Transmission Line leak at the wheel well head clamp... temporary fix?

budwich

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Jun 16, 2013
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kanata
So... of course, nice cold weather brings out the "age". Like others (years and vehicles), my 2008 decided to have a leak on the tranny line to the cooler (I think) at the body clamp on the driver side wheel well head. I am not likely going to replace the lines at this point... cold and otherwise... spring time will come eventually. :smile:
Anyways, I was thinking that a temporary rubber hose / double clamp will work on the existing line (cut for the hose install) Alternative would be some form of compression fit / tubing / compression fitting "thing". A "barb" to hose worked on the cooler install (barb-compression fitting union). Suggestions or otherwise?
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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Compression fittings might not work if there is rust on the lines. I'd just use rubber hose and 2x clamps and call it a day.
 

budwich

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You are probably right now that I have the rubber / steel clamp removed. The area looks pretty ugly
all the way back to where the line converts to a factory compression / hose connection. :-(
I hope I can get my "mini-pipe" cutter in the area to allow for a "shaving free cut".
 
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Reprise

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So... of course, nice cold weather brings out the "age".

Funny you'd mention this... I figured out today that the wet patches I've been seeing on the ground after I pull the Envoy out of the driveway are most likely... antifreeze. Too cold for A/C condensation, and it kinda smelled like Dexcool, IMO. It was also slightly 'greasy' feeling, as coolant can feel.

If I'm lucky, it'll be a loose hose, or the reservoir cracked. But I'm guessing it's a tolerance / gasket issue, either with the WP or the T-stat, as it appears to me that it closes up after the engine warms up and the metal expands (and AL expands more than cast iron, as we know). The leak definitely slows / stops after warmup, as I just drove about 400mi this week, and the temp gauge was steady as a rock, then and now.

Thankfully, I finally got the new fuel pump in hand for the Sierra today, so I can move it out of the garage tomorrow, and move the Voy in, to diagnose / fix.

(on edit: - I think I'd try Moose's solution first. Easier / cheaper, and if it lasts till spring... that's all you need. Just keep an eye on your trans fluid level, and top it off either at 1/2qt or near 1qt low, till you get the issue permanently fixed.)
 

budwich

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well, frozen hands and all, I got a hose "fix" in place on one line associated with the leak. Hopefully, it will last til spring. So the hunt for replacement lines will begin in earnest. Something funny on the GM SI for the 2008 4.2. I wasn't quite sure about it as the page was "for the LM4"... don't know what that means and the line shown was on the other side of the engine which seems kind of strange. I couldn't find any other reference at the time as the focus was on the repair. I need to look a bit deeper to understand this as then I need to track down the right replacement lines along with any instructions especially near / at the tranny and possibly along the route which seems rather ugly.

edit: I see from further looking that LM4 refers to the v8 5.3. The GMSI seems to be confused in its navigation as the "path" down was from the "transmission" under the main heading.... there doesn't appear to be a "cooler line section" for the other engine types... :-( I guess I need to wander around the gmsi more to see where right section is.
 
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gmcman

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Dec 12, 2011
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The drivers side would be the power steering lines, not the trans.

Unless that was already covered but didn't see it.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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Ottawa, ON
The low pressure line return can be fixed with hose and clamps but not the high pressure one, not even with compression fittings.
 

christo829

Member
Dec 7, 2011
497
Fairfax, Virginia
When my power steering lines gave out, I was able to use compression fittings to temporarily patch them until I could get replacement pipes. Just make sure you get the high pressure compression fittings for that high pressure line. I *think* mine were rated for 3000 psi, but I'll have to find the part number and verify.
 

budwich

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I am still somewhat confused by the lines. I haven't traced them very well as my body is hating the cold and even more lying on the cold cement. My problem is the color of the fluid. Its tranny color and I am almost certain when I did a flush on the power steering pump about two years ago, the replacement was clear. I am sure the mystery will be resolved shortly... its supposed to warm up here this week for a day or two so I will climb under and oogle what's up.

On a side note, the "patch" seems to be holding for the time being but I will keep an eye on it.
 

christo829

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Dec 7, 2011
497
Fairfax, Virginia
I know what you mean about the cold cement, even here in northern VA... And if I put on enough layers, then I can't move around and reach where I need to reach.

Unless they changed the hose routing at some point (mine's an '04), my transmission lines run up the passenger's side of the engine, and the power steering to cooler lines run over the driver's side wheel well. My fluid was somewhat golden brown in color, and clear. The replacement fluid was a lighter golden color. No red. I suspect the brown was a combination of age and crud that may have gotten in from the failing line. Is it the leaked fluid you're looking at, or fresh flow?
 

Mooseman

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Driver side are for sure power steering and passenger side are tranny lines. They never changed through the years or engines.
 

budwich

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OK... warmer weather is here along with some outdoor brightness. I can see that the lines in question go all the way back to the power steering pump on the other side of the engine... :smile:

Perhaps, I used tranny fluid in the power steering pump during the flush??? Certainly not expecting to see the colored fluid on the ground at the side (and certainly was leaking out of the line). The good news is the patch is holding so it is likely the low pressure side of things.

Sorry for the "bad eyes post" / information. Now to hunt down some power steering lines which does look like any fun to replace. Maybe the title could get changed... :smile:

edit: holy smokes, the pressure line is expensive.... lucky I didn't cut both at the same time. Any comment on whether the many "aftermarkets" listed on rockauto (or otherwise) are OK both in terms of routing / connectibility.
 
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gmcman

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Dec 12, 2011
4,656
Given the tight proximity, I would replace both lines and also the cooler to maintain integrity.
 
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budwich

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Probably the right strategy... although I am one for trying to do repairs and not get things worse if possible. The power steering area especially at the gear box is potentially past my capabilities, both in understanding of the R&R and possibly the tools / access. Even just looking at the lines would appear to be "touch and go" mostly because of the age of things that need to be disturbed. I certainly need to look closer at the whole area and understand what I am up against... in the spring... hopefully. :smile:
 

budwich

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well, my work isn't up to "quality standards"... :smile: The hose came off one side, possibly didn't tighten the clamps enough OR it is the high pressure line (probably). :-( So related to this now is I used rubber fuel line for the "patch". I am wondering how long before the pressure blows the rubber? :-(
So I started looking at "gear to cooler" lines and trying to figure out which type I need on a 2008 4.2. RA has listings for one with clamp, without clamp, "labor saving", etc. I am still hoping for a bit warmer weather... so perhaps this thing will sit for a while as I do some more reading / looking.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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Ottawa, ON
That happened to me on the tranny line when it was -30c one cold morning. I hadn't double clamped it so with the extra thick fluid and pressure, it blew so I wound up doing an impromptu fluid change on the side of the road.

If it would have been a pressure line, it would have blown right away as that's 100's of PSI in that one. Just need to double clamp it.
 

budwich

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OK... I am hoping it is poor workmanship as there was a double clamp but poor light / access resulted in me using more feel for tightening and not wanting to over tight the "fuel line" type clamps. I may have also not inserted the pipe far enough into the hose which might have left possibly only one clamp holding... maybe. The rework seems to be better... I hope.
thanks for giving me a bit better feeling for the new year... :smile:
 
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NJTB

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Aug 27, 2012
612
Flemington, NJ
There's these fittings, I wish I could remember the name of them, I used several years ago on my PS lines. Cut the rusted part of the line out with a pipe cutter, clean the ends with a piece of emory cloth, and slide them on. There'a a specific tightening (seated, then 1/4 turn), and you're good to go. There's no flaring or anything, and are rated beyond the pressure of the steel line.
Maybe someone here remembers the name. The company was in Kenilworth, NJ.
 

budwich

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Jun 16, 2013
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So I have started to do search for "proper lines" but am somewhat confused by the RA descriptions. Attached is the pictures of the two pressure lines (from the gear to the cooler).
One description says: "Aftermarket Labor Saving Design (Removal of cup seal at port is required prior to installation), w/o Bracket" The other says: "OEM Design (w/ Quick Connect Fitting At Rack), w/o Bracket". I know there might be some "translation error" but what is the actual difference that I need to worry about. I haven't pulled the line yet as its damn cold so I don't know what is actually currently installed. What's the "labor saving design"? To me they look basically the same with a quick connect on one end and threaded on the other.
 

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littleblazer

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Jul 6, 2014
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It's been so long now since I did the envoy but iirc I used the one with the end attached... image 2. I removed the seal in the rack with a quarter inch open end like a pry bar and then just installed. It was 4 years ago now.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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Others are calling it an alternate design. From what I remember, it changes from the cup seal to an O-ring. The return line stayed with the cup seal.
 

budwich

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I guess whether the retaining bracket is attached makes little difference as I wouldn't think that end section has any issues with the feeding of the line. Its the other end that problems likely occur... right? It would appear that the one with the "add on bracket" comes with a "cup seal" and two "o-rings" so you can do either method???
 

Mooseman

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I think there was a change in the flare size between the cup and o-ring. No idea what the deal is with the bracket.
 

budwich

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Well, the weather is warmer so now is the time to tackle this problem. So I am still confused at the gear box end. I ordered / got the one with the seperate bracket thinking it was easier to install the bracket once the line is in place but might be "dreaming". Anyway, it comes with two o rings, one for the gear end and one for the pump end. That seems straight forward. The issue is with the yellow cap "thing". How is this used for anything. It is closed end. I am obviously missing some understanding. The "one line RA" comment about the existing seal needs to be removed doesn't help much with the install... :smile:

edit: the light bulb came on. The yellow cap / seal is for the return side IF you were only replacing the pressure side, you would then "refresh" the return during the install of the high side. You remove the high side seal and then just push in the new "quick connect" replacement. Now I understand the previous comments.
 
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budwich

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So... now the question is.... do you need to replace the seal or can it be use as is...ie. sliding in the return line? Further, if you use a pressure line (non-quick connect), can you just slide in that line as opposed to trying to replace seals is such a confined space? Lastly, how is the replacement seal pushed thru the plastic end barrier... do you need to puncture the new seal to allow the tip to break thru?
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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You mean the seal inside the fitting in the tranny or the radiator? It's usually reused unless it actually has a problem. I never replaced it myself. Not even sure you can get it on its own, having to replace the whole fitting.
 

budwich

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Jun 16, 2013
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sorry for the confusion. The title of course, doesn't help .... not tranny but power steering leak / hose replacement. I am referring to the seals at the "steering gear box". The replacement pressure hose is a quick connect so the existing seal would need to be removed... but IF I exchange that pressure hose for one with the "OEM type" seal connection, then it is plausible that the seals at the "gear box" would not be replaced as the new hose would slide back in to the exist seal... or is that too much of a dream.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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Ottawa, ON
That cup type seal can be a bitch to get out. If it wasn't leaking before, I'd leave it. Looking at the two types, if you get an OEM type pressure hose, you should be able to leave the cup seal that's already in there if it wasn't leaking before.
 

budwich

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that's somewhat my thinking... somewhat after the fact (of the order). It will probably cost just as much to return / swap the RA order at this point. I don't believe there was any leaks at the steering gear box prior to this. I guess I will try pull the existing seal on the high side to use the "quick connect" and leave the exist seal for the return in place and cross my fingers that this doesn't go down a proverbial rat hole thereafter.
 

budwich

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so not a fun job so far. Its slow going. I am at the last step for removal of the lines... at the gear box at the steering. Any tricks on trying to remove the small 8mm bolt without snapping it, which would likely be disaster, that holds the lines in. I have sprayed some penetrating oil as best can be shot into the area.

edit: a soldering iron held on to the bolt for a while followed by a frozen socket seemed to help get it loose without any breakage....yeh! Of course, now comes the full line removal and the new install.... does look like fun but hopefully it will go back together without a "hitch or leaks".

edit part II: the good news is the high side seal came out with the line so that eliminates the seal removal.
 
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budwich

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Jun 16, 2013
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So the job is complete (I hope... no leaks so far). Although I thought the hardest part would be the connection at the rack / gear box, the end connections at both the pump and gear box were relatively easy. The main effort was getting at the clamp points along the route especially at the clamp under crankshaft pulley and also the front clamp on the body rail. Routing the new hoses was relatively easy once I removed on upper control arm bolt (at the front of the arm) which then allowed the lines to be moved over the tower.

I used the existing seal for the return line as opposed to pulling / replacing. The high pressure side seal came out with the old line. The new line was a "quick connect " fitting which once properly positioned slid into the gear box. Thanks for the hints / guidance along the way. The job is certainly doable by a moderately tooled DIYer with some extra hands along the way.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
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Did you leave out that rubber isolator that the lines pass through on the shock tower? That's what makes these lines rust. I pulled mine off as soon as I brought the truck home.
 

budwich

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Jun 16, 2013
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no, I put it back on. I figured that the original line last 12 years, I figure its good for 10 which would likely mean the "boneyard" thereafter. Not sure what to make of the rust areas. I think the actual rust appears at the "boundaries" (each side of the rubber). This appears to be visible at all the rubber "bushings" along the hose route. Inside the rubber "domain", the line was "new like". During the exercise, I see that the tranny lines (on the passenger side), especially near the front side of the wheel well are extremely rusted. I hope that not my next "fun job"... touch wood.
 
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