LTX m/s vs Grabber HTS 245/65/17

Playsinsnow

Original poster
Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
So after 63k+ miles on my Fuzions XTi's (50k tire, all 4 were $500 out the door) I am finally buying some new tires. Looking at General Grabber HTS for $570 and Michelin LTX m/s for $910 out the door for all four. Besides saving enough for HD's shocks up front- is there any reason I should purchase the Grabbers over the LTX's? 245/65/17. Father in law has the grabbers on '05 EXT, (hence my hesitation! lol) and likes them. I've wanted the Michelins for ever. Please don't recommend a different tire than these two. I've narrowed it down to just these two based on everything I've read and want. Just wondering if I should choose the grabbers over the LTX's for any reason(s) other than cost. FWIW I've only put on 20k miles on in last two years, however do drive out west, >1000+miles one way, to go play in the snow. :biggrin:

Ive read the reviews/surveys on tire rack among a few other places, but does anyone know from experience where the grabber excels over the LTX's, or vice versa? I treat my tires kindly and want them to last as long as some have reported. I rotate on every oil change with my TB...Thanks in advance! Tires are at the wear bars so they will be replaced in a few hours. Just stalling a lil :confused:
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
My Envoy came from the factory with Michelin's (not the LTX). When I needed new tires I went with the Gen. Grabber HTS and am very happy with them.
My opinion, Michelin's are over rated.
 

Playsinsnow

Original poster
Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
I've heard before Michelins are over rated but do not recall that ever being said about the LTX's. I found a competitor that'll put the LTX's at about 850 for all four. Tread life is main concern, has anyone had or heard of the Grabbers not making it to 60k miles? Thanks for the reply Wooluf, any shortcomings of the Grabbers you've experienced?
I just may go straight to the store after and pickup front shocks with the $$not spent on the Grabbers hts
 

Playsinsnow

Original poster
Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
Went in going for the Grabbers but after the salesman wanted a few more $ for a warranty if he cut the price of it and I said I might pay more if he cut the price for the LTX's. $850.00 out the door. Im happy, also it's going to rain and snow this weekend.
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
I've had no problems or regrets with the Grabbers.
IIRC, the Grabbers were a top rating on TireRack.com.
I will say (if you look below at my mileage) 60k miles would is overkill for my needs.
In the end, get what lets you sleep at night. :thumbsup:
 

Playsinsnow

Original poster
Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
Last I checked, they were 5th in my size and the ltx's third. I remember them being top rated but what happened and how did firestone become #1? I feel comfortable bc ltx is highly rated after many, many more miles on tirerack. Worked out to 179 and change a tire for ltx m/s
 

northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,315
WNY
Every tire regardless of manufacturer stands or falls on it's own merit.A Michelin in one style might be superior while another of their styles might be junk,even different sizes within a given style will rate out differently.
If you just buy based on stuff like "my grandpa always said that Uniroyals suck" you might as well flip a coin,there are good and bad tires in all brands.
When tire shopping I like to go to sites like Tire rack's and read all the data/reviews on my size tires,also while there make note of all the different places that each brand makes their tires at...it's no wonder that there is such a variance in performance and quality...Mike.
 

Playsinsnow

Original poster
Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
I agree. I did the same homework religiously and after so many positive remarks and 84+million miles reported, IIRC, I was not hesitant to buy the LTX's. The Grabbers are a great value and if money was any tighter I would have purchased em. Have to be careful though with the results on reviews. 300,000 reported milles w firestone is #1 vs 84million or even 12+million miles reported on the grabbers? Still a lot of miles but these two tires appear to stand a test of time. Perhaps the generals went down in rating because the masses bought them when they were #1 and some may have been disappointed because their 4000lbs vehicle hydroplanes a lil doing 60 or didnt stop on ice quick enough in sub zero temps.
 

pejeeper

Member
Jan 27, 2012
81
I threw a set of Cooper AT3s on my TB and they've been great so far in the NY snow and everyday dry pavement driving too.
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
OP....I'm curious as to why these are your two choices? I'm not trying to make this a huge tire debate but it sounds like you want the LTX because they are the LTX and have a following (I want them too) and the Generals because you have some time with them.

I want to assume you get alot of snow there.

How many hwy miles, minus snow, do you drive per year?

How much snow driving do you do?

After using snow tires I want to say there is no substitute. I would honestly go with the Generals and add a set of Blizzaks on a set of steelies for the snow. The Michelin is nice and I have driven on them in a Silverado and they are quiet and long lasting if you care for them. I hear they are phazing the LTX M/S out in favor of the LTX M/S2 but over some time since there is alot of stock. Knowing this I would absolutely check the manufacture dates on any LTX M/S you get.
 

northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,315
WNY
I have 18" Michelin Defenders on my wife's Malibu and like them so far,the wear rating is incredible(820).With the LTX "not so much",a 440 treadwear for such a pricey tire is too hard to swallow....Mike.
 

Playsinsnow

Original poster
Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
I have had snow tires on past vehicles and unfortunately 16" steels w snow tires wasn't in the budget again.
You're right there is no replacement for snow tires, but growing up driving with snow every year you learn a few tips to make travel easier/safer. I was looking for a tire that would hold its characteristics long term. My Fuzion xti's became noticebly soft over time. I chose these two because the grabbers are the best bang for your buck tire and the LTX's are what they are. I am happy with the LTX's. I'll let you all know if I change my mind with that.

The ltx m/s II is available at full price through some dealers. My date code stamped next to DOT stamp is 0113. So that's the first week of 2013, correct?

Treadwear rating is based on a few things. I bet the 820 rated tires are not that great in the cold, <20F. The 400s will lose tread life due to warm summer grip but hold up and handle better in the cold. My own experience tells me this regardless if on my wife's car, my college rides, or my TB. Snow tires are rated low but perform excellent! No?

Initially I was hoping someone would advise me against the LTX's bc this was the most I've ever spent on my TB at one tim:yes: Thank you for not doing so!
 

northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,315
WNY
Playsinsnow said:
Treadwear rating is based on a few things. I bet the 820 rated tires are not that great in the cold, <20F. The 400s will lose tread life due to warm summer grip but hold up and handle better in the cold. My own experience tells me this regardless if on my wife's car, my college rides, or my TB. Snow tires are rated low but perform excellent! No?

Agreed,treadwear is a product of all of the features of a particular tire.My 820 TW tires will not be good at 200mph but,I don't drive there anyway,snow traction is rated at excellent and that's good enough because I'm only in it 1% of my driving time.
We all have our reasons and there are certainly enough different tires out there to satisfy (or confuse) us all.
Dedicated purpose tires ie snow and speed rated cannot be compared to multi purpose M/S tires because they only have to excell in one area but,since you brought it up, snow tires perform excellent in snow mostly due to superior siping.
 
Dec 4, 2011
520
Playsinsnow said:
My date code stamped next to DOT stamp is 0113. So that's the first week of 2013, correct?

You are correct these were manufactured in Jan week 1 of 2013. Are they still warm?
 

Playsinsnow

Original poster
Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
Sometimes I have to cross-compare different tires. Throwing a little of everything at it. Driving all day on a clear I70/80 with snow tires will suck the life out of em. Also on the suck factor is all seasons in deep mountain snow. Pick the lesser of two evils I guess. I agree w GMCman. Had I had extra $$ I would've had the setup you suggested. snow tires do have superior siping. Also typically have a stiffer sidewall and made from rubber that stays "gummy", due to compound added to assist with cold temps, thus creating excessive treadwear faster in summer or mild temps.
just saw that Nokian tyres has an "all-weather" WRG2 for suv's that a winter tire that can handle summer driving? Developed in Finland and different than an all season...hmmm. Anyone seen WRG2 out there on the road? Nokians are special order anywhere around here. Curious if any gmt's north of the border have experience with them???

Northcreek- I couldn't help but chuckle bc earlier today I was talking about tires with my father and he said all tires suck in winter just like he does skiing (picture TB drag race losing body panels and tires down the track-that's him skiing) "skis are made for snow but they dont make me any better, how is a tire going to help if u suck at driving?!" (born/raised in KS farm)
What are the conditions for an "excellent" rating in snow for a tire, esp an all-season? 2inches of fluff? No Slush? Inch of hard pack? the snow changes as it falls and sits as does the handling of the tire. Im sure its a great tire and suits you very well, but my old man would not call it excellent! My AT's at the treadbars were "good" in "snow" in 2wd-however only bc my driving habits didnt make it worse than it could've been:yes:
 

Playsinsnow

Original poster
Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
RedEnvoyDenali said:
You are correct these were manufactured in Jan week 1 of 2013. Are they still warm?

You can imagine my relief when I saw that stamp. I didnt check em at store bc they had me out the door in 25?mins. I left the restaurant table earlier to go check the dates stamped! How old is the line you draw? Is mid/early 2012 still good? I understand the rubber aging process, but when is a 2yr shelf tire worse than a 2yr been on the road tire? Or is it the 5+yr old tires we want to avoid? I've never had a tire close to 4-5yrs- only my last set on TB.
 

northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,315
WNY
Playsinsnow said:
What are the conditions for an "excellent" rating in snow for a tire, esp an all-season? 2inches of fluff? No Slush? Inch of hard pack? the snow changes as it falls and sits as does the handling of the tire. Im sure its a great tire and suits you very well, but my old man would not call it excellent! My AT's at the treadbars were "good" in "snow" in 2wd-however only bc my driving habits didnt make it worse than it could've been:yes:

It's been said that the Eskimos have over 200 words for snow,so I guess we would be asking alot if we wanted a tire that was good in all of them.At some point you just have to get out and put the chains on:thumbsup:
 

Playsinsnow

Original poster
Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
or start walking because you bought chains for your oem wheels and not the pretty wheels that are on the car you drove up 395 in! :rotfl:

My favorite thing to say to people in Socal that learn MN doesn't allow chains: "you learn to drive or suffer the consequences"
 

Steveinfl

Member
Dec 6, 2011
62
I bought a set of lax ms2's around 5 k miles ago. Rather quiet, but more importantly no wheels spin in the rain. Can't comment on ice and snow as I'm in central Florida, but they definitely feel like they grab better than the (cheapo) Bridgestone duelers which were there previously. Time will tell if they are good to their mileage warranty.

As a side note I price checked those tires extensively and found cosco to have the best price by around 150 as well as lifetime rotation and balance.
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Playsinsnow said:
You can imagine my relief when I saw that stamp. I didnt check em at store bc they had me out the door in 25?mins. I left the restaurant table earlier to go check the dates stamped! How old is the line you draw? Is mid/early 2012 still good? I understand the rubber aging process, but when is a 2yr shelf tire worse than a 2yr been on the road tire? Or is it the 5+yr old tires we want to avoid? I've never had a tire close to 4-5yrs- only my last set on TB.

New info on tires is to replace them six years from their born-on date. So if they sit in the shelf for two years, you need to replace them after only four years of usage.
 

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