NEED HELP Unable to program module

10Burb2500

Registered Member
Original poster
Sep 9, 2022
13
Reading PA
Well unfortunately pass-through wouldn't work for me and actually caused more problems.

Support over there gave me access to the old SPS for 24 hours. With my Windows 11 surface tablet, I was able to get to point of actually programming, but then it failed at 25% (memory seat module) and now my seat doesn't work anymore. Ha.

I thought it might be due to my wifi/windows 11 setup, so I drug out an old tower running Windows 10, and hardwired the internet connection. Spent the next several hours just getting to the programming stage, and when I did, same error.

Called support about the codes, they weren't really helpful (this is an old system, you should get a newer device, etc). But then suggested that perhaps the seat module itself was the problem. So we got off the phone and I decided to try another module to update.

So anyway now my liftgate doesn't open. Yay.

Sucks that I don't know if there's an underlying canbus issue on my truck, is it my clone tech2 that's causing the issue, is it my other hardware... no idea.
 

m.mcmillen

Gold Donor
Apr 29, 2016
547
Wisconsin
Well unfortunately pass-through wouldn't work for me and actually caused more problems.

Support over there gave me access to the old SPS for 24 hours. With my Windows 11 surface tablet, I was able to get to point of actually programming, but then it failed at 25% (memory seat module) and now my seat doesn't work anymore. Ha.

I thought it might be due to my wifi/windows 11 setup, so I drug out an old tower running Windows 10, and hardwired the internet connection. Spent the next several hours just getting to the programming stage, and when I did, same error.

Called support about the codes, they weren't really helpful (this is an old system, you should get a newer device, etc). But then suggested that perhaps the seat module itself was the problem. So we got off the phone and I decided to try another module to update.

So anyway now my liftgate doesn't open. Yay.

Sucks that I don't know if there's an underlying canbus issue on my truck, is it my clone tech2 that's causing the issue, is it my other hardware... no idea.
Some have had issues programming on some older vehicles. Not sure what you're working on (I might have missed it somewhere) but if you find the splice pack where the modules all connect up through the DLC you can unplug all of the other modules and just leave the one that you want to program plugged in and it might work.
 
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10Burb2500

Registered Member
Original poster
Sep 9, 2022
13
Reading PA
Sorry. Working on a 2010 Suburban 2500. There are a couple splice packs, I've been over the truck a few times for other issues. The support guy from acdelco also made a comment about trying to isolate the module(s) that I'm trying to program, but he wasn't sure on the specifics about how to do it.

Since removing modules effectively opens the canbus I'm not sure what it would do. Can't get worse (famous last words).

But when I'm ready to try I'll need to call back so they can get me another 24 hour shot at the old SPS system.
 

mrrsm

Lifetime VIP Donor
Oct 22, 2015
6,275
Tampa Bay Area
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10Burb2500

Registered Member
Original poster
Sep 9, 2022
13
Reading PA
I've paid for the alldatadiy subscription, I've been using that for troubleshooting and finding wiring diagrams, pin outputs, module locations, etc. It's been pretty useful although not always easy to navigate. I'm honestly not sure how good it is compared to an actual shop manual, however.

I did actually run a network cable from my router out to my garage, all hardwired to a tower after the laptop first failed - I theorized that that was my issue. No dice.

The bench harness is a very interesting idea. I'll have to research that. But to be honest, I've spent so much time and energy on this thing over the past several months, I'm almost ready to just hand it to a dealer.

Short(ish) version:
1. No crank/no start condition randomly with prndl not displaying, gauges down. Service 4wd, trailer brake, etc type errors flashing. Would not start unless you disconnected/reconnected battery cable. Low voltage often detected at same time. Replaced battery, main ground cable, cleaned grounds.
(Alldata has multiple TSBs indicating this is a result of a CANBUS failure, I have discovered since)

2. One day it happened while driving - reduced power message.

3. Replaced BCM - total shot in the dark attempt. Pre-programmed module. Worked for a little while, then same no start issue, low-ish voltage (12.2/12.3) even though I was driving it more often, almost daily.

4. Replaced battery again, people kept saying it was possibly bad. Not finding any parasitic drain using both in-line multimeter on ground and trying voltage drop test across fuses.

5. Subscribed to alldata, found TSBs about checking for damaged wiring in multiple locations, backed out transmission connector pins, crusty connectors. Followed all recommendations, found no clear smoking gun. Only one I haven't visually inspected is the terminating resistor thats above my fuel tank, cause I don't feel like going through that yet. Plus testing resistance on the data lines shows 60ohms - in spec.

6. Happened again. Online people (different forum) theorized bad alternator. Replaced it. Have not driven the truck much since.

7. Around same time bought chinese Tech2 finally to try and help. Lots of U-codes. Randomly unable to communicate with different modules. One in particular kept popping up after clearing. Memory seat module short to ground. Followed alldata troubleshooting for wiring issues. Replaced with ebay used part. Did work but I decided to try and update the calibrations with my Tech2 just to head off any potential problems (was off a different year silverado). And now it doesn't work because the programming half completed... along with my liftgate.

So now I haven't driven it to see if the problem is still happening. It's not a reliable problem easy to duplicate. I have to sometimes let it sit for days or even a couple weeks before it happens. So was the seat module a problem? Do I have another CANBUS issue? Is that why I can't program or is it due to my chinese Tech2? (chicken or egg?) I'm just tired. Some days I'm ready to roll it into a quarry.
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
23,038
Ottawa, ON
Moved these posts to its own thread as this was getting off-topic of the other thread and to possibly generate more responses.

Pull the comb out of the main CANBUS splice pack and use jumper wires to connect only the main ones at first: the PCM, TCM, BCM and the OBD connector and see if you can communicate with them. Then add one module at a time and repeat until you get to one that kills the CANBUS. The wire colours and schematics will tell you what colour wires are for which modules and the OBD connector.
 
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10Burb2500

Registered Member
Original poster
Sep 9, 2022
13
Reading PA
Yeah, sorry about that. Sort of went off on a tangent.

Part of the problem is that right now I can talk to all modules on the bus (well, except for the recently broken ones from programming errors). When the system "freaks out" I cannot read any modules until I disconnect/reconnect the battery. Then most/all the U codes are past, not present, and I am able to again connect to all of them. So it happens when I'm not actively looking.

Here's one example of the giant list of codes I get after resetting the system after one of the fail-to-start. The first two images are before disconnecting the battery.


Once I clear all codes, they seem to stay gone still the next freakout.
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
23,038
Ottawa, ON
That B3920 is very specific.


It's possible when it shorts out it kills the CANBUS. Try leaving that module unplugged and see what happens. Check all the wiring related to it.

The HVAC B0423 is kinda weird. Never saw that one before neither. It could be unrelated but worth investigating. Maybe try unplugging the passenger side temp actuator. It may just need a new actuator.

C1112 is another worth investigating as it indicates a circuit malfunction. May also be unrelated but worth a check. Again, try disconnecting it and see what happens.

The battery voltage displayed, was this with the engine running? You need a reading with the engine running. Be sure to put the battery on a slow charger to bring it back up. It might just be low from either a short, trying to start it all the time or a charging issue. Check actual battery voltage with a meter at the battery when running to ensure the alternator is supplying current.
 

mrrsm

Lifetime VIP Donor
Oct 22, 2015
6,275
Tampa Bay Area
Whenever inexplicable Electrical and Module or Code issues arise… consider THIS as a possible Cause and Origin:

https://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/are-rodents-chewing-on-your-gm-vehicles-wiring.22650/

If you do go “looking for trouble under the hood...” and find any Rodent Infestations… be aware of THIS information and always protect yourself and others by using an N-95 Mask and wearing 11-mil Nitrile Gloves whenever handling or cleaning out Mice Nesting Materials, desiccated Feces and dried Deer Mouse Urine as these diseases can readily infect Human Beings ...with a nearly 40% Mortality Level.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19837289/

"An Ounce of Prevention...Is Worth a Pound CURE..."

 
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10Burb2500

Registered Member
Original poster
Sep 9, 2022
13
Reading PA
That B3920 is very specific.


It's possible when it shorts out it kills the CANBUS. Try leaving that module unplugged and see what happens. Check all the wiring related to it.

The HVAC B0423 is kinda weird. Never saw that one before neither. It could be unrelated but worth investigating. Maybe try unplugging the passenger side temp actuator. It may just need a new actuator.

C1112 is another worth investigating as it indicates a circuit malfunction. May also be unrelated but worth a check. Again, try disconnecting it and see what happens.

The battery voltage displayed, was this with the engine running? You need a reading with the engine running. Be sure to put the battery on a slow charger to bring it back up. It might just be low from either a short, trying to start it all the time or a charging issue. Check actual battery voltage with a meter at the battery when running to ensure the alternator is supplying current.

B3920 is what led to me replacing the module in the first place. It would keep coming back after clearing codes - the others only trigger when the system fails.
Alldata walks through a procedure to check specific terminals to ground and they did not - so I got the new(used) one.
B3920 01 or B3920 02
1. Ignition OFF, disconnect the X1 harness connector at the MSM.
2. Ignition ON, verify that a test lamp does not illuminate between the control circuits listed below and ground:

* Front vertical motor terminal 12
* Front vertical motor terminal 13
* Rear vertical motor terminal 15
* Rear vertical motor terminal 16
* Seat horizontal motor terminal 9
* Seat horizontal motor terminal 10

♦ If the test lamp illuminates, test the control circuit for a short to voltage.

3. Test for infinite resistance between the control circuits listed below and ground:

* Front vertical motor terminal 12
* Front vertical motor terminal 13
* Rear vertical motor terminal 15
* Rear vertical motor terminal 16
* Seat horizontal motor terminal 9
* Seat horizontal motor terminal 10

♦ If not the specified value, test the control circuit for a short to ground.

4. Ignition OFF, disconnect the X4 harness connector at the MSM.
5. Ignition ON, verify that a test lamp does not illuminate between the control circuits listed below and ground:

* Lumbar horizontal motor terminal 12
* Lumbar horizontal motor terminal 13
* Seat recline motor terminal 15
* Seat recline motor terminal 16
* Adjustable pedal actuator terminal 9
* Adjustable pedal actuator terminal 10

♦ If the test lamp illuminates, test the control circuit for a short to voltage.

6. Test for infinite resistance between the control circuits listed below and ground:

* Lumbar horizontal motor terminal 12
* Lumbar horizontal motor terminal 13
* Seat recline motor terminal 15
* Seat recline motor terminal 16
* Adjustable pedal actuator terminal 9
* Adjustable pedal actuator terminal 10

♦ If not the specified value, test the control circuit for a short to ground.

7. If all circuits test normal, replace the MSM.

The trailer brake module popped because *I believe* I had the switch disconnected at the time since the lower panel under the steering wheel was removed to check the wiring around the parking brake per This tsb.

The battery voltage was with the engine off. As I mentioned, it seemed to correlate that the voltage would be low when the condition occured, which led to 2 batteries being replaced and finally the alternator. These images were prior to the alternator and second battery.

I currently have a theory that something is making the BCM 'wake' randomly when the truck is sitting and causing an intermittent battery draw. But when I posted this in another forum the general feedback was that either A) the first battery was faulty; or B) the alternator was not charging it properly (even though it did put out 14v+ when running). So I replaced the battery under warranty and a new alternator was cheap enough to try. It also puts out 14v+ when running.

Actually - I did get some other HVAC codes at a different time... B3782 Symptom 04 and B0413 Symptom 04. But I did have half the dash torn apart at one point checking the grounds at either end of the dash, and I pulled the VCIM to check the wiring on it.... so it may have been because of me. After running a HVAC recalibration using my Tech2 clone and clearing those codes they have not returned.
 

10Burb2500

Registered Member
Original poster
Sep 9, 2022
13
Reading PA
Whenever inexplicable Electrical and Module or Code issues arise… consider THIS as a possible Cause and Origin:

https://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/are-rodents-chewing-on-your-gm-vehicles-wiring.22650/

If you do go “looking for trouble under the hood...” and find any Rodent Infestations… be aware of THIS information and always protect yourself and others by using an N-95 Mask and wearing 11-mil Nitrile Gloves whenever handling or cleaning out Mice Nesting Materials, desiccated Feces and dried Deer Mouse Urine as these diseases can readily infect Human Beings ...with a nearly 40% Mortality Level.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19837289/

Thankfully there has been no evidence of that.
 
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mrrsm

Lifetime VIP Donor
Oct 22, 2015
6,275
Tampa Bay Area
Visit @Realism's Epic "Ground Locations" Thread here...You are looking for the "B" Pillar Ground and its good contact relation to the Rear Fuse Box and BCM:


And... investigate Tom's (@TJBaker57 ) suggestion to:

"Pull the Under Seat Rear Fuse Box Cover, Remove the Gold-N-Green Flex Cable from the BCM. Then Spray Out those Dirty Tine Connections along all of the Gold Contacts with some CRC Electric Spray Solvent... to eliminate any dirt, debris (or "Spilled Coca Cola") Contamination...". :>)

45145449694_6aa90e05da_c.jpg
 
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10Burb2500

Registered Member
Original poster
Sep 9, 2022
13
Reading PA
Grounds are the first thing I started chasing. Off the top of my head:
1. Replaced main ground from battery to engine block.
2. Wire-brushed grounds at bottom of radiator support (pass side); on frame under drivers seat; at rear of frame under driver's side taillight.
3. Inspected and found clean and shiny grounds at each end of dash up at the windshield, and also at the B-pillar.
4. Added a new heavy ground cable (Dorman, from parts store) from engine block to body in addition to the factory braided cable.

I'm not familiar with that other suggestion... I have the underhood fuse box and another at the end of the driver's dash - both which I've removed, inspected, lightly coated terminals with dielectric grease as a precaution and re-seated. Not sure if that 'rear seat fuse box' exists on a suburban? Haven't seen it mentioned or shown in any wiring diagrams.
 

mrrsm

Lifetime VIP Donor
Oct 22, 2015
6,275
Tampa Bay Area
aaaHA... (Caught from Ambush...) You are correct... For just a moment there... I was lost in GMT360-Land...
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
23,038
Ottawa, ON
So have you tried just disconnecting the seat module? With the module disconnected, you can also apply power to the motors to adjust them so you can at least sit properly.
 

10Burb2500

Registered Member
Original poster
Sep 9, 2022
13
Reading PA
Well I bit the bullet and ordered a clone MDI2 to see if I have any better luck. I found a series of videos from a youtuber "kevin9c1" who was trying to program an 08 Cadillac and having the same exact problem with his clone Tech2. He eventually gave up, got an MDI and was able to program successfully.

I messaged him about it and he replied that he was told by another guy that it's a fairly common issue with clone Tech2's - don't know if GM changed something on their end or what.

Anyway we'll see. Figured for the cost of ~2 hours of dealer labor I'll give it one more shot.

If it still doesn't work (hopefully I haven't bricked the seat module yet from all the attempts) then I suppose it's time for the professionals.
 

Mooseman

Master Blaster
Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
23,038
Ottawa, ON
If you are trying to use ACDelco's online TDS, yeah, they totally killed off all Tech 2's, even the real ones, as they don't work with their new system.

However, Tis2000, which is usually included with the clone Tech 2, should still work if setup correctly. Your MDI will future proof you for anything in the foreseeable future.
 

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