Envoy "stuck"!

[Envoy09]

Hi guys,

I came across a strange problem that got resolved on it's own...at least for now.

I started the engine today morning, put it into drive & it's like stuck, as if the parking brakes are on. I tried engaging & disengaging the parking brakes a few times...didn't make a difference. Same behaviour on reverse as well. Finally, I turned the engine off, started the engine again and then it moves out fine. Any idea what this could be? Is it just the parking brakes stuck or something to do with the transmission or something?

Another thing I came across is the rear wiper moving on it's own. Not sure it is connected with the above issue but since both happened on the same day I just mentioned it.

 

[CaptainXL]

Did the engine rev without going into gear?

 

[Envoy09]

Did the engine rev without going into gear?

No, it was actually in gear. It was trying to move but was kinda stuck as if there was something preventing it from moving. That's why I was thinking of the possibility of the parking brakes being jammed or so even though I had released it.

 

[CaptainXL]

How many miles does the engine have and what's the history on the transmission and transfer case fluid changes?

 

[Envoy09]

How many miles does the engine have and what's the history on the transmission and transfer case fluid changes?

Done 115,000km (around 71,000 miles). All maintenance at the dealer. Transmission fluid was changed at 100,000km. May be a dumb question....does a transfer case exist on a 2WD?

 

[CaptainXL]

Done 115,000km (around 71,000 miles). All maintenance at the dealer. Transmission fluid was changed at 100,000km. May be a dumb question....does a transfer case exist on a 2WD?

No, there is no transfer case on a 2WD. My mistake.

There should be a 5 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty on 07+ vehicles. I would go back and have it checked out.

 

[The_Roadie]

Parking brakes can surely get stuck. I'd pull the tires and brake rotors and inspect the shoes and linkages.

 

[CaptainXL]

I disagree that it is the parking brake. Restarting the vehicle and then having it work fine would have nothing to do with the parking brakes. Seems to be something driveline related.

 

[budwich]

Have you actually checked the transmission fluid level? Further, from your description, it seems like maybe it was stuck in a higher gearing than expected as some shifting solenoid didn't happen maybe. If you got access to a dealer there, then maybe see if the tranny is registering any codes before the problem gets bigger.

 

[dfc739]

When the vehicle was "stuck", did it move at all? Even an inch or two?

 

[Envoy09]

When the vehicle was "stuck", did it move at all? Even an inch or two?

Yes actually....not really move, rather try to move. Like there is a brick or something under the wheels....that's why I got the impression it is parking brakes related. If it was related to the driveline, would there be that slight movement? I mean it was like 2 opposing forces...one trying to move and the other restricting the movement. But then the problem getting resolved by restarting the engine is confusing.

 

[Envoy09]

Have you actually checked the transmission fluid level? Further, from your description, it seems like maybe it was stuck in a higher gearing than expected as some shifting solenoid didn't happen maybe. If you got access to a dealer there, then maybe see if the tranny is registering any codes before the problem gets bigger.

You mean that it was stuck on 3rd or 4th gear? I don't think so...it didn't feel that way. I guess I'll have to get it checked at the dealer during the weekend.

 

[CaptainXL]

I guess I'll have to get it checked at the dealer during the weekend.

With regards to the last time the transmission fluid was changed. It's possible they didn't fill the transmission all the way up or they used a short filter for a deep pan and it came loose.

You should check the fluid level according to the owners manual. You could possibly avoid a trip to the stealer and a service charge.

 

[dfc739]

Yes actually....not really move, rather try to move. Like there is a brick or something under the wheels....that's why I got the impression it is parking brakes related. If it was related to the driveline, would there be that slight movement? I mean it was like 2 opposing forces...one trying to move and the other restricting the movement. But then the problem getting resolved by restarting the engine is confusing.

You didn't really answer my question. If you had marked the exact spot the wheels were in when the truck was "stuck", would it have moved from that exact spot before you restarted it? So were you able to move it even an inch in drive or reverse? Or were you able to rock it a little bit but not move it? I have a theory, but I need an answer to this question.

You can pretty easily move the truck with the parking brake applied. It might take a little more gas, but you can do it.

 

[Envoy09]

You didn't really answer my question. If you had marked the exact spot the wheels were in when the truck was "stuck", would it have moved from that exact spot before you restarted it? So were you able to move it even an inch in drive or reverse? Or were you able to rock it a little bit but not move it? I have a theory, but I need an answer to this question.

You can pretty easily move the truck with the parking brake applied. It might take a little more gas, but you can do it.

Ok, got your question. I was able to rock it but not move.

I did not push hard on the gas, so I really wouldn't know whether it could be moved. I knew there was something wrong when I took my foot off the brakes, so I didn't push hard on the gas. When it was not budging in drive as well as reverse, I first checked whether there was something under the wheels (I use the apartment building's common parking). Then I tried engaging & releasing the parking brakes. Finally, (with the parking brakes released) I restarted the engine which resolved the problem.

 

[seanpooh]

I used to have the same problem but it was because of my transfer case after using 4wd and switching back into 2wd. But it doesn't apply to you...

It must be in the driveline, my guess is the transmission. Something isn't working and restarting the engine helps... something electronic. You could try resetting the PCM, just somewhere to start.

 

[dfc739]

So you were able to rock it like it was still in Park?

I think the parking pawl failed to disengage the transmission. When you shift the gear selector to "P" the parking pawl sticks into the transmission to hold the driveline in place, thus the park position. The pawl is spring loaded but the spring tension is very weak. I have a transmission disassembled- if there is enough interest I can make a video of its action. It wouldn't take much to get the parking pawl stuck and thus a "stuck" driveline.

It wasn't the action of turning off and on the truck that fixed the problem. It was shifting to "Park" and back into "Drive" that freed up the parking pawl.

Just my theory anyway. Without personally looking into it I wouldn't be able to verify. Even if I could personally look into it I might not be able to verify. It might never happen again.

 

[Envoy09]

I used to have the same problem but it was because of my transfer case after using 4wd and switching back into 2wd. But it doesn't apply to you...

It must be in the driveline, my guess is the transmission. Something isn't working and restarting the engine helps... something electronic. You could try resetting the PCM, just somewhere to start.

Frankly speaking, I'm not a DIY person. If it's something electronic, is it gonna be expensive?

Just for an idea.....A normal oil/filter change at the dealer here costs around $45. The major services (every 50,000km) costs around $500.

 

[chicagotransam]

So you were able to rock it like it was still in Park?

I think the parking pawl failed to disengage the transmission. When you shift the gear selector to "P" the parking pawl sticks into the transmission to hold the driveline in place, thus the park position. The pawl is spring loaded but the spring tension is very weak. I have a transmission disassembled- if there is enough interest I can make a video of its action. It wouldn't take much to get the parking pawl stuck and thus a "stuck" driveline.

It wasn't the action of turning off and on the truck that fixed the problem. It was shifting to "Park" and back into "Drive" that freed up the parking pawl.

Just my theory anyway. Without personally looking into it I wouldn't be able to verify. Even if I could personally look into it I might not be able to verify. It might never happen again.

I don't think the pawl would cause this much disruption; it's pretty flimsy.

Envoy09, something electronic can be a few bucks to several thousand. I am unsure of how the warranties work in Kuwait, but if they will at least diagnose it, let them. Do you have any friends out there that are a little tech savvy? If you're American military, I can point you to a few folks that can help

 

[CaptainXL]

Frankly speaking, I'm not a DIY person. If it's something electronic, is it gonna be expensive?

Let me reiterate here. Someone correct me if I am wrong but shouldn't the vehicle be under the 5 year /100,000 mile powertrain warranty? Not sure if warranties in Kuwait are the same as in the USA.

 

[Envoy09]

So you were able to rock it like it was still in Park?

I think the parking pawl failed to disengage the transmission. When you shift the gear selector to "P" the parking pawl sticks into the transmission to hold the driveline in place, thus the park position. The pawl is spring loaded but the spring tension is very weak. I have a transmission disassembled- if there is enough interest I can make a video of its action. It wouldn't take much to get the parking pawl stuck and thus a "stuck" driveline.

It wasn't the action of turning off and on the truck that fixed the problem. It was shifting to "Park" and back into "Drive" that freed up the parking pawl.

Just my theory anyway. Without personally looking into it I wouldn't be able to verify. Even if I could personally look into it I might not be able to verify. It might never happen again.

The theory sounds logical and yes, I would like to see such a video.

However, there is another point....(with the engine on) I did shift into park twice & then back to drive & reverse without any change. It was only after restarting the engine that it got resolved. Any explanation on that, if the above theory is the reason?

 

[Envoy09]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but shouldn't the vehicle be under the 5 year /100,000 mile warranty? Not sure if warranties in Kuwait are the same as in the USA.

Nope, the warranty in Kuwait is 3 year / 60,000km. I did get the exhaust manifold replaced (for the 2nd time) just outside the 60,000km warranty but I guess that was just a goodwill gesture. In this case, no warranty for sure.

 

[Envoy09]

I don't think the pawl would cause this much disruption; it's pretty flimsy.

Envoy09, something electronic can be a few bucks to several thousand. I am unsure of how the warranties work in Kuwait, but if they will at least diagnose it, let them. Do you have any friends out there that are a little tech savvy? If you're American military, I can point you to a few folks that can help

I'm sure they will charge for diagnosing as well. No tech savy guys who could help and I'm not related to military.

What's the general opinion, guys? Should I wait for a recurrence or get it diagnosed?

Just want to add some history, not sure if it makes a difference. I bought this envoy brand new & it has only seen proper roads, mainly highways at speeds above 100km/h. No offroading or rough handling.

 

[CaptainXL]

Bunch of ideas here but to me it seems your options are as follows:

1. Disconnect the battery for an hour and then reconnect. Go on your merry way and hope it doesn't come back...or
2. Bring it to the dealer and hope they find something minor or nothing at all. The diagnostic fee will be around $100.

If I was in your shoes I would do #1 and just continue to drive it as is. However if you recently had any work done in or around the transmission (you said they changed the fluid and filter recently?) then go back and kindly ask them to do a no charge follow up as you think there may be a problem related to the work they did.

 

[Envoy09]

Bunch of ideas here but to me it seems your options are as follows:

1. Disconnect the battery for an hour and then reconnect. Go on your merry way and hope it doesn't come back...or
2. Bring it to the dealer and hope they find something minor or nothing at all. The diagnostic fee will be around $100.

If I was in your shoes I would do #1 and just continue to drive it as is. However if you recently had any work done in or around the transmission (you said they changed the fluid and filter recently?) then go back and kindly ask them to do a no charge follow up as you think there may be a problem related to the work they did.

No work was done on the transmission recently. The fluid was changed at 100,000km, i.e. around 6 months back.

 

[Envoy09]

I enquired at the dealer when I went for my routine service. They said to wait & see whether it happens again. They say that it can happen if the engine has not been warmed up. It was around 5-7 deg. C when I had this issue and I was starting the engine after 2 days. I was late for work (as always ) and it is true that I shifted to drive immediately after starting the engine.

 

[dmanns67]

I shifted to drive immediately after starting the engine.

Your engine always need warm up time especially in the cold and sitting for days. Get a remote starter and problem solved

 

[Envoy09]

Your engine always need warm up time especially in the cold and sitting for days. Get a remote starter and problem solved

Well, I did know that it would be better to warm up but could it really cause such a problem?

 

[meerschm]

you should not need any warm up.

if it is 30 below c, you might want to give it 30 seconds or so, but that is it.

nothing you need to worry about.

you should be able to start and take off.

(of course moderate use of the accelerator is always a good idea)

 

[jrSS]

you should not need any warm up.

if it is 30 below c, you might want to give it 30 seconds or so, but that is it.

nothing you need to worry about.

you should be able to start and take off.

(of course moderate use of the accelerator is always a good idea)

Your crazy...I let mine warm up for at least 5-7min. I'd rather drive down the road in a warm vehicle than driving in a cold one..

 

[jailfood]

What you didn't notice....

Get in car
turn key
STEP ON BRAKE
put in gear
no move
hit gas
no move

shut off car
turn key
STEP ON BRAKE
put in gear
moves


Trust Roadie

It is the parking brake

This has happened to me, on the wife's car, it jammed the brake on in the same manner, went for a few days then did it again. I pulled it apart to find the parking brake pads in pieces. As the brake setup is the same design I would look here first.


I understand you aren't a real DIY guy. SO find a friend who has a clue and take a look.

 

[IllogicTC]

Except I'm pretty sure the parking brake is actually a separate unit from the regular brakes, you have to remove the rear brakes to get to the system.

Still worth looking into, though.

 

[Wooluf1952]

Except I'm pretty sure the parking brake is actually a separate unit from the regular brakes, you have to remove the rear brakes to get to the system.

Still worth looking into, though.

The parking brake is a lot like the drum brakes of old. And, yes, the rear disc has to be removed.

 

[Envoy09]

Hello guys,

I had a unusual experience yesterday which I believe is the same as the initial post. I was crawling through a traffic jam....only applying / releasing brake, not using the accelerator at all.
After a while, the brake pedal started getting stiff/hard....you know the way it would if your engine is off and you try applying the brakes. Then the envoy wouldn't move...on pressing the accelerator it behaved just like it would if you tried to accelerate with brakes applied. So I was basically stuck in the middle of the road.
I turned off the engine, started again and everything is back to normal.

Guys, any idea what this is? To me it looks like the brakes are getting applied on its own (I feel that especially since the brake pedal just got real stiff with no room for movement).

Does it look like a major repair?

 

[The_Roadie]

Very odd. I'd suspect the abs system. When was the last time you flushed the brake fluid? Exercised the abs on snow or ice or sand to make sure it works?

 

[Envoy09]

I don't think the brake fluid has ever been flushed, unless it's part of the regular services at the dealer. All my services are done at the dealer. The last "major" service was done at 100,000km. It is now 139,000km.
The abs did come into action last week during a hard braking on the highway. Can a malfunctioning abs cause an automatic braking just like that?

 

[northcreek]

Hello guys,

I had a unusual experience yesterday which I believe is the same as the initial post. I was crawling through a traffic jam....only applying / releasing brake, not using the accelerator at all.
After a while, the brake pedal started getting stiff/hard....you know the way it would if your engine is off and you try applying the brakes. Then the envoy wouldn't move...on pressing the accelerator it behaved just like it would if you tried to accelerate with brakes applied. So I was basically stuck in the middle of the road.
I turned off the engine, started again and everything is back to normal.

Guys, any idea what this is? To me it looks like the brakes are getting applied on its own (I feel that especially since the brake pedal just got real stiff with no room for movement).

Does it look like a major repair?

I'm thinking that your power brake servo internal valving is at fault and not releasing. When you kill the engine you also kill the vacuum to the servo and it releases. As others have said the ABS could also be a culprit although you would probably throw a code if it were. I'm going with the booster(servo) guess....Mike.
ps that warm-up thing was the service tech trying to get rid of you

 

[Envoy09]

The brake servo looks like a reasonable explanation. Normally, at the dealer do you think they would do any part repair to the booster or would they just replace the whole unit. What kind of cost is involved here?

I really hope my brakes don't get jammed when I'm on the highway!!

 

[northcreek]

Complete unit, remember they are playing with your money

 

[Envoy09]

And how much would that cost approximately?