Lifted TB Shakes during fast acceleration

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
I have a 2006 TB LS 4.2L with about 90,000 miles on it. I just finished the initial stages of my lift. I started with Z71 rear springs and struts and Bilstein HD's with a 3" suspension lift in the front.(Need another inch or so in the rear to level it better)... I haul a trailer with several ATV's so I threw in some Air Lift 1000's in the rear coils. With this new equipment, I came to a red light (no trailer and 5lbs in the bags as suggested minimum) and all seemed fine. I wanted to see how the trailblazer handled under hard acceleration 3/4 throttle or more. I got a shake from under the vehicle until I reached cruising speed and was no longer under heavy load. "Normal" accelerating / driving / turning I get nothing. Everything seems fine. Its only when I have a lead foot and mash it. It will happen at any speed but only when I "floor" it. SO... What could this be? CV? Drive shaft? Rear Spring shutter? Bag related? All fluids have been changed in front dif, rear dif and trans. This only started AFTER lifting the TB. Looking for some help or feedback. Has anyone else ever experienced this with lifting?:confused:
 

jonbo2002

Member
Sep 27, 2012
213
welcome, if you're into offroading try offroadtb.com
what lift did you get? and did you get an alignment after you lift?
 

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
jonbo2002 said:
welcome, if you're into offroading try offroadtb.com
what lift did you get? and did you get an alignment after you lift?

Thanks! Ill look into that website. I fabricated the front 3" suspension blocks myself. I am a fabricator and figured I would tackle the task. They are precision and 3" on the dot. I just finished the lift on Saturday afternoon so no alignment yet. Just made an appointment to have that done. I troubleshooted more with speed, and I found that high speeds it does not do it. Lower speeds It does. Dead stop launch it does. That makes me think weight shift. I drove some back roads full of hills to see If I can get it to make some noise / vibration. I think I have pin pointed the problem to be the front CV shafts during weight shift. I crested a hill and when the tires stayed flat on the road and the body gained some elevation, It made the exact noise and vibration. Maybe an alignment will help this but they aren't off too badly at all. I might be right at that boarder line with the cv shafts being at too hard an angle. Normal driving fine. normal driving 4x4 low and high fine. Small offroad flexing at crawling speed fine. There are several companies making 3" front suspension lifts so I would imagine someone out there HAS to have had the same issue. Or its just my luck that I am the only one. :crazy: End result, I may have to just NOT hit the throttle that hard, or less suspension lift up front and add body lift, or find aftermarket CV shafts designed for a lifted TB.
 

jonbo2002

Member
Sep 27, 2012
213
cv's are our problem there arent any longer that we can get. are your spacers on top of the strut or inside the strut?
 

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
They are on top due to the bilstein HD being factory length. I thought it would top out too quickly adding the lift inside the coil...
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
crate2002 said:
Thanks! Ill look into that website. I fabricated the front 3" suspension blocks myself. I am a fabricator and figured I would tackle the task. They are precision and 3" on the dot. I just finished the lift on Saturday afternoon so no alignment yet. Just made an appointment to have that done. I troubleshooted more with speed, and I found that high speeds it does not do it. Lower speeds It does. Dead stop launch it does. That makes me think weight shift. I drove some back roads full of hills to see If I can get it to make some noise / vibration. I think I have pin pointed the problem to be the front CV shafts during weight shift. I crested a hill and when the tires stayed flat on the road and the body gained some elevation, It made the exact noise and vibration. Maybe an alignment will help this but they aren't off too badly at all. I might be right at that boarder line with the cv shafts being at too hard an angle. Normal driving fine. normal driving 4x4 low and high fine. Small offroad flexing at crawling speed fine. There are several companies making 3" front suspension lifts so I would imagine someone out there HAS to have had the same issue. Or its just my luck that I am the only one. :crazy: End result, I may have to just NOT hit the throttle that hard, or less suspension lift up front and add body lift, or find aftermarket CV shafts designed for a lifted TB.

crate2002 said:
They are on top due to the bilstein HD being factory length. I thought it would top out too quickly adding the lift inside the coil...

Your issue is entirely due to excessive lift OUTSIDE the strut. You're way beyond the borderline. You can safely put no more than 3/4" spacer on top of the strut unless you're 2WD. The only commercial lift I approve (and I've been evaluating suspension products for years) that uses an outside the strut spacer uses 1/2".

At this point I think your CV shafts are toasted and if you run that kind of launch test again they might break. The stresses are enormous.

Yes, the shocks are the down-limiting element in the suspension design. Due to two elements they are protecting:

1) The inner CV joint is angle-limited. Because the shafts are short.

2) The upper ball joint shaft is under tremendous stress at full extension, and some have even snapped. Without custom upper arms, the universal countermeasure that all of us offroaders do is remove the upper arms, flip them upside down and from side to side, and then the ball joint angle is more normalized.

You MUST put a spacer inside the strut due to these issues. Yes, an inside-the-strut spacer does nothing but trade up-travel for down-travel. All it does is pre-load the spring to change the resting height. People have claimed the spring pre-load changes the height because it increases the spring rate (in inches per pound) but we have constant-rate springs so this analysis is flawed. There are about 7" of travel no matter what you do. If your old resting height gives you 3" of up-travel and 4" of down-travel, then your modified strut might give you 1" of up-travel and 6" of down-travel, and in return you win 2" increase in resting height.

Please post pics of what you built, but please also cease testing it to the point of shaking. What you built was attempted in the middle east a few years ago by a guy who slapped on 4" spacers on top of his strut. I nicknamed it the "Kuwaiti Death Trap." :eek:

Please don't be that guy.
 

tbyoda

Member
Apr 19, 2013
187
crate2002 said:
They are on top due to the bilstein HD being factory length. I thought it would top out too quickly adding the lift inside the coil...
:eek: Bad idea this is like the ready lifts Kits, they are also outside the strut lift and will tear up you front end. I would remove it asap. I have not done my lift yet (parts are in the mail :smile:) but have read of a few persons using the outside the strut lifts (see second post for example). Just trying to head off issue for you but could be to late. I am hoping Roadie and other ORTB veterans with chime in here.

***The Ready Lift is an easy-bolt-on unit, and does not require taking the strut apart. For that reason, this lift can be dangerous and should not be installed on a 4x4. This lift is acceptable for 2WD vehicles only. This lift will over extend the inner CV joint angle, and cause major driveline issues on a 4x4.

The Complete Lifts and Suspension Accessories Thread offroadTB.com - View topic - The Complete Lifts and Suspension Accessories Thread

Readylift SST 2"F/1"R Lift Kit Failure offroadTB.com - View topic - Readylift SST 2"F/1"R Lift Kit Failure
 

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
Well in theory, every lift will change the cv shaft angle. On top of strut assembly or mounted inside with the spring? The only lift that will not change that is a body lift.
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
crate2002 said:
Well in theory, every lift will change the cv shaft angle.
Yes, but only an outside-the-strut spacer changes the extremes / end limits. Inside-the-strut spacers just change the resting height, but leave the extremes within the OEM design limits.

The OEM design leaves the CV shaft essentially straight at resting height. That's part of the reason why GM used as many as 12 different spring rates in their parts bins to assemble vehicles with different engine, 2/4WD, and option lists. To retain uniform ride quality and ride height. When we lift them, and the resting CV angle changes and kinks the shaft even at rest, that's why we often have inner CV boot separation (countermeasure = 4" hose clamp) and premature wear and shorter lifetime after a lift.

The Kuwaiti fabricator also solved the ball joint problem by HEATING his steering knuckles red hot and BENDING them straighter. :no: :eek: :no:
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
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Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Oh, yeah. Rereading that ORTB thread reminds me that the inner CV joint binding is transferring insane stresses to the inboard bearings where the CV shaft clicks into. One on the front diff and the other on the splined disconnect on the passenger's side, whose housing can break in half to save breaking the oil pan.
 

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
Very good information. Where I was concerned with how much flex I would get and wanting to keep the wheels on the ground(thinking of my friends Jeep) I didn't consider the other factors. However. Ride hight is ride hight. Especially with highway and not on the trail. So my noise / vibration would happen no matter what lift... Cv's are on the newer side so the only thing I can think of is for now, don't offroad until I get them off, don't stomp on the throttle and get the weight shift, and lower from 3" outside to 2" inside. Make up the difference with rear to level and body lift to gain more clearance.
 

fishsticks

Member
Nov 21, 2011
433
crate2002 said:
Very good information. Where I was concerned with how much flex I would get and wanting to keep the wheels on the ground(thinking of my friends Jeep) I didn't consider the other factors. However. Ride hight is ride hight. Especially with highway and not on the trail. So my noise / vibration would happen no matter what lift... Cv's are on the newer side so the only thing I can think of is for now, don't offroad until I get them off, don't stomp on the throttle and get the weight shift, and lower from 3" outside to 2" inside. Make up the difference with rear to level and body lift to gain more clearance.

Back when I had a TB I ran a Rough Country 2" inside spacer and heavier springs. The front tires of my TB were off the ground more than I care to admit, but I never broke a suspension component. Under $300 for the whole set up.

You missed the Radflo coilover group buy by a week. :frown:
 

The_Roadie

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Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
crate2002 said:
So my noise / vibration would happen no matter what lift...
You understand perfectly now, but I don't get that last sentence. Your noise/vibration would disappear if your lift wasn't exceeding the safe extended strut length. Some of us put in marginally unsafe length struts (when evaluating possible custom aftermarket coilovers) and the countermeasure to avoid overextending those is limiting straps. Since that usually goes along with disconnecting the anti-sway bar end links for increased articulation, it's mostly for the extreme rock crawlers and high speed washboard desert trail enthusiasts (like me) who need better shock performance than you get in any shock meant for the normal strut design.

Do you have the G80 locker option in the rear? With that, you can go places in 2WD that some 4WD without the locker get stuck. Having the G80 and disconnectable anti-sway bar end links will make a huge difference in the trails you can conquer. And at that point you need to start to need underbody armor and the community has a fabricator in Indiana with products you might buy or emulate.

All available for the reading on Offroadtb.com. Lots of build threads to see what we've been doing with the platform for the last eight years. No need to recreate the dead ends of the past. Enjoy!
 

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
I have received information from MDB On some skids that looked very well constructed. Going to get some for sure. You never know what you will snag on the underside. I learned that riding ATV. As far as ride hight is ride hight. I am referring to the 3" lift I have up front. If I had 3" inside the coil and the strut was not yet fully extended, I'd end up with the same outcome. It's a matter of trial and error and $$$ lol. Inside is the way to go though. This is why I join forums. Tons of info from people who have already been there done that!
 

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
And I'm honestly not even sure on the locker!? How would I know? Is there something on the rear I can look for to see what I have? (Rookie moment)... I know it's 4x4 with 4 low and 4 high lol
 

navigator

Member
Dec 3, 2011
504
crate2002 said:
And I'm honestly not even sure on the locker!? How would I know? Is there something on the rear I can look for to see what I have? (Rookie moment)... I know it's 4x4 with 4 low and 4 high lol

look in your glove box and check for your G codes
G80 means you have the G80 locker.
GU6 (3.42),GT4(3.73),GT5(4.10) are your gear ratios.
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Glove box sticker RPO code. Manufacturing option list. "G80" is an Eaton automatic (mechanical) locker. The #1 mandatory option for serious offroading after the transfer case. Also on the glove box sticker is which gear ratio you have. 4.10 is the best, but it's rare. Code GT4 is 3.73. I'm sure you can find the gear ratio chart with a short search.

Glad to help. It's why we volunteer to pass it on. Check out the build threads on ORTB. And the offroad trail reports in my signature to see where it's possible to go.
 

blazinlow89

Member
Jan 25, 2012
2,088
RPO code list in the glove box. Its a big white sticker that says 'SERVICE PARTS IDENTIFICATION" filled with 3 digit codes. Look for your rear end gear ratio (GU6=3.42, GT4=3.73, or GT5-4.10) will be followed by G80 if installed.

NM Navigator beat me to it.
 

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
On a different end if things, that might help with over all ride, does anyone have any feedback on skyjacker rear struts? I have the z71 in right now. They handle like a lowered car lol. They will do for the time being but might want to match the bilstein's up front as close as I can
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
crate2002 said:
On a different end if things, that might help with over all ride, does anyone have any feedback on skyjacker rear struts? I have the z71 in right now. They handle like a lowered car lol. They will do for the time being but might want to match the bilstein's up front as close as I can

I am one of only a couple to run both the Skyjacker rear springs...they are not struts in the rear...and the Z71 springs. The Z71 springs were rough and rode like shit as you likely mean by the lowered car comment. The Skyjackers are very nice. They handle weight just as well as the Z71, even without being progressive like the Z71. They are taller and you will want to keep that in mind. I run them in place of my previous dual spacer and z71 and sit the same height. Nearly level with Mark's 3 inch front kit and the heavier 88 GM front springs. They are a marked improvement over the Z71 and worth the money. I had BDS shocks, but went to SkyJacker Nitro and it seems to be working quite well.


With your acceleration test...even with not having a ridiculous outside spacer, you will have vibration like you felt until you get it aligned properly. Mine would shimmy and shake when putting the go pedal down hard until I got a good alignment and it has been smooth as silk since.
 

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
HARDTRAILZ said:
With your acceleration test...even with not having a ridiculous outside spacer, you will have vibration like you felt until you get it aligned properly. Mine would shimmy and shake when putting the go pedal down hard until I got a good alignment and it has been smooth as silk since.

Good to know! And thanks for the info on skyjacker! I don't want to trash my tires so Its going in tomorrow for a full alignment. Temporary solution for a rookie mistake using a bolt on top front lift. I'll have to just use it as a grocery getter for the time being until I get new equipment.:sadcry::duh: I ride ATV in the Pennsylvania coal region so Ill still get my offroad fix lol.:celebrate:

Edit: Getting a lift from "The lift meister"! Quality and gets rid of my headache. Again, Thanks for all the help and advice. It is appreciated!
 

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
Front 2.5" lift ordered. Back on the trail soon! I guess you can say, problem solved. Skids and bumper next.
 

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
I'll join today as soon as I am done putting the TB back together lol. I'm new to the forums. I didn't know the others existed. For years I would read over trailvoy but was told recently that site was replaced with others.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
The Canucks killed it...
 

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
Bastards. Well out with the old and in with the new! I'm back on OEM ride hight until the new front lift comes. :sadcry: but on a good note, Nothing broken or damaged. I guess luck was on my side for this rookie mistake. But at least I have the Bilstein HD's up front. Huge improvement from OEM
 

crate2002

Original poster
Member
Nov 9, 2013
22
y3y5agyj.jpg

Well this was fun. Lol but hey it's done. Got the 2.5" lift from MarkMc on front with bilsteinHD's and the z71 set up in the back. Got an alignment done and all is well. Just wanted to report back. Thanks for all the advice and direction. Slowly but surely I'm learning the dos and don'ts with TB's.
 

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