petcock valve. I would use something like a clear bottle so you can watch it going into the bottle.

I did drain some out into a measuring cup tonight. The sample petcock is on the side when the oil travels from the filters back into the pan. Could one of the filters be defective creating the bubbles and then sending them into the engine?

While I was pre filling the bypass filter before spinning it on, there was one area where a constant rate of air bubbles were rising from the seam on top of the filter where the metal was pressed in while the oil was setting in.

It did seem that there was very small bubbles rising to the top when getting oil out, but I only assumed that it was because of oil pouring out. I had the engine on while letting oil out.
 

djthumper

Administrator
Nov 20, 2011
14,956
North Las Vegas
seanpooh said:
I did drain some out into a measuring cup tonight. The sample petcock is on the side when the oil travels from the filters back into the pan. Could one of the filters be defective creating the bubbles and then sending them into the engine?

While I was pre filling the bypass filter before spinning it on, there was one area where a constant rate of air bubbles were rising from the seam on top of the filter where the metal was pressed in while the oil was setting in.

It did seem that there was very small bubbles rising to the top when getting oil out, but I only assumed that it was because of oil pouring out. I had the engine on while letting oil out.

Well I am sure you lubed the gasket on the filter so it wasn't dry. I guess the seam would be likely suspect at this point. I know you would have some bubbles when getting oil out of the petcock. They normally should be larger than what I am seeing in the pics on the dipstick though.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
I just called the Amsoil Tech support people.

Their books state that each of my filters hold 1.5 quarts of oil for each. So 3 quarts in additon to 6.5 brings it to 9.5 quarts in total. And also a little bit for hose, 10 quarts should be a good amount for the system.

But there is something causing the bubbles. I explained it to them. Their response is that that's normal and it won't do any harm if my oil capacity is correct.

I'll go to my dealer and see if I can claim the bypass filter defective and swap it out to see if the bubbly dipstick goes away.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
Dropped by the dealers house today. He said that bubbles in the oil while the engine is running is normal. Maybe a little moisture or fuel dilution but nothing damaging and is not caused by my set up. Talked to two mechanics, one who is a amsoil installer. They both said that bubbles while engine running is normal.

I guess I'm over reacting to having bubbles on the dipstick. Maybe it is normal. I did buy another dipstick on the Bay that has the metal tip with hatch marks to put me at ease. It costs twice as much as oem but the dealership doesn't know what kind they can order.

Well I know I have the right capacity and everything is working fine. I'll let you guys know if my engine goes kaput due to this. It's a good thing there's a 1 year/25K mile (it'll be up in ~5 months) warranty on the unit and to the engine, only if Amsoil decides that their product caused the damage due to defect. :frown:

Thank you guys so much for your input. This site is becoming a great place.
 

djthumper

Administrator
Nov 20, 2011
14,956
North Las Vegas
I hope everything works out then. If nothing else you have this thread to show them when you started your concerns. I will try to remember to take a look at mine to try to compare it. Maybe Amsoil runs a little foamy... I wish we had a better resolution but hey we tried. :yes:
 

n0kfb

Member
Dec 8, 2011
104
seanpooh said:
<SNIP> Also because of our cold weather, I get the milky residue on my oil cap that I clean off every few days. <SNIP>

This milky residue concerns me. You have some sort of problem. Some causes of this are short trips with the engine being fully warmed up, a clogged crankcase ventilation system, or you have a major mechanical issue with your engine (cracked block or head, or bad head gasket).

Chase this issue down, and you will likely find the cause of your other problem.

-- Dan Meyer :coffe:
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
I believe it's from the short trips in the cold weather and long idling while delivering pizzas. Its been four or five days since it last happened. Head gasket isn't blown and block isn't cracked. If they were I couldn't do 0-80mph on the highway WOT @6000 rpm. Plus my engine wear is minimal as you can see in tests.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
Just got the new dipstick in the mail, the braided steel and metal tip at the end. Oil level is ~2mm over the Full mark. It's within tolerance, so my new sump capacity is 10 quarts. I'll post up pictures of my setup within a few days and my oil analysis in February. We'll see if there is any true benefits to 3 more quarts and bigger filters.
 
Jan 21, 2012
58
seanpooh said:
My gas bill is approximately $750-1000 per month depending on weather and my driving habits. I have 32 quarts of Royal Purple in the garage so no spending more money on oil needed.

I've seen a Honda owner with the same filter bypass setup and go 40,000 miles without an oil change and his oil test came back great. So in the long run I think it's great for extended life. Plus I love my Envoy.

I don't use change oil light because my oil test show that my insolubles increase when I go over 4-5,00 miles. I felt that the stock oil filter was getting used up fast (depending which I used.)

View attachment 3102

All tests were with RP. First test was a PureOne Purlator, second was Mobil1, last one was K&N. I will oil sample again at 7,000 with my bypass installed.

As for the bubbles, they are there after a 30 minute drive, highway @ 70-85 mph and then 10 minutes city. Temperature gauge shows engine temp at 140 degrees F. (My coolant mix is 60 coolant 40 water). It's about 32 degrees F here in MI. But both filters are hot at touch. Bubble are only present on dipstick while engine is running.

your enginetemp seems to be pretty low all the post normally say gauge should be 210F note 140F will be very hot to touch
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
n0kfb said:
This milky residue concerns me. You have some sort of problem. Some causes of this are short trips with the engine being fully warmed up, a clogged crankcase ventilation system, or you have a major mechanical issue with your engine (cracked block or head, or bad head gasket).

Chase this issue down, and you will likely find the cause of your other problem.

-- Dan Meyer :coffe:

I don't get any milky residue on my cap but our previous VW Jetta did all the time in the winter months.

Where are the filters mounted, how high...can you post a pic?

I'm very curious as to the routing of the hoses etc. Not assuming you did something wrong, but you could have created air pockets in the system if the filters drain down to the pan..looped hoses etc, just curious.

Are you checking the level when running because it overfills the pan on while sitting? I would think the oil would be all over the dipstick when running.
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
navigator said:
all jokes aside but at 6k miles per month I would think you need a more economical vehicle.

I want to say that at about $3.50/gal that's not a bad idea. Of course to each his own and I would love to drive my Envoy if I did what you are doing.

A car with 40 MPG would save you $700 a month@ 6K miles/month. Early 2000 Civic's with manual will do this and some hit 50 mpg on the hwy.

Just throwing this out to be friendly, not to bash your intentions. I would surely feel safer in any GMT 360 platform over a sardine can though.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
Enderbygrandpa said:
your enginetemp seems to be pretty low all the post normally say gauge should be 210F note 140F will be very hot to touch

Yeah, I know the engine temp is low, but better low then too high. My actron scanner shows 140-170 degrees F for coolant temp during these winter days and the intake pulls in 20-70 degrees F. I haven't throw a code and it still drive wonderfully.

I think it's because I put more concentrate coolant than water when I flushed my radiator. So it isn't 50/50 mix but more like 65/35-ish. I haven't changed my temp sensor but it's on the list.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
gmcman said:
I don't get any milky residue on my cap but our previous VW Jetta did all the time in the winter months.

Where are the filters mounted, how high...can you post a pic?

I'm very curious as to the routing of the hoses etc. Not assuming you did something wrong, but you could have created air pockets in the system if the filters drain down to the pan..looped hoses etc, just curious.

Are you checking the level when running because it overfills the pan on while sitting? I would think the oil would be all over the dipstick when running.

I will post up pics as soon as it stops snowing around here. You guys don't want to see a snow cover envoy :big grin: I routed it the same way as the envoy in this website ->AMSOIL.com - By-Pass Oil Filter: 2002 GMC Envoy 4.2L Gasoline Engin.

And I have been checking the level with the engine on and off. The oil capacity is fine. My problem was with bubbles on the dipstick when I checked while the engine was running but I was just over reacting. It does't get all over the dipstick.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
gmcman said:
I want to say that at about $3.50/gal that's not a bad idea. Of course to each his own and I would love to drive my Envoy if I did what you are doing.

A car with 40 MPG would save you $700 a month@ 6K miles/month. Early 2000 Civic's with manual will do this and some hit 50 mpg on the hwy.

Just throwing this out to be friendly, not to bash your intentions. I would surely feel safer in any GMT 360 platform over a sardine can though.

No gas efficient car now a days could give you that take off feeling when that light turns green and you step on it with a WOT. :thumbsup:

My boss who owns the pizza place I work at has a Prius. When ever it snows he has such a hard time driving. No weight or traction in those.

Also I know a couple who own one of those smart cars. They" ran" over a raccoon and ruined the whole front end since it can't really run over anything.

Gas money is just gas money. I still get to where I have to go.
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
seanpooh said:
Yeah, I know the engine temp is low, but better low then too high. My actron scanner shows 140-170 degrees F for coolant temp during these winter days and the intake pulls in 20-70 degrees F. I haven't throw a code and it still drive wonderfully.

I think it's because I put more concentrate coolant than water when I flushed my radiator. So it isn't 50/50 mix but more like 65/35-ish. I haven't changed my temp sensor but it's on the list.

The coolant ratio only affects the temperature that it will freeze or boil. Not the actual temperature.
 

fishsticks

Member
Nov 21, 2011
433
seanpooh said:
Yeah, I know the engine temp is low, but better low then too high. My actron scanner shows 140-170 degrees F for coolant temp during these winter days and the intake pulls in 20-70 degrees F. I haven't throw a code and it still drive wonderfully.

I think it's because I put more concentrate coolant than water when I flushed my radiator. So it isn't 50/50 mix but more like 65/35-ish. I haven't changed my temp sensor but it's on the list.


A case of beer says you have a thermostat that's stuck open. We were down in the teens the other day and my truck still pulled right up to 195-200 on my scanner. Low temp = condensation not boiling off from your oil. That's the residue on the cap.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
fishsticks said:
A case of beer says you have a thermostat that's stuck open. We were down in the teens the other day and my truck still pulled right up to 195-200 on my scanner. Low temp = condensation not boiling off from your oil. That's the residue on the cap.

Then getting that thermostat changed is on my to do list when the weather turns around up here along with motor mounts, camshaft solenoid, rear sway bar bushing/links and maybe a detroit locker :wootwoot:. Thanks for the heads up guys. There won't be any harm in leaving it in for a little while I presume. None has presented itself so far since water wasn't detected in the oil analysis, just a cold little engine.
 

fishsticks

Member
Nov 21, 2011
433
seanpooh said:
Then getting that thermostat changed is on my to do list when the weather turns around up here along with motor mounts, camshaft solenoid, rear sway bar bushing/links and maybe a detroit locker :wootwoot:. Thanks for the heads up guys. There won't be any harm in leaving it in for a little while I presume. None has presented itself so far since water wasn't detected in the oil analysis, just a cold little engine.


A "cold" engine will run rich. Your cat converter life will be shortened by running it that way for extended periods.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
fishsticks said:
A "cold" engine will run rich. Your cat converter life will be shortened by running it that way for extended periods.

Oh... no wonder my oil is getting fuel into it. Well I stopped by my dealership to order a new thermostat and a ECT. Thanks for the heads up guys. On the side note of milky residue on the oil cap, none so far for ~two weeks now.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
I changed the thermostat last night (without removing the alternator :no:) along with the camshaft position actuator solenoid. Temp gauge is back on the normal operating temperature. It wasn't open but there is a gasket on the inside which was damaged. The new thermostat doesn't have that gasket so I guess they redesigned it. Again guys, thank you for your input and helping me out.
 

seanpooh

Original poster
Member
Jan 24, 2012
461
Just an oil update for you guys. There is just a slight trace of fuel in my oil ever since I changed my thermostat. That concludes that a colder engine does indeed use more fuel. My oil at 7,200 miles looks the same if not better than my analysis at 5,000 miles. A duel bypass filter is a benifit.

Two days ago I changed out my motor mounts, CV joints, upper control arm bushing and lower control arm support. At this moment the dealership is aligning my wheels since Beltire "claims" that my caster cannot be adjusted. :hissyfit:

Enjoy the report.

View attachment 20586
 

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