Transmission Upgrades

Traz

Original poster
Jan 10, 2018
134
Michigan
For the build I'm looking to strengthen some key points. my first priority being the transmission. ive read a few threads, but still. What can be done to bulk up the 4l60 to handle somewhere around 450-500hp? or would it be easier/cheaper to install a different transmission?
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
I remember reading on this forum that a swap could be done over to the 6L60. I would imagine that is one to think about, but whats all involved on the swap, im not sure.

I am considering doing the 6L60 swap myself when I do my 5.3 to 6.0 or 6.2 swap. Hmm.. I wonder if a LT4 swap could be done.... :woohoo: Now that would be cool!
 

Traz

Original poster
Jan 10, 2018
134
Michigan
Ive been told there are ways to bulk up the 4l60e but at this stage its whatever will handle the power/be reliable and be cheaper
 

Reprise

Lifetime VIP Donor
Supporting Donor
Member
Jul 22, 2015
2,724
Assuming you're sticking with a 4L60e...

In order of importance (IMO):

1) - An auxiliary trans cooler (you can decide whether to put it in series with the stocker, or bypass entirely. I have a Derale stacked plate (most efficient, and you can use a smaller size as a result). Mine is a 10-row / 10,000 BTU in bypass mode, and it's fine except for the most stressful times (running steep grades in +90F).

I will probably put in a bigger cooler in the Sierra that will be taking over tow duty from the Voy (it has a 4L80e, which could also be an option for you, if you have the V8; I don't think there's an adapter for LL8 <> 4L80). (On edit: apparently, the 60 and the 80 have the same bolt pattern for the bellhousing, so you'd only need to worry about the driveshaft(s); the 80 is longer, so you'd need to shorten the rear one for sure. For the front, I don't know how they'd match up)

Tru-Cool also makes good coolers (and they have a neat little bypass valve you can get that keeps the fluid from running through the cooler until it hits 130F (?) or so.) Good for winter, if you worry about that sort of thing.

2) - Kit that we all reference here (check Sparky's posts in particular) that has the 'orange box' TransGo kit, Sonnax pinless accumulators, hardened separator plate, new gaskets. Some kits contain the ATSC book. Some have the Vette servo (which I'd recommend, if you're wanting to go fast). The guy is on eBay, but now has his own website.

Putting this kit in goes a long way toward taking care of preventing TCC / PWM issues, as well as broken plastic accumulators, checkballs punching through the stock plate, etc. And you can put this kit in with the trans in the car (yourself, if you're mechanically inclined - I did mine.)

Get some trans assembly lube (medium tack is fine), or some Vaseline to hold checkballs in place, etc.

Zinc-coated pan bolts and aluminum case housings don't mix. If you manage to get all the bolts out intact, get some stainless to replace them. When removing them, if you notice one getting 'tighter' as you are removing it - STOP. Put some PB Blaster on the threads, and re-seat it. Then try again a little later. If you break off the one in the back corner on the passenger side, it will be almost impossible to extract it in-car. Ask me how I know.

If you want 'extra insurance' against punching through the separator plate (or especially if you're keeping the stock plate,) you can get Torlon checkballs to replace the steel ones. You can find these pretty cheap on eBay (in a set of 8, IIRC (there's one you can't get to unless you do a full rebuild, but the really important one is the 1-2 checkball - that's the one that tends to punch through).

'easy stuff' above
------------
'harder (& more expensive) stuff' below

The rest of this requires the trans to be dropped...you decide if / how far you want to go. With the weak points of the 4L60 addressed, it can supposedly handle 700hp, so 500 shouldn't be too much trouble. And unless you've rebuilt one in the past, or have a spare core to work on, you probably want to find a builder for the rest of this - you can discuss these things with them, as well.

At a minimum, I'd put in a hardened sunshell (Beast, Sonnax, etc.) This is a weak point that needs to be addressed for longevity, never mind 'performance'. Since it goes in the bottom of the case, you have the opportunity to go farther...such as...

I'd also (at a minimum) put in an improved 2-4 band. I use a Raybestos Hi-energy. The kevlar-coated bands *sound* great, but a lot of F-body guys have gone through them quickly and eventually steer away from them.

- h/d clutches / steels (especially the 3-4 pack, which is the weak sister here - it's susceptible to high temps (see below)). Raybestos Hi-energy or Alto 'red' are good here.

- 4L65e parts: hardened input shaft, 5 pinion f/r planetaries
Note that if you get the input shaft, which is 300mm, you have to get a compatible converter. The stock shaft / converter is 298mm (yeah, I know...2mm...but it makes a difference)

With these and the sunshell, you have a 4L65e, if that's important to you.

I don't have the 5-pin planetaries (mine is built for towing, not racing, btw). I decided the cost wasn't worth the benefit, for what I needed.

If you're getting a new converter, you'll probably want to modify the stall speed. Stock is 2800. Mine is 3200 (mild), and I think it allows too much heat buildup on steeper grades (I downshift from 3-2 a bit more than I'd like.) So this is something I might do different next time out. Talk with your builder about what you want to do.

- new pump (10 vane is fine; the 13 vane is supposed to be the real 'H/D', but I think the 10 is fine.

You'll need 12qts (minimum) of a good fluid. Personally, I like the Dexron-specific fluids, and run the Valvoline 'full synthetic' (blue bottle, $8-ish a qt retail (which I can only find around here at O'Really's), and Summit is the best price I know of on a case of 12, even figuring in shipping). Amsoil makes some great fluid (I prefer to use something I can get locally, but that's me.)

Dex 6 is pretty much synthetic anyway, and good to 275F (but no more). Do what you can to keep temps under 225F (and that means a temp gauge with that cooler you put in earlier, either an aftermarket mechanical one, or via an OBD-II compliant app (like Torque, which is what I use...and then only when I'm towing...when I'm not, I never see more than 165F, even in traffic with the A/C on full-tilt - so I don't worry about it, otherwise). If you're putting in the bung for the mechanical gauge, make sure you've also got a bung for a drain plug, if it didn't have one.

Deep / aluminum pan? That's up to you. If you have the V8, you'll have a bear of a time with a deeper pan than stock, b/c of the exhaust crossmember, and the aluminum / 'extra cooling' pans are a bit spendy, in my book. I run a stock pan, and am fine with it (except for the gorilla at GM OKC assembly who tightened all the drain plugs).

With that, you should have a good, reliable 4L60 that you can put some power in front of.

Will it be 'full race' ? Something you can take to the strip and run pass after pass, all day long? Probably not.

Will it last the rest of the truck's life, for regular / aggressive street use & towing? I'd be really surprised if it didn't.

Keep the temps cool, the fluid changed every 20K or so, especially if you're running it hard, and you'll be golden.
 
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Traz

Original poster
Jan 10, 2018
134
Michigan
Thanks a lot for all the great info. Definitely isn't going to be running a drag strip. Just a turbo and chasing around my friends on the weekends and to and from work. Maybe shock some people on the street. I dont know if I'll go to crazy. But who knows, I'm debating pulling the engine to do some custom stuff so maybe I'll tear it down and build it up while I have it out. I appreciate it!
 

oldog

Member
Oct 10, 2017
35
Richmond, VA
Assuming you're sticking with a 4L60e...

In order of importance (IMO):

1) - An auxiliary trans cooler (you can decide whether to put it in series with the stocker, or bypass entirely. I have a Derale stacked plate (most efficient, and you can use a smaller size as a result). Mine is a 10-row / 10,000 BTU in bypass mode, and it's fine except for the most stressful times (running steep grades in +90F).

I will probably put in a bigger cooler in the Sierra that will be taking over tow duty from the Voy (it has a 4L80e, which could also be an option for you, if you have the V8; I don't think there's an adapter for LL8 <> 4L80).

Tru-Cool also makes good coolers (and they have a neat little bypass valve you can get that keeps the fluid from running through the cooler until it hits 130F (?) or so.) Good for winter, if you worry about that sort of thing.

2) - Kit that we all reference here (check Sparky's posts in particular) that has the 'orange box' TransGo kit, Sonnax pinless accumulators, hardened separator plate, new gaskets. Some kits contain the ATSC book. Some have the Vette servo (which I'd recommend, if you're wanting to go fast). The guy is on eBay, but now has his own website.

Putting this kit in goes a long way toward taking care of preventing TCC / PWM issues, as well as broken plastic accumulators, checkballs punching through the stock plate, etc. And you can put this kit in with the trans in the car (yourself, if you're mechanically inclined - I did mine.)

Get some trans assembly lube (medium tack is fine), or some Vaseline to hold checkballs in place, etc.

Zinc-coated pan bolts and aluminum case housings don't mix. If you manage to get all the bolts out intact, get some stainless to replace them. When removing them, if you notice one getting 'tighter' as you are removing it - STOP. Put some PB Blaster on the threads, and re-seat it. Then try again a little later. If you break off the one in the back corner on the passenger side, it will be almost impossible to extract it in-car. Ask me how I know.

If you want 'extra insurance' against punching through the separator plate (or especially if you're keeping the stock plate,) you can get Torlon checkballs to replace the steel ones. You can find these pretty cheap on eBay (in a set of 8, IIRC (there's one you can't get to unless you do a full rebuild, but the really important one is the 1-2 checkball - that's the one that tends to punch through).

'easy stuff' above
------------
'harder (& more expensive) stuff' below

The rest of this requires the trans to be dropped...you decide if / how far you want to go. With the weak points of the 4L60 addressed, it can supposedly handle 700hp, so 500 shouldn't be too much trouble. And unless you've rebuilt one in the past, or have a spare core to work on, you probably want to find a builder for the rest of this - you can discuss these things with them, as well.

At a minimum, I'd put in a hardened sunshell (Beast, Sonnax, etc.) This is a weak point that needs to be addressed for longevity, never mind 'performance'. Since it goes in the bottom of the case, you have the opportunity to go farther...such as...

I'd also (at a minimum) put in an improved 2-4 band. I use a Raybestos Hi-energy. The kevlar-coated bands *sound* great, but a lot of F-body guys have gone through them quickly and eventually steer away from them.

- h/d clutches / steels (especially the 3-4 pack, which is the weak sister here - it's susceptible to high temps (see below)). Raybestos Hi-energy or Alto 'red' are good here.

- 4L65e parts: hardened input shaft, 5 pinion f/r planetaries
Note that if you get the input shaft, which is 300mm, you have to get a compatible converter. The stock shaft / converter is 298mm (yeah, I know...2mm...but it makes a difference)

With these and the sunshell, you have a 4L65e, if that's important to you.

I don't have the 5-pin planetaries (mine is built for towing, not racing, btw). I decided the cost wasn't worth the benefit, for what I needed.

If you're getting a new converter, you'll probably want to modify the stall speed. Stock is 2800. Mine is 3200 (mild), and I think it allows too much heat buildup on steeper grades (I downshift from 3-2 a bit more than I'd like.) So this is something I might do different next time out. Talk with your builder about what you want to do.

- new pump (10 vane is fine; the 13 vane is supposed to be the real 'H/D', but I think the 10 is fine.

You'll need 12qts (minimum) of a good fluid. Personally, I like the Dexron-specific fluids, and run the Valvoline 'full synthetic' (blue bottle, $8-ish a qt retail (which I can only find around here at O'Really's), and Summit is the best price I know of on a case of 12, even figuring in shipping). Amsoil makes some great fluid (I prefer to use something I can get locally, but that's me.)

Dex 6 is pretty much synthetic anyway, and good to 275F (but no more). Do what you can to keep temps under 225F (and that means a temp gauge with that cooler you put in earlier, either an aftermarket mechanical one, or via an OBD-II compliant app (like Torque, which is what I use...and then only when I'm towing...when I'm not, I never see more than 165F, even in traffic with the A/C on full-tilt - so I don't worry about it, otherwise). If you're putting in the bung for the mechanical gauge, make sure you've also got a bung for a drain plug, if it didn't have one.

Deep / aluminum pan? That's up to you. If you have the V8, you'll have a bear of a time with a deeper pan than stock, b/c of the exhaust crossmember, and the aluminum / 'extra cooling' pans are a bit spendy, in my book. I run a stock pan, and am fine with it (except for the gorilla at GM OKC assembly who tightened all the drain plugs).

With that, you should have a good, reliable 4L60 that you can put some power in front of.

Will it be 'full race' ? Something you can take to the strip and run pass after pass, all day long? Probably not.

Will it last the rest of the truck's life, for regular / aggressive street use & towing? I'd be really surprised if it didn't.

Keep the temps cool, the fluid changed every 20K or so, especially if you're running it hard, and you'll be golden.
What do you think about the Four Seasons brand of trans cooler? They seem widely available and cost competitive with Tru Cool.
 
D

Deleted member 20902

We build our own transmissions here, and have many tried and true parts that we find necessary to hold up. Specifically I drag race my truck with a 4L60E, and refresh it usually 2 times a year.

A lot of what makes the transmission last is not parts, but end play, clutch clearances, etc.

You have to make sure that the input shaft is not leaking past the input drum. It is pressed in a requires retaining compound to seal it properly. This must be pressure tested.

Next BIG thing it the check ball in the input drum, replace it.

The other BIG thing is the 3-4 check-ball capsule in the case, replace it.

It's very important that you replace the molded pistons inside the input drum. There's also a green oring inside the drum that needs to be replaced in this area. don't use brake clean on this.

3-4 clutches are the most critical thing in the transmission, everything I've mentioned so far is what all holds the pressure on those clutches. There are several great clutch packs but my favorite is Alto HD High energy graphite set. It comes with 9 frictions, steels, top plate, and even snap ring. **Clearance should be set as close to 20 thousandths as possible.** Leave the return spring packs in for this clutch set. If you run red eagles leave the spring packs out.

As far as your other clutches, I've never seen any brand clutches burn up unless something else happened, and reputable clutches are fine for for your forward, low reverse, reverse, and over run clutches. I generally use raybestos or exedy.

Your band should be 2-5/8 (wide) Raybestos Super pro series, this is the best we have found and the only one we use for 4x4 or performance transmissions. Usually you need a new reverse drum if you go with the wide band, but if yours does not show wear send it.

It has not been proven that 5 pinion planets hold more power, they do however ad rotational weight that we have found to be unnecessary, 4 pinion planets are sufficient.

Transgo treated separator plate, stock steel balls are fine. There are holes that need to be drilled out for 4th gear hold, 1-2 shift etc. There should be instructions with the plate. pretty much .093 and .101 drill bits are all you need.

upgrade forward piston, and 1-2 accumulator to aluminum, pinless is fine but a waste of money because the aluminum pistons also last. Either way get rid of the ABS pistons.

Disable 3-4 accumulator. usually we remove the spring, and install 2 pistons. You can also stake a steel ball in the hole and leave piston/spring out.

Disable PWM solenoid for TCC, this is easily achieved by grinding one edge of the nose of the solenoid flat, this allows the fluid to pass by, and is effective/free.

At minimum you need the "corvette servo" but on performance builds we install super hold 2/4 servo. You can save some money and run the corvette 2nd servo, and use super hold 4th servo and cover.

Contrary to popular belief leave the boost valve stock.

When rebuilding the pump, get the FULL kit. 13 vein is stock and it what you should use. it just needs to be all new and fresh.

Sun Shell is for sure a weak point, the splines for the reaction gear usually strip or break off entirely. If you want to spring for the hardened shell that's great. what we do is TIG WELD the reaction gear to a stock sun gear/shell and it holds up great for moderate builds, for performance builds I TIG WELD the reaction gear and hardened shell together. I also prefer the bushing style drum in ALL of my builds. I've never heard of anyone else welding these together, I first had the idea 4 years ago and tried it in my transmission, it has done great and been reinstalled many times now.

Don't forget the o-ring on the input shaft for the converter! If you forget it you'll never get TCC.

This is only a fraction of what goes into rebuilding a good transmission, I just wanted to tell you some of the key factors that may be useful to you. If you're anywhere around Atlanta I would be happy to build it for you. You will need SEVERAL special tools to rebuild it, and this is not something the average person should attempt. That is entirely up to you and what you are comfortable with doing.
 

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Reprise

Lifetime VIP Donor
Supporting Donor
Member
Jul 22, 2015
2,724
@RevHardGarage - that is some great info, and thanks for posting. Always nice to get input from a professional.

You may want to speak to the mods re: changing to a Vendor membership, if you're going to solicit business (and I hope you do get some - there's a lot of 4L60s here that will need some love!)


@oldog - the Four Seasons looks to be a 'sister' brand to Hayden (both owned by SMP). Looks like they offer tube/fin, and tube/plate coolers. I'd get the tube/plate, if I were choosing between the two. What I didn't see on their product catalog was a BTU rating for their coolers; that's a piece of info I'd like to have when choosing.
 
Last edited:

Traz

Original poster
Jan 10, 2018
134
Michigan
@RevHardGarage I live in southern Michigan about an hour from Detroit. I have a lot of experience elsewhere but next to none on transmissions aside from removal/Install. I can spend some time researching, ive heard the transgo kits are easy enough to install, (With instructions and video) as far as everything else I cant say I would be comfortable doing it.
 
D

Deleted member 20902

@RevHardGarage - that is some great info, and thanks for posting. Always nice to get input from a professional.

You may want to speak to the mods re: changing to a Vendor membership, if you're going to solicit business (and I hope you do get some - there's a lot of 4L60s here that will need some love!)


@oldog - the Four Seasons looks to be a 'sister' brand to Hayden (both owned by SMP). Looks like they offer tube/fin, and tube/plate coolers. I'd get the tube/plate, if I were choosing between the two. What I didn't see on their product catalog was a BTU rating for their coolers; that's a piece of info I'd like to have when choosing.

I don't mind helping people out, and I'm not really here to be a vendor. But if someone needs help in the Atlanta area I'll be happy to help. Always trying to put together meets, have several TBSS guys in the area as well. If I need to have a vendor account let me know and I'll be happy to comply. Hopefully someone can find my information and others helpful. That's what it's all abut :smile:
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
If I need to have a vendor account let me know and I'll be happy to comply.

We no such accounts or special memberships for businesses or vendors. Even RockAuto is just a regular member. The site is entirely run on VIP memberships, donations and the little bit from ads.

We do have a vendor's section for companies peddling their wares, free of cost.
 

Traz

Original poster
Jan 10, 2018
134
Michigan
Hey guys I just got a quote back and wanted to see what everyones thoughts are.


Powertrain Pros in Bay city Michigan
Reman 4l60e
comes with 5 year unlimited mile warranty
reman TC
new shift solenoids, new seals and gaskets, all factory updates, Kevlar bands, high energy clutches, hardened sun shell.
Cost: 995+ 40 shipping to residential.
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
What about the Torque Converter?
 

TollKeeper

Supporting Donor
Member
Dec 3, 2011
8,045
Brighton, CO
Sorry, missed that line. For that price, its not a bad deal. I spent 2900 at the dealer, and that only came with a 3/36k mile warranty.

I wonder if they have the ability to do the internal upgrades to a 65..
 

Traz

Original poster
Jan 10, 2018
134
Michigan
I haven't asked. just got the quote for the trans. they are in Bay City Michigan, Rialto California, Talahassee and Jacksonville Florida
 

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