LORD help me...Brake problem 05' Silverado

[Pondscum3310]

So I have a 2005 Chevy Silverado with a 4.3L. The problem started with both front brakes locking up. Let them cool and then you could drive them for a bit. Took the caliper off after breaking the bleeder valve open the releave pressure. Put a c-clamp on it and could not budge it. Disconnected the flex hose where it attaches to the rigid line and crank on c-clamp. Fluis comes out and caliper moves. disconnected the line at the ABS pump and I get fluid out of there as well. So took MC off and it was leaking into the booster. Replaced booster and MC with new parts. Same problem. So (and I've never done this) but I bought an ABS Module from pick-a-part and installed it. Same problem. Replace ABS pump. Same problem. Bought another Module and pump from a friends friend. Same problem. Took it to a brake place. They said the calipers were bad. So I replaced calipers, pads and flex hoses then had Brake Check pressure bleed the whole system. SAME PROBLEM!!!!! So I called the brake place and asked them what they thought. He asked if I had the ABS Module reprogrammed after I installed it. NOPE! Called a place today to ask how much, $300 and they won't do it unless it's a new one. I don't mind spending the money but I am not sure that it will fix this. Any thoughts PLEASE.

 

[Sparky]

Do you have any ABS lights on the dash at all, either before or after the swap?

 

[Pondscum3310]

No. No ABS lights before or now.

 

[Eric04]

When reading the first part of your post I was thinking possible contaminated brake fluid. 100 years or so ago when I was a teen, my beater pickup did the same thing, front calipers locked up and wouldn't release until cool. Long story short, had to replace MC, lines, calipers to remedy. However, it looks like you've replaced just about everything fluid travels through so this is a real B.

 

[mrrsm]

EDIT:

If your Brakes lock up again on the Roadway...Even without your having any ABS Codes, etc... Pull out your ABS System Fuse...and after the Brake HW cools down enough to release the pads... Drive on and see if that action helps to prevent the problem from happening again.

I realize that you have already done the Brake Service... probably in line with what is completely covered in the listed link below... but if you did not Lubricate the Two Caliper Slide Pins with a Silicone Brake Lubricant.. AND ...install the Slide Pin(s) with the Black Dampener into the proper hole(s) ... one per side... Then under normal Braking...the L& R Calipers can jutter back and forth... and catch and bind up...failing to allow the Pad(s) to Release. This link shows images of the precise things to look for during re-assembly:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-replace-front-brake-pads-and-rotors-fwd

 

[Mooseman]

The ABS module shouldn't need reprogramming if it's the same year, model, etc. It's new modules that need programming. Either way, it's obviously not the cause of your issues.

Very strange problem. We've seen that here when the wrong fluid was added but yours would do that right away after replacing all the parts. And the brake place can't figure it out? I don't know what else to suggest.

 

[Tdub]

Maybe a possibility?

It kind of sounds like the master cylinder is not venting. The vent will get blocked by the slightest input of the brake pedal.

I usually do that on purpose when having to replace a brake line, caliper, or wheel cylinder. It keeps from having all of the brake fluid run out. By applying just a little brake pedal, it acts like your finger on a straw when pulling water out of a glass.

How to check this:
Drive it until the fronts lock up, then loosen the master cylinder from the booster. If it frees up the front brakes without having to let them cool down, you know the rod is out too far for what ever reason such as pedal height adjustment, or simply the new booster rod itself is not quite right. The vent could be plugged with junk, but really doubt that since it is all new.

About 20 years ago...

I was driving an old 1972 motor home through Houston, Tx. I was on my way to the west coast just to try the area out for a while. But then the motor home started to feel sluggish. I looked in the side mirrors, and low and behold, I had 2 clouds of smoke coming from each rear wheel. I finally came to a stop, and the old girl wouldn't hardly budge. After 30 min or so, she would move again, good! Then 30 min of driving, smoke again, damn! This fork in my life sent me towards home in MI, instead of through the mountains to the west. 30 on, 30 off, over and over and over again, for many hours and days. It was the worst/best road trip for a 20 year old that didnt have to be anywhere else.
It wasn't until a year later of it sitting at my folks house, that I traded it for a motorcycle, as long as I first fixed a brake leak coming from the master cylinder. So I went to remove it and when cracking loose the line to the rear, there was this old creaky noise, and the motor home rolled about an inch on its own.

I didnt know to laugh or cry. The vent was plugged up from old crap in it. 15 minutes of work would have kept me heading to the coast, but I was young, inexperienced, and kind of scared about driving through the mountains with brakes that lock up and not knowing why.

 

[Pondscum3310]

EDIT:

If your Brakes lock up again on the Roadway...Even without your having any ABS Codes, etc... Pull out your ABS System Fuse...and after the Brake HW cools down enough to release the pads... Drive on and see if that action helps to prevent the problem from happening again.

I realize that you have already done the Brake Service... probably in line with what is completely covered in the listed link below... but if you did not Lubricate the Two Caliper Slide Pins with a Silicone Brake Lubricant.. AND ...install the Slide Pin(s) with the Black Dampener into the proper hole(s) ... one per side... Then under normal Braking...the L& R Calipers can jutter back and forth... and catch and bind up...failing to allow the Pad(s) to Release. This link shows images of the precise things to look for during re-assembly:

https://www.2carpros.com/articles/how-to-replace-front-brake-pads-and-rotors-fwd

I will give it a try tonight. Thank you

Maybe a possibility?

It kind of sounds like the master cylinder is not venting. The vent will get blocked by the slightest input of the brake pedal.

I usually do that on purpose when having to replace a brake line, caliper, or wheel cylinder. It keeps from having all of the brake fluid run out. By applying just a little brake pedal, it acts like your finger on a straw when pulling water out of a glass.

How to check this:
Drive it until the fronts lock up, then loosen the master cylinder from the booster. If it frees up the front brakes without having to let them cool down, you know the rod is out too far for what ever reason such as pedal height adjustment, or simply the new booster rod itself is not quite right. The vent could be plugged with junk, but really doubt that since it is all new.

About 20 years ago...

I was driving an old 1972 motor home through Houston, Tx. I was on my way to the west coast just to try the area out for a while. But then the motor home started to feel sluggish. I looked in the side mirrors, and low and behold, I had 2 clouds of smoke coming from each rear wheel. I finally came to a stop, and the old girl wouldn't hardly budge. After 30 min or so, she would move again, good! Then 30 min of driving, smoke again, damn! This fork in my life sent me towards home in MI, instead of through the mountains to the west. 30 on, 30 off, over and over and over again, for many hours and days. It was the worst/best road trip for a 20 year old that didnt have to be anywhere else.
It wasn't until a year later of it sitting at my folks house, that I traded it for a motorcycle, as long as I first fixed a brake leak coming from the master cylinder. So I went to remove it and when cracking loose the line to the rear, there was this old creaky noise, and the motor home rolled about an inch on its own.

I didnt know to laugh or cry. The vent was plugged up from old crap in it. 15 minutes of work would have kept me heading to the coast, but I was young, inexperienced, and kind of scared about driving through the mountains with brakes that lock up and not knowing why.

I will give this a try tonight. Thank you

 

[Pondscum3310]

Ok new friends........UPDATE. Got home took it for a drive, quickly the brakes started dragging so came home and removed the ABS fuse. Let it cool down. Took it for another drive and the brakes get warm to hot but DOES NOT lock up. I drove for a good while and it never gets hotter than it does. I can smell brake smell so it's hotter than it should be. Sunday they were so locked up they were smoking by the time I pulled over somewhere safely. That was after 1/2 mile. Tonight drove 30 miles easy and warm/hot'ish but never locked up. My thinking is maybe since I did not replace the rotors and they had been so hot that maybe they are rubbing on the new pads constantly? I feel a slight shimmey when braking but not bad. I have felt much worse and driven (I was 18....lol). So what are your thoughts? Since they never locked up I couldn't remove the MC to check for booster rod adjustment. Thanks in advance

 

[mrrsm]

Forgive the harsh analogy here...But... Changing your Brake Pads while leaving in the Worn Brake Rotors is somewhat akin to buying a Brand New Pair of PF Flyers...and putting them on over your Dirty Socks. Somewhere in the Rotor Discs there should be a stamped reference that advises how THIN they are allowed to get before replacing them becomes mandatory. You have no idea how much sheer mass can be worn down on these metal platters ...enough to compromise their ability to dissipate heat.

They also tend to become easily warped and will display cracking-crazing at the EOL of their actual ability to work properly. If you use a Micrometer and measure past the edge on the platter face ...you'll take a more accurate reading of what is "missing" in thickness and determine if that loss of metal is hazardous to braking.

If this was my vehicle... I would tear down ALL of these (L) & (R) side Brake components ...and examine each one for any signs that show fresh damage since the new pads were put in... and observe for any older conditions that will nail down what is wrong. At this point...it would almost be worth removing the Old Calipers entirely...and exchanging them at the Parts Counter at Autozone for a Brand New Quality Set...and while you're at it... get some Fresh Discs, New DOT3 Brake Fluid, New Caliper Pins and some Silicone Brake Lube as well... and start all over again. I think that your are destined for having to do this anyway... and the sooner... the better.

 

[Pondscum3310]

Forgive the harsh analogy here...But... Changing your Brake Pads while leaving in the Worn Brake Rotors is somewhat akin to buying a Brand New Pair of PF Flyers...and putting them on over your Dirty Socks. Somewhere in the Rotor Discs there should be a stamped reference that advises how THIN they are allowed to get before replacing them becomes mandatory. You have no idea how much sheer mass can be worn down on these metal platters ...enough to compromise their ability to dissipate heat.

They also tend to become easily warped and will display cracking-crazing at the EOL of their actual ability to work properly. If you use a Micrometer and measure past the edge on the platter face ...you'll take a more accurate reading of what is "missing" in thickness and determine if that loss of metal is hazardous to braking.

If this was my vehicle... I would tear down ALL of these (L) & (R) side Brake components ...and examine each one for any signs that show fresh damage since the new pads were put in... and observe for any older conditions that will nail down what is wrong. At this point...it would almost be worth removing the Old Calipers entirely...and exchanging them at the Parts Counter at Autozone for a Brand New Quality Set...and while you're at it... get some Fresh Discs, New DOT3 Brake Fluid, New Caliper Pins and some Silicone Brake Lube as well... and start all over again. I think that your are destined for having to do this anyway... and the sooner... the better.

I didn't mean to offend you! I have replaced a lot on this system already and times are tight financially. Normally yes I would replace rotors when doing calipers and pads. Normal is not replacing MC, Booster, (2) ABS Modules, (1) ABS pump, calipers, pads, flex lines, drum brakes. So, are saying that you think the rotors are why the brakes are warm/hot'ish still?

 

[mrrsm]

LOL... I'm too Old and Ugly now to worry about being offended... NP there... And I'm with you about not delving into changing or replacing all of the MC, Booster, (2) ABS Modules, (1) ABS pump, flex lines, drum brakes, etc... although now... I AM curious if your Rear Brakes are also getting as hot as well.

My approach would be to look to the conventional components that actually perform the STOPPING ...first. And before going any further... I would want to look at everything on the two front wheels to get a better idea of their parts and conditions... and the Caliper Sets and Discs are primary in this case to look over very carefully ...and replace as needed.

 

[littleblazer]

So I do have to ask a question. When you did the pads, how freely did they move on the slides?

Only other thing that comes to mind is a proportion valve issue.

 

[Pondscum3310]

So I do have to ask a question. When you did the pads, how freely did they move on the slides?

Only other thing that comes to mind is a proportion valve issue.

Nicely. I don't have a proportioning valve on this one. I assume the ABS pump/Module takes care of that. I traced the brakes line from MC to each wheel and could not find one.

 

[Sparky]

The proportioning is built into the ABS block and is pre-set.

 

[Pondscum3310]

Ok, let's go about this issue a different way. Brakes start dragging 20-30 mon after I start driving. Never lock up just get really warm. Let cool down or crack bleeder valve and release pressure and the can drive and not get hot for a bit. To me it sounds like master cylinder is not letting fluid back in. Fluid get hot after driving then can't go bask in MC so starts closing calipers. Thoughts?

 

[mrrsm]

Ordinarily... I hate to bounce over to this place... but on rare occasions with an odd problem or two... it can be helpful:

https://forums.trailvoy.com/archive/index.php/t-97615.html

 

[Tdub]

Have you tried loosening the mc instead of opening the bleeders yet?

 

[Pondscum3310]

I haven't yet because they don't lock up anymore. They drag. I can't feel it much at all when I am driving but after 20-30 min they are dragging enough to make the rims hot and the smell of brake pads is noticeable. I wanted to try adjusting the booster arm but it looks like mine is not adjustable. At least not like I've done in the past which is take to MC off and adjust booster arm with pair of pliers. Mine appears to just have a rounded off rod.

 

[NJTB]

Long time ago you could purchase an adjustable rod, don't know if they still make them.

 

[Pondscum3310]

SOLVED!!!!! Well it is finally fixed and I drove it to work today to make sure. I drove it Saturday and it locked up so I loosened the MC and it released immediately. So, ordered a now booster for the same truck and they gave me one that was different. UUUGGGG This one had an adjustable rod on it. So installed drove and worked after a little adjusting. Drove it all day Sunday and to work today (43 miles one way) and not hot at all! Thank you all for your help.

 

[RROVA]

Bro I having this same problem at the moment, before I blow my money , what do you recommend first? It’s exactly the same problem.

 

[Mooseman]

Don't hold your breath. He hasn't been on here in 5 years.

You would have to diagnose your issue. If it releases the wheels when you unbolt the master cylinder from the booster, I would add shims to the studs under the MC until the push rod no longer contacts the MC piston.

 

[mrrsm]

I'll throw in the suggestion that you perform a Pressurized Brake Bleed as per the Linked Instructions and then use a Tech 2 or a Good Bi-Directional Scan Tool for the ABS Bleed Procedure.

How to Perform a Pressurized Brake Bleed on ANY GM Vehicle

I thought it would be a good idea to break out this “Pressurized Brake Bleeding Procedure” from the other Brake Repair Work involved with my 2000 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Long Bed Truck. I think this Procedure stands out from all others because it is THE Fastest, THE Easiest and THE Most...

gmtnation.com

Visit Post # 17 in this Thread and Check Out that Linked "TV" Thread ...from Top To Bottom... One of the Posters there managed to solve this problem with a Proper Pressure Bleed AND an ABS Bleed.