Water in Envoy rear bumper backup lights

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
How do I stop water from collecting in these lights?!?!
It seems there is constantly over 1/4" of water in these. Since I noticed it I try and keep dielectric grease caked into the light connectors, but this runs out over time and the lights connectors rust out.
The light twisted in seems to have a sealed connection, maybe I am missing something? I only took 1 assembly off once but didnt notice anything special to cause that much water to collect
 

WarGawd

Member
Sep 2, 2012
468
I wouldn't say it's constant, but there were several times where the water in mine built up (and later seemed to evaporate or drain out), despite what seemed to be tight seals by the rubbber surroundiong the socket housing. And yes that caused connector issues that so far I've managed to deal with by simple cleaning - at some point I expect to have to replace the connector due to rust/cleaning damage. Haven't had time to look into how the water gets in, nor attempt to prevent it. Sorry to post a non-solution comment...but if I come up with anything I'll post it.
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
WarGawd said:
I wouldn't say it's constant, but there were several times where the water in mine built up (and later seemed to evaporate or drain out), despite what seemed to be tight seals by the rubbber surroundiong the socket housing. And yes that caused connector issues that so far I've managed to deal with by simple cleaning - at some point I expect to have to replace the connector due to rust/cleaning damage. Haven't had time to look into how the water gets in, nor attempt to prevent it. Sorry to post a non-solution comment...but if I come up with anything I'll post it.

I know water in headlights is from seal cracks, but this amount of water is crazy. When I first saw it I was sure my daughter backed into a pond or something and emptied them out. but it seems to always be there. both lights.
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
This is still causing problems...
I have the socket FILLED with dielectric grease but bulbs are still failing. just had to replace another bulb and of course the light has a ton of water in it...
The bulb does not even look blown.
In fact the bulb I replaced 7/13 is the same one I just replaced.
 

TheGambler

Member
Sep 12, 2012
39
I keep blowing bulbs in mine until I replaced the socket. DON'T GO TO THE DEALERSHIP UNLESS YOU HAVE TO. I bought one at mine and it was $66. I went to a wrecking yard bought something and they gave it to me when I asked about one.
 

RayVoy

Member
Nov 20, 2011
939
Water and voltage will cause the socket to corrode, a corroded socket will cause the bulb to overheat and fail. As TheGambler said, you need to replace the sockets, then, keep the water out.

GM placed them right behind the rear wheels, did they really think they would stay dry!!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually used a silicone caulking to seal mine, problem was gone.
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
RayVoy said:
Water and voltage will cause the socket to corrode, a corroded socket will cause the bulb to overheat and fail. As TheGambler said, you need to replace the sockets, then, keep the water out.

GM placed them right behind the rear wheels, did they really think they would stay dry!!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually used a silicone caulking to seal mine, problem was gone.

Yeah the sockets were rusting out. the dielectric grease stopped that for now.
I guess I will have to pull the lights out of the bumper and inspect for cracks and or reseal them with a heat gun or caulk. so annoying.
replacing the socket would need to cut the wires I would assume as I didnt notice any other way. not a big deal to me.
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295

Tofer76

Member
Dec 8, 2011
148
or you could put a lil drain hole in them lol . id like to pull mine out and get some sort of fog or driving light mounted in there for better reverse lights . might even wire them to a secondary switch for those 'rectal orifices" who tailgate or leave their brights on!!!:thumbsup:
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
Hrmmm odd amazon spammed me on my searches and showed me some replacement enclosures... at $18 I am just going to replace the whole housing instead of resealing them.... actually I got them off ebay 2 for $30. at $30 my time to fix them costs more than just buying new replacements!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H8VTH8/?tag=gmtnation-20
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
OK! I finally took the 10minutes to remove the 4 bolts and replace these light assemblies....

HOLY NOT..... 2hours later

the nuts are so tight onto the bolts that they tore out of the light assemblies and after clamping down on 3 of them to break them loose which is the entire time unscrewing them.... I destroyed my vice grips needing to drill out the last one pushing it back through and aborting even trying to get the nut off the bolt.
WHY are these nuts so tight to these bolts?!?! I dont see rust as the culprit maybe loctite!?! why?!?! no reason for that!
I greased up the nuts when installing the new ones! wow 2 hours of my life wasted on 4 simple nuts.

That is what my vice grips look like CLOSED now! thanks GM! wow...
 

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Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
Looks like you need real vice grips not cheap ones :tongue:

But wow that's crazy.
 
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bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
Sparky said:
Looks like you need real vice grips not cheap ones :tongue:

But wow that's crazy.

Haha those vice grips are like 25years old and worked perfect till this...
The problem is you need to clamp them onto a threaded screw while trying to loosen a nut that is seemingly glued on. which required me to clamp the vice grips so tight the top part broke the weld. I needed to use another set of pliers to stop the vice grips from turning and also bent the jaws.
I even slowly filed the last 2 bolts to 2 flattened sides sides which got one off but the vice grips broke in that process.
I had some new sears monster grip pliers but they were too bulky to fit into the light well and also couldnt clamp the bolt tight enough to stop it from spinning even with flattened sides, the bolt just tore apart as seen in the pic...

THANKFULLY I didnt do what I had planned in taking the lights out and resealing them or I would have been really angry! :wink:
 

IllogicTC

Member
Dec 30, 2013
3,452
bspurloc said:
Haha those vice grips are like 25years old and worked perfect till this...

What brand? Sounds like some really nice bang for the buck.

And thanks for the details on your maintenance, maybe some other guys looking into doing this will be a little more enlightened on potential issues :thumbsup:
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
IllogicTC said:
What brand? Sounds like some really nice bang for the buck.

And thanks for the details on your maintenance, maybe some other guys looking into doing this will be a little more enlightened on potential issues :thumbsup:

TYC 17-5161-01 box says 02-09 Envoy

Is what I bought they are on amazon for around $17.
 

IllogicTC

Member
Dec 30, 2013
3,452
bspurloc said:
TYC 17-5161-01 box says 02-09 Envoy

Is what I bought they are on amazon for around $17.

I meant the vice grips :rotfl: I have a TYC passenger side headlamp assembly. It was on there when I bought the thing. Looks darn close to the original (a couple of the clear-plastic markings are different is all), but it seems to be suffering oxidation at a quicker rate than the factory-installed OEM on the other side.
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
IllogicTC said:
I meant the vice grips :rotfl: I have a TYC passenger side headlamp assembly. It was on there when I bought the thing. Looks darn close to the original (a couple of the clear-plastic markings are different is all), but it seems to be suffering oxidation at a quicker rate than the factory-installed OEM on the other side.

Lion Head is the brand. I can't find them on the internet so must be really old...
I just slammed the top piece back in and I am going to either drill a hole and pin the top like other vice grips have and or weld it back into place heh. They had it head in place by high pressure dimples. you can see the dimple in the picture and the fresh golden metal where it pulled from it.
I bought brand new head lamps for this Envoy with lights off ebay many years ago I think they were $60 each? hit them with a heatgun opened them up and removed the Orange reflectors out of them and heat gunned them back together. they are still sealed fine after all these years and look Euro.
I posted pictures etc on that "Other" gmc website. (wow 4+ years ago I did this)

"bspurloc
05-06-2009, 12:05 PM
FYI....
I got the digital heat GUN From homedepot.com for I think $35.
I bought new headlights from this guy on ebay for a CRAZY price BOTH left/right headlights for $130
headlightsdepot on eBay
NOTE this guys 'ebay' prices for headlights are INSANELY cheap they come with the lights too!

Set the heat gun to 850 and pried the lenses apart, the first lense I bent out the flanges a little too much it is called a learning curve. The second headlight I did perfectly and fixed any bends I did before putting it back together.
The whole thing is relatively simple after you get the hang of it. Not much heat is really needed, the hard part is getting the lenses to initially give then its all some heat some pull and some glue manipulation.

I put orange bulbs in place of the missing orange lenses, the end product is pretty damn good looking."
 

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IllogicTC

Member
Dec 30, 2013
3,452
You know if you can find a Buick Rainier you can swap your running boards, Rainier came with a board option that had chrome on the side since it looks like you're into that. I myself have a set, they look pretty killer.

Also you can do the smoke-lens swap for the orange lenses on your mirror to complete the "yellow-delete."

Sorry, back on-topic, let us know how those TYC lamps work out for you. If they prove pretty durable and hold up for a while, it'd open up our options more. Seems like half the stuff on the 360/370/305 platform requires GenuineGM or it throws a fit :rotfl:

I've noticed a lot of Envoys the lenses on the backup lamps appear pretty foggy, was that the way they came off the factory or is it oxidizing quicker due to the placement or something? TrailBlazer backup lamps are pretty-much clear in the assembly.
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
IllogicTC said:
You know if you can find a Buick Rainier you can swap your running boards, Rainier came with a board option that had chrome on the side since it looks like you're into that. I myself have a set, they look pretty killer.

Also you can do the smoke-lens swap for the orange lenses on your mirror to complete the "yellow-delete."

Sorry, back on-topic, let us know how those TYC lamps work out for you. If they prove pretty durable and hold up for a while, it'd open up our options more. Seems like half the stuff on the 360/370/305 platform requires GenuineGM or it throws a fit :rotfl:

I've noticed a lot of Envoys the lenses on the backup lamps appear pretty foggy, was that the way they came off the factory or is it oxidizing quicker due to the placement or something? TrailBlazer backup lamps are pretty-much clear in the assembly.

Oh this is my Daughters car not mine! that was 2009! haha it looks in much worse shape now! she has since crushed the front end. I had to hangar wire lattice all the back supports on the left side to hold the head lamp stiff. replaced the front bumper cover. removed the running boards cuz she hit a curb crushing one, she then hit something else cracking the front bumper again! now I see someone backed into her ripping the back right bumper cover. my father backed into it slightly denting a back door. replaced the alternator at 150k, replaced the AC pulley bearing at 180k, replaced the clogged cat converter, replaced an ignition relay causing stalling, replaced a 1 fan in the twin electric fan upgrade I did on it cuz I broke a fin off it... aka I am done fixing this car! haha... or tired of it. oh replaced front right wheel bearing. replaced stock radio with a more advanced one... I still have LED's sitting in a pile cuz I was going to pull the speedo area and replace all the lighting with leds.
the backup lenses I pulled out were all yellow and constantly filled with 1/4 of water. these TYC looked pretty clear. time will tell though
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
Well............
I just checked the lights to see how they were doing... as I went to bend down I saw droplets of water on the left lens and there is some water collecting in the bottom...
The right side looked fine for now, but this seems like the only way to stop this is drilling a huge hole in the bottom of the lens for water to drain out... pathetic.
 

IllogicTC

Member
Dec 30, 2013
3,452
bspurloc said:
Well............
I just checked the lights to see how they were doing... as I went to bend down I saw droplets of water on the left lens and there is some water collecting in the bottom...
The right side looked fine for now, but this seems like the only way to stop this is drilling a huge hole in the bottom of the lens for water to drain out... pathetic.

Or getting the assembly veeerrryyyy familiar with silicone sealant or something. Though good luck changing a bulb after that :eek::rotfl: I don't think it'd have to be a huge hole if you're going that route. Huge would allow debris in more easily :frown:
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
IllogicTC said:
Or getting the assembly veeerrryyyy familiar with silicone sealant or something. Though good luck changing a bulb after that :eek::rotfl: I don't think it'd have to be a huge hole if you're going that route. Huge would allow debris in more easily :frown:


silicone the seal bulb assembly to screw in insert?
I guess that could be the next thing since there is no way this new one is cracked, maybe that is the problem!
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
OK....

I am at a total loss, the rear light still have water in them not as much as the old ones. I even sealed the bulb with axle grease...
Maybe its the same water from months ago and didnt evaporate???

no one else has this problem? should I just drill drain holes at this point? really annoying!
 

IllogicTC

Member
Dec 30, 2013
3,452
bspurloc said:
OK....

I am at a total loss, the rear light still have water in them not as much as the old ones. I even sealed the bulb with axle grease...
Maybe its the same water from months ago and didnt evaporate???

no one else has this problem? should I just drill drain holes at this point? really annoying!
That's the immediate "solution," but I've never experienced this myself nor do I have an Envoy, so I'm probably not the guy to just trust because he said "hey it could work" without seeing if anyone else can come up with anything. A very small hole in as hidden of an area as possible would probably do the trick. Personally though I would rather try figuring out just what is going on here.

A hole doesn't fix, it just alleviates. If permanent alleviation is the only solution so be it, but knowing water is still getting in there even if it gets back out would drive me crazy.
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
IllogicTC said:
That's the immediate "solution," but I've never experienced this myself nor do I have an Envoy, so I'm probably not the guy to just trust because he said "hey it could work" without seeing if anyone else can come up with anything. A very small hole in as hidden of an area as possible would probably do the trick. Personally though I would rather try figuring out just what is going on here.

A hole doesn't fix, it just alleviates. If permanent alleviation is the only solution so be it, but knowing water is still getting in there even if it gets back out would drive me crazy.

yeah its driving me nuts! and corroding the connectors which are caked with dielectric grease because of this!
but this is just insane. 2 brand new lenses... HOW is there water in there!!!! i need to dump the present water out... maybe its so sealed now the water cant get out! but there are droplets all over the lense which says water is getting in! or matybe its evaporating and condensing on the lens... water cant just vanish it needs to go somewhere
 

dmanns67

Member
Apr 3, 2013
32,979
Ohio
bspurloc said:
OK....

I am at a total loss, the rear light still have water in them not as much as the old ones. I even sealed the bulb with axle grease...
Maybe its the same water from months ago and didnt evaporate???

no one else has this problem? should I just drill drain holes at this point? really annoying!
I have seen this issue with after market lighting from headlights to fog lights. Anytime I buy new fog lights, headlights, tail lights, etc, I seal them with clear silicone which you can pick up from Lowe's. Seems to do the trick, no more water or moisture in the housings. Like Illogic said, drilling the hole will not solve the problem, but it will just give the water some where to go.
 
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bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
dmanns67 said:
I have seen this issue with after market lighting from headlights to fog lights. Anytime I buy new fog lights, headlights, tail lights, etc, I seal them with clear silicone which you can pick up from Lowe's. Seems to do the trick, no more water or moisture in the housings. Like Illogic said, drilling the hole will not solve the problem, but it will just give the water some where to go.
I dont know what I would be sealing they arent cracked. the stock lights would collect almost an inch of water, these brand new ones the water sits at .5 inches. sealing where the light bulb screws into them? I put axle grease on that area a month ago to try and stop it without success. blah. both sides always equal amounts of water in them..
 

dmanns67

Member
Apr 3, 2013
32,979
Ohio
If you have cracks you can seal them as well, but I was talking about where the clear lens meets the body of the housing. From my experience, that area has been the cause of water/moisture. I am not familiar with the Voy reverse light housings. Is there a small gap between the lens and housing? If there is, that would be what I am talking about. A little silicone around where the bulb is not inserted might not hurt either.
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,700
Tampa Bay Area, FL
Put some mud flaps on the back, prevent the tire spray from saturating the reverse light housings, and no more water accumulation That's one route you could go. :twocents:
 
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bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
dmanns67 said:
If you have cracks you can seal them as well, but I was talking about where the clear lens meets the body of the housing. From my experience, that area has been the cause of water/moisture. I am not familiar with the Voy reverse light housings. Is there a small gap between the lens and housing? If there is, that would be what I am talking about. A little silicone around where the bulb is not inserted might not hurt either.
The lights are a sealed container the only hole is where you twist the bulb into the back.
you can see front back here http://www.ebay.com/itm/for-Pontiac-Solstice-GMC-Envoy-XL-Rear-Reverse-Backup-Light-/310678296098
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
Blckshdw said:
Put some mud flaps on the back, prevent the tire spray from saturating the reverse light housings, and no more water accumulation That's one route you could go. :twocents:
not sure how getting a sealed systems exterior wet would cause it to get water in it, HOWEVER weirder thigns happen, do you know that works?? if so I would just protect the back of the bulbs to deflect spray away
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,700
Tampa Bay Area, FL
The seal around the rim has to have a gap somewhere, if the bulb is packed with grease that hasn't washed out. That's the only other explanation. I would do like Dave says, and run a small bead of silicone around the rim of the housing where the lens meets the base. If water was still getting inside, I would just go with mudflaps to keep the tire spray off them all together.
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
ok. I'll try something with these in a few days. too beat down from fixing a corroded fuel pump wire and replacing the pump.
thanks for combining my 2 posts! I dont see a SEE POSTS by me in my profile area like the old site had so I couldnt find my post!
 

Blckshdw

Moderator
Nov 20, 2011
10,700
Tampa Bay Area, FL
bspurloc said:
ok. I'll try something with these in a few days. too beat down from fixing a corroded fuel pump wire and replacing the pump.
thanks for combining my 2 posts! I dont see a SEE POSTS by me in my profile area like the old site had so I couldnt find my post!
On the right side of your profile page, just above the member map, there's a button that says "Find Content" You'll also see it in threads, if you hover the mouse over your name, a window will pop up, and the Find Content button will be just below your avatar. That should bring up your posts. :thumbsup:
 

bspurloc

Original poster
Member
Dec 27, 2012
295
Blckshdw said:
On the right side of your profile page, just above the member map, there's a button that says "Find Content" You'll also see it in threads, if you hover the mouse over your name, a window will pop up, and the Find Content button will be just below your avatar. That should bring up your posts. :thumbsup:
cool thanks! still getting used to the new setup!
 

LikeEnvoy

Member
Apr 17, 2012
128
Winnipeg, MB
I already swapped my driver-side reverse lamp socket once and cleaned the contacts twice- this time the contacts had had it, plus the plastic socket was in bad shape from removing and dismantling several times.
Dealers wanted about CDN$ 80 and the cheapest LS108 on the internet is about $25 US which is a lot more by the time you get it in Canada!
I traced the AC Delco part (LS108) back to the Delphi part numbers and you can get all these individually from Mouser.com, even though Delphi won't sell them to public (naturally, because they have a deal with GM)

[SIZE=14pt]The main lamp socket housing that holds the terminals and bayonets into the reverse lamp:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt](W3 Axial Wedge Base) [/SIZE]Delphi# 15435155 Mouser# 829-15435155 CDN$ 1.41

Rear cap (holds terminals and seals in): Delphi# 15305473 Mouser# 829-15305473-B CDN$ 0.41

The large ground crimp terminal: Delphi# 12092030-L Mouser# 829-12092030-L CDN$ 0.36

Positive crimp terminal: Delphi# 12092058-L Mouser# 829-12092058-L CDN$ 0.26

Oh, and the rubber positive-wire seal is CDN$ 0.126 (Mouser# 829-15324985 for the purple colour)

The only drawback is shipping , which was about CDN$ 20, but I bought two sets of socket parts plus extra terminals and it was still cheaper than the whole sockets.
Usually it's just the terminals that corrode so I have a few spare terminals now.

Without the special crimp tool you have to manually bend the crimp teeth down then solder the wires to ensure a good job but it's quite easy for anyone who can solder. Copy the original terminals to see how the rear bands of the terminals should be curved around with fine pliers, to allow the rubber seal to push on them. (the rear bands are normally used to clamp the insulation whe a proper crimp tool is used).
 

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