Electrical issues after alt change!!!

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
Ok so the whole thing started with my lights flickering at 2k rpms or higher as well as a battery gauge that would nose dive.

I had the battery tested and it was bad. replaced it. no change.
i took out alternator and had it tested and it tested bad. replaced it.

( did T-stat, cts, and upper and lower hoses while i had her opened up.)

checked battery before hooking it up and was full
hooked up batt and started her up and used a clamp on ammeter to check output. 36-40 at idle.
and when i rev her up a bit it climbs to 120+.

however the gauges inside are going crazy
temp,speedo and fuel work ok
batt, tach and oil press ar pegged out
dash lights come on ok and the 4wd switch cycles fine

well that is for a bit, if i rev it up all gauges go dead and the batt light will come on and the airbag light too
and the dome lights go out (if i have them turned on)

so im really frustrated :confused: and pissed :hissyfit: now i just want it to work!
any help is welcome thanks
 

RayVoy

Member
Nov 20, 2011
939
I'll suggest, you have a poor/bad ground connection.

Unfortunately, there are many; you may need to spend some time under the hood, and under the truck, looking for black wires that connect to the frame/body.

Clean and tighten and you should be good to go.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
I think there is also a ground (or two, or three) in/under the dash. I've heard some reference to that kind of thing. I'm sure Roadie would know :undecided:
 

STLtrailbSS

Member
Dec 4, 2011
1,617
Sounds like grounds start with the big boys to rule out those. Wait for May03Lt and Roadie to respond one of them will turn up. Hopefully they can pinpoint for you.
 

RayVoy

Member
Nov 20, 2011
939
Sparky said:
I think there is also a ground (or two, or three) in/under the dash.
That ground is behind the centre console stack, just under the top edge of the carpet
 

MAY03LT

Member
Nov 18, 2011
3,422
Delmarva
Tofer76 said:
....used a clamp on ammeter to check output......when i rev her up a bit it climbs to 120+.

What is the voltage at the battery when this happens?
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
MAY03LT said:
What is the voltage at the battery when this happens?

ok voltages are as follows
key off engine off,,,,,,,,,,12.5
key on engine off,,,,,,,,,,12.1
at idle,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,17.7
reved up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,18.7

and when i was done doing these tests at 445 this morning (cus i could not sleep)
the battery was hissing and boiling (i expected)

also the alt was warm to the touch before i even started messing with it and thats after sitting outside for almost 10 hours untouched ????
 

r-charger

Member
Dec 8, 2011
8
Tofer76 said:
ok voltages are as follows
key off engine off,,,,,,,,,,12.5
key on engine off,,,,,,,,,,12.1
at idle,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,17.7
reved up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,18.7

and when i was done doing these tests at 445 this morning (cus i could not sleep)
the battery was hissing and boiling (i expected)

also the alt was warm to the touch before i even started messing with it and thats after sitting outside for almost 10 hours untouched ????

Ummm.... It shouldn't be more than 14.4-14.7V
I think you've got a faulty new alternator there and it's regulator isn't working too well.

I'd recommend you not drive it until you've had the new alternator tested or replaced (again). The higher voltage can do more to your electronics than boil the new battery dry & peg out some gauges.

As for the alternator being warm... it uses energy from the battery to create a magnetic field by which when the pulley is spinning creates energy. Would seem to me the coil is acting more as a heater coil than an electro-magnet. - again - get the alternator tested first.
 

MAY03LT

Member
Nov 18, 2011
3,422
Delmarva
Tofer76 said:
at idle,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,17.7
reved up,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,18.7

This should have set a P0563 in the pcm. The pcm will not turn on the check engine light for this code.

Following the P0563 diagnostic flow chart, if the voltage is over 19v @ 2,000rpm, replace the generator. The flow chart doesn't say why, but like r-charger said, I suspect a problem with the regulator.

If it were mine, the old alt would be going back in next.:yes:
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
MAY03LT said:
This should have set a P0563 in the pcm. The pcm will not turn on the check engine light for this code.

Following the P0563 diagnostic flow chart, if the voltage is over 19v @ 2,000rpm, replace the generator. The flow chart doesn't say why, but like r-charger said, I suspect a problem with the regulator.

If it were mine, the old alt would be going back in next.:yes:

well i have no codes per my innova 3160 and i cant put the old one back in as i used it for core.
i am going to take it out and runn back to o reilly to have it tested as they couldnt when i got it cuz their machine was down
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
so im back from oreillys w a new new alt that they got to test by using their old part number(i guess they are in a number transition and thats why they couldnt test it before cuz the new number wasnt in their machine)
they tested new alt #1 and it was bad
they tested new alt #2 and is good so i will put it in and see
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
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Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Tofer76 said:
the battery was hissing and boiling (i expected)
The normal current drain of the vehicle isn't more than 30 A, IIRC. No place for >100A to go except into boiling the battery. :eek:

MAY03LT said:
If it were mine, the old alt would be going back in next.:yes:
I'd consider running it with a charged battery and a DISCONNECTED alternator if it was your only way to get off a trail or to the parts store. :yes:
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
Well new alt #2 is in and i checked voltage before starting then i got in and said a prayer to the car gods and it worked

turned key on and all gauges acted normal :thumbsup:
started it and they came to life and read just fine voltmeter reads 14.67 :thumbsup:
i sat there for a min and just watched as it still worked fine
put the pedal to the floor and at 2200 rpms it still worked fine without going dead or cutting out :wootwoot:

went for a drive with my scanner hookd up to watch coolant temps
(as i did t stat and sender)
10 mile drive loop and everything is going good will drive it more this weekend and to work next week and report back any changes

ps changing the t stat really makes a mess!! :eek: and i have a coolant catch pan
 

The_Roadie

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Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Just as a comparison, your post on the SAME ISSUE on the OS gathered only one single response, and that one was wrong. Of course, some of this group's guesses were wrong as well, so we're not perfect. :wink:

But if that isn't a perfect metaphor with where the membership base hangs out, I don't know what is.

I hope you won't feel the need for redundant posts so much as time goes on. :thumbsup:
 

MAY03LT

Member
Nov 18, 2011
3,422
Delmarva
Tofer76 said:
turned key on and all gauges acted normal :thumbsup:
started it and they came to life and read just fine voltmeter reads 14.67 :thumbsup:

Awesome! Thanks for coming back to post the fix.:thumbsup:

the roadie said:
But if that isn't a perfect metaphor with where the membership base hangs out, I don't know what is.

What? I mean that site has tons of info and knowledge that took YEARS to build on.:laugh:
 
Dec 4, 2011
520
the roadie said:
Just as a comparison, your post on the SAME ISSUE on the OS gathered only one single response, and that one was wrong. Of course, some of this group's guesses were wrong as well, so we're not perfect. :wink:

But if that isn't a perfect metaphor with where the membership base hangs out, I don't know what is.

I hope you won't feel the need for redundant posts so much as time goes on. :thumbsup:

Roadie your either physic or lurking. I'm going with lurking. Now I don't feel so bad when I cruise by there once in awhile just to see what's up.
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
mabye not but i figure its the same as taking the original alt to 2 diff oreillys and 2 diff autozones the more ideas and confirmations the better

i only guessed that not Everybody has switched and maybe someone has had the same issues
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
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Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Tofer76 said:
... not Everybody has switched ...
That's true. Lots of folks aren't going to get the word while we build content here and post count to rival them in the Google results. And not everybody gets suspicious when they see my status is BANNED after 28K posts. Experienced forum folks might dig deeper and ask "why", but plenty of noobs won't.

RedEnvoyDenal said:
Roadie your either physic or lurking.
How about both? :biggrin:
I'm going with lurking.
Naturally. EVERYBODY lurks. How else are we going to see when their freshly promoted 500-post Super Moderator steps in it and fails to provide an accurate answer to a technical question?
Now I don't feel so bad when I cruise by there once in awhile just to see what's up.
We all lurk when time allows. We just don't post. We're BANNED. :hissyfit: How ever would we be able to post? :wink: :undecided: :tongue:
 

djthumper

Administrator
Nov 20, 2011
14,956
North Las Vegas
the roadie said:
We all lurk when time allows. We just don't post. We're BANNED. :hissyfit: How ever would we be able to post? :wink: :undecided: :tongue:


Some of us are on Global ignore so our posts are not even seen. New and Old, so they have holes in some of their threads with good info hidden. :tongue:
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
well wife decided to giver a test and run to quincy (about an hour from me) with her mom. so far so good
shes probly tired of me calling and checking on it lol

anyway i did find out that the belt on it was either
1. the original from 02 or
2 replaced at some time with a genuine gm belt

as it has the gm numbers on it however

the number on it is the belt for the 130 amp alt not the 150??
makes me wonder if i had a 130 not the 150 i thought.
what variations of the tb/env had the 150 ?

mine is a 03 envy xl 4wd sle
 

MAY03LT

Member
Nov 18, 2011
3,422
Delmarva
Tofer76 said:
what variations of the tb/env had the 150 ?

All I6s have the 150A alt.

The belt numbers are different because the belt for the LWB trucks (like yours) have a shorter belt then the SWB trucks.
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
MAY03LT said:
All I6s have the 150A alt.

The belt numbers are different because the belt for the LWB trucks (like yours) have a shorter belt then the SWB trucks.

why would the length of the body have anything to do with adding 1.5 inches to the belt??
and if they all came with the 150 why is there a 130 option?
also when i got my belt they didnt ask what wheel base i had they asked what alt i had

confused lol

if you look it up on the orielly site it calls for either 130 or 150 amp alt but does not ask for wheelbase
 

MAY03LT

Member
Nov 18, 2011
3,422
Delmarva
Tofer76 said:
why would the length of the body have anything to do with adding 1.5 inches to the belt??
and if they all came with the 150 why is there a 130 option?
also when i got my belt they didnt ask what wheel base i had they asked what alt i had

confused lol

if you look it up on the orielly site it calls for either 130 or 150 amp alt but does not ask for wheelbase

The diameter of the power steering pump pulley is different between the LWB and SWB, hence the belt difference.

I recall reading that the 130A option was a blunder by a cataloging company.

I believe you about what Oriellys says without even checking, my parts sources say the same thing. I don't rely on their catalogs at all.
 
Dec 4, 2011
520
the roadie said:
That's true. Lots of folks aren't going to get the word while we build content here and post count to rival them in the Google results. And not everybody gets suspicious when they see my status is BANNED after 28K posts. Experienced forum folks might dig deeper and ask "why", but plenty of noobs won't.

How about both? :biggrin:Naturally. EVERYBODY lurks. How else are we going to see when their freshly promoted 500-post Super Moderator steps in it and fails to provide an accurate answer to a technical question?We all lurk when time allows. We just don't post. We're BANNED. :hissyfit: How ever would we be able to post? :wink: :undecided: :tongue:

Sorry just realized you are signing on as guest. I am not banned so I still sign on as usual. Keep up the good work here it is feeling as comfortable as the OS.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
MAY03LT said:
The diameter of the power steering pump pulley is different between the LWB and SWB, hence the belt difference.

I recall reading that the 130A option was a blunder by a cataloging company.

I believe you about what Oriellys says without even checking, my parts sources say the same thing. I don't rely on their catalogs at all.

so does it matter what belt i put on it really? will it affect performance having a 1.5 in xtra?

i returned the short one for the long one based on the call for the 150A alt as their comp states and put it on so i cant return it but if im hurting the car i will change it out
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
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Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Tofer76 said:
so does it matter what belt i put on it really? ...
Yes. :confused: A too-short belt might not even go on without using up all the adjustment angle of the tensioner pulley. A too-long belt will slip under load. Belts are a no-substitutes-allowed kind of item.
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
the roadie said:
Yes. :confused: A too-short belt might not even go on without using up all the adjustment angle of the tensioner pulley. A too-long belt will slip under load. Belts are a no-substitutes-allowed kind of item.

i understand that but im talking about the 2 belts offered. the short one does go on but its a tight fit , but from what ou are telling me the short one is for the lwb
and the long one is for the swb
but the long one is listed for the 150 a alt
and the short one for 130
so no matter which way you look at it its wrong

i guess i will just stay w the longer one for now unless it poses problems
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
There is no 130 amp RPO code alternator listed for 2003.

RPO Codes;
KG3 = 145 amps
KG4 = 150 amps

The biggest problem, IMHO, will be the belt wearing sooner from slipping and possibly coming off from lack of tension, if you use the long (wrong) belt on your XL.

That would cause engine over heating and possibly being stranded. :twocents:
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
Wooluf1952 said:
There is no 130 amp RPO code alternator listed for 2003.

RPO Codes;
KG3 = 145 amps
KG4 = 150 amps

The biggest problem, IMHO, will be the belt wearing sooner from slipping and possibly coming off from lack of tension, if you use the long (wrong) belt on your XL.

That would cause engine over heating and possibly being stranded. :twocents:

so it doesnt matter what alt i have then i should go by the wheel base?
long wheelbase use short belt
short wheel base use long belt
right ?
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
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Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Tofer76 said:
so it doesnt matter what alt i have then i should go by the wheel base?
long wheelbase use short belt
short wheel base use long belt
right ?
Exactly. The parts stores that ask the alternator question are wrong. There's a lot of that going around. We fight misinformation constantly. :cool:
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
ok then anyone wanna buy a swb belt ? has about 50 miles on it. i cant return it as it has been used
 

RayVoy

Member
Nov 20, 2011
939
Tofer76 said:
ok then anyone wanna buy a swb belt ? has about 50 miles on it. i cant return it as it has been used

I always keep my last old belt as a spare, even though you have the wrong belt, it will work and, as a spare, it will get you home.
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
RayVoy said:
I always keep my last old belt as a spare, even though you have the wrong belt, it will work and, as a spare, it will get you home.

good point think i will put the old one back on and keep the new longer one as a back up and if the old one breaks or starts to squeel ill replace:thumbsup:
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
ok got another question .... anyones alternator wait about 5 to 10 seconds after starting to start charging?? mine is and its seems longer if its colder out . the lights will be dim then a few sec later the gauge will jump up and it will brighten up
is this normal?
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Tofer76 said:
ok got another question .... anyones alternator wait about 5 to 10 seconds after starting to start charging?? mine is and its seems longer if its colder out . the lights will be dim then a few sec later the gauge will jump up and it will brighten up
is this normal?

That's normal. It helps reduce the load on the engine until The RPM's get up.
 

Tofer76

Original poster
Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
Wooluf1952 said:
That's normal. It helps reduce the load on the engine until The RPM's get up.

ok i was a bit worried as my stock alt didnt do that
 

RayVoy

Member
Nov 20, 2011
939
Tofer76 said:
ok i was a bit worried as my stock alt didnt do that
Your stock alt would have done that as well, it is not noticeable in the warm weather.
It is actually the PCM that controls this feature, not the alt.
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
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Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Tofer76 said:
ok i was a bit worried as my stock alt didnt do that
Did you own the vehicle last winter? Actually, I think you are the first one to ask this question on the new forum! It was one of the questions we most enjoyed answering on the OS, because it's vehicle behavior that could appear very serious and hard to track down and possibly expensive to fix. And then we can gleefully tell the member the good news!

I believe the alternator will behave like a normal one if the wire to the PCM breaks or the suppression circuit fails, so it's not impossible for your old one to work that way.
 

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