Another front end noise issue (common issues already addressed)

[d-wreck08]

I have an 02 Envoy 4X4 with 146k miles and have been getting a rattle, from the front passenger side, while driving on bumpy roads. I have searched high and low through forums and have even taken my envoy to the GM dealer to see if i could pin point the problem. After all of this I have replace both sway bar ends, and both upper and lower ball joints on the passenger side (all Moog replacement parts) with no change in the noise. I have rechecked the torque on the sway bar ends, still fine. This noise, to the best of what I can tell, is not related to turning, accelerating, braking or even speed. The noise is there going 35 down a rough paved road or it will do it briefly when i hit a pothole on the highway doing 70 mph. I am somewhat lost on where to look next and would be great full for any insight or info.

One last bit of useful information: I have only had my envoy for a few months, and the past months have also been a mild winter in northern Ohio but over this past weekend the weather has jumped from an average of 30-40's to 50-60's and after a 3 hour trip this weekend in the warmer weather the noise seemed to almost go away completely. I searched on this a little and found other vehicles will do this when the bearings in the strut mount are going bad or are bad, I just could not find any info on this about an envoy.

 

[gmcman]

I would support that side by the lower control arm to keep the suspension loaded. Then pullon the wheel top and bottom then front and back and check for parts moving.

Could be the tie rod end or still a sway bar link. Another idea is the front struts....have they been changed?

 

[d-wreck08]

I did jack up on the a-arm and test this before I did the ball joints. I got a little up a down movement (hence the replacing ball joints) but everything else seemed normal. On an unrelated note I tested my driver side, the same way, and did get some movement back and forth, possibly a tie rod end going bad.

My next best guess was to dig into replacing the struts, being the salted roads from these parts have rusted them badly, not that I think its causing the problem, but with such high mileage (and not knowing when they were done last for sure) it's on my to-do list any which way. I just wish there was a way to test this and be sure it is going to fix the problem for sure this time.

If I do go this route I would be replacing struts and the mounts obviously..

 

[Sparky]

If the shocks are original, they are past due for replacement anyway, so if it fits the budget I'd replace them regardless of whether they were the actual source of the noise or not. You'd be taking apart various other things to get to them anyway and that might bring the source to light if it isn't the shock assembly. And shocks can have an annoying rattle to them if they have gone bad, I've had that happen before.

Good call on getting new mounts. I never recommend doing front shocks/struts without planning on new mounts because they are usually pretty beat. The first time I ever did front shocks I didn't plan on new mounts, so then I got to have the car on jackstands longer while waiting for overpriced parts to arrive the next day

 

[The_Roadie]

You've gone through the items I would have mentioned except an obscure one. Go wiggle the inboard end of the passenger CV shaft, where it enters what we call the "splined disconnect" on the side of the oil pan. The seals on these can die, then grit gets in and damages the bearing, and we've had reports of noise like yours where the CV shaft can be wiggled around by 1/2".

 

[d-wreck08]

Ok, thanks for the advice so far. I went out and wiggled my CV shaft on both passenger and driver side, the passenger side did wiggle a little, with a "clank" noise if I wiggled hard enough. It didn't move anywhere near a half inch or anything but I could get it to "clank". I would be hard pressed to even guess how little it move by just looking at it. The driver side, on the other hand, did wiggle a little less and without the "clank" noise.

With that being said the "clank" noise I was hearing did not sound similar, or at all, like what I hear when I am driving down the road. While driving down the road would that noise change though? I am not sure, also note I tested it with all 4 wheels on the ground.

About the struts and mounts, I do have a few questions yet, I will list what I'm thinking and have found searching forums to make it easy.

shock absorbers: Bilstein Part #: W0133-1911198 x2 (these where a little more difficult to find online then I would have thought, found them for $66 each and free shipping though)
shock mount: Here's my biggest question, RockAuto has this "Shock Mount Kit" MONROE Part # 904968 or just the "Shock Mount" MOOG Part # K6702 I'm not sure which would be a better choice, or if a different choice all together would be best. I'm open to suggestions here.

One last thing for roadie specifically, The picture you have posted elsewhere of the strut removal tool, I can't for the life of me find a link to the actual tool and was wondering if you could confirm this is it: Amazon.com: Lisle 41900 Pitman Arm Puller: Automotive and/or if I would be likely to find it at my local parts store?

Thanks again for all the help so far.

 

[Sparky]

I used the Moog mounts myself. My past experience with a Monroe mount wasn't too great on my previous car (didn't fit right).

 

[RayVoy]

Sounds (no pun intended, hehe) to me, like a sheet metal problem.

Look at the hood, maybe the hood stops need to be adjusted,

look at the fender, maybe it's hitting something,

look at the inside of the bumper, maybe something in there is loose,

check the exhaust pipes, maybe something is loose and hitting a pipe,

check the transmission crossbar it might be lose.

 

[The_Roadie]

That's the tool. Most of my local parts stores will rent you one for no charge except a deposit equal to the price of the tool. Or you can whack at the bottom side of the strut mount with a BFH and scare it into leaving the tapered pin.

 

[d-wreck08]

Ok, sounds like I have a weekend project then, if I can get the struts and mounts shipped by then (I have a good feeling they need to be replaced any which way). I have looked around at fender/bumper/hood and did find that the front right bumper mount was actually not securely in place, I popped it back in hoping to solve my problems but that didn't do the trick. I will double check the transmission cross member and exhaust though.

I actually am lucky enough that the manager at my local GM service center is a member of the family and he drove it after I had replaced the sway bar ends and before I did the ball joints on the passenger side and his recommendation was the ball joints, but that hasn't done the trick either. Before bugging him again I wanted to try and pin point the problem more. And being as the noise has seemed to get better with warmer weather I can't help but think the struts and/or mounts are the culprit (maybe I'm way off with that guess as I am no expert). Maybe I'll let it go for a bit longer and see what I notice.

I will be sure and get back when I have more info, thanks for all the help. Any other input would be much appreciated.

 

[DMD_TB]

instead of starting a whole new thread to cover basicly the same thing i thought i would chime in on this hope thats alright, a long time ago on the OS i posted a thread trying to fiqure out a squeak i have in my front end, and during that thread we found that my passanger CV shaft was shot and also my spline disc. was also shot, i have replaced all of that a long time ago, but i still have the squeak, since fixing the cv shaft and such i have replaced all of the struts with beilstein hd's all the way around, added marks new lift and have put 265 mudhogs on my TB, but the the phantom squeak is still there i have a set MOOG sway bar bushings for the front on there way along with smaxx endlinks for the front to see if that fixes it..

i also have noticed that my uper ball joints are basicly shot too, could that be it? maybe control arm bushings?

any ideas?

thanks guys

 

[Sparky]

I suspect the bushings. Mine creak.

 

[The_Roadie]

any ideas?

The threaded hood bump stops in the corners are implicated in a LOT of mystery front end squeaks. Grease or adjust them upwards a tiny bit.

 

[DMD_TB]

I suspect the bushings. Mine creak.

the control arm bushings or sway bar bushings?

The threaded hood bump stops in the corners are implicated in a LOT of mystery front end squeaks. Grease or adjust them upwards a tiny bit.

ahh if that is the case im gunna freak i never thought of that even though i have read it about it in a ton of posts...:banghead:

 

[Sparky]

Control arm bushings. My lower ones are the noise makers on the front passenger side. They just make noise, but they still work ok, so I haven't bothered with them. I figure I'll take stuff like that apart when I'm not relying on the TB as my only means of transportation!

 

[d-wreck08]

Hey I just wanted to jump back on here and update now that I have had some time to work on the envoy.

I ended up going with the Monroe Quick-Strut assembly Part # 171341 for a replacement. Made it much easier to replace and with the Monroe safety first rebate going on now until 4/30/12 I will have only invested about $104 for each (Got them online from partsgeek.com and will never buy from them again just to save a few bucks, awful customer service. RockAuto had them for 15 total bucks more). I couldn't justify turning down this deal right now. Once I replaced them I could notice a difference just driving out of my driveway, no more bouncing all around, they clearly needed to be done.

Furthermore they did get rid of most of all of the noise I was hearing (The noise would come and go depending on the outside temperature).

While doing this repair though I did notice the actual sway bar bushings seemed pretty worn and in need of replacement. I had to put an order in at my local O'Reilly store to get the Moog replacements (cost roughly $12 for both, they come in 1 box as a "kit") I swapped them out this morning and went for a drive and viola, drives and rides even better with no suspicious noise what so ever.

In conclusion, I wish I would have started with the sway bar bushings, the only reason being it was a cheap quick fix with noticeable improvements even after the replacing the struts. Any which way, in my case it all had to be done so all is good, but for anyone else this could be a place to start.

 

[bullguy]

Hi Folks,
i want to change my front Sway bar Bushing,can any body kindly advice me the tools needed and the procedure if possible.
Thanks