Engine trouble. Need help.

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
I don't know exactly where to post this, but I'm hoping someone may be able to help me out, maybe having a similar problem, or just ideas..... I have a 05 envoy with the 5.3, 132,000 miles. About two months ago I had the check engine light flashing as I drove home from work. Only lasted a few seconds then shut off and no codes were stored. It ran fine and the light stayed off until this past Sunday. I was driving on the highway at 65 mph and again the cel started to flash. I notice a slight loss of power and also a slight knocking coming from engine. I proceeded to pull off the exit and pull into a gas station aprox 1 mile from when the light came on. As I slowed to pull in the engine was running very rough and some greyish smoke came from the exhaust. The engine has a pronounced knocking type noise and is running rough as It shakes the whole vehicle as it idles. After turning off the engine, I let it sit for 30 mins, then tried to start it back up. The engine still ran the same, but no smoke. The oil level was down about 2.5 quarts. Unfortunately this engine consumes oil so quickly (about 1.5 quarts a month) I hadn't got around to adding any this month. So as I try to add any details I can think of...I ended up having the envoy towed home. I don't have much money to have a shop work on it yet. I do not have a code scanner to pull the engine codes (cel is now on steady). And I dont want to drive it anywhere to have the codes pulled. Oh, also the day before all this happened, the battery was dead. I charged the battery and it ran fine. While waiting for the tow truck I left the driver door open, by the time the tow truck arrived (2 hrs) the battery was dead. Which tells me I may need a battery as well. When I started the engine after I got it towed home, the gauges all show normal and am reading 13.2 volts. I am looking for suggestions or ideas any of you may have. I know in the long run I'll have to get it to a shop but I just don't have the money yet. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you in advance!
 

meerschm

Member
Aug 26, 2012
1,079
ch41 said:
I don't know exactly where to post this, but I'm hoping someone may be able to help me out, maybe having a similar problem, or just ideas..... I have a 05 envoy with the 5.3, 132,000 miles. About two months ago I had the check engine light flashing as I drove home from work. Only lasted a few seconds then shut off and no codes were stored. It ran fine and the light stayed off until this past Sunday. I was driving on the highway at 65 mph and again the cel started to flash. I notice a slight loss of power and also a slight knocking coming from engine. I proceeded to pull off the exit and pull into a gas station aprox 1 mile from when the light came on. As I slowed to pull in the engine was running very rough and some greyish smoke came from the exhaust. The engine has a pronounced knocking type noise and is running rough as It shakes the whole vehicle as it idles. After turning off the engine, I let it sit for 30 mins, then tried to start it back up. The engine still ran the same, but no smoke. The oil level was down about 2.5 quarts. Unfortunately this engine consumes oil so quickly (about 1.5 quarts a month) I hadn't got around to adding any this month. So as I try to add any details I can think of...I ended up having the envoy towed home. I don't have much money to have a shop work on it yet. I do not have a code scanner to pull the engine codes (cel is now on steady). And I dont want to drive it anywhere to have the codes pulled. Oh, also the day before all this happened, the battery was dead. I charged the battery and it ran fine. While waiting for the tow truck I left the driver door open, by the time the tow truck arrived (2 hrs) the battery was dead. Which tells me I may need a battery as well. When I started the engine after I got it towed home, the gauges all show normal and am reading 13.2 volts. I am looking for suggestions or ideas any of you may have. I know in the long run I'll have to get it to a shop but I just don't have the money yet. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you in advance!

is the volt reading from the dash, or do you have a digital voltmeter? voltage seems low.

what did you use to charge the battery?
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
Usually flashing CEL means a misfire. Misfires will make the engine shake, can make it smoke some (from unburnt fuel), smell bad, lose power, etc.

Go to your local autozone and rent a scan tool. They charge your credit card but you get a full refund when you return it. Use it and find out which cylinder is the misfiring one, then check that cylinders coil, wire, plug, etc.

Sounds like your battery could be weak/bad also, but that wouldn't cause it to misfire.
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
Sparky said:
Usually flashing CEL means a misfire. Misfires will make the engine shake, can make it smoke some (from unburnt fuel), smell bad, lose power, etc.

Go to your local autozone and rent a scan tool. They charge your credit card but you get a full refund when you return it. Use it and find out which cylinder is the misfiring one, then check that cylinders coil, wire, plug, etc.

Sounds like your battery could be weak/bad also, but that wouldn't cause it to misfire.

Thanks to both of you! I charged the battery with a craftsman "smart charger" And my neighbor used a meter to read the voltage at the battery while it was running. I called auto zone, tey told me they no longer rent scan tools. I borrowed one from a co-worked today and will check for codes this evening.
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
I shoul also add that my neighbor had a scan toll that he uses on his 05 Pontiac Grand am. He hooked it up to my 05 envoy and the tool would not work at all. (did not display any lights or readout on the display). He seemed puzzled that it would work on his 05 GM but not mine. :confused: I wondered if the computer could have somehow went bad? Maybe from low battery voltage? I'm just poking in the dark but I'm not sure if that's possible or not.
 

Jkust

Member
Dec 4, 2011
946
Could be a broken spark plug or a bad coil. The grayish smoke is the result of unburnt fuel mentioned above which is bad for the catalytic converter. The code reader will tell you exactly which is misfiring and I'll just add in that if you were to get a free trial of Onstar, they will tell you the codes as well. I had a broken plug on one of my 5.3's once.
 

AtlWrk

Member
Dec 6, 2011
674
ch41 said:
I shoul also add that my neighbor had a scan toll that he uses on his 05 Pontiac Grand am. He hooked it up to my 05 envoy and the tool would not work at all. (did not display any lights or readout on the display). He seemed puzzled that it would work on his 05 GM but not mine. :confused: I wondered if the computer could have somehow went bad? Maybe from low battery voltage? I'm just poking in the dark but I'm not sure if that's possible or not.

Check Fuse 13 in the fuse block labeled CIG LIGHTER. This fuse powers the OBD-II port and the scan tool.
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
Thank you for the tip. I did notice that the cig lighter port hadn't been working. The power outlet ports below do work though. I'll check that fuse. I also have pulled each plug wire off the coils. They all seem to have good spark. I haven't got down to the plugs yet, only checked one, and it looked good. I really wanted to get a code for which cylinder is missing before I took the time to tear down the passenger side of the engine due to all the coolant lines in the way. I did install new plugs and wires 2 years ago. Just to throw that out there. I have about 28000 miles on those new plugs n wires. Again thanks for all the tips. I really hope I can figure this out without paying out tons of money to a shop.
 

xj2202009

Member
Mar 27, 2012
105
I would do a throttle body cleanup, if electrical power was lost the computer was reset and needs atleast 20 miles to adjust and could've not readjusted properly, also, if you are losing that much oil, you definitely have a leak some where.
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
Ok. Just replaced fuse 13. It was blown. I used the obd2 tool and got a P0304 cylinder 4 misfire. I pulled the plug out of 4 and it's all crusted and black. Also very wet. Now I'm not sure how to figure out if the plug and wire is good or not?
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
ch41 said:
Thanks to both of you! I charged the battery with a craftsman "smart charger" And my neighbor used a meter to read the voltage at the battery while it was running. I called auto zone, tey told me they no longer rent scan tools. I borrowed one from a co-worked today and will check for codes this evening.

IIRC, the reading while the engine is running would tell you what the alternator is putting out. Not necessarily what the battery is charged to.


xj2202009 said:
I would do a throttle body cleanup, if electrical power was lost the computer was reset and needs at least 20 miles to adjust and could've not readjusted properly, also, if you are losing that much oil, you definitely have a leak some where.

Cleaning the t-body won't hurt, but the 5.3 and 6.0 have PCV valves and don't have the problems of the 4.2.
Also, the 5.3 has a history of using oil. There is a TSB about it. IIRC, it has something to do with a problem in a valve cover.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
ch41 said:
Ok. Just replaced fuse 13. It was blown. I used the obd2 tool and got a P0304 cylinder 4 misfire. I pulled the plug out of 4 and it's all crusted and black. Also very wet. Now I'm not sure how to figure out if the plug and wire is good or not?

Clean the plug as best you can and see if it runs OK again. Odds are that's your problem. Now the cause? dunno yet. Clean it first, then check it after a day or two and see if it is gunking up again. How old are the plug wires? If they have never been replaced you should replace them. A bad wire could cause weak firing on a cylinder, which can lead to all sorts of weird issues (including gumming up).
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
Well I've been working on this all evening. I haven't come up with anything yet. I bought a brand new plug and replaced it. I swapped the plug wire from cyl 4 to cyl 3. I erased the code and started the engine. It still runs the same... Missing, and a ticking noise. (tick tick tick tick tick). The engine code came back again as P0304 same as before. I have spark coming out of the coil for cylinder 4 but doesn't seem as hard as cylinder 3 when I tried that coil. I held a screwdriver near the port. It really jumped at cyl 3 but te spark at cyl 4 was there and noticable but not the same as at cyl 3. I priced a coil auto zone quoted $118 which I don't have right now. Especially when I don't know for sure. And would the miss fire cause such a loud ticking noise? Almost sounds like striking a screwdriver on the side of the valve cover on time with the firing order. What are my options at this point? Call a salvage yard? I notice some type of maybe circuit board under the brackets of the coil packs. Two wire harness connections for each cylinder, one going to the injector and one going to the coil. If I call a salvage yard should I try to purchase the whole strip with the harness and all? I'm just frustrated and everyones input is very helpful! Thanks again. Oh, the plug wires were fairly newer. Replaced summer of 2011. I did the throttle body cleaning spring of 2012 and the plugs were also new summer 2011. I'm not sure what else would keep this plug from firing? I guess nothing I could check without major tear down. That's all for now. :frown:
 

BRomanJr

Member
Dec 9, 2011
371
ch41 said:
Well I've been working on this all evening. I haven't come up with anything yet. I bought a brand new plug and replaced it. I swapped the plug wire from cyl 4 to cyl 3. I erased the code and started the engine. It still runs the same... Missing, and a ticking noise. (tick tick tick tick tick). The engine code came back again as P0304 same as before. I have spark coming out of the coil for cylinder 4 but doesn't seem as hard as cylinder 3 when I tried that coil. I held a screwdriver near the port. It really jumped at cyl 3 but te spark at cyl 4 was there and noticable but not the same as at cyl 3. I priced a coil auto zone quoted $118 which I don't have right now. Especially when I don't know for sure. And would the miss fire cause such a loud ticking noise? Almost sounds like striking a screwdriver on the side of the valve cover on time with the firing order. What are my options at this point? Call a salvage yard? I notice some type of maybe circuit board under the brackets of the coil packs. Two wire harness connections for each cylinder, one going to the injector and one going to the coil. If I call a salvage yard should I try to purchase the whole strip with the harness and all? I'm just frustrated and everyones input is very helpful! Thanks again. Oh, the plug wires were fairly newer. Replaced summer of 2011. I did the throttle body cleaning spring of 2012 and the plugs were also new summer 2011. I'm not sure what else would keep this plug from firing? I guess nothing I could check without major tear down. That's all for now. :frown:

The 05 and up 5.3 in the 360s have a cylinder deactivation feature that probably failed.
It was called DOD (Displacement On Demand) at first and then later GM changed only the name to AFM (Active Fuel Management).

I sometimes wish I had this feature until I hear stories (possibly adding yours to the list) about the failures.

EDIT:
Just had a thought, possibly you are very very low on oil, engine lost enough oil pressure to cause a lifter to "deactivate". I would add oil to full mark and pray that is fixes itself. (crosses fingers)

IIRC Cyls 3,4,5 and 6 are the ones that get deactivated.
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
Ok... Those are good thoughts. My engine is a displacement on demand type. I'm wondering if it could be related? Although wouldn't that show a Misfire on cylinders 2,4,6, and 8 not just number 4? Also from the beginning I had suspected a oil related problem more than likely a collapsed lifter. Therefore I have already tried running the engine with the oil level topped off. There was no difference. Someone I know had recomended seafoam which I added to the oil and ran for about 10 mins. That also changed nothing. So a friend of mine knows a mechanic who suggested I run an engine flush though it and drain and change the oil, which also did nothing. My uncle has been working on cars all his life, but he's not a certified mechanic. He is thinking it may be a cam issue which is causing the valves to not open on time, and not alowing the fuel to ignite. The biggest struggle for me is that I just don't have enough money to take it to a garage and say "here, it's misfiring, fix it". I have a feeling this is going to cost a few thousand to repair. I pray I am wrong! :no:
Thank you everyone for all the ideas and input!
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
Misfire on Cyl 4 and the plug is wet and nasty.

What plugs are you using? I know the I6 likes AC Delco only but not sure about the 5.3. There is a chance you have a weak coil and the combustion chamber is not burning everything off. If you have access to a temp probe or an IR temp gun, test each of the exhaust ports and note the temp difference on that bank.

That's alot of oil to lose each month, hopefully it's leaking somewhere....if not then likely a valve guide or ring.

I'm a big fan of BG 44K and would highly recommend running some of that through your tank just to cover that base.

I believe the misfire is coming from a soaked plug either from fuel or oil, not sure so can you post a pic of the plug? If that's the case we need to verify compression and since you are losing oil lets note the readings of cylinders 2,4,6,8 and see how they compare.

Could the coil be weak...possibly, but if you have the means try replacing it and see what happens, don't skimp, be sure to get an AC coil.
 

jailfood

Member
Dec 7, 2011
34
Not sure how difficult, or even if recommended but...... swap a coil pack. Move it from one set of plugs to the other and see if the misfire moves with the coil pack. Poor mans way to find if it's bad. Then shop the local junk yard for a replacement. Let somebody else tell you if they are interchangeable in that manner, I would think so.:confused:
 

TangoBravo

Member
Dec 5, 2011
208
jailfood said:
Not sure how difficult, or even if recommended but...... swap a coil pack. Move it from one set of plugs to the other and see if the misfire moves with the coil pack. Poor mans way to find if it's bad. Then shop the local junk yard for a replacement. Let somebody else tell you if they are interchangeable in that manner, I would think so.:confused:

Thats what I have always done. I dont know if its right or wrong, but it seems to work on anything I have ever done it with.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
Yeah you can move them around, and I highly recommend doing that first vs buying a new one. No reason to spend the money on a new pack just to find it isn't the culprit.
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
^ I agree ^ Swap coils first. If the SES moves with the coil, it's probably bad.
A new coil from RockAuto.com is about $55 + shipping.
 

BRomanJr

Member
Dec 9, 2011
371
gmcman said:
...

That's alot of oil to lose each month, hopefully it's leaking somewhere....if not then likely a valve guide or ring.

The most common cause for extreme oil usage on a 5.3 is a defective driver side valve cover. The PCV baffles to keep from sucking up the splashing oil are defective and or leaking. This causes oil to be directly ingested and burned.

I had this problem and a NEW GM valve cover (GM has a TSB on this) fixed 90% of my oil usage. At the time I had 166,000 miles on it and considered it to be "as good as it gets". Close to 200,000 now and still "fixed".
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
Again, thank you to everyone for the responses! I truly appreciate it. I will have to look into the valve cover as well. First thing on my list this evening is to swap coils and see if the misfire follows the coil. I pray that it does, however I'm not very optimistic on that being the case. I do have spark, but just seems somewhat weak compared to the others. I have a strong gut feeling that I have one or two collapsed lifters at cylinder 4 causing it not to fire and also the ticking noise. I hope it's not a more serious problem like having cam damage. If I find the coil pack to be operating properly, I think my next step will be to check the compression at cylinder 4 and compare with others. Anyone know how much compression is normal on the 5.3?
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
Gmcman, I am running Autolite plugs, duralast wires. I don't know if a picture of the plug will work now as I've wiped it off. When I took it out originally it was very wet, black and carboned up. I'm not sure that the cylinder is firing at all. I don't have access to a temp gun. Maybe I can rent or borrow one if I can find someone who has one.
 

dfc739

Member
Jul 29, 2012
170
Des Moines, IA
ch41 said:
If I find the coil pack to be operating properly, I think my next step will be to check the compression at cylinder 4 and compare with others. Anyone know how much compression is normal on the 5.3?

This is what I came to say. If it's not the coil/spark plug and it's getting fuel, then you need to check the compression. (Fuel + Spark + Compression = happy engine) I changed out my 4.2I6 back over Labor Day because it exhibited much of the same symptoms. I swapped coils and spark plugs and could smell the fuel with no change in the running. It ended up I had completely lost compression on one cylinder. Getting the "normal" compression figure isn't always the best idea. Every engine has worn over time to a different extent. When you get a "normal" compression value it represents a pristine motor with no wear. That said, you need to watch and see if the cylinder in question is 5-10% or more different from the others. My guess is it will be.

Also, a flashing CEL means you are possibly damaging the catalytic converter. My first thought when I saw the flashing CEL: "Hmmm. Haven't seen that before. Either it's REALLY bad or it's an intermittent problem." It's the former. I still drove my I6 for a few weeks by disconnecting the power to that fuel injector and it ran like crap, but didn't melt my converter.
 

Voymom

Member
Feb 3, 2012
2,523
I have a CONSTANT ticking noise...it sounds like a bomb is going to explode and it is my fan clutch going out...the ticking could be the same issue for you as well. I had a slight whine and shake when my outer bearing of the water pump was going out, not sure if that is the issue for you or not, obviously you have some engine issues to work on, but maybe there are secondary problems going on as well?

Fan clutch video link

VID 20121025 111656 - YouTube

You will have to listen for it closely...my beastly 4.3 engine is kind of bad ass :tongue: lol Plus it is really windy out.

You will hear a tick....tick...tick...tick tick tick....tick. Some where in there :biggrin:
 

Jkust

Member
Dec 4, 2011
946
I vote to swap the coils around as well. Funny thing it took three tries to the dealer under the BtoB warranty for them to realize my issue was a broken plug. I didn't have any ticking just a lot of stumbling. I also had the oil usage issue fixed way back at just over 40,000 miles so the fact you've gone so long without issue is amazing.
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
Update:
I swapped coils between cyls 3and 4. Also replaced the battery as it was dead again. I reset the codes and started the engine. Same results. Misfire on cyl 4 and tick tick tick tick sound. So I followed another lead and removed the passenger side valve cover and removed cyl 4 rockers. I sprayed Berryman b12 chemtool in the lifter holes. I notice one of the lifter rods are lower than the other. Is this a sign of a collapsed lifter?
 

BRomanJr

Member
Dec 9, 2011
371
ch41 said:
Update:
I swapped coils between cyls 3and 4. Also replaced the battery as it was dead again. I reset the codes and started the engine. Same results. Misfire on cyl 4 and tick tick tick tick sound. So I followed another lead and removed the passenger side valve cover and removed cyl 4 rockers. I sprayed Berryman b12 chemtool in the lifter holes. I notice one of the lifter rods are lower than the other. Is this a sign of a collapsed lifter?

Yes, The DOD system "collapses" the lifter through the use of a solenoid and oil pressure. Sounds like a lifter failed??.

Unfortunately I am not an expert on DOD, so a GM diagnosis chart should be used to determine what part failed.
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
Is it possible that a solenoid of the DOD system is keeping this cylinder 4 from firing? Anything I can check as far as the DOD system is concerned?
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
I just found this in an article about the DOD.

In support of cylinder deactivation is some very interesting choreography from things ranging from throttle valve modulation to active exhaust tuning, but it all starts with the additional job tasked to the lifters. "We disable the valves through a device called a switching lifter," explains Meagher. "This differs from a normal lifter in that there is an inner body and an outer body connected by a spring-loaded pin. For V-8 operation, the pin is fully expanded by the spring so the two pieces act as one and the lifter acts like a regular lifter. When we want to disable the valve operation, we deliver high-pressure oil to a groove in the lifter that leads to the outside end of the pin, forcing the pin to collapse the spring. Now the two parts of the lifter are free to move relative to one another and as the cam lobe pushes on the follower the inner portion of the lifter pushes against another spring at the top of the lifter and does not transfer force to the pushrod."

A look at the lifter cross-section reveals an elegant, yet simple design that has the potential to change the way we think about traditional pushrod engines. (Ironically, when DOD is working, it hinges on lifters that do not lift! Something we never thought we'd ever want.)

Makes more sense to me. I was driving at highway speed more than likely "in" DOD mode. When needed the "switching lifter" for cylinder 4 never switched to reactivate the cylinder. Now I need to figure out how to reactivate it. :undecided:
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
I just found this in an article about the DOD.

In support of cylinder deactivation is some very interesting choreography from things ranging from throttle valve modulation to active exhaust tuning, but it all starts with the additional job tasked to the lifters. "We disable the valves through a device called a switching lifter," explains Meagher. "This differs from a normal lifter in that there is an inner body and an outer body connected by a spring-loaded pin. For V-8 operation, the pin is fully expanded by the spring so the two pieces act as one and the lifter acts like a regular lifter. When we want to disable the valve operation, we deliver high-pressure oil to a groove in the lifter that leads to the outside end of the pin, forcing the pin to collapse the spring. Now the two parts of the lifter are free to move relative to one another and as the cam lobe pushes on the follower the inner portion of the lifter pushes against another spring at the top of the lifter and does not transfer force to the pushrod."
A look at the lifter cross-section reveals an elegant, yet simple design that has the potential to change the way we think about traditional pushrod engines. (Ironically, when DOD is working, it hinges on lifters that do not lift! Something we never thought we'd ever want.)



Makes more sense to me. I was driving at highway speed more than likely "in" DOD mode. When needed the "switching lifter" for cylinder 4 never switched to reactivate the cylinder. Now I need to figure out how to reactivate it. :undecided:
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
Ive been reading up on the DOD system. I found this article Document ID# 1417658  2005 Ponti

I'm wondering if I should remove the intake manifold to access the replaceable filter they talk about? Also the vlom solenoids are under the intake manifold as well. Anyone have more experience on the DOD system that could give me some good advice on this.

I could just have a collapsed lifter on that cylinder 4 and being that cylinder 4 is a DOD cylinder, it's basically stuck in de-activation mode keeping the cyl from firing. Or maybe a bad solenoid? Or maybe a blockage in th oil system stopping this lifter from re-activating? Any thoughts?

Thanks again to everyone for the helpful ideas!
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
Dang outside my area of knowledge. I really don't know much about DoD :frown:
 

Denali n DOO

Member
May 22, 2012
5,596
Sparky said:
Dang outside my area of knowledge. I really don't know much about DoD :frown:

All I know is my original motor burned lots of oil even after the valve cover replacement. I have about 50,000km on my new motor and it's using more oil now too. I wonder if the new motor (part # 89018189 $5100) has the updated valve cover on it or maybe the original design baffle is plugged up again. I change oil every 5000km. I hope you get your issue solved.
 

BRomanJr

Member
Dec 9, 2011
371
Denali n DOO said:
All I know is my original motor burned lots of oil even after the valve cover replacement. I have about 50,000km on my new motor and it's using more oil now too. I wonder if the new motor (part # 89018189 $5100) has the updated valve cover on it or maybe the original design baffle is plugged up again. I change oil every 5000km. I hope you get your issue solved.

My understanding was that the defective covers had poor sealing between the riveted baffle and the inside of the cover itself. This allowed air to be sucked in without going through the baffling. This direct path allowed air with the oil still in it up through the PCV system and into the engine. I have never heard of cleaning the cover as a cure.

A replacement engine sitting in stock may well have had an early "defective" cover on it. Not sure how to tell the difference. Buy one direct from GM if you are willing to try it.
 

Denali n DOO

Member
May 22, 2012
5,596
BRomanJr said:
My understanding was that the defective covers had poor sealing between the riveted baffle and the inside of the cover itself. This allowed air to be sucked in without going through the baffling. This direct path allowed air with the oil still in it up through the PCV system and into the engine. I have never heard of cleaning the cover as a cure.

A replacement engine sitting in stock may well have had an early "defective" cover on it. Not sure how to tell the difference. Buy one direct from GM if you are willing to try it.

I didn't mean cleaning, I thought that the shape or size of the baffle was changed in the new covers because the old ones would get plugged up. They referred to PIP4576C, replced valve covers #12582224 and 12570427 and gaskets also # 12574386 whatever that is. So if it's burning oil do the rings get sludged up? I wonder what happens in the cylinder that don't fire when DOD is on. I'm not a big fan of these motors but they are good for mpg's. I'll have to go visit the dealer and see about getting this valve cover stuff done to this new motor while its still under warranty. Is there something that will clean the rings if they are all sludged up?

Someone else referred to this tsb whatever it is, tsb#10-06-01-007b.
 

navigator

Member
Dec 3, 2011
504
I think on the idle side of DOD there is no fire and no fuel. The cylinders keep moving and everything should be lubricated normally.

All that being said, my dad had DOD in a silverado and he said it rarely kicked over to 4cyl mode, he said you had to pretty much be cruising on level ground for it to kick in.
 

ch41

Original poster
Member
Oct 22, 2012
20
Well.... Ran the Gunk engine flush through the oil. I sprayed the lifters with berryman B-12 Chemtool. Drained the oil, put the valve cover back on. Erased the codes and started the engine. It still has no change. I could see the collapsed lifter after removing the valve cover. The second rocker back on cylinder 4 was loose meaning rocking back and forth due to no tension at the push rod. With the lifter collapsed, the pushrod is sitting down and not even touching the bottom of the rocker. So I proceeded to disconnect the fuel injector on cyl 4 to prevent fuel in the exhaust. I drove it down to a local repair shop and asked their opinion and a estimate on repairs. They seemed to think a collapsed lifter as well and quoted $650 per cylinder to change the lifters and $265 for the parts to replace 1 lifter, one head gasket, one roller and some other gasket I believe. So roughly $915 plus tax to replace the one lifter on cylinder 4. :frown:
 

Denali n DOO

Member
May 22, 2012
5,596
ch41 said:
Well.... Ran the Gunk engine flush through the oil. I sprayed the lifters with berryman B-12 Chemtool. Drained the oil, put the valve cover back on. Erased the codes and started the engine. It still has no change. I could see the collapsed lifter after removing the valve cover. The second rocker back on cylinder 4 was loose meaning rocking back and forth due to no tension at the push rod. With the lifter collapsed, the pushrod is sitting down and not even touching the bottom of the rocker. So I proceeded to disconnect the fuel injector on cyl 4 to prevent fuel in the exhaust. I drove it down to a local repair shop and asked their opinion and a estimate on repairs. They seemed to think a collapsed lifter as well and quoted $650 per cylinder to change the lifters and $265 for the parts to replace 1 lifter, one head gasket, one roller and some other gasket I believe. So roughly $915 plus tax to replace the one lifter on cylinder 4. :frown:

Glad you found your issue, that sure is a costly repair. What would cause a lifter to collapse? My original engine fail report was " bottom end has damaged bearings and crankshaft is damaged as well block is damaged at lifter".

- - - Updated - - -

ch41 said:
Well.... Ran the Gunk engine flush through the oil. I sprayed the lifters with berryman B-12 Chemtool. Drained the oil, put the valve cover back on. Erased the codes and started the engine. It still has no change. I could see the collapsed lifter after removing the valve cover. The second rocker back on cylinder 4 was loose meaning rocking back and forth due to no tension at the push rod. With the lifter collapsed, the pushrod is sitting down and not even touching the bottom of the rocker. So I proceeded to disconnect the fuel injector on cyl 4 to prevent fuel in the exhaust. I drove it down to a local repair shop and asked their opinion and a estimate on repairs. They seemed to think a collapsed lifter as well and quoted $650 per cylinder to change the lifters and $265 for the parts to replace 1 lifter, one head gasket, one roller and some other gasket I believe. So roughly $915 plus tax to replace the one lifter on cylinder 4. :frown:

Glad you found your issue, that sure is a costly repair. What would cause a lifter to collapse? My original engine fail report was " bottom end has damaged bearings and crankshaft is damaged as well block is damaged at lifter".
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
If they are hydraulic lifters they can just go bad without anything else being really a cause.

That sounds HORRIBLY overpriced. A brand new AC Delco lifter costs 36 bucks from Rock Auto and a head gasket is $30. Where the heck are they coming up with $265 in parts, aside from an exorbitant amount of markup? And the labor? Well, I can sort of see that as most of that is probably just getting it apart and putting it back together, as long as they aren't saying it is $650 per cylinder if you had them do more lifters on that same side of the engine at the same time. The added labor cost for doing all the lifters on one side of the engine should be minimal since the bulk of the work is the removal and installation of the head.

I had all the lifters replaced in my old car for under $1000. Yes, it was a different car, but the engine is also a pain to get to being halfway under the windshield.

Honestly, after seeing that parts cost, I'd be getting a second opinion from another place. Or, if it was me, I'd probably go a little crazy and proceed to figuring out how to replace the lifter myself and save 900 bucks! At that point I'd be inclined to replace all 8 on that side just to be on the safe side.
 

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