Dead vehicle

[CarbEnvoy]

Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions here.

Yesterday, we had been driving our Voy around a few times with no problems. Then we went to a store, and when we came back out it just wouldn't turn over. There's still power, and I can hear a relay click in the engine compartment when my wife turned the key, but the starter doesn't engage at all.

Nothing seemed to indicate that anything was wrong with the starter prior to this occurring. Although, it has been getting very poor gas mileage lately.

Any suggestions on where to start? It's been sitting in the parking lot of the store overnight. Ironically, it's at Canadian Tire!

 

[signalnc]

check you battery for voltage-could be a bad cell.....-I used to tap starters on older vehicles with a hammer, sometimes it would get it to engage, not sure if that trick will work on your voy

 

[Voymom]

Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions here.

Yesterday, we had been driving our Voy around a few times with no problems. Then we went to a store, and when we came back out it just wouldn't turn over. There's still power, and I can hear a relay click in the engine compartment when my wife turned the key, but the starter doesn't engage at all.

Nothing seemed to indicate that anything was wrong with the starter prior to this occurring. Although, it has been getting very poor gas mileage lately.

Any suggestions on where to start? It's been sitting in the parking lot of the store overnight. Ironically, it's at Canadian Tire!

I would also suggest checking some other things once you get the truck started and home. The poor gas mileage could be a bad t-stat, leak, or any other number of issues, has it had all regular maintenance, how many miles are on it?

I would also have the battery and alternator checked and go from there.

 

[NewfieEnvoy]

Possible ignition switch failure? I haven't replaced mine yet but apparently some members carry a spare in the glove box, they're that common to fail.

 

[The_Roadie]

If the clicking under the hood is the starter relay, and the voltage as measured by a voltmeter at the battery isn't collapsing, then it could very well be the wiring to the starter or the starter. It all begins with identifying the clicking, and measuring the voltage.

 

[CarbEnvoy]

Thanks for all the replies. I suspect the starter or wiring to the starter. It had been starting fine all day, so to suddenly not start seems weird.

I've had clicking from the fan clutch, so I probably need to replace that.

It has regular maintenance. Replaced spark plugs, cleaned the throttle body, changed fluids just a year ago. Also replaced the ignition switch 2 years ago, but this is acting differently than that time.

The truck has just over 160,000kms, so right around 100,000 miles.

Going to go try get it started right now. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[The_Roadie]

Bring your meter. If you don't have one, one will be provided to you at low cost by the nearest Harbor Freight store.

 

[CarbEnvoy]

So went to check out the voy. I measured the voltage at the battery before doing anything and it was 11.86v. Then tried to start it and it fired right up. Measured the voltage again while running and it's getting 14.4 to 14.6 volts. Could the low voltage have prevented it from starting? It was dark at the time, so all the lights were on while trying to start it.

Sounds like a faulty battery maybe? It's less than a year old I think. Guess it will be a warranty return.

Could the fan clutch issue be causing really poor gas mileage? Like 20l/100km or 11.76 US mpg. This is around town.

It did seem like the fan was engaging while I was checking the voltage, it suddenly got louder while I had the hood up.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[The_Roadie]

So went to check out the voy. I measured the voltage at the battery before doing anything and it was 11.86v.

Shouldn't have been that low if it had been failing to start, unless you used up 20+ minutes worth of headlights in the attempts.

Then tried to start it and it fired right up.

Intermittent problems tend to behave that way.

Measured the voltage again while running and it's getting 14.4 to 14.6 volts.

That's normal.

Could the low voltage have prevented it from starting?

Low voltage DURING the attempt caused by the starter running could cause problems, but that isn't a particularly low voltage for an attempt to work in cold weather. Not great, but it should at least have clicked the starter and made a chattering noise. Low batteries trying to start an other wise good starting system usually go through a chattering phase.

It was dark at the time, so all the lights were on while trying to start it.

No need for that. I often suppress the headlights to preserve battery power if I think it's going to be dicey.

Sounds like a faulty battery maybe? It's less than a year old I think. Guess it will be a warranty return.

Still could be wiring or the starter.

Could the fan clutch issue be causing really poor gas mileage? Like 20l/100km or 11.76 US mpg. This is around town.

Usually not.

It did seem like the fan was engaging while I was checking the voltage, it suddenly got louder while I had the hood up.

That's normal behavior, as long as it makes less noise in a minute or two. If the AC compressor engages, it gives the fan clutch a blip of engagement.

 

[CarbEnvoy]

Well, I had the battery tested at the store where I bought it, and they said it was bad. Has 3 year replacement so they gave me a new battery as it's been less than a year since I bought it. I thought this would solve the problem, and it did, drove the voy out to get a couple things and came home no problems. then we went to leave for supper and it wouldn't start again.

Same as before. Everything turns on, but nothing from the starter. (Maybe the battery was ok? Oh well, they tested it and said it was toast) I had someone listen to the starter relay while i turned the key and he said it was clicking.

So it appears that there is something wrong with the wiring to the starter, or with the stater i guess. I tried tapping on it, but that didn't make a difference.

Guess I should pick up a new starter, or check some wiring.

Any other words of wisdom?

 

[jbacklund]

Start with checking the wiring. Make sure the connections are tight so it can handle the current.

 

[signalnc]

check all your connections as jback said, but you also need to check the voltage on your battery again to make sure you don't have a short somewhere draining it. I'm sure there is a relay or two that if it went bad would produce these symptoms, so it may not be the starter.

 

[limequat]

You need a meter.

Check voltage at the starter.

Then check resistance between the engine block and the battery neg terminal. Should be virtually zero.

Pull the wire off the solenoid and make sure it's actually going to 12V in crank.

There's probably a dozen tests you could do, but you need a meter first.

 

[NJTB]

Well, I had the battery tested at the store where I bought it, and they said it was bad. Has 3 year replacement so they gave me a new battery as it's been less than a year since I bought it. I thought this would solve the problem, and it did, drove the voy out to get a couple things and came home no problems. then we went to leave for supper and it wouldn't start again.

Same as before. Everything turns on, but nothing from the starter. (Maybe the battery was ok? Oh well, they tested it and said it was toast) I had someone listen to the starter relay while i turned the key and he said it was clicking.

So it appears that there is something wrong with the wiring to the starter, or with the stater i guess. I tried tapping on it, but that didn't make a difference.

Guess I should pick up a new starter, or check some wiring.

Any other words of wisdom?

Remove the battery cables and look for corrosion near the ends of the cable, and on the battery. If you see 'green powder', replace the cable. Do this on both cables.
Do you have the means to load test the cables? It's a test to be sure the cable will carry full amperage to the starter.
Better yet, for the cost, replace the cables with the same gauge wire.
Remove the cable from the starter and clean it well (disconnect the battery FIRST), and clean the other connections on the starter.
Pull the starter relay and look at the terminals on the relay and where it plugs in. Any melting?
If all that checks out, remove the starter and have it tested, or replace it.

 

[The_Roadie]

Any other words of wisdom?

The problem is very narrowed down, but it is NOT the battery. If the battery store gave you a new one, what did THEY say was wrong with the old one? It wasn't the battery and it's not a mystery drain issue from a bad relay as long as the lights are on and the voltage recovers after you release the key. It's what has been posted in many responses. Is there any reason you HAVEN'T gone into the wiring at the starter? It's cold and dirty down there?

 

[CarbEnvoy]

The store put the battery on some machine to test it's capacity, and cranking amps. It said the battery was bad and they replaced it under the 3 year free replacement warranty. This is it Canadian Tire, a national chain here in Canada.

My next steps are to check the wiring at the starter, I just didn't get a chance this weekend. Busy doing other family stuff. I'll be working on it this week and I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[CarbEnvoy]

Ok, made some time to get down into the engine bay tonight and check the wiring.

Connections were all tight, and no corrosion anywhere.

Voltage on the main cable is the same as the battery itself, with the negative test lead on the battery - terminal.

Voltage on the purple wire is only 11.59 to 11.61 while in crank. I had it disconnected from the starter. So maybe there is a problem with this wire somewhere? Not getting full voltage?

The relay looks fine, no obvious signs of melting.

I should say, the battery was down to 11.9 volts prior to doing the tests. But it started and I let it run for about 10 minutes, then pulled it into my garage. When I shut it off, the battery voltage was measuring 12.1 during all my tests.

I didn't check the resistance between the engine block and the battery negative lead, I'll have to go back out and check that. Checked and resistance is nil.

I went ahead and puled the starter out anyway, and the solder points on the solenoid look cracked a bit, but I don't know what affect this might have.

I'm leaning towards it being the starter, and not the wire, but I look to the opinions of you who are much more experienced than me