A/C stopped working, excessive pressure on low pressure side

gmcman

Original poster
Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,666
While sitting in traffic ( of course) I realized my A/C stopped working. No blinking lights or codes just warm air. When I arrived home I verified a warm accumulator and no compressor cycling. I put a quick refill can on the low side that has the gauge attached and while I know this isn't totally accurate of a guage, it was far into the red, about 100-110 PSI.

Any thoughts?

Fan clutch is working.
 

KNBlazer

Member
Feb 8, 2012
811
gmcman said:
While sitting in traffic ( of course) I realized my A/C stopped working. No blinking lights or codes just warm air. When I arrived home I verified a warm accumulator and no compressor cycling. I put a quick refill can on the low side that has the gauge attached and while I know this isn't totally accurate of a guage, it was far into the red, about 100-110 PSI.

Any thoughts?

Fan clutch is working.
jumper cable on the clutch cycling switch, if clutch kicks in, you need a new switch...
 

gmcman

Original poster
Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,666
I will try that. I went back out and the compresor turned on then right back off, then after about 10 sec it kicked on and worked. This was without a jumper so likely it's a flaky switch but I will try the jumper.
 

The_Roadie

Lifetime VIP Donor
Member
Nov 19, 2011
9,957
Portland, OR
Statistically, it's the low pressure switch on the accumulator. Second most likely is the compressor clutch gap or magnets weakening. If you cool the compressor off with water, see if it starts working again.

Highly recommend owning a set of Harbor Freight gauges so you can look at both sides.
 

meerschm

Member
Aug 26, 2012
1,079
I have a set of gauges if you want to stop by and hook em up.
 

gmcman

Original poster
Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,666
meerschm said:
I have a set of gauges if you want to stop by and hook em up.
I appreciate that. Wish I was heading up that way today but have so much to get done here, bunch of vehicle maint before beach trip.

I may hit up the HF near me today and see what they have.

Can I replace the low switch without purging the system, or either switch?
 

meerschm

Member
Aug 26, 2012
1,079
The low switch just screws onto a schrader valve (just like the tire fill) so no more than a smidgen of r134a will escape.

I tried this (low pressure switch) and it was not my problem.

I know the HF has a gauge set for around $60 with a nice plastic case.

not sure about the high pressure switch.

I think 100 psi on the low side is around normal for a hot system that is not working. should be closer to 70 psi ambient, if the whole thing is 70 or 80 degrees. (assuming any liquid in the system)
 
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gmcman

Original poster
Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,666
If I pick up a set of gauges I'm definately going to add an anti-blowback valve to them.
 

meerschm

Member
Aug 26, 2012
1,079
the good thing about the low pressure switch is it is pretty cheap, and you really do not need any special tools to change.
 

Texan

Member
Jan 14, 2014
622
If they are like my Robinair gauges the EPA reg's require check valves on the hoses.
No anti-blow back required.
 

24v 4.2

Member
Jan 16, 2013
430
I have had a similar situation with my A/C.

Started on Friday, blowing cold then suddenly hot air (compressor off). Turned off ignition, restarted and cold was back. Now completely intermittent.

I rented the gauge set at Autozone and compressor off,I had approx. 95 psi on high and low side. Compressor on, low: 45-50 high: 198-200 and stable.
(ambient temp 80 w/ very high humidity)

Replaced the low pressure switch at Autozone today; still same problem. Is there a specific brand or updated part # that would be better?

Any suggestions?
 

meerschm

Member
Aug 26, 2012
1,079
does not look like low r134 to me, pressures look pretty close to where they should be.

the chart for my previous '03 I6 called for low/high pressures for those conditions of 31-44 psi low and 160-200 psi high

My guess would be the weak compressor coil. (could also be failing relay which drives the coil, you could troubleshoot when you catch it not working)

you may be able to pull a spacer and reduce the gap, or may have to change the clutch out, which takes a kit, snap ring pliers, and some good dexterity.

( I pulled the fan clutch, fan, and fan shroud for more room)

(mine only acted up when it was well over 95 degrees)
 

24v 4.2

Member
Jan 16, 2013
430
BlazingTrails said:
If it 95 deg outside you should be more like 50 psi low side at idle ac on, and over 300 psi high side. You need freon.
Would 5 psi cause the compressor to not kick on? Or was the high side difference what you were looking at?
 

24v 4.2

Member
Jan 16, 2013
430
I replaced the low pressure switch, where is the high pressure switch?
 

cstern71

Member
Feb 16, 2014
57
I'm not 100% positive, but I believe the high pressure switch is a cutoff switch for excessive high pressure to stop the system from damaging itself. The ac also will not run without a signal from the high pressure switch. They are usually located in the back of the compressor housing and held in with a snap ring. You cannot replace it without discharging the system.

Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Texan

Member
Jan 14, 2014
622
Per the "Mooseman Manuals" here is the poop.

86F-95F Low Side 48-50 PSI High Side 200-240 PSI

96F-105F Low Side 53-56 PSI High Side 240-280 PSI

Add Freon is my last guess.
 

meerschm

Member
Aug 26, 2012
1,079
in post 13, it looked to me like he said it was 80 degrees outside, but that the system-off pressure (low and high side) was 95 psi.

the tables from the manuals are helpful, but assume you have run in the shade for five minutes with the windows open, max cool, and high fan.

if there is enough r134a to run the system at low side pressure of 40 psi, there is probably enough to work with.

my experience (limited, I admit) is that low amounts of r134a will result in the low pressure switch turning off the system as the compressor pulls the low pressure down (looks under five or ten but don't quote me), when the switch is off, the pressure rises on the low side, and falls on the high side, till the low pressure switch engages and lets the compressor clutch fire back up, spinning the compressor, and restarting the cycle. this is normal operation when it is cold, but at any condition on the chart, at test conditions which apply, the low pressure switch shoudl not cycle and the compressor should operate continuously.

I would not try too hard to get the pressure readings on the low or high side right into the table ranges. i watched the guy across the street put that extra bit in, and blew his hoses. the noise was scary, the oil provided a nice wash for the engine compartment, and lucky for him, his son the auto service manager made room in the shop and cut him a deal.

the proper way to set r134a load is to evacuate and load by weight. but that assumes no more oil was added. (like you get in a leak check kit, or in cans which include oil and r134a) you can get away with adding r134a if you see it clearly is way low, but you can get into trouble pushing too much in.

if you still have the gauges, can you see what the pressures do while the system cuts in and out?
 

Texan

Member
Jan 14, 2014
622
I totally agree that you do not want to over charge the system. It can be dangerous.
The accumulator (alum. vessel) under the hood, passenger side has the low pressure
switch attached to it. This vessel has a level of liquid Freon in it that can vary in height,
based on operating conditions and if it gets to low, the system will not cool, and the
pressure will drop because it is just passing a gas to the orifice.
 

budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,180
kanata
24v 4.2 said:
I replaced the low pressure switch, where is the high pressure switch?
Spend a few more dollars and get meter and check the circuitry to see what components aren't getting the right condition (ie. voltage, ground) and then go from there.
 

gmcman

Original poster
Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,666
I can't believe it was last July I had this problem. Well, fast forward to today and it's acting up again. I stopped by the dealer and picked up a low pressure switch, still not working. When I got home, I hooked up the DMM and I have no volts at the head, ground checks out, and the relay is clicking when I pull it out and swap with a known good one, fuse is good also.

It was working for awhile today, 85 deg ambient until I hit traffic. My sorta trusty gauge on the refill can reads 110 psi on the accumlator.

I have a piercing probe that can't handle alot of amps but I tried to jump the red wire to the battery positive to see if it would even try to engage but nothing, may need a better way to jump the terminals at the head.
 

budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,180
kanata
it HAS been a long time. Glad see that you got a meter..... BUT measuring just voltage at one point is probably not going to help you much. Not sure what you meant by "no volts at the head" means.... but if it means you measured the voltage at one side of the low pressure switch.... then you aren't going to see any voltage there since when the switch is working (I think), it is shorted to ground (ie. zero volts). So that means, low pressure ISN'T your problem.

Next up, are you seeing voltage coming to your clutch (ie. connnector)? Of course, you need it to operate the clutch accordingly. IF its not there, then you need to check that the AC relay is operating. Pull the relay and measure to see if there is voltage coming into the relay (at two points) and there is a ground coming in from the controller (in this case, the pcm). Likely case, is that there is NO ground coming into the relay, hence it is not operating. IF so, then odds are the AC pressure switch is telling the PCM that the system is NOT within limits and thus DO NOT operate it.

Of course, you can operate the compressor by jumpering the AC relay appropriately BUT this isn't a good long term solution... just a short term check to see if the compressor "hold magnet" works.
 

gmcman

Original poster
Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,666
My bad, I actually have zero volts at the clutch, I didn't measure the low switch. When I pulled the relay it was pretty warm, not too hot to touch but it was fairly warm.

Also, it started working again tonight and when I got home I put the canister on the accumulator and it was right in the middle of the green. about 35 on the gauge.
 

budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,180
kanata
so zero at the clutch isn't going to make it work as you have found out. Of course, as I suggested earlier, you need to do a few more checks to see what "component" is "unhappy". Good hunting... or just hope that its another year... :smile:
 

triz

Member
Apr 22, 2013
746
I have the same issue on my friends Jetta that Ive been working on for the past few weeks. I need to hook up the multimeter and check the relays and fuses. Pressure on the low side is extremely high. AC diagnostics are something I don't deal with much, so I'll hit the mechanic up the block for some knowledge on it tomorrow and see if there is something I can share here that may solve your issue as well.
 

gmcman

Original poster
Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,666
triz said:
I have the same issue on my friends Jetta that Ive been working on for the past few weeks. I need to hook up the multimeter and check the relays and fuses. Pressure on the low side is extremely high. AC diagnostics are something I don't deal with much, so I'll hit the mechanic up the block for some knowledge on it tomorrow and see if there is something I can share here that may solve your issue as well.
Seems the high pressure on the low side could be common when the system is not running. Once mine is working the low side comes back down. I need to get dirty later and figure it out, could be the high switch on the compressor and not having any juice at the clutch would point at least to that circuit.

What are all the circuits that control the clutch? If not the fuse, relay, low switch and maybe the high switch, is there anything else? Granted this is not including the HVAC controls and the field coil, I'm just curious about the wiring in the engine bay.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
26,027
Ottawa, ON
There is a high side switch too but I think it's mounted on the compressor itself and haven't heard of it failing much. Check the wiring schematics to see what controls the A/C. Does the clutch engage when you jump the relay terminals? If not, check for 12V+ power at the relay itself. If it does, then the PCM is not happy about something. Usually it's a low pressure issue or the switch.

To properly check pressures, you need a full set of gauges for both high and low sides. Your static high low side seems to be normal, especially when it drops to 35 psi when it does run.
 

bobdec

Member
Apr 19, 2013
233
gmcman, you said " Seems the high pressure on the low side could be common when the system is not running." That's correct.. When compressor is not running called a static condition refrigerant pressure is stabilized or equal throughout the complete system. If just turned off it will take a few minuets for stabilization. Pressure in a non running system on both high and low sides should be around 50psi @ 60*F / 70 psi @ 75*F / and 100psi @ 90*F . If the engine bay is hot it will probably be at or above the 90*F temp so 110 psi is about right. .
 
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meerschm

Member
Aug 26, 2012
1,079
You really need high and low side gauges to see what is up.

the offer to use the gauges is still open.

( I had them out yesterday to look at my Jetta)
 

gmcman

Original poster
Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,666
meerschm said:
You really need high and low side gauges to see what is up.

the offer to use the gauges is still open.

( I had them out yesterday to look at my Jetta)
I totally missed your reply, but thanks though....much appreciated.

I was looking under the hood today and I pulled the relay and watched the compressor clutch again. I did see movement but it was a slow movement, the clutch starts to pull against the pulley but is real slow and only moves about half way.

I assume this points to the field coil.
 

budwich

Member
Jun 16, 2013
2,180
kanata
Potentially... but more than likely you could use some shimming on the clutch plate to close the gap.
 

gmcman

Original poster
Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,666
budwich said:
Potentially... but more than likely you could use some shimming on the clutch plate to close the gap.
I will check the gap, maybe it's slipping a little causing excessive heat. But when it's cold, it engages quickly, when hot its real slow, takes about 1 full second to move the entire travel.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
26,027
Ottawa, ON
budwich said:
Potentially... but more than likely you could use some shimming on the clutch plate to close the gap.
No, you would need to REMOVE shims to close the gap.
 
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c good

Member
Dec 8, 2011
636
Weak field coil for sure. This is the common failure as they get old and they get hot (thus why they fail in outside temps over 85-90 degrees) Excessive air gap just makes it even worse. Try removing the shim first under the clutch plate. If that doesn't do it, you will need to find a replacement clutch/field coil set, or new compressor. I believe there are replacement coils/clutch plates available now. At the time mine failed, I couldn't find them available (3-4 years ago). I got a junk yard compressor and replaced the whole compressor, but probably could have just salvaged the clutch/coil assembly and saved the evacuation and refill of the system. HTH c good
 

gmcman

Original poster
Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,666
I picked up a set of gauges today, (thanks Meerschm for the offer) my readings are:

With engine idling

Ambient temp: 78 deg directly if front of grill
Air from vents: 52 deg
Low pressure: 32 PSI and steady
High pressure: 150 PSI with slight needle fluctuation of maybe one needle width, random fluctiations but not rock steady.

It will stay on when idling, if I drive then after 5 to 10 min it shuts off, I turned it on by lightly misting compressor with cold water.
 

gmcman

Original poster
Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,666
With the engine at 2000 RPM, compressor engaged:

Low cycles from 50 PSI down to 22 PSI , when compressor cycles off, takes about 4 seconds to return to 50 PSI

High cycles from 110 PSI up to 175 PSI
 

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