YT: 4200 turbo build

Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
I know a couple of guys asked about turbos. This one is just the install but not tuned yet but interesting how he does it. Not for keeping it all under the hood though.

 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
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Thread Starter
And then.... nothing. It sounds like he made it more complicated than it should be and gave up. Maybe @limequat could throw some knowledge at him but I do know that the pre-08 PCM are harder to program. Maybe he should have went with an 08-09 instead.
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
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Thread Starter
Cool. He's just not working on that turbo build though. Sure hope he doesn't try to swap in the 05 motor into the 08 electronics because we all know that won't work. I'll bet he's gonna hunt for an 08-09 motor if he can get the body and chassis together.
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
Thread Starter
And pt. 5

 
Cool. He's just not working on that turbo build though. Sure hope he doesn't try to swap in the 05 motor into the 08 electronics because we all know that won't work. I'll bet he's gonna hunt for an 08-09 motor if he can get the body and chassis together.
Watched them all last night. I cant remember what video it was but he did speak on grabbing the head off the 08 and doing some port work and maybe put it on the 05 motor. Like you said it won't work but we'll see where he goes with that. Hopefully he finds out sooner than later that picking up a good running 08-09 i6 will be his best option. I sure hope he does go all the way through to the end of this project.
 

Mooseman

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Looks like he may have stalled or abandoned this project. No updates since April.
 

Mike534x

Hobbyist
That's unfortunate. I love seeing what people are capable of doing with the I6. I noticed he had an XUV (no plates) sitting in the back of the lot, when they were moving the upper body outside. Wonder if hes got a small collection em, to toy around with.

Would be great to see more "completed" builds, it seems like a fully working turbo I6 is as scare as the mythical V8 swap.
 

MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
With that idea in mind... This Lad installed and Turbo-Charged a Vortec 4200 Set Up in his Ancient Studebaker Lark that originally sported an NA In-Line Six:


...and here is "The Sloppy Mechanic" 's Video on how he Tuned the Machine ...with real interest and fascination with our GMT360 Engine Platform:

 
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Mike534x

Hobbyist
There's another from going to the drag strip, it seems to be fairly quick. Looks like he still needs to do some tweaks, it did beat the Mustang that crashed and the car that blew its motor :yikes:

 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
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Thread Starter
Here, he tried to 3D print some intake runners and was almost successful. Good proof of concept and also found a possible compatible intake plenum but would require redoing the runners.

 

MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
Here is some interesting background*** on what the behaviors of Longer vs. Shorter Intake Runners are while affecting Engine Performance... especially Racing "ET":


*** The Writer has included a Bonus Link to another Article, "How to Turbo-Charge and Tune Your Engine"
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
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Thread Starter
This one popped up on recommended videos, from member @ConeKilrAutoX


Last I can see from him here is he blew the motor and parted it out.
 

Mektek

Hobbyist
The sacrifices he made - no AC, heat or interior. Not for me...
This truck does not make a good racecar. It looks like that is what he was trying to achieve.
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
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Thread Starter
Still gives ideas on how to turbo this engine.
 

rchalmers3

Gold Supporter
I mean, not the way I would have gone but kudos to him for doing his own thing. The 05 PCM is virtually not tunable for boost. But the 08 PCM (E67) is almost as versatile as an aftermarket ECU.

@limequat Would you please explain more about the E67 capabilities (and limits) as a forced induction controller?

For example, are there additional I/O's available, can some I/O's be reassigned, can boost control be achieved, what are the absolute pressure limits and so on.

I happen to have a 2wd controller out of a 08/2007 TB. It has a tiny E67 stamped on the backing plate, so I'll assume it's the controller you mention. I'm interested to work with you when it comes time to address power adding mods using the stock ECM.

Thank you,
Rick
 

limequat

Hobbyist
@limequat Would you please explain more about the E67 capabilities (and limits) as a forced induction controller?

For example, are there additional I/O's available, can some I/O's be reassigned, can boost control be achieved, what are the absolute pressure limits and so on.

I happen to have a 2wd controller out of a 08/2007 TB. It has a tiny E67 stamped on the backing plate, so I'll assume it's the controller you mention. I'm interested to work with you when it comes time to address power adding mods using the stock ECM.

Thank you,
Rick
Hi Rick,
The P12 PCM is limited in that it can only read 67 lb/min airflow and it only uses the first 11khz of the maf. The E67 can use the full range of the maf and read over 500 lb/min. The P12 spark tables only go to about 2 bar. The E67 spark table axes are calibratable -so you could theoretically have unique spark timing at 50 psi.
The E67 can do E85, intercooler pump, and dual VVT (if only). There's probably more, but that's what I know...
 

rchalmers3

Gold Supporter
Gentlemen,
I'm intrigued by the idea of retaining the E67 controller for operating a forced induction application.
I see the above examples and cannot help but wonder if their choice of controller is causing some of their headaches. What are your thoughts? Additionally, I already have a pile of stock harnesses and a few controllers. Purchasing a replacement stand alone control system seems wasteful and unnecessary to me at this juncture. Am I right?

Rick
 

rchalmers3

Gold Supporter
@limequat, a simple question: Can the E67 controller be used retroactive on the 2006 engine with the 7x crank reluctor? Besides the crank counter, would there be any other obstacles to having the E67 manage the older engine?
 

limequat

Hobbyist
@limequat, a simple question: Can the E67 controller be used retroactive on the 2006 engine with the 7x crank reluctor? Besides the crank counter, would there be any other obstacles to having the E67 manage the older engine?

Unfortunately there is no easy way for the E67 to control an 06-07 engine. Many people have made this mistake and had to get new engines.
Besides the crank teeth, the cam teeth are different too. In fact, many of the sensors and actuators are different and would need to be switched over such as the throttle body and crank sensor itself.
 

cornchip

Hobbyist
Someone who was industrious could theoretically swap out the cam sprockets and build an external 58x reluctor wheel.


That's some real outside the engine thinking. :biggrin:

Say Lime, I seen this today on the 4200 Facebook page about the complete intake cam sprocket replacement from an MY 06-07 onto the MY 08-09 to fix MS3's problematic software issues. Do you think it's a thing? From what I read earlier, MS3 was somehow broken from a software standpoint across the board for controlling the VVT on the 4200. I was certain Jarrod had this working on the Vega years back.
 

rchalmers3

Gold Supporter
Besides the crank teeth, the cam teeth are different too. In fact, many of the sensors and actuators are different and would need to be switched over such as the throttle body and crank sensor itself.

Thank you limequat, I appreciate your insight. I have a pile of mixed parts from a variety of year models to pull from, and I noticed a MAF sensor on the intake tube of what is presumably a newer year model. I need to back up a bit and match the harnesses, sensors and computers to their respective years.

I'll be sending you a P12 controller for unlocking and to configure for stand alone operation . How do I identify the P12 from the earlier and later models?

Rick
 

limequat

Hobbyist
That's some real outside the engine thinking. :biggrin:

Say Lime, I seen this today on the 4200 Facebook page about the complete intake cam sprocket replacement from an MY 06-07 onto the MY 08-09 to fix MS3's problematic software issues. Do you think it's a thing? From what I read earlier, MS3 was somehow broken from a software standpoint across the board for controlling the VVT on the 4200. I was certain Jarrod had this working on the Vega years back.

I'm not sure if they got MS3 working for VVT for any sprocket. But it makes sense that you could change the sprockets around for whatever is supported.
 

limequat

Hobbyist
Thank you limequat, I appreciate your insight. I have a pile of mixed parts from a variety of year models to pull from, and I noticed a MAF sensor on the intake tube of what is presumably a newer year model. I need to back up a bit and match the harnesses, sensors and computers to their respective years.

I'll be sending you a P12 controller for unlocking and to configure for stand alone operation . How do I identify the P12 from the earlier and later models?

Rick

The 2002-2005 PCM looks unlike any other GM PCM. It's sealed and has 3 large connectors that are the same size.
The P12 PCM has a form factor that is similar to many other PCMs. It has a blue, gray, and black connector. The black one is bigger.
p12pcmsmall.jpg

The E67 PCM was used in 2008 and 2009. It is nearly indistinguishable from the P12. You can tell it from the extra keying on the connectors that the P12 doesn't have.
 

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