#2 cylinder Wet

Cooztwo

Original poster
Member
May 17, 2012
20
Bought the 2005 4.2l evnoy used with 85k miles. It ran ok but used oil. Found out #2 cylinder was using the oil. Finally I burned a #2 exhaust valve. I changed the valve. About 5000 miles later, I burned the adjacent exhaust valve. I just change the entire head with a rebuilt one. I have it all back together and running

The problem: #2 is still wet and the plug has dry carbon deposits. I've seen the exhaust blow black smoke for a second upon startup and then it turns to a gray/white and continues even after it warms up. Its not thick but noticable.

What i've done: Changed the head, new plugs, moved around coil packs, swapped the #1 and #2 injector, compression test (200-195) , checked the radiator/intake/exhaust for air while putting 50psi into each cylinder at TDC, inspected/checked the oil level, inspected/checked the water level, cleaned throttle body, changed coolant temp sensor due to codes 495, 128, 526, 125.


I still have the same problem #2 cylinder is still an issue except that now the rpms are out of control, the coolant temp sensor must be bad (it wouln't read over 100 degrees), and now I have a ticking sound. It still smokes and i'm worse off now than I ever have.

Codes: 125, 128, New code 0014 was present after test drive but went away after next start.

Any suggestions? I've read about the computer having to "relearn". I typically disconnect the battery for that reason, but is there anything specific I need to do?
 

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limequat

Member
Dec 8, 2011
520
At what points were those pics taken? Had you already swapped injectors?

Change your thermostat to fix the 125/128 codes. The other is for your VVT actuator. Might need cleaning, but if the code stays away, leave it.
 

Cooztwo

Original poster
Member
May 17, 2012
20
technically, the pictures were before the injector swap. I swapped the injectors last night and drove it. i let it cool down and dug into it this morning. I checked the oil to see if dropped (it didn't but i only put 15 miles on it), then I pulled the plugs and #2 was carbon coated, so for the sake of time, i just used the old pictures because new ones wouldn't change the point.

I did the classic boil the thermostat test and it opened about 190 +/-. Thats why I went with the sensor first. Plus it looked more difficult to do and since I had the intake off it was easy to change.

I had to pull the VVT and install it in the new head. It looked good, screens were there, minor debris. The only thing that struck me odd was the housing. When i tried to pull it out, I gave it a twist and the housing turned. I have no idea how its put together so I don't know if I damaged it or not. I didn't turn it much maybe an eighth turn.
 

limequat

Member
Dec 8, 2011
520
Cooztwo said:
technically, the pictures were before the injector swap. I swapped the injectors last night and drove it. i let it cool down and dug into it this morning. I checked the oil to see if dropped (it didn't but i only put 15 miles on it), then I pulled the plugs and #2 was carbon coated, so for the sake of time, i just used the old pictures because new ones wouldn't change the point.

I did the classic boil the thermostat test and it opened about 190 +/-. Thats why I went with the sensor first. Plus it looked more difficult to do and since I had the intake off it was easy to change.

I had to pull the VVT and install it in the new head. It looked good, screens were there, minor debris. The only thing that struck me odd was the housing. When i tried to pull it out, I gave it a twist and the housing turned. I have no idea how its put together so I don't know if I damaged it or not. I didn't turn it much maybe an eighth turn.

OK, sounds like you're ahead of me on most points :smile:

Back to the injector swap, though, let's say for arguments sake that it is the injector. Would 15 miles of driving be enough to foul plug 1?
That's where I'd lean, given what you've said so far.

As for your cooling codes, I think the next step is to get out a multimeter and start checking voltages at the sensor and then at the PCM.
 

Cooztwo

Original poster
Member
May 17, 2012
20
First of all I appreciate your feeback. Mechanically, i'm pretty good, but this electronic diagnostic stuff is fairly new to me. For instance, I don't know how smart the computer is, I've looked at a list of codes and it looks like it doesn't miss much. But the lack of codes from my truck makes me wonder if its missing something. Since it is smoking, then why isn't the O2 sensor telling me something?

I took a video of the tailpipe when I started it for the first time after changing the coolant temp sensor. A little smoke on initial start but cleared. It was clear up to about 160 degrees and then the smoke started, not thick, but its there. Maybe a bit more when letting off throttle. By the way, my actron never read more than 160 degrees. Do i need to calibrate the computer? At least my old one got to 175 degrees.

I'm using the term "foul" loosely, I don't necessarily mean the plug is not firing but i'm distinguishing the #2 plug being different from the rest. Even after 15 miles, the plug goes from white to black and the others stay white tells me the #2 cylinder is not running correctly even after the injector swap. I'm not expienced a whole lot with injectors but logic is telling me not to spend $100 on an injector without more proof that is bad.

Bottom line, no matter what i've done, I put a clean plug in #2 and then drive it, i'll get a dirty plug back out. Different coil, different injector, new head.

My train of thought is to identify all the cylinder specific parts to check and swap them if possible. What I haven't checked is piston and rings, cylinder skirt, cylinder wall, wire going to coil pack, wire going to injector. I can check the wires fairly easily but i'm not sure what voltage to look for. The compression test was the only thing I could do myself to check the rings.

You say to start checking for voltage, I can test but I don't know what i'm looking for, do all sensors run on the same voltage? What is it?

Historical note: When I first got the truck I got a CEL for the clutch fan, I don't remember the number, but I remember cussing the engineer who decided to make a clutch fan electronic. Since I've been doing all the assembly, disassembly, assembly and so on, I don't recall ever seeing that code again. I'm wondering if the coolant codes i'm getting have anything to do with the #2 cylinder. Should I try some sort of head sealer?
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
When you replaced the head, how did the cylinder and piston look compared to the others?
 

Cooztwo

Original poster
Member
May 17, 2012
20
I replaced it last week. It's a reman. Drove it about 150 miles and checked the plugs. I was so disappointed to see the carbon on the plug.

The piston didn't show any signs of anything bouncing around. The wall felt smooth, i dragged my fingernail around it but it didn't catch or feel anything. I vacuumed out the ring area as well. All in all I couldn't find any damage but I didn't check bore diameter. No tools for that.

Other than being wet, it didn't look much different.
 

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limequat

Member
Dec 8, 2011
520
Cooztwo said:
First of all I appreciate your feeback. Mechanically, i'm pretty good, but this electronic diagnostic stuff is fairly new to me. For instance, I don't know how smart the computer is, I've looked at a list of codes and it looks like it doesn't miss much. But the lack of codes from my truck makes me wonder if its missing something. Since it is smoking, then why isn't the O2 sensor telling me something?

Never really thought about it, but I don't think it's sensitive to oil. Also, it's averaging 6 cylinders.

I took a video of the tailpipe when I started it for the first time after changing the coolant temp sensor. A little smoke on initial start but cleared. It was clear up to about 160 degrees and then the smoke started, not thick, but its there. Maybe a bit more when letting off throttle. By the way, my actron never read more than 160 degrees. Do i need to calibrate the computer? At least my old one got to 175 degrees.

I assume an acton is a scanner? No need to calibrate for a new ECT.

I'm using the term "foul" loosely, I don't necessarily mean the plug is not firing but i'm distinguishing the #2 plug being different from the rest. Even after 15 miles, the plug goes from white to black and the others stay white tells me the #2 cylinder is not running correctly even after the injector swap. I'm not expienced a whole lot with injectors but logic is telling me not to spend $100 on an injector without more proof that is bad.

Fair enough. I guess for me, the next thing would be to figure if it's fuel or oil in cyl 2. The color of the smoke should be a good clue, but it sounds like you're getting both black and blue smoke?
How about this: pull the plug on injector 2 (I know it's a pain), install clean spark plug. Go drive for a few minutes. If the plug is clean, your problem is injector related, if it's dirty it's oil.

My train of thought is to identify all the cylinder specific parts to check and swap them if possible. What I haven't checked is piston and rings, cylinder skirt, cylinder wall, wire going to coil pack, wire going to injector. I can check the wires fairly easily but i'm not sure what voltage to look for. The compression test was the only thing I could do myself to check the rings.

Your logic is sound, and the fact you haven't turn anything out yet is weird.
I can help you out with the electrical diagnosis, are you comfortable using a multi-meter?

For the injector, set the meter on DV voltage: Key on. Touch one probe to the pink wire and another to battery neg. You should see ~12v.
Next set the meter to measure resistance. touch one probe to the other wire in the injector connector (should be green/black) and the other probe to PCM connector 2, pin 15. You should get a reading of less than 1 ohm. You may need to use paper clips or something similar to get into the connector pins.

Onto the coil: Use similar methods, check for 12V on the pink wire. Check resistance to battery neg on the black wire. Check resistance between the red/white wire and PCM connector 2, pin 42.

ECT: Check for 5V on the Tan wire (harness side). Check resistance between the black wire and PCM connector 1 pin 13.

You say to start checking for voltage, I can test but I don't know what i'm looking for, do all sensors run on the same voltage? What is it?

Generally, sensors run on 5V and actuators on 12V, but not always.

Historical note: When I first got the truck I got a CEL for the clutch fan, I don't remember the number, but I remember cussing the engineer who decided to make a clutch fan electronic. Since I've been doing all the assembly, disassembly, assembly and so on, I don't recall ever seeing that code again. I'm wondering if the coolant codes i'm getting have anything to do with the #2 cylinder. Should I try some sort of head sealer?

I wouldn't think the two are related.
 

limequat

Member
Dec 8, 2011
520
Overall, I'm starting to suspect a ring. Might be worth your money to pay for a leak down test. What is that that appears to be running down the left of the cylinder wall in the pic above?
 

Cooztwo

Original poster
Member
May 17, 2012
20
I didn't clean it very well before I took pictures, what you see is residual oil running down. I've been shopping for a leak down tester but I found a site that shows how to make one. I have and old compressor with a regulator and gauge so I thought I would give it a try. A guy where I work told me to pressurize the cooling system to see if it bleeds down. I'll have to figure out how to do that. He suspects it could be water getting into the cylinder since the issue hasn't followed any of the fuel related parts i've moved around. He said the leak could be cooling the chamber and effecting the mixture to cause the plug to look sooty.
 

n0kfb

Member
Dec 8, 2011
104
limequat said:
Overall, I'm starting to suspect a ring. Might be worth your money to pay for a leak down test. What is that that appears to be running down the left of the cylinder wall in the pic above?

A leak down test isn't going to find a bad oil control ring.

Is the engine running OK when the plug is clean? If so, put a plug in that is one or two heat ranges hotter to burn off the oil.

-- Dan Meyer :coffee:
 

limequat

Member
Dec 8, 2011
520
Cooztwo said:
I didn't clean it very well before I took pictures, what you see is residual oil running down. I've been shopping for a leak down tester but I found a site that shows how to make one. I have and old compressor with a regulator and gauge so I thought I would give it a try. A guy where I work told me to pressurize the cooling system to see if it bleeds down. I'll have to figure out how to do that. He suspects it could be water getting into the cylinder since the issue hasn't followed any of the fuel related parts i've moved around. He said the leak could be cooling the chamber and effecting the mixture to cause the plug to look sooty.

Dunno, the amount of gunk on your valves, it would just about have to be oil...
Any idea what caused the valves to burn up like that?
I could see: dribbly injector => rich on startup, lean under load => detonation => burned valves, broken ring?

I support the homemade leakdown tester idea.
 

Cooztwo

Original poster
Member
May 17, 2012
20
I know I had an oil issue before I changed the head, it had classic signs of worn guides/seals. When i pulled up to a light or stop sign, I would watch in the mirror to see how long it would take to see the blue cloud start to billow. It wouldn't take long. On start up it would puff some smoke. I never had a leak but I was putting oil in it about every few hundred miles. Probably about a quart per tank of gas. When i burned the valve, I talked with some folks and it seemed unanimous that it was the oil that caused the burn. I changed the head hoping all issues would be resolved.
 

limequat

Member
Dec 8, 2011
520
n0kfb said:
A leak down test isn't going to find a bad oil control ring.

Is the engine running OK when the plug is clean? If so, put a plug in that is one or two heat ranges hotter to burn off the oil.

-- Dan Meyer :coffee:

No? Seems like the leak down rate would still be higher than the other cylinders.
This from a guy that's never done one :smile:
 

Cooztwo

Original poster
Member
May 17, 2012
20
Here are the results fo the leak down test. I only tested 1 thru 4 because 5 and 6 are a pain. The tester I made had a slight variation, the orfice is .032" instead of the .040" called out for. I used the gauge on the compressor and set it to 100psi and verified I got 100 psi on my tester with nothing attached to it. So, on to the results, #2 was 92psi, #1 was 88psi, #3 was 86psi, #4 was 88psi. So after all that, I suppose since #2 has oil in it, it would have the best seal. Just perfect.
 

Cooztwo

Original poster
Member
May 17, 2012
20
limequat said:
How about this: pull the plug on injector 2 (I know it's a pain), install clean spark plug. Go drive for a few minutes. If the plug is clean, your problem is injector related, if it's dirty it's oil.

I looked at doing this today, is there a way to do this without pulling the intake?
 

limequat

Member
Dec 8, 2011
520
Cooztwo said:
I looked at doing this today, is there a way to do this without pulling the intake?

Yes, but I wouldn't recommend them :smile:

You could pull out the control line from either the PCM connector or the injector harness connector. Or install a new connector somewhere that's easier to get to.

Actually, the last one wouldn't be a bad idea if you use a quality connector.
 

Cooztwo

Original poster
Member
May 17, 2012
20
So I mentioned that my water wasn't going down. Well its not in the radiator but I think i might be in the overflow tank. So, does anyone have a recommendation for a sealer, head gasket type or otherwise?
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Give it some time.

Refill the reservoir every day when it's cold. You may still be getting some of the trapped air out.
 

kartracer_3

Member
Jun 7, 2012
18
So how does this engine run ? Is cylinder #2 a dead miss ? After reading your posts I am concerned about your burnt valves . Not one but two on the same cylinder? Correct? at different times right ?

Judging by all the detailed info you have posted its safe to assume that whatever caused the valves to burn is still present and if you do not correct it your valves will burn again.
Sounds like to me you have 2 issues.
You no doubt have an issue with your engine coolant temp .Mine reads a steady 210 on the gauge, which is probably 201-207 on the scan tool, after only a few minutes of warming up.
The most likely cause for this is the t-state. TB'S have very bad problem with t-states and if you replace it go straight to the dealer and get one . DO NOT waste your money and time getting one from AZ or advance or car quest. I know GM made the junk T-states that went in the TB's to begin with BUT trust me
the replacement ones are much better. See if you can tell them you are from some shop they never heard of and they may let you have it at cost instead of reaming you with that list price.

Ok now back to your burnt valves. I will bet you a benjy bill{$100} that oil did not cause those burnt valves. If I was a betting man I would say the reason the valves burnt is because that cylinder is leaning out for some reason. I have seen plugs get real dirty from a cylinder that was leaning out or not burning efficiently. Now you switched injectors and still have the same problem. So we can rule out an injector. You ran a compression test , a leakage test. Good job by the way.
Wait a minute did you have all the spark plugs out when doing the leakage and compression test or did you do it one at a time putting the plugs back in each cylinder as you went.{just curious]
Anyways here is what I would check next. Vacuum leaks related to cylinder #2. Make absolutely sure you do not have any . Vacuum ports and lines. Cracked intake comes to mind . warped intake or bad seal between the head and intake.
Next I would do some research and see if the TB 4.2l has an injector driver for each cylinder if it has six drivers in the computer then the one for cylinder #2 might be going a little flat. You can check this with a noid light . Plug it in injector harness #2 start the engine. The light should have a strob effect at idle and get brighter as you step on the loud pedal. If it gets bright then goes out all together or gets dim and acts really erratic then you have an issue with injector driver in the PCM. Again I would only do this if you find out it has 6 individual injector drivers in the PCM. I would look it up for you but I am at home. Any decent wiring diagram of the PCM related circuits should show this.
Another thing you might try is switching injector leads with another cylinder {cross wire} if they will reach. Just to see if the issue goes to that cylinder.

and lastly it could be the bottom end but I would find it hard to believe after seeing those burnt valves.Never seen an excessive amount of oil do that in the last 30 years

hope this helps and let us know what the fix is , it sounds like you are close
KR3
:cool:
 

Cooztwo

Original poster
Member
May 17, 2012
20
Well I fixed my problem, its now someone else's problem. My new ford runs great. Thanks for all the help and insight. I've learned a lot about TTY bolts, drive axles that go through oil pans, overhead cam timing, trouble shooting, etc.

BTW, all the plugs were in when I checked for compression and leakdown.
 

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