Had some milky residue contained within my air intake tube coming from what I assume to be the pcv valve. I then opened the oil cap to find the same buttery substance on the inside of the cap. Granted I bought this '07 Trailblazer for cheap from what I consider a second father to me, so I am not too worried about cost of repairs, I am a manager at Autozone so parts are not bad and I can do labor with the mechanics I have come to know while working there, but I digress. Naturally I got a compression tester and checked the compression in the cylinders. Cylinders 1-3 had a compression of 165, cylinder 4 had a compression of 200. Due to the lack of short extensions I could not get to the rear cylinders. I already know that the compression average is 210, minimum 150, and varience of 10%. I am just wondering, if Head gasket is bad how can the cylinders be within the accepted compression yet still pull anifreeze? New to this site, btw and I absolutely love being a GM guy now because of this site.
4.2 Head Gasket?
- Thread starter Justin_kyllo
- Start date
I confirmed, the the top end has some milky residue, unsure how much until I pull the valve cover off. I can also see traces of buttery residue on the dipstick but not a lot. It has 185000 miles on it so I knew something like this was going to happen. Will replace all gaskets, timing stuff, head bolts, cam actuator, and the normal stuff. Any hints or suggestions or cautions on what to look out for?
The SUV ran fine when I drove it, no hesitation at all. Had a few engine lights, one was the cam actuator over advanced which I read could be because the oil may be thicker since the antifreeze got in there and is gumming up the port. Another was the obvious fuel sender low input. Last was a iac code, granted they have that electric throttle body now so I figured I would just clean it. That's when I noticed the butter. I am just wondering how it ran perfectly fine with antifreeze getting into the oil, normally when they go out you can feel performance issues. Unless it is just the beginning of a head gasket failure. That I do not know. I guess I'll keep updating as the process goes forward just in case anyone is curious. Head gasket and head bolts came in today. So it shouldn't be long until I get into it.
Texan
Member
- Jan 14, 2014
- 622
Justin_kyllo said:
I would suggest that you research the head R&R subject. What is the maintenance history of the vehicle?
Has it been loosing antifreeze? The timing chain & cam timing needs to be reviewed. The head bolts tend
to twist off. I would solve the other issues first.
Texan said:
Maintenance issues have been dealt with through professional garages, I am the second owner. Minimal loss of antifreeze, no leaks. I have reviewed a lot of the head R&R subject just so I know what to expect. All other issues besides the fuel pump sender have been fixed. I hear they finally sent out a recall according to the original owner but only covers mileage under 150k. I'll just reset the trip and refill every 300 miles.
Texan said:
I figured it was just condensation at first. Since this cold front has been going back and forth, and I am sure the vehicle just sat for around a week. After checking the compression in the cylinders I just assumed it was a head gasket. A variance of 20% between cylinders kind of hints at a weak or dissolving head gasket or block/cylinder problems. As well, I see traces of the milky substance on the dipstick so that would further confirm my suspicions right? I may be completely off base, so feel free to correct me.
The milky substance had a strong odor of antifreeze as well. Maybe it is an intake gasket leaking since those damned things are plastic, who knows. I figure either way preventative maintenance could not hurt right?
Texan said:
Humidity wouldn't differ that much from West Virginia, I would assume a little less humid.
IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
Justin_kyllo said:
Heat doesn't necessarily correlate with humidity. But I don't know specifically how weather patterns go, I'm not a meteorologist
I too get some of the "milk" on my oil fill cap, and in the hose. Never/very rarely on the dipstick (it's usually at the top of the tube and your dipstick catches it on the way out) and never fouled oil, coolant is good and has never changed levels on me.
Keep an eye on it but unless your oil drain shows water fouling, I'd mark it up as another point for this rather common occurrence on this platform. Condensation naturally sneaks in in small amounts into the motor, where it is heated up and rises to the top, taking some of the gases and oil with it sometimes which is where the color comes from, and why it gels up the way it does. At least this gelling retains some of the moisture instead of letting it all accumulate over time in the crankcase.
Wooluf1952
Member
triz said:
There is a PCV system, but no PCV valve. IIRC, that's the reason the throttle body gets so gummed up.
Also, if most of the driving is short trips, that also contributes to the moisture in the oil cap along with the design of the I6.
Texan
Member
- Jan 14, 2014
- 622
Justin_kyllo said:
I do not want to correct you, but I would suggest that before you pull the head, you do more checking
of easier things. What is the compression in #5 & #6. What were the actual CEL codes. The intake manifold
gasket has no relation to anti-freeze. I would drain the oil and look for water/anti-freeze. I can think of other
things tomorrow. Pass my bed time. I mean no offense.
Texan said:
No offense taken at all. You are right, I guess there is no water jackets around a straight six intake. I had:
P0014 - Cam Phase Angle exceeded tolerance value, I pulled the actuator and cleaned it like a thread I saw on here. Still shows up as pending, so thinking oil passage blocked by excessive crankcase moisture, or actual stretched timing chain.
P0506 - IAC circuit condition - cleaned the throttle body, and that seemed to go away for now (didn't leave it running for too long). This is where I saw the butter, as I call it.
P1400 - Cold start emission reduction control system - Seemed to go away when cleaning the throttle body
P0326 - Knock sensor condition - Assuming has to do with the cam advance or bad knock sensor. Not on or pending after cleaning throttle body.
Thinking of getting a block tester tomorrow as well in order to see if there is any exhaust fumes getting into my radiator.
IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
p0014 wouldn't (shouldn't) show up for a stretched timing chain. Some stretch is allowed anyway as long as no gears have skipped a tooth - chains for this purpose can just be imagined as another gear just operating in a different manner, there's so many links in the chain just like there's so many teeth in a gear, and is pretty much a way to connect two or more gears without having them in direct contact or reversing direction.
The p0014 actually involves the cam phasing angle - it doesn't detect the actual position of the camshaft itself, but what the cam phaser angle is vs what the commanded angle is. There are three primary parts. The CPAS, which acts as a valve to direct oil to the cam phaser. The cam position sensor, I believe it's a Hall Effect sensor that detects what angle the cam phaser is at, and the cam phaser itself which turns to adjust the camshaft.
Imagine the sprocket which turns the exhaust camshaft, at 0 degrees rotation (let's say this is with the timing dot pointing perfectly up). At this moment, with the phaser doing nothing, the camshaft could also be imagined to be at 0 degrees rotation. But if the phaser would advance or retard the timing, the sprocket itself could be at 0 degrees while the camshaft itself would be at +/- x degrees. The cam phaser has a few bits around the outer edge which the cam sensor detects to know where the cam phaser is in relation to the rest of the system.
I don't mean to inundate you with information or belittle your knowledge in any way, I just hope that explaining the operation of the system may better help you understand the p0014 code. Most of the time it is indeed the CPAS, and cleaning doesn't always bring it back 100%. Sometimes dirty/fouled oil can affect the operation, or sometimes the part is just kinda worn out (the solenoid may not be working as well anymore). Then after that is the cam sensor, sometimes it goes out and can cause the p0014 according to some posts around here. If those options are exhausted, it may be the phaser itself, which is a rather expensive part and also very costly in terms of time to replace (and not a simple job either!). If you have fouled oil, this could very likely cause a p0014 since the system wouldn't be getting good oil to operate with.
The p0326 shouldn't involve the VVT in any way. The conditions for setting it is either getting a reading of <0.01v or >4.99v. It could very well be a loose wire somewhere, and thinking on that it could be a loose wire affecting your VVT also.
And "butter" in/near your throttle body? Now that might be a cause for some concern. Mine had nothing of the sort near that, just a little that came out of the hose that connects to the front of the resonator.
The p0014 actually involves the cam phasing angle - it doesn't detect the actual position of the camshaft itself, but what the cam phaser angle is vs what the commanded angle is. There are three primary parts. The CPAS, which acts as a valve to direct oil to the cam phaser. The cam position sensor, I believe it's a Hall Effect sensor that detects what angle the cam phaser is at, and the cam phaser itself which turns to adjust the camshaft.
Imagine the sprocket which turns the exhaust camshaft, at 0 degrees rotation (let's say this is with the timing dot pointing perfectly up). At this moment, with the phaser doing nothing, the camshaft could also be imagined to be at 0 degrees rotation. But if the phaser would advance or retard the timing, the sprocket itself could be at 0 degrees while the camshaft itself would be at +/- x degrees. The cam phaser has a few bits around the outer edge which the cam sensor detects to know where the cam phaser is in relation to the rest of the system.
I don't mean to inundate you with information or belittle your knowledge in any way, I just hope that explaining the operation of the system may better help you understand the p0014 code. Most of the time it is indeed the CPAS, and cleaning doesn't always bring it back 100%. Sometimes dirty/fouled oil can affect the operation, or sometimes the part is just kinda worn out (the solenoid may not be working as well anymore). Then after that is the cam sensor, sometimes it goes out and can cause the p0014 according to some posts around here. If those options are exhausted, it may be the phaser itself, which is a rather expensive part and also very costly in terms of time to replace (and not a simple job either!). If you have fouled oil, this could very likely cause a p0014 since the system wouldn't be getting good oil to operate with.
The p0326 shouldn't involve the VVT in any way. The conditions for setting it is either getting a reading of <0.01v or >4.99v. It could very well be a loose wire somewhere, and thinking on that it could be a loose wire affecting your VVT also.
And "butter" in/near your throttle body? Now that might be a cause for some concern. Mine had nothing of the sort near that, just a little that came out of the hose that connects to the front of the resonator.
IllogicTC said:
No butter in the throttle body, the process and steps I took in order to get to the throttle body to clean it lead me to the discovery of the milky residue. It was contained within the crankcase ventilation tube.
IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
Justin_kyllo said:
Oh. Okay then, right where I had found a little in mine, too.
I just got done reading another thread talking about how excess water (from moisture/condensation) collected in their tube and then froze in cold temperatures and ended up leading to blowing oil all over the passenger side of the engine bay.
Now I'm pretty set on resonator checks being routine maintenance to minimize the water build-up (and the "goop" too).
Still curious on why I wouldn't consider changing my head gasket if the milky substance smelt like antifreeze. Am I missing something? The only way it would smell like antifreeze is if there were a leak allowing the antifreeze to enter the oil right? Basic condensation would just cause a color change.
Texan
Member
- Jan 14, 2014
- 622
I think that this may be my last comment on this subject.
I may be behind times, but to do a compression test on a auto engine, you remove all of the plugs
to allow the engine to spin freely. You stated that you did not remove #5 & #6. The 10% +/- tolerance
was when the car left the factory thru 36K miles. You are about 150,000 miles past that point. You state
very little coolant lost. If you want to install a new head gasket, go for it. If it was mine, I would drain the
oil into a clear container and let is sit for a few days and see if any water settles out. In the mean time,
put new 5w-30 oil in it with a flush treatment and see what the results are. Good luck.
I may be behind times, but to do a compression test on a auto engine, you remove all of the plugs
to allow the engine to spin freely. You stated that you did not remove #5 & #6. The 10% +/- tolerance
was when the car left the factory thru 36K miles. You are about 150,000 miles past that point. You state
very little coolant lost. If you want to install a new head gasket, go for it. If it was mine, I would drain the
oil into a clear container and let is sit for a few days and see if any water settles out. In the mean time,
put new 5w-30 oil in it with a flush treatment and see what the results are. Good luck.
Texan said:
The spark plugs may cause a slight compression when not taken out, hindering the crankshafts movement which means you just have to turn it over more to build compression. When I say very little is lost, I bought the car in Ohio, drove it 200 miles to Kentucky and saw the gunk. Radiator was full when I left and full when I arrived. The coolant recovery tank was full when I left and slightly down from the full line when I got home. Maybe thats a lot, It was only 200 miles... I am not trying to be an asshole, I truely am not. Seems like people have a lot more knowledge and experience than I do, thats why I posted. But it seems like everyone is telling me not to dig into the gaskets but cant tell me what else would cause the gunk to smell like straight antifreeze. Condensation wouldn't, it would just turn the color. 10% tolerance in cylinders is the maximum allowable tolerance between the highest compression cylinder and lowest.
Justin_kyllo said:
I think you're putting the cart before the horse. The 3 most simple ways to tell if you need to change the head gasket are:
1. Chocolate milk looking oil. Drain the engine oil and tell us what it looks like.
2. White smoke coming from the exhaust (coolant leaking into the combustion chamber).
3. The coolant in the radiator or the overflow looking like chocolate milk.
There are some other ways, but those are the 3 primary. I've been watching your thread the last couple of days and everyone seems to be reccomending to you to do the same thing. Drain the oil. Check it FIRST. Just because there's some gunk in the throttle body, airbox, in the oil fill cap or even on the dipstick doesn't mean you have a head gasket problem.
Secondly, let's talk the compression test. There is almost 200,000 miles on the engine. This isn't a low compression (8.3:1) honda or toyota 4 cylinder motor that will run for 1 million miles. It is a relatively high compression engine (10:1). This causes some extra wear and tear on things like pistons rings, valves and valve seals. Your loss of compression is more likely piston ring or valve train related.
If the previously mentioned 3 items DO NOT come up indicating you have a bad head gasket, then accept the fact that you have a high mileage vehicle that is showing its wear and tear. The average American puts between 12,000 and 15,000 miles on a vehicle a year. The vehicle you bought is damn near double that. I undertsnad the desire to want your vehicle to be in as good of shape and as reliable as possible, but you have to ask yourself if it's worth being so methodical about it. Does it drive? Is it safe? Are you getting an average of 15mpg? If so, press on with life. Instead of dumping money into this vehicle and allowing it to nickel and dime you, use it to your advantage to save up for that MClaren F1.
Edit to add: One other way of checking for a head gasket or head problem is watch your overflow bottle for bubbles while the engine is running.
IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
Do you see any of this?
Antifreeze in oil:
View attachment 32749
View attachment 32750
White smoke from exhaust:
View attachment 32751
Oil in coolant (may not always look like this, but definitely wouldn't be the regular Dexcool red/pink color)
View attachment 32752
If not, relax. Seriously, an oil change costs $30 worth of stuff rather than tons of time (and time is money) plus the change on a head gasket, and more for a new set of TTY bolts, and can tell you a lot more than conjecture on moisture in the oil cap will (and moisture in the oil cap is fairly common).
Antifreeze in oil:
View attachment 32749
View attachment 32750
White smoke from exhaust:
View attachment 32751
Oil in coolant (may not always look like this, but definitely wouldn't be the regular Dexcool red/pink color)
View attachment 32752
If not, relax. Seriously, an oil change costs $30 worth of stuff rather than tons of time (and time is money) plus the change on a head gasket, and more for a new set of TTY bolts, and can tell you a lot more than conjecture on moisture in the oil cap will (and moisture in the oil cap is fairly common).
Attachments
IllogicTC said:
I have to agree with this. If your oil looks like these pictures then there's a problem.
How was the car driven before you bought it? If the previous owner made a bunch of short runs when it was cold out, there may be condensation on the oil cap, etc. Could be when you drove it the 200 miles it came to operating temperature and started to 'boil' the moisture out.
Before I threw any money at this I would change the oil, drive it, and keep an eye on it. Or, if you're really nervous, take it to a pro for diagnosis.
Just FYI it was the head gasket. This wait and see attitude that most of you have on this thread is completely ridiculous. Waiting around to see if things happen again is a terrible notion and you are eventually going to cost someone more money than it would have in the first place. If you are not ASE certified you should have no right posting to technical threads.
Ummmm, you do know this is an enthusiast - owned forum that isn't charging for professional advice? In many cases, owners end up fixing their problems using advice here after being abused or ripped off by so-called professionals.Justin_kyllo;228545 said:
But there's a wide spread of competence and experience among our thousands of members. And our policy is to not censor posts, but to discuss and educate folks who are here to learn. I'm not a professional mechanic, but a amateur who's helped thousands of owners over ten years, and I'm still learning.
Thanks for the update, but you have a little bit to learn about most forums like this and what our mission is. And why members post questions for crowdsourcing some diagnostic advice.
KNBlazer
Member
- Feb 8, 2012
- 811
Justin_kyllo said:
What wait and see!? The majority here was, CHANGE your oil to see what it looked like... Discard the easier, less expensive possibilties first... Not from personal experience, but from reading the web, the heads on our trucks can turn into a nightmare if one of the rear bolts snap...a weekend job suddenly turns into a 2 weekend job, as having to pull the engine seems to be the easiest if not the only way to resolve the issue....
This forum has been great to me, saved me hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on simple repairs... Aside from parts expenses, a few dollars on bandaids...
BTW, did your compression issue resolve itself with a gasket, or did you send your head out to the machine shop...
I have an idea - recommend a head gasket job first to anybody with similar symptoms. When the 17 year old member who just inherited his gramdma's truck breaks 5 of the head bolts getting it apart and they don't make enough at the local supermarket as a bagger to buy new ones, at least we didn't lowball the guy and give him false hope that the fix might be cheap. That's the ticket. 
IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
Justin_kyllo said:
Thanks for the update. How was this confirmed to the shop? Did they pull the oil, or dig straight in, or...?
As for ASE certification, I'm sure most who are ASE certified would rather peddle their services where they can make money, just like it'd be very rare for a lawyer to sit on the Internet giving free legal advice. Even then, ASE certification doesn't automatically give you 100% inside-and-out knowledge of every vehicle in existence. There's quirks and design features and flaws to every one that makes them unique. Their experience really encompasses a body of general knowledge, to which they can attempt to apply to a specific scenario.
Justin_kyllo said:
I re read the posts regarding your issue, and what I'm seeing is 'make sure you need a head gasket BEFORE you jump in and do it'. One member was nice enough to post pictures of what it looks like when a head gasket lets go. Did the posted pictures help?
Seems you're more irritated about having to pay for it.
Justin_kyllo said:
Looking at the posts, their dates and times, you were given the appropriate advice. Eliminate the most likely causes first, then move on to the next possibilities. This is exactly how ASE certified mechanics troubleshoot. I should know, because I was one prior to pursuing a career in aviation.
There was no wait and see attitude. There was a step by step troubleshooting attitude. Within 6 hours of your post asking for advice, you were given the appropriate advice.
The only thing close to a wait and see attitude was from me telling you to weight the option of investing money into a high mileage/high wear vehicle or just driving it til it dies so that you can save up for a nicer/more reliable vehicle.
Somewhere along the way in life, I was given some great advice. Never bite the hand that feeds you. Especially if it free food, or free advice!
Justin_kyllo said:
Being an old guy, I have had my share of crazy when it comes to the vehicle I drive. I can't even count the number of times standing in front of the car/truck/suv and scratching my head completely surprised at what I thought was the issue only to discover from a buddy that he had the same issue and they saved me a ton of cash by first helping me trouble shoot. Were they always right? Of course not, but they were always willing to help. We may not all hang out in a garage anymore, but these kinds of forums are the same idea... only better... there are more voices. Ultimately the choice to do anything is still ours. No one tells me what to do except the wife... and even then I only get what she said 3% of the time and screw it up.
There was mention of being a manager at an Autozone but no mention of using a combustion leak tester. Do they sell them there? They use a chemical test to see if there is combustion leak by changing color. I stumbled across this a while back but have never seen one in person.
[video=youtube;QA7KVQq9vKA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA7KVQq9vKA[/video]
Perhaps as a Manager of an Autozone you have access to such things and can test it out for us.