Toyota Plans to Charge You to Use Your Key Fob

59840Surfer

Member
Apr 19, 2020
85
Montana
Steve ... review the John Deere fiasco. I think elements of that is still bouncing around the court.
 

northcreek

Member
Jan 15, 2012
3,310
WNY
Good time to find a rust free "Square Body" ...no chips, no ECUs, no worries, drive it forever...:2thumbsup:
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I can understand services like OnStar, Sirius, Data, phone app access, but to tell you you can't use the heated seats or remote start unless you pay them more money than you've already have, which is no small amount especially nowadays.

They want more money? They can fornicate with the mirror. There will be hacks.
 

littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
That is just dumb. So you get locked out of your RF remote of an option that has been standard for almost 30 years... What?
 

Reprise

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Just go into the headliner and cut their roof antenna wires before they shut you down. .
I wonder if this wouldn't disable / take out a bunch of the telematics, though.
That said, I'm sure someone(s) will figure out a hack for this.

In the meantime, don't buy +'18 MY Toyotas!

(and my own input... if this is true, I'm with the VOP and our other members on this... undisclosed post-purchase subscriptions for non-entertainment features (e.g.; SatRad, etc.)... are utter CRAP. :duh::Banghead::argue::hissyfit::puke:
(I'd use other language, but we do try to keep it somewhat clean, here.)

Potential class action on this from Mr. Lehto or one of his counterparts (he's done other automotive CAs in the past, and represented people on 'lemon law' issues, RV matters, etc.)
 

59840Surfer

Member
Apr 19, 2020
85
Montana
I wonder if this wouldn't disable / take out a bunch of the telematics, though.
That said, I'm sure someone(s) will figure out a hack for this.

In the meantime, don't buy +'18 MY Toyotas!

(and my own input... if this is true, I'm with the VOP and our other members on this... undisclosed post-purchase subscriptions for non-entertainment features (e.g.; SatRad, etc.)... are utter CRAP. :duh::Banghead::argue::hissyfit::puke:
(I'd use other language, but we do try to keep it somewhat clean, here.)

Potential class action on this from Mr. Lehto or one of his counterparts (he's done other automotive CAs in the past, and represented people on 'lemon law' issues, RV matters, etc.)
When John Deere tried it --- there were a lot of hacks from Bulgaria and Russia and JD fired up the lawsuits.
A lot of farms went with Big Red (Case) and just left JD to rot. Good.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
It's not quite the same thing as with JD. There, it's the right to repair, ie: access to the software to be able to do your own repairs. Heck, JD even collects usage data without consent. Car OEMs have been trying to do this for years but have been stopped by legislation in the US.

Toyota are just trying to get into the subscription game to suck more money out of owners' pockets to access stuff that's already there. Heated seats I can see hacks for however the remote start, since it's integrated into the PCM and BCM, will be more difficult. However, because of right to repair laws, they have to give access to the software to access those systems. Giving access to it and ability to modify those systems are two different things that may not be covered by R2R laws. In fact, this has already been done to keep tuners out of OEM's original programming while allowing access to "repair" with locked PCMs.
 
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59840Surfer

Member
Apr 19, 2020
85
Montana
The JD reference was in relation to ultimate ownership of the enveloped product.

While, yes, there is/are serviceability by owners not granted on the JD side, it provides a glimpse into what you actually own as- and after- you make payments on a Toyota vehicle.

It isn't terribly assumptive in the least to say if you buy a container of ice cream that you own it and can do to it as you desire, knowing full well that ultimately it's yours as you walk out of the store.

But in drug laced dreams of corporation think tanks concerned with diminishing returns they now seek to monetize the previously unfettered subsystems in the vehicle/ice cream container.

They now want to not only charge you for a Toyota Sundae, but then rent you the nuts, the whipped cream and the cherry.

You get to keep the plastic spoon.





.
 
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59840Surfer

Member
Apr 19, 2020
85
Montana
Hmmmmm .. I waxed eloquently there --- huh?

I think I'll C/P that on Lehto's YT site .... brb......
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Thinking about my own truck and all the tech it has, I can see this happening. Do you like the heated seats and steering wheel? Pay for it. Want Android Auto/Car Play to work? Pay for it. Like Bluetooth? Pay for it. Want the radio to work? Pay for it. Would you like the engine to start? Pay for it.

Who knows if they slipped in shit like this and that after the "free" trial, like Toyota, I'll have to pay for the privilege of using them?
 
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59840Surfer

Member
Apr 19, 2020
85
Montana
Dear Mr. Smith,

It has come to our billing departments attention that after the free 21 day trial period of your pacemaker, that you now need to submit $3000.00 per month .........
 

Reprise

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Adding to this thread...
Below is a picture from Mercedes' new EQS (new EV).
What it's showing: A sealed off 'engine' compartment (a dealer tech snapped this, as part of PDI)

1639940717591.png

Say good-bye to 'right to repair' (the legality of closing off access to high voltage equipment to non-certified individuals could be discussed, but I'll bet M-B's position would be upheld (and I'm sure better legal minds than mine (!) over there already discussed it))

M-B isn't even the first manufacturer to do this. From what I understand, Tesla already blocks off access to similar areas, and BMW also does, with their i8 (plug in hybrid).
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I liked this one:
"WARNING Risk of injury from using the windshield wiper..."

It kind of reminds me of badly translated owners manuals.
"WARNING Risk of injury from washing children in the machine"
 
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Reprise

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Yeah, no one on the forum I pulled that from could figure out how the wipers could be hazardous, exactly.
As for fluids, there's a little trapdoor in one of the fenders that pops out a receptacle for filling it (no oil, 'regular' coolant, p/s fluid, etc., to worry about -- but they had to account for wiper fluid).
 

59840Surfer

Member
Apr 19, 2020
85
Montana
I liked this one:
"WARNING Risk of injury from using the windshield wiper..."

It kind of reminds me of badly translated owners manuals.
"WARNING Risk of injury from washing children in the machine"
I can't remember all the words --- but when I bought my first motorcycle --- a Yamaha YZ-250, there was a safety booklet in the tool kit compartment.

If memory serves, there were 10 safety notes - but it's been a long time (since 1963).

1. When driving in a mud puddle, beware for thein lies the Skid Demon.
2. If passing a horse and rider on equestrian path, tootle horn melodiously and pass with the greeting Hi Hi!
3. Should children present upon sidewalk, assure personal escape direction.
4. Wearing of safe clothing assures less worn bones.
5. If passage of time requires new fuel, please that there is nothing smoking
6. I got nothing from here on .....
7. ..........................
8. ................................
9. ..........................................
10. ...................................................
 

littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
I had a Chinese tiller motor for a boat. The translation for how to use reverse was probably the funniest thing I've ever read. If you followed the directions you ended up with like 720 degrees of rotation.

The wiper causing injury, I've seen wipers kick on and skin peoples fingers by getting stuck on rings and such... so its a possibility.
 
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Redbeard

Original poster
Member
Jan 26, 2013
3,466
UPDATE for Toyota FOB:

A spokesperson told The Drive that making the key fob remote start part of a subscription plan was an "unintentional" move.​

Toyota 'Reviewing' Key Fob Remote Start Subscription Plan After Massive Blowback​

Today, we've got answers. Toyota now claims it never intended to market the key fob remote start as a real feature, and it also says the subscription requirement was an inadvertent result of a relatively small technical decision related to the way its new vehicles are architectured. Finally, Toyota has heard the outrage over the last week—a spokesperson told us the company was caught off guard by the blowback—and its executive team is currently examining whether it's possible to reverse course and drop the subscription requirement for key fob remote start.
Earlier this month, we broke a story about Toyota locking its key fob remote start function behind a monthly subscription. If owners of certain models aren't actively enrolled in a larger Toyota connected services plan, the proximity remote start function on the fob—that is, when you press the lock button three times to start the car while outside of it—will not work even though it sends the signal directly to the car. Obviously, this sent people into a frenzy whether they own a Toyota or not, because it was seen as a dark harbinger of the perils of fully-connected cars. Automakers now have the ability to nickel and dime people to death by charging ongoing subscription fees for functions that used to be a one-and-done purchase, and it looked like Toyota was hopping on the bandwagon....

or via Youtube by attorney Steve Lehto

sounds like Toyota was listening to their customers.
 

flyboy2610

Member
Aug 24, 2021
460
Lincoln, Ne.
I had a Chinese tiller motor for a boat. The translation for how to use reverse was probably the funniest thing I've ever read. If you followed the directions you ended up with like 720 degrees of rotation.
I set up and operate a 300 ton (pressure capability, not weight) stamping press. We use check fixtures to check the accuracy of the parts we produce. Within the past year we got a number of dies made in China (thanks a LOT, Honda!) and one of them was assigned to my press. The tool & die supervisor and I spent at least an hour trying to decipher the Engrish (www.engrish.com) instructions for the check fixture! The QA team lead looked at the instructions and said that he would redo them, in real English this time. He did.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Well, looks like Toyota got caught and are now doing damage control. Sometimes it does work when we complain.

As far as heated seats are concerned, apparently it was BMW that was rumoured to be doing it but not here:
 
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59840Surfer

Member
Apr 19, 2020
85
Montana
Like unscrupulous people in the same boat --- Toyota is sorry --- sorry that they got caught.

There is no corporate sorrow any more in Japan - never was in Korea and I'm sure we all know about being sorry in China --> not.

Used to be that Isuzu NHRs had a series of really bad accidents in their bobtail trucks with the Chevy 350 engines and transmission, wherein the brakes failed and drivers got killed.

The staff at Isuzu kept the information away from the president (Toshio Okamoto) - and rumor has it that once he heard it, he killed himself in shame.

Maybe I can find some documents on that - if the Woke-rs haven't rewritten history again.
 
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