05 Rainier AWD encoder issue?

[ggmurray]

Has some trouble back in 2014 with crow hopping and binding due to a bad encoder motor. Many thanks again to all that helped with the troubleshooting and guidance! Just recently I started having the the same issues again, so with the prior experience leading me to the encoder motor I decided to replace it again which solved the issue, I thought. Everything was fine for a couple of weeks then it started again with the binding and whining while turning into the drive or in a parking space etc. I searched thru the topics again and decided to pull the #8 fuse and reset the TCCM and encoder which I thought had solved the problem but only for another couple weeks then it's back again... So looking over everything again and decided that the tires could possibly be causing me the trouble as they were worn and needed to be replaced. I had a new set put on but within a couple of days with the new tires I'm back to the same situation. Does anyone have some ideas or suggestions? All the fluids have been changed, new tires, tire pressure checked, new encoder motor, however I haven't check the transfer case fluid level, just happen to realize that...Also when I replaced the encoder motor I failed to remove the #8 fuse but would that be an issue? Anyway thanks in advance for any help!

 

[freddyboy61]

How many miles are on your Rainier? The transfer case fluid needs to be changed every 50K miles, especially with an AWD version.

 

[ggmurray]

Fred61 it has 195000...but I changed all the fluids back dec2014 both dif and transfer c. Like you though I'm thinking probably wouldn't hurt to change transfer c fluid again if nothing more than to flush everything and clean off the clutch plates. Back in December 14 it was probably the first time it has ever been changed..

 

[ggmurray]

Well sorry for the delay on this post as I have been restricted from wrenching due to surgery, but finally back in action again! So yesterday I put the rainier back on the stands and changed the TC case fluid to see if that would cure the trouble with the crow hopping and such. It hasn't been long since I've changed it but what heck worth a try! Almost fouled out Though guys sold me some Valvoline transfer case fluid and told me that it was the new stuff everyone was using and it replaced the delco at ll... After coming to my senses I took it back and went to the dealer and picked up the blue stuff!! Anyway, back under the rainier! Drained the fluid, it looked fine and wasn't low and no grinding to be found! I refilled the TC and cleaned up. So it's still up on the jack stands and I thought might as well pull this dorman Encoder motor just to double check on it, it's a brand new warranty motor, should be fine......Well disconnected the connector pulled the 4 bolts and yikes! That joker is jammed on there! Finally got it off and out of the way, I'm able to rotate the TC spline shaft without a problem seemed ok but I'm thinking the encoder is toast again, I've read several post where dorman doesn't last very long! Anyway couldn't find any bench test posts for the encoder so I decided to put it back on ........ Yeah right..... Next to impossible but managed to get it back on but it's not right and won't line up....so I took it back off.....I did see a post where roadie recommended taking the battery lose for 10 or 15 mins to reset the tccm and maybe signal the encoder back to its original position but it doesn't move at all. So is this another bad encoder?, any suggestions anyone? It's still on the stands for now....thanks in advance for any and all help!

 

[ggmurray]

Wanted to upload my profile pic "but how"?

 

[ggmurray]

I figured it out!

 

[Mooseman]

Bench testing the encoder motor on the AWD should be simpler than on 4x4 trucks since it doesn't have an internal brake. Here's the schematic. Just putting 12V to the D and E contacts and then reversing the polarity should make the motor turn in both directions.

Anything electrical from Dorman has not been their strong suit.

 

[ggmurray]

Mooseman I can alway count on you! Thanks so much for the info, the motor's off and I'm heading down to the shop to check it out...standby for the results.

 

[Mooseman]

Standing by...

 

[ggmurray]

Mooseman applied the 12V on D and E and it moved but sounded pretty rough, gears issue, so I swapped the leads and again it moved in the reverse direction but bad rough...and that was it, tried to swap directions again but now it's locked up it tries but won't move. Sounds like it's case closed for the motor don't you think. I'm going to take it back to the parts house and see if they'll warranty a warranty....in the meantime I'm going to shop Ebay for an original used Delco unit so I can get some lasting power! Thanks again Mooseman let me know what you think.

 

[ggmurray]

Mooseman I did notice this however in the encoder...the mating spline has moved to a different spot...here's a pic

 

[Mooseman]

Sure looks like it. How about trying to return it and ask for an ACDelco + price difference? Sometimes they won't give a refund on electrical parts but will exchange to another brand. Be forewarned, the ACDelco aren't cheap.

I also saw Cardone rebuilts but don't have much faith in cardone neither although I don't have any experience with their encoder motors.

Edit for your last post: It's probably stuck to whatever position it has moved to now. It could be the disengaged position but I don't know. either way, it needs to be replaced.

 

[ggmurray]

Yep new one tomorrow for sure! I'll give it up for today but will let you know what happens tomorrow with the swap out and then install tomorrow after work!

 

[ggmurray]

Mooseman project complete! Went to the parts house this morning and had no problem with a warranty on a warranty! seems it's not the first time this has happened. I did ask however about trading up to a delco but it would have been a paperwork nightmare. I gave it a shot though! So back at the shop I took some pics of the encoder right out of the box with the plastic keeper in the spline holding it in what I guess is 2 wheel drive, I pulled the #8 30A fuse and took the plastic keeper off and slid under to the transfer case and just as easy as pie the new encoder mated right up to the case no hassle at all and 4 bolts later, plugged the connector up stuck the 30A fuse back in and took her off the jack stands. I cranked up and away we went everything perfect again! no crow hopping, binding it was great! "Of course the BOSS had to give the approval"!! she told me it drove better than ever! but got on to me about the Auto Trak II stains on the driveway..oh well can't win them all. My next stop tonight is Ebay for a 5pin used original encoder to put on the shelf for safe keeping! Thanks again for all your help! Here are the pics I think it might be good info in case someone wants to know what the default position of the spline is from the factory.

 

[Mike1973]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum and have been doing some reading so hopefully I'm posting in the right spot.
I have a 2004 buick Rainier AWD, V8, 198 000 km. I've been getting the crow hopping as discussed earlier in this post. I too thought I had it boiled down to the encoder motor, however, I have replaced the motor three times in 2 years with dorman motors but the problem always returns! I've gotten to the point where I ripped the guts out of the oldest motor and bolted it back on and have been driving around in rear wheel drive. Thought I'd try fixing it again and came across this thread so this is what I've done recently. Changed all fluids-they were a little dirty but nothing too bad, tested two of the old motors as per Moosemans instructions above, both motors turn. So now I'm puzzled!
I'm not too mechanically knowledgeable so I have a couple questions that I'm hopping you fellas out there can help with.
1. If the motor turns when power is applied does that mean they are good or could they still be bad?
2.Can a problem in the front differential cause the crow hopping?
3.What could be causing the encoder motors to fail?
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[Mooseman]

1. They might not be able to apply enough torque to work properly if they are failing but still able to turn without a load. Pretty much confirmed when you gutted the one motor and ran it in 2wd so this eliminates the transfer case as the issue.

2. No. This is normal behaviour when the front wheels are engaged by the transfer case, same as in 4x4 trucks.

3. Dorman are proven junk. Get an ACDelco or even a reman.

 

[Mike1973]

Thanks Mooseman, looks like I will look for an ACDelco and go from there.