Whew! I'm so glad to be here where maybe you'll tell me the truth about towing. I just found a used travel trailer that I like, but it's heavier than what I had planned to get, at 3400 lbs empty. I'd been considering a used Envoy or Trailblazer to tow with, but I'm not convinced they'd pull this heavier TT up the mountains in north GA. The used Envoy/TB's I've seen listed for sale seem to be the regular length, and the few I've actually asked about seem to all have the 3.42 gear ratio. So . . . tell me the truth - do I need to go to a different vehicle to tow this? Thanks in advance for your wise counsel!
Please help, confused about towing . . .
- Thread starter sadiehikes
- Start date
IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
sadiehikes said:
Well, 3.42 gears which already is more of a speed-and-economy over torque in terms of the options available, and a maximum towing capacity of 5100 lbs I believe. It might make it, but it'd be a dog in some places I would imagine, but should make it as long as the inclines are overly extreme. 3.73 and 4.10 (and the V8) would obviously improve your performance. Since a travel trailer may have some extra crap tossed in it but is not really a trailer meant to jam-pack like a UHaul, you'd pack what, 200-300 lbs. of stuff on a trip? You've still got a half ton on the limit, but again it may be a dog.
Additionally, especially in the southern climate, if this is something you're going to be towing long distances or where you're going to go up a lot of mountains or something, it may be worth looking into modifying the vehicle with a separate transmission cooler.
Don't take my thoughts as the sole opinion to go with though, I know others will have something to say.
blazinlow89
Member
- Jan 25, 2012
- 2,088
RayVoy said:
Trans cooler could be a necessity. Maybe even a tune.
While obviously way lighter, we towed a pop up camper through the mountains in PA, VA and WV several times with my truck. 4.2l, 3.42 gears 4 adults and all the crap in the back, never installed a trans cooler. Never had any issues with towing it, had plenty of pull up some steep hills in 3rd gear. Gas mileage did dwindle to about 12-14 when normal was 15-18, but that a given. I estimated the weight on the camper at 1200 lbs empty, however I as digging through some old paper work a few days ago and found a slip for a scale(curiosity), trailer weight was 2157lbs. This was loaded with camping chairs, inflatable mattresses, camping gear, bedding, 25 gallons of water, and a cargo rack on the camper with totes full of fire wood.
Before I bought the new truck we had looked at a few travel trailers and I was looking for a dry weight of about 4000 lbs, which I would have no worries towing with the truck. However if I was shopping again I would look for the 3.73's, or 4.10's and maybe even a G80. 5.3 would be nice, but not a necessity in my book, I like my little I6.
We tow a 3500# gross weight TT with our Envoy with absolutely no problem. Ours has the 3.73 gears. I installed a trans cooler and tow in 3rd. First year, we towed in D, but there was lots of downshifting and we actually got less gas mileage. Although rated to tow more, I don't think I would go much over 4000, especially with a TT.
IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
Oh I'll guarantee it'll go up to its rating. But highway speeds may not be an option for you at that point. Different trailer types shouldn't matter too much as long as it has some sort of aerodynamic efficiency to it, if not go buy an Airstream or remove the brick wall you installed on the front.
blazinlow89
Member
- Jan 25, 2012
- 2,088
IllogicTC said:
Oh it will, been past the max rating a few times as well. Not recommended, but I did manage to keep it between 60-65mph on I95, mostly flat thankfully.IllogicTC said:
The reason I mentioned the TT is it is like towing a bill board. Lots of wind resistance, cutting into MPGs and putting additional strain on the truck. Towed a landscaping trailer loaded to about the same weight with less strain.
RedEnvoyDenali
Member
- Dec 4, 2011
- 520
All the advice you have been given is good and should be heeded.
I tow a 4000 LB (app) boat with my V8 and 3.42 gears- no problem. The tranny cooler should not be considered an option but a necessity.
The I6's are quite torquy but should pull the trailer. If you do a test run and decide it is a little wobbly you might want to consider a weight distribution hitch. Searching here will get you a lot of information about these.
good luck, read a lot, be smart and you shouldn't have any trouble. :wootwoot:
I tow a 4000 LB (app) boat with my V8 and 3.42 gears- no problem. The tranny cooler should not be considered an option but a necessity.
The I6's are quite torquy but should pull the trailer. If you do a test run and decide it is a little wobbly you might want to consider a weight distribution hitch. Searching here will get you a lot of information about these.
good luck, read a lot, be smart and you shouldn't have any trouble. :wootwoot:
Wow, you folks responded quickly and honestly and I sure appreciate it. I was getting LOTS of crazy contradictory advice, even from a Chevy dealer . . . maybe people think I'm stupid since I'm a woman, sigh. I was assuming I'd need a transmission cooler and a weight distributing hitch. Wasn't sure about the gear ratio, though, and I'm only finding the 3.4 for sale used. Now, to see if the trailer is still available . . . oh heck, I may just buy one anyway to be ready when the next suitable trailer comes along. What kind of gas mileage do you TB/Envoy owners get when not towing?
blazinlow89
Member
- Jan 25, 2012
- 2,088
That varies quite a bit. Before my T-stat went I would get 14-16 around town and highway was always more than 20 with a best of 24mpg. I fixed that but also had some mods that probably contributed to my lack of good MPG. Was averaging about 10 for a while, short trip to work, dumb engine mods, and my failing fuel pressure regulator are what i feel were to blame. Have not driven a full tank since replacing the FPR, but it looks better.
Keep in mind I am also lifted and run larger than OEM tire size.
Keep in mind I am also lifted and run larger than OEM tire size.
Hmmm, not too bad! I'm currently driving a Volvo 740 wagon, which is super economical (20-24mpg), but sure won't pull a trailer. I don't have room to keep two vehicles, so whatever I get to tow with will also become my daily commuter.
jfkmk said:
So, just to be clear, your TT is 3500# gross, not empty, right? The one I'm considering is 3400 empty, so it'd be heavier than yours. That doesn't sound good.
IllogicTC
Member
- Dec 30, 2013
- 3,452
Peaked out at 25 highway, in a level/gentle rolling-hills scenario. That was a couple years ago, beautiful weather that day.
Right now I have no problem hitting about 23 in a level/gentle hills scenario. Did it just a while back.
City just varies too much for me to get a locked-down answer on. My local roads are 15MPH speed limit, which is ridiculous. At the 25MPH limit of my old town I could get 14-16.
A steep grade, followed by a bunch of stupid turns and all ups-and-downs and all that... 14-15MPG. This is because the cruise control doesn't like the thought of doing 5 under for a minute, and will ramp it down to 2nd gear to climb the grade at 4k RPM. You can easily scavenge your mileage in an uphill scenario by finding the throttle position that would keep you at a certain speed level, and just holding it up the grade. If you slow down 5-10 MPH, big whoop, it's a lot better than downshifting. It might flip to 3rd, or just disengage the TC lockup-clutch, but anything helps. This metric was also taken on winter blend, usually it's a little over 15. This is at 45 MPH for the initial climb and a couple miles in, then 55, slow down to 35 for a sharp corner then get back up, go a bit more, slow down to 15 and get back up, final big hill climb, downhill to a 35 MPH zone, then getting onto another road, and doing 70 up a couple long hills. Mixed highway driving?
This is with the I6 and 3.73 gears, obviously 3.42 will give you some sort of benefit. Keeping up on various maintenance items will help a bundle, too. This includes drivetrain fluids, various filters, spark plugs, throttle-body cleaning, and various checks now and again.
You're likely to see a ton more different answers on the MPG question, but maintenance and driver-care are two big ones on maximizing the ratio. Don't let things slide, and make more time for travel, vs making up time by speeding/hard acceleration. A general rule of thumb which I figure is easier to do with the 3.42 is keeping the RPM under 2k while accelerating. If you turn of cruise, don't use it to re-accelerate back to the desired speed, it tends to just want to hurry up and get there (60-75% throttle sometimes it seems like). Get back up close to the speed, hit the resume and let it do the rest.
Right now I have no problem hitting about 23 in a level/gentle hills scenario. Did it just a while back.
City just varies too much for me to get a locked-down answer on. My local roads are 15MPH speed limit, which is ridiculous. At the 25MPH limit of my old town I could get 14-16.
A steep grade, followed by a bunch of stupid turns and all ups-and-downs and all that... 14-15MPG. This is because the cruise control doesn't like the thought of doing 5 under for a minute, and will ramp it down to 2nd gear to climb the grade at 4k RPM. You can easily scavenge your mileage in an uphill scenario by finding the throttle position that would keep you at a certain speed level, and just holding it up the grade. If you slow down 5-10 MPH, big whoop, it's a lot better than downshifting. It might flip to 3rd, or just disengage the TC lockup-clutch, but anything helps. This metric was also taken on winter blend, usually it's a little over 15. This is at 45 MPH for the initial climb and a couple miles in, then 55, slow down to 35 for a sharp corner then get back up, go a bit more, slow down to 15 and get back up, final big hill climb, downhill to a 35 MPH zone, then getting onto another road, and doing 70 up a couple long hills. Mixed highway driving?
This is with the I6 and 3.73 gears, obviously 3.42 will give you some sort of benefit. Keeping up on various maintenance items will help a bundle, too. This includes drivetrain fluids, various filters, spark plugs, throttle-body cleaning, and various checks now and again.
You're likely to see a ton more different answers on the MPG question, but maintenance and driver-care are two big ones on maximizing the ratio. Don't let things slide, and make more time for travel, vs making up time by speeding/hard acceleration. A general rule of thumb which I figure is easier to do with the 3.42 is keeping the RPM under 2k while accelerating. If you turn of cruise, don't use it to re-accelerate back to the desired speed, it tends to just want to hurry up and get there (60-75% throttle sometimes it seems like). Get back up close to the speed, hit the resume and let it do the rest.
triz
Member
- Apr 22, 2013
- 746
I've done some towing. I have the 4.2I6 with the regular 3.42 gears. Towed my 2000lb. MR-S and the trailer and no issues there. I also came down with a big trailer filled with household things and the truck had no problems keeping up with traffic. I would recommend 3rd gear if you need to get up any hills. Expect about 13MPG's when towing.
My TT is 4409lb loaded.
Towing in third always, has a big external cooler, 3,73 and using tourqe
app to keep track of tranny temp closely.
Milage sucks of course, 8-9 mpg but being an EXT with two adults and five kid's and a rooftop box I'm not surprised.
No problems to tow that, but you get a bit worried about tranny temp in long upphill slopes when you need the cooler the most you have the least airflow passing thru. I have plans on a small electric fan with a manual switch for next summer vacation.
View attachment 32331
Towing in third always, has a big external cooler, 3,73 and using tourqe
app to keep track of tranny temp closely.
Milage sucks of course, 8-9 mpg but being an EXT with two adults and five kid's and a rooftop box I'm not surprised.
No problems to tow that, but you get a bit worried about tranny temp in long upphill slopes when you need the cooler the most you have the least airflow passing thru. I have plans on a small electric fan with a manual switch for next summer vacation.
View attachment 32331
Attachments
sadiehikes said:
Yes, the trailer is 3500 loaded. As someone else mentioned, the 6 cylinder has plenty of hp and torque, so that is not so much the issue. The vehicle has a short wheelbase, which makes it so-so for towing a heavier trailer. After two years of towing without a wd hitch, I'm going to buy one this year. These also have a soft suspension and tend to bounce. I get about 20 highway normally and 12 towing.
Mark20
Member
- Dec 6, 2011
- 1,630
I was never happy with my Envoy's performance when towing my 4500 lb trailer. Handling was fine but it always felt like I was at my limits. Also what I thought was the factory tranny cooler is the power steering cooler so I was running hot there.
I've since graduated to a Silverado.
I've since graduated to a Silverado.
rcam81
Member
I have been towing a 4000 lb boat with both of my TB's (03 and 07). Both have (had) 4.2l, 3.42 gears and G-80. The 07 does a better job of towing since I got the tune. I always tow in 3rd gear. 12 - 14 mpg using 87 octane gas.
I think you would be fine with a I6/V8 3.73 equipped Envoy/Trailblazer. However, you might consider also buying a Tahoe/Yukon Hybrid as well. They tow very well with the 6.0 motor, and get great gas mileage when not being used for towing. At least this is what I plan on doing once I decide my Envoy has reached the end of its useful life.. Which should be 3-4 years down the road.
linneje
Member
- Apr 26, 2012
- 404
I tow a 5400 lb dry weight 30ft trailer in the summer. I always get strange looks because the Envoy looks small pulling it, but the V8 pulls it easily and I have driven in some high wind conditions too. However, I have sway control and a weight distribution hitch, and I wouldn't try it without both of those.