Extending Transmission Life

[Helikido]

I just finished installing all new front suspension, brakes/rotors, spark plugs, shocks/struts, and a bunch of other misc stuff on my 2009 Saab 97x 5.3i and driving it 1,400+ miles from CA to CO with absolutely no issues, minus one. Lately, I’ve been noticing two weird transmission shift behaviors. The car has 140k miles on what I believe is original fluid.

1st Behavior: When starting the vehicle cold, the 1-2 shift happens super firm and fast. This goes away as soon as it warms up. I think this is expected behavior with age per the forums, I believe, so I never worried much about it.

2nd Behavior: At highway speeds, the 2-3 shift is sluggish, and the 3-4 shift is ultra sluggish. It shifts, hangs, then completes the shift as if someone let go the clutch quick but not harshly. It does not slip. I’ve been cautious of this so anytime the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts happen, I let off the throttle until they complete to prevent any damage if it’s possible. I’m thinking that this issue may be a solenoid problem?

As such, I’m now thinking of doing a fluid change via the tranny radiator lines and dropping the pan and installing a new filter. In addition, I’m planning to replace all solenoids on this transmission and refurbishing all parts that I can without dropping it (can’t do that).

1. GM Genuine Shift solenoids
2. Valvoline Dextron VI/Mercon ATF
3. Transmission fluid filter & pan gasket.
4. New metal valve body accumulator pistons?
5. Should I install the Transgo SK4L60E shift kit? I just want my transmission to last don’t need it for performance driving. This kit looks quite involved to install, mainly concerned about small mistakes.

Car is completely stock and I don’t really tow with it, but I do off-road quite a bit in it and live in the Rockies of Colorado with lots of uphill, downhill climbing, especially off-road.

I just spent $3k on parts and tires to keep this truck running, so really trying my best here.

 

[Mike534x]

I'm at 225k on my 5.3 Envoy, still the original trans. Mine did pretty much exactly what yours was doing at around 185k (bought when it had 177k). I had the harsh 1 to 2 shift when cold, and the sluggish 3 to 4 shift. Changing the shift solenoids helped a bit, but didn't fix the problem.

What solved the 1-2 shift, was replacing the factory accumulator springs. I bought the original (there's two in the housing, yellow and green), and replaced the worn out plastic accumulator with a metal type- 3 by Transgo from eBay. Installing the Transgo kit is a little tricky, especially if you aren't used to working on valve bodies. I had a buddy at a shop watch me do it, because I was afraid of botching it up lol. Might be easier finding a local trans shop whose willing to do the install for a reasonable price (places near me wanted 80 to 150 for the install).

I would avoid doing a flush on the trans, I feel at the age/mileage it's best not to open that can of worms. The old clutch material circulating may be helping to keep it chugging along, but I wouldn't touch it. It wouldn't hurt to swap out the factory pan for the superior Dorman one that holds an extra quart of fluid, and has the drain plug. Maybe do a drain, and fill every 20k or so. Adding an additional aux trans cooler would hugely help too, since these are sensitive to heat.

I attached the spring part #'s and the accumulator piston below. Also make sure to get the correct valve body separator plate, and get the plastic torlon check balls to replace the factory metal ones.

 

[Mooseman]

I would avoid doing a flush on the trans, I feel at the age/mileage it's best not to open that can of worms. The old clutch material circulating may be helping to keep it chugging along, but I wouldn't touch it.

I disagree. I would replace that old fluid. My own experience in doing this has been nothing but successful. My 02 had old dark brown fluid and I flushed it using the cooler line method. Lasted me years and eventually failed mechanically (sun shell stripped). Another one was on my son's '11 Silverado with the 6L80E. That one was extremely nasty. His was getting hot and the fluid was BLACK like diesel engine oil. Full trans line method flush and several years later, still humming and running cooler.

If the tranny is failing, it will eventually fail regardless if you change the fluid or not. Not changing it would just prolong the inevitable. If it does start to slip, this additive is good at extending its useful life until you can get it replaced. One of the reviews actually says it helped with your exact 1-2 shift symptom.

Lubegard 19610 Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder Fixx, 2 oz. Red : Amazon.ca: Automotive

Lubegard 19610 Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder Fixx, 2 oz. Red : Amazon.ca: Automotive

www.amazon.ca

This has reminded me that I need some of this as my TB has been doing the harsh 1-2 shift and TC shuddering. My fluid is not that old and still in good condition so this should help. Had used it in my Caprice's 6L80E that had bad TC shuddering and stopped it.

 

[Mike534x]

I disagree. I would replace that old fluid. My own experience in doing this has been nothing but successful.

I always figured it was best not to mess with it. The consensus always seemed to be mixed, on whether it would be beneficial, or would be the cause of it failing (going off reading, and speaking with different guys). It makes sense from both sides of why/why not, but your right if it was bound to fail it would've by now.

Interesting, so there's a fix in a can that actually works?? Thankfully the combination of the transgo kit, and new accumulator/springs solved the 1-2 harsh shift. I'm definitely saving that one if the TB ever starts (thankfully its smooth as butter). I did have the TC shudder on the Envoy, right before it threw a P1870 that the trans shop fixed with a Sonnax TCC kit.

 

[TequilaWarrior]

I disagree. I would replace that old fluid. My own experience in doing this has been nothing but successful.

Add me to the list of people that suggest a fluid exchange.... (that's really what we should call it, not a "flush"). If you're capturing the fluid coming out of the transmission cooler lines and adding clean fluid (probably through the dipstick) without adding any products (labeled "flush") and without pushing fluid backwards, that is a fluid exchange... and should yield no negative results.
I did mine at around the 150,000 to 200,000 mark... been running exceptionally well since. I'm at almost 350,000 and this is reminding me to do it again....

While you're at it, change the transfer case fluid as well as front and rear differential fluids.
Personally, I would prioritize the tcase and diffs over buying "parts" for the transmission (definitely do the xmission fluid though), but that's just my opinion. If you have the same transfer case as I do (AWD but not the torsen tcase), then it will definitely benefit from a tcase fluid change and will prevent it from binding and causing crow-hop.

 

[Mooseman]

Yes, the Tcase has a relatively short 50k mile (80k km) fluid service interval so definitely worth it to save it. Diffs is also a good idea at the same time.

 

[Mike534x]

Oh wow....350k on the original trans @TequilaWarrior ???? You've got me seriously considering giving it a shot on my Envoy. The radiator is close to needing a replacement, so while I'm in there I plan to add an aux trans cooler. System capacity is roughly what, 16 Quarts or so?

 

[mrrsm]

Some additional Dialogue on the Topic of Stall Speed Features of GMT360 Torque Converters... (From TV) which is another serious consideration either when making Engine Performance Upgrades or for 4L60E Rebuilds ... much of which may serve to shorten rather than extend the life of the Transmission if abused, but still relevant to the discussion of the whole Power Train System:

Stall Converters: 4L70e - 4L60e

www.trailvoy.com

 

[Helikido]

I'm at 225k on my 5.3 Envoy, still the original trans. Mine did pretty much exactly what yours was doing at around 185k (bought when it had 177k). I had the harsh 1 to 2 shift when cold, and the sluggish 3 to 4 shift. Changing the shift solenoids helped a bit, but didn't fix the problem.

What solved the 1-2 shift, was replacing the factory accumulator springs. I bought the original (there's two in the housing, yellow and green), and replaced the worn out plastic accumulator with a metal type- 3 by Transgo from eBay. Installing the Transgo kit is a little tricky, especially if you aren't used to working on valve bodies. I had a buddy at a shop watch me do it, because I was afraid of botching it up lol. Might be easier finding a local trans shop whose willing to do the install for a reasonable price (places near me wanted 80 to 150 for the install).

I would avoid doing a flush on the trans, I feel at the age/mileage it's best not to open that can of worms. The old clutch material circulating may be helping to keep it chugging along, but I wouldn't touch it. It wouldn't hurt to swap out the factory pan for the superior Dorman one that holds an extra quart of fluid, and has the drain plug. Maybe do a drain, and fill every 20k or so. Adding an additional aux trans cooler would hugely help too, since these are sensitive to heat.

I attached the spring part #'s and the accumulator piston below. Also make sure to get the correct valve body separator plate, and get the plastic torlon check balls to replace the factory metal ones.

I have a question for you. Replacing the 1-2 accumulator piston with an aluminum Transgo one will not change the behavior of the tranny from stock correct?

What about the 2-3 and 3-4 accumulators? Don’t we have to change those and the seals on them?

I hope about my delayed hanging shifts on the 3-4 shift. How do I fix that? I do understand it may be a worn valve body, but perhaps a specific component in it?

I disagree. I would replace that old fluid. My own experience in doing this has been nothing but successful. My 02 had old dark brown fluid and I flushed it using the cooler line method. Lasted me years and eventually failed mechanically (sun shell stripped). Another one was on my son's '11 Silverado with the 6L80E. That one was extremely nasty. His was getting hot and the fluid was BLACK like diesel engine oil. Full trans line method flush and several years later, still humming and running cooler.

If the tranny is failing, it will eventually fail regardless if you change the fluid or not. Not changing it would just prolong the inevitable. If it does start to slip, this additive is good at extending its useful life until you can get it replaced. One of the reviews actually says it helped with your exact 1-2 shift symptom.

Lubegard 19610 Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder Fixx, 2 oz. Red : Amazon.ca: Automotive

Lubegard 19610 Dr. Tranny Instant Shudder Fixx, 2 oz. Red : Amazon.ca: Automotive

www.amazon.ca

This has reminded me that I need some of this as my TB has been doing the harsh 1-2 shift and TC shuddering. My fluid is not that old and still in good condition so this should help. Had used it in my Caprice's 6L80E that had bad TC shuddering and stopped it.

I don’t think my tranny is failing but the fluid is 100% going to be replaced. The fact of the matter is, these are hydraulic devices and deteriorated hydraulic fluid = deteriorated hydraulic = poor performance + lower overall life due to poorer lubrication capability.

My understanding of the harsh 1-2 shift though is that it’s due to wear to the accumulator pistons, which is a hardware issue. I might give that fluid a shot though.

I always figured it was best not to mess with it. The consensus always seemed to be mixed, on whether it would be beneficial, or would be the cause of it failing (going off reading, and speaking with different guys). It makes sense from both sides of why/why not, but your right if it was bound to fail it would've by now.

Interesting, so there's a fix in a can that actually works?? Thankfully the combination of the transgo kit, and new accumulator/springs solved the 1-2 harsh shift. I'm definitely saving that one if the TB ever starts (thankfully its smooth as butter). I did have the TC shudder on the Envoy, right before it threw a P1870 that the trans shop fixed with a Sonnax TCC kit.

No TCC issues for me it lock like a dream. But I definitely want to fix all worn parts of the valve body that I can without dropping the tranny just to prolong the life of the tranny.

Add me to the list of people that suggest a fluid exchange.... (that's really what we should call it, not a "flush"). If you're capturing the fluid coming out of the transmission cooler lines and adding clean fluid (probably through the dipstick) without adding any products (labeled "flush") and without pushing fluid backwards, that is a fluid exchange... and should yield no negative results.
I did mine at around the 150,000 to 200,000 mark... been running exceptionally well since. I'm at almost 350,000 and this is reminding me to do it again....

While you're at it, change the transfer case fluid as well as front and rear differential fluids.
Personally, I would prioritize the tcase and diffs over buying "parts" for the transmission (definitely do the xmission fluid though), but that's just my opinion. If you have the same transfer case as I do (AWD but not the torsen tcase), then it will definitely benefit from a tcase fluid change and will prevent it from binding and causing crow-hop.

You’re correct, definitely performing a fluid exchange and not flush. Not using any flushers or high pressure machines- don’t wanna clog up my tranny/valve body.

I have done the transfer case and front/rear diffs though at around 100k, which means they are coming up again actually.

Oh wow....350k on the original trans @TequilaWarrior ???? You've got me seriously considering giving it a shot on my Envoy. The radiator is close to needing a replacement, so while I'm in there I plan to add an aux trans cooler. System capacity is roughly what, 16 Quarts or so?

How do you tell if the radiator that is getting close to needing to be replaced? Is it rust?

 

[TequilaWarrior]

Oh wow....350k on the original trans @TequilaWarrior ???? You've got me seriously considering giving it a shot on my Envoy. The radiator is close to needing a replacement, so while I'm in there I plan to add an aux trans cooler. System capacity is roughly what, 16 Quarts or so?

Yep... 350 and change... for about 8 or so years of this thing's life it had the wrong tires on it, so the 350 is actually "low". It's probably more than that by 30k or so. And for 2 years I worked a job that I had a terrible commute. I put 36,000 miles on my Bravada each of those 2 years. I'm now starting to get a mild "flutter" at TCC lockup speeds as it searches for a specific amount of TCC slip. I need to do the mod that removes the slip altogether, but haven't had the guts to do it.

I honestly do not remember what the total capacity is. I seem to recall purchasing 3 gallons of Valvoline Dex VI equivalent from Walmart and using all but a quart or so... but that was a long time ago.

The exchange is sort of ridiculously simple to pull off. It's actually scarier to think about than it is to do. I pulled the fuel pump relay and started the car - it promptly died. Then removed the line, added a hose to a container with a clamp. From there it's crank, spurt, fill. Having a graduated container to keep an eye on what comes out is highly helpful so you're not guessing how much to add back. I believe I pumped my pan out, dropped it, changed the filter, replaced it, and then did the crank & fill but again, it was a long time ago. There's an excellent video howto posted here somewhere that I followed. It details the whole process.

 

[Mooseman]

Transmission Fluid Exchange (Flush)

However, the method described is with the engine running, which is also the way I do it. Would be too much cranking IMHO.

 

[TequilaWarrior]

Transmission Fluid Exchange (Flush)

However, the method described is with the engine running, which is also the way I do it. Would be too much cranking IMHO.

The cranking wasn't that bad.... but I did have jumper cables on standby(and didn't need them). I was worried about being able to manage adding fluid while pumping it out... I lacked the confidence.

 

[jerflash]

I'm at 225k on my 5.3 Envoy, still the original trans. Mine did pretty much exactly what yours was doing at around 185k (bought when it had 177k). I had the harsh 1 to 2 shift when cold, and the sluggish 3 to 4 shift. Changing the shift solenoids helped a bit, but didn't fix the problem.

What solved the 1-2 shift, was replacing the factory accumulator springs. I bought the original (there's two in the housing, yellow and green), and replaced the worn out plastic accumulator with a metal type- 3 by Transgo from eBay. Installing the Transgo kit is a little tricky, especially if you aren't used to working on valve bodies. I had a buddy at a shop watch me do it, because I was afraid of botching it up lol. Might be easier finding a local trans shop whose willing to do the install for a reasonable price (places near me wanted 80 to 150 for the install).

I would avoid doing a flush on the trans, I feel at the age/mileage it's best not to open that can of worms. The old clutch material circulating may be helping to keep it chugging along, but I wouldn't touch it. It wouldn't hurt to swap out the factory pan for the superior Dorman one that holds an extra quart of fluid, and has the drain plug. Maybe do a drain, and fill every 20k or so. Adding an additional aux trans cooler would hugely help too, since these are sensitive to heat.

I attached the spring part #'s and the accumulator piston below. Also make sure to get the correct valve body separator plate, and get the plastic torlon check balls to replace the factory metal ones.

The 1-2 shift problem is defiatly the accumulator but not just the springs, its fluid leaking past it. I installed the Sonnax pinless accumulator and it completly fixed the issue in my 2008. Did it at 170K and its now near 200K without issue.

Also dont flush it, just do a couple spill and fills. Replace the filter. also put in a transcooler.