Why can't my truck get within spec for wheel alignment

[Matt]

After yesterdays debacle with the wheel alignment, the place I normally take it to fixed what was wrong.

But, they can't get the truck into spec. They've got it the best they can do but it's nowhere near where it should be and they've reached the limit of movement to try and get it done right.

In the 10 years I've had the truck it has not been in an accident and there's been no reported accident prior to me buying it.

Do you think that the LCA's are causing the problem and need to be replaced?

 

[djthumper]

What spec can't they get into spec?

 

[Nexus1155]

Post up the spec sheet! What I had to do with mine was bring it to a specialist frame and alignment specialist. $80 and they did everything and had the specs for a modified suspension envoy. Worth every penny. I had to replace EVERYTHING though before going there, just to make sure.

 

[mrrsm]

I know it would be a lot of work to have to “loosen the works” and then re-tighten everything to see if the four wheel geometry of your MarkMc aftermarket suspension hardware sort of re-settles… but if you decided to explore this idea as check list… this PDF might be useful as a good reference to follow:

http://www.theliftmeister.com/public_html/theliftmeister.com/page1/files/MarkMc3.pdf

 

[djthumper]

We don't get 4 wheel alignments. Likley there is a damaged component.

 

[Matt]

Here's a pic of the spec sheet.

 

[Nexus1155]

Sounds like they are being lazy, or ^^^ He's right, a broken component. A lot of people say bring it to firestone for cheapness, or dealer to do it right. Neither of those places helped me at multiple locations. You need to jack it up and check the play in the components. Sounds like the LBJ is bad or more.

YES::: AFTER READING YOUR LAST POSTS ABOUT THEM NOT TIGHTENING THE BOLTS. Something definitely is bad. If one thing is bad it wreaks carnage on other components and kills the weakest links. Once one rubber is gone, the others go right behind it. My UBJ failed and took out much more with it. What you NEED to do, is bring it to the dealer and have them fix it PROPERLY and pay for it then give the invoice to firestone. Talk to the manager, I am sure he will be more than happy if you say you are going to call corporate if he gives you any shit.

Source: I worked as an Advisor.

 

[Sparky]

I don't remember, did you flip your UCAs or not?

I had mine flipped, and the shop I went to had no issue aligning it to spec.

That's nuts that the one place didn't tighten the bolts all the way. Probably snugged them, but didn't crank them down. Any sign of anything bending?

 

[primem]

the secondary alignment angles will be needed to tell if anything is bent. It cannot be determined by primary angles alone.
show the final adjustment sheet so we can see what they couldn't get in.

trailblazers that i have adjusted share the same chassis as hhr's. lower control arms adjust by loosening the bolts and moving the arms in slots in the frame. they provided plenty of range but can be hard to move initially.

 

[Matt]

I don't remember, did you flip your UCAs or not?

I had mine flipped, and the shop I went to had no issue aligning it to spec.

That's nuts that the one place didn't tighten the bolts all the way. Probably snugged them, but didn't crank them down. Any sign of anything bending?

Yeah, they're flipped.

the secondary alignment angles will be needed to tell if anything is bent. It cannot be determined by primary angles alone.
show the final adjustment sheet so we can see what they couldn't get in.

trailblazers that i have adjusted share the same chassis as hhr's. lower control arms adjust by loosening the bolts and moving the arms in slots in the frame. they provided plenty of range but can be hard to move initially.

I don't have the final sheet, but I'll talk to them tomorrow and get it.

I think I may try and get them to replace the LCA's on their dime...I'm sure something there is screwed up, but I'll get someone else to do the replacing.

 

[Sparky]

Hey, get new LCA bushings/joints that way. Win.

 

[Matt]

We'll see tomorrow.

 

[Matt]

OK, the LCA's themselves are fine...the bushings on the other hand are farked.

So, after I get back from Florida I have to order new complete LCA's and change them out.

Got any volunteers to give me a hand with that bastard of a job?

 

[Sparky]

When do you get back?

 

[Matt]

31st of March and I'll be broke...that's why I'm thinking mid April or when we have our meet (I'll start a thread for that).

 

[Nexus1155]

Where are you located? I just banged it out recently, but that still wouldn't cause a bad alignment!

 

[Matt]

A long way from Boston. Bad bushings will cause alignment problems.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

I need to swap my LCA as well.

 

[primem]

if the bushings are gone replace them for sure but they would have to be falling out to not allow the alignment to get in specs. the adjustment slots in the lca are big. I have slide them from side to side on the alignment rack and it will move out of spec on way to out of spec the opposite.

when you take the lca out, you will know how much they moved them during the alignment based on how easy them move for you.

 

[Realism]

Here's a pic of the spec sheet.

Consider yourself luckier. Never had an accident from the rear, but when I last had my alignment done the rear toe was LR 0.20 RR -0.17 and the thrust angle was 0.19
They didn't even touch the rear, but after they finished alignment, it read LR 0.23 Toe RR -0.19 and Thrust angle of 0.21

 

[primem]

for his truck, there is no adjustment for the rear; its a solid rear axle. that is why the rear numbers are faded out. All long as the rear total toe is in spec, there will no toe wear.
the front toe will be set to account for the thrust angle. the tech is doing a 2 wheel thrust alignment.

 

[Matt]

@HARDTRAILZ @Regulator @Grimor Any recommendations on LCA brand...AC Delco, A1 Auto, Dorman, Moog?

 

[Sparky]

A1 Auto doesn't make their own, they're just going to be rebranded something.

I tend to stick with Moog just because I have never had issues with their bushings and ball joints, but I know some people don't like them (riding on a name, no longer made in the US, etc). I just know I've never had a Moog ball joint go bad on me. Not sure the quality of Dorman's ball joints, their metallurgy and bushings seem to be fine from my experience however.

Hm, it would require a different sway bar, but maybe would it be worth changing to a 2008 LCA to get rid of the jointed sway links?

 

[Tiggerr]

Moog only makes LCA in their cheap line... I'd go AC delco professional.. just got mine off Amazon for pretty good price..

 

[Sparky]

Oh, must be different on the GMT360 then. They had both their cheap and their pro line for my full size.

 

[gmcman]

I don't understand why they can't at least get the toe correct. The toe is adjusted by the tie rod ends and there is plenty of adjustment for that. Even if the lower control arm bracket needs replacing, you should be able to adjust the toe into spec.

Have you checked your lower ball joints? Lift the tire off the ground by the lower control arm enough that you can get a prybar under the tire. Lift up on the tire and see if the LBJ moves up, if so replace both sides.

Worn LBJ's, UBJ's, and UCA can skew the camber.

I personally would run the gamut, both lower control arm brackets, both tie rod ends, and whatever else you haven't changed.

If you are passing through Northern VA, stop by and we'll knock it all out.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

I bought a set of Moogs in the 08 style cause they were cheaper and I like the sway bar link setup, but am yet to install them

 

[Matt]

Already in Florida...didn't go anywhere near VA.

The lower BJ's are about as good as the LCA's, so everything will be changed at the same time.

Will I have to get a new sway bar if I can to 08 LCA's.

BTW, truck went well on the 1200 mile trip.

 

[Sparky]

Yeah, or build a hybrid link. The 08 bar has a vertical hole, the older one like yours the hole is horizontal.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

I am doing the hybrid link. At least that is the plan.

 

[Matt]

I am doing the hybrid link. At least that is the plan.

You might be building 2 lots mate.

 

[Jeffrey gray]

Ok, not to speak out of turn....but any suspension components that are bad at the time of alignment requires by law that the alignment shop not do any work until the defective components are replaced. ANY alignment shop that attempts to perform an alignment with worn components needs to have their license revoked. At this point, most suspension components are gonna need replacing. Front to back. (Ie; lbj, ubj, lca, uca, sway bar links, bushings, tierods) EVERTHING. And don’t buy cheap parts. Find a company with a good reputation and stick with them. Moog, acdelco, ect. Even though the chain store brand has a lifetime warranty, if you’re replacing the parts every year, they have a customer for life. You may get the parts for free but the cost of labor to replace is astronomical. Plus you always buy something when warranting parts. Don’t fall for it. BUY GOOD PARTS.