Which Truck (Part 2)!

Which Vehicle..?

  • 2006 Buick Rainier 4000 (Not local OKC)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2006 Saab 9-7x 6000 (Not Local Las Cruces)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2000 Pontiac Grand Am GT 1800 (Local)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    7
  • Poll closed .

TollKeeper

Original poster
Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
Please remember to vote at the bottom after reading the topic

So after my wifes car broke down yesterday, and me needing my XUV to go to work.....

Well its time I have a 3rd car for those other occasions.

I tried going back to the the 9-7x that I was contimplating about buying in my first thread....
Original thread
But as expected, hes already sold it.

So now I am looking at buying 1 of 5 candidates... All are V8 except the last one.

2007 GMC Envoy Denali
Higher miles at 168k, all the options I want, new transmission, and new tires. Private owner. Going to go look at it tomorrow.
2007 Envoy in Denver

2005 Buick Rainier
OK miles at 110k, Almost all the options I want (No nav, or rear seat entertainment) unknown service history. Private Owner I believe. Have not communicated with the owner yet.
2005 Buick Rainier in Phoenix

2006 Buick Rainier
OK miles at 130k, all the options I want, unknown service history. Dealer. Already talked them down to 4000. Waiting on the AutoCheck/CarFax right now.
2006 Buick Rainier in OKC

2006 Saab 9-7x
OK Miles at 119k, Almost all the options I want (No Nav). Looks to be a private owner. More than I want to spend. Have not communicated with the owner yet.
2006 Saab 9-7x in Las Cruces

2000 Pontiac Grand Am GT
Good miles at 87k, none of the options I want, but its really cheap, and local. Talked the owner down to 1800.
2000 Pontiac Grand Am in Denver

I like the Envoy, just because its close, no flying out to get it.. Wife is saying no, to many miles. Right Price
The one is OKC is my second choice, as it has the options I want, at the price I want.
Its a tie for 3rd for the 9-7x in Las Cruces and the Rainier in Phoenix
But that Grand Am.. My problem with the GA is that its a car, its FWD, and my back will hardly allow me to get in and out comfortably.

So thats my conundrum..
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Be aware that the Rainiers and 9-7x will have the part time AWD "slip-bang" system so the Denali is the only true 4x4 for winter driving. That dealer is spewing BS saying it's the same as an SS.

Both Rainiers look more attractive than the Envoy but cost increases due to travel. Being out of the rust belt may be a plus for both. I'm leaning a bit more towards the '05 just because of the lower mileage but it doesn't have Stabilitrak if that matters. The '06 does but has slightly higher mileage.

The 9-7x is overpriced compared to the others. Just remember that some parts may be impossible to find because it's a Saab. Cup holders absolutely suck if that matters.

Forget the car. Bad back will kill ya with it. SUV's are a blessing for this, trust me.

For any of them, be sure to ask what is the status of the AFM/DOD if it has ever been repaired or deleted. Those first few years were the worst.
 
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Maverick6587

Member
Dec 16, 2018
730
Sterling Heights, Michigan
For the price and your need for it just being a third optional vehicle, I'd say the Grand Am.

If you're thinking of making your XUV the "third" vehicle, I'd say go for the Rainier or the 9-7x. Whichever one still has the airbags, that ride will be amazing!
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
And that's another thing to ask, if the rear air suspension has ever been repaired or replaced with springs because it will fail.
 

TollKeeper

Original poster
Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
So in regards to the slip bang system. I almost religiously use my XUV with the A4WD. Whats the diference inbetween A4WD and the Rainier/9-7x AWD?

If we buy the Grand Am, it would become the 3rd vehicle, if we buy any of the other vehicles listed, it would be the XUV.

Edit: Am I remembering correctly that the 2005 models also dont have the AFM/DOD?
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
So in regards to the slip bang system. I almost religiously use my XUV with the A4WD. Whats the diference inbetween A4WD and the Rainier/9-7x AWD?

A4WD in 4x4 trucks seem to work smoother but we never recommend using it. If you need traction, use 4hi, if not, 2wd. Using A4WD just wears parts more spinning all the time.

dit: Am I remembering correctly that the 2005 models also dont have the AFM/DOD?

Yes it did, first year. We were the guinea pigs.


LH6
The Vortec 5300 LH6 (VIN code "M") with Active Fuel Management replaced the LM4 for 2005, and was the first of the Generation IV small block V8 truck engines to go into production. The LH6 produced 300 to 315 hp (224 to 235 kW) and 330 to 338 lb⋅ft (447 to 458 N⋅m). It is the aluminum block counterpart to the LY5.



LH6 applications:
 
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Reprise

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I don't like the Grand Am b/c it had the 3.4, and ones of that vintage had problems w/ the intake manifold leaking coolant. It has to be watched. Best fix is the Fel-Pro 'problem solver'. Trans is the 4T65; I had one in a GP and it shifted beautifully.
Guy I worked with a couple of years ago had GAGT w/ 250K on it (all hwy) and it still ran well (he was waiting years for the Tesla he wanted to be released). And that's not unusual if they're maintained (like most vehicles)

Denali has air suspension, (more) rust, being in CO, and the wife doesn't like it. Three strikes.

Your #2 is the OKC Ranier, but I don't like the dealer. Could be a jewel, but Moose nailed the dealer (and it's named 'Good Guys', besides. Run... lol.

Saab - pricey, parts, quirky ergos, and non-std CAN / ECM. But if you're a Saab fan, then it's already too late :wink:

That leaves the AZ Rainier, I believe. Long trip, least rust. Might be too long to road trip it w/ the wife or a buddy. If you need the 3rd car soon, then ok. Otherwise, keep looking for something closer.
 

TollKeeper

Original poster
Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
So Grand Am is out. Was a California emissions car, sat on some car lot a long time, and every single plastic item on the interior was curling, dash was wasted, needed tires, needed intake gasket, security light was on, they had just recently replaced a rusted out brake line, etc... But it drove nice lol. The owner was a pot head, and a complete college space cadet.

The Phoenix Rainier is also out, owner sold it today.

So we are down to 2. Denver Envoy, and OKC Rainier.

Colorado is in the rust belt? When did that happen, they didn't even use salt on the roads until this year. My Envoy is completely rust free, same with my Aztek, and every family members car that lives here. Rust, as far as I know, has never been a Colorado thing.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I was not aware CO didn't use salt so disregard those comments.

Another thing going against the Envoy is the hail body damage. Might be deal killer if it really bothers you. If buying as a beater, then not so much but the mileage is always there.

Good luck!
 

TollKeeper

Original poster
Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
@Mooseman , sorry man was a little irritated when I got home last night, was expecting a lot more out of the grand am, but the seller never indicated any engine problems. As we were test driving it, the owner said to keep an eye on the temp gauge as it tends to over heat. I think that would be something you put in the for sale ad. It was leaking coolant when we got back from the test drive... Yeah, I was just irritated.
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
No problem man. Didn't take it as such. Hope your hunt gets better.
 

Eric04

Member
Dec 3, 2014
392
West Michigan
I like the Denver Envoy in general. Fair price to start with, and IIRC your wife doesn't have much of a commute anyway so you wouldn't have to rack up miles fast on it. I'm curious as to what "new trans" means to the seller as I've found this can mean anything from a shop fixed it to crate reman, etc. If the mechanicals check out I think it would be a good addition.
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
@Eric04 Dealer crate reman is what he means by new trans, still under warranty.

So I went and test drove the Envoy today. And I'm on the fence about it too be honest. It was clean enough, but it has its issues for sure. The engine has this sound like there no air filter or intake hose. It's much louder under acceleration than mine. The air suspension is flat. Compressor works, but only picks up the back of the truck a little bit before it shuts off and starts going back down. It has hail damage, but that doesn't bother me, and except for a few dents on the driver's side doors, it's hardly noticable. The roof has quite a few dimples, but I'm alright with that. Windshield needs immediate replacement. And while I was driving it, the engine was pinging really bad. The leather and plastic need a deep cleaning.

He talked himself down to 3500, I never made an offer. I was honest with him and told him I was looking at other cars, if we need to discuss it further I will call. Wife says no. I'm on the fence, but my wife may not be mechanically inclined, but I've learned to listen to her. I wonder if I should on this one too.

Then on my way home, a 2010 Volvo XC90 V8 at a dealer caught my eye. I test drove it, and... I almost bought it. There were some issues that I found with the car that would need to be fixed before I would even consider it. Told the dealer to call me if they resolve them, but one was substantial, and I have a feeling that Volvo is going to be finding it's way too an auction. It has a GM 6T80 transmission. And when you put it into gear, it shifted hard with a bang, then shifted out of gear, then back into gear with a bang.

Looking around, researching the Volvo forums, there are certain years to stay away from. 05-07.5.

The power delivery of that V8 was awesome. It was quite nimble, sure footed, with a stellar radio. A great exhaust note. I'm just not sure of the haldex AWD assembly. It's a Yamaha motor, GM trans, Volvo everything else. I know a lot about GM, but not Volvo. No timing belt thou, that's a big plus.
 

Mounce

Member
Mar 29, 2014
13,667
Tuscaloosa, AL
FWIW the v8's do make a pinging noise. However it's not detonation or any of the killers, have heard more than one with it. As far as I can tell it's loud injectors or just valve train noise.

If it weren't for the DOD system I wouldn't be scared of the 'higher' mile units you listed. I haven't had the joys of first hand experience with those but know well that the Chevy v8 is tried and true and will make it well over 200k with proper maintenance short of an unforseen mechanical failure.

Seeing what's left in your running I'd choose the envoy, convert it to springs, and call it good.
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
This was more of a detonation ping under moderately heavy acceleration. Very crisp, very noticable, and didn't stop until I let of the throttle.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
The noise could be like mine. It happens between 2000 and 4000 RPM and sounds like a sewing machine. It's been doing it for years. Thought it was the valvetrain so I did a DOD delete and replaced everything but that wasn't it. It's something in the block. Could be piston slap but it does it all the time and not temperature dependant. It has quieted down somewhat lately.
 

Reprise

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Jul 22, 2015
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It has a GM 6T80 transmission. And when you put it into gear, it shifted hard with a bang, then shifted out of gear, then back into gear with a bang.

Might be the clutch boost valve in the VB (they wear in the bore, similar to what happens in our 4L60s.) It's correctable with an oversize valve & reamer kit (Sonnax). Line pressure is too low at initial engagement; pump compensates, & the clutch re-engages. I've never worked with one of these; the above info is just from a little research, so take it for what it is. Oh, and there are 3 of the same boost valves; this sounds like one of the three (1-2-3-4 valve). Being a 2010, and a 6T80, it has all of GMs design fixes applied to it except for what are called 'wave plates' (affect clutches in the 3 higher gears). Yeah, that requires a teardown to replace those, and they don't just wear, they break.

Here's a 57pg powerpoint from Sonnax on the 6T60 and its relatives

This was more of a detonation ping under moderately heavy acceleration. Very crisp, very noticable, and didn't stop until I let of the throttle.

I wonder if excess carbon buildup might be a cause, and some of the GM top-end cleaner might help (there are threads here on how to apply it). As a last gasp, could try a slightly colder plug. And a tank or two of 93+ octane might help troubleshoot, too.
That being said... might be best to trust your (collective) gut & pass on this one.
 
Last edited:

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
Well I ended up going a completely different direction..

I REALLY liked that Volvo XC90. But after getting home, reading reviews, problems, etc.. Yea lets not do that! My wife really liked the XC90. But, after reading those reviews, it would have been a good car for her, as she is an easy driver, travels right around 4000 miles a year, etc. But for me, it would have been a bad car. I have a little to much lead in my foot, and the XC90's dont respond well to that.

There are a view considerations I have to make when looking for a car. 1) My wife MUST be able to drive it. 2) I must be comfortable in driving it. The GMT360 fits both bills. But the prices for good condition, with decent miles is ludicrous, or far away.

So doing my daily cruising around craigslist I ran across a 2005 Buick Rendezvous CXL Sport Plus AWD 3.6, with insanely low mileage at 61k. Although I am not really a big fan of these cars, they are still decent cars, and my wife can drive them, and I am comfortable driving them. The elderly lady selling it was very nice, and let me buy it at a cheap price. It needs minor work, a the headlights need replacing. For 1000 bucks... Well she is now in my garage while I wait for some new headlight lenses to be delivered.
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Congrats. Those are built on the same platform as the Venture/Montana vans and is the better looking cousin of the Aztek. That would be the 60deg V6 right? They do have their fair share of issues but for the years I had my 08 Montana SV6 3900, it gave me no grief except for the water pump.

The AWD will be nice in the snow.
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
Yea, its built on the U-Platform, just like my wifes Aztek. It is the same as the 60* v6. This is a DOHC with 3 timing chains ☹ . But It should be good for a bit. The 3.6 problems are typically 1 of 2. Timing chain slop, or VVT Phasers being clogged by oil (remind you of anything?)
 

littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
Yea, its built on the U-Platform, just like my wifes Aztek. It is the same as the 60* v6. This is a DOHC with 3 timing chains ☹ . But It should be good for a bit. The 3.6 problems are typically 1 of 2. Timing chain slop, or VVT Phasers being clogged by oil (remind you of anything?)
They also like to burn oil. Its a cousin to the 3.6 in my Colorado actually. Pretty solid engines otherwise.
 

TollKeeper

Original poster
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Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
Well, I might be buying another GMT360. I found a pretty sweet deal on a truck with low miles, will find out Friday if he is going to sell to me. If he is, ROAD TRIP! LOL!. Its a few hours away.

I like my GMT250 (Buick Rendezvous), but its not comfortable for long trips, and fuel mileage is only marginally better than the Envoy. I got a buddy at work offering me more than I got in my Rendezvous, and a lot more than purchasing the new GMT360.
 
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