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Torquing Lug Nuts - Overrated?

Kurb

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Of course you are supposed to torque your lug nuts....

For many years, I never did, until now. This time, I thought I would do it right. The result was a broken lug.:eek: The lug was nearly brand new since I recently replaced both front hubs. For that job, I did manage to torque the hub bolts and axle nuts without issue.

I figured out today the main cause for the broken lug was an out-of-spec torque wrench. I have two torque wrenches with different ranges, and the one that broke the lug was breaking away at a much higher torque than the other wrench. I ran a test, and the good wrench (at least I think is the case) was at 50 ft-lb to move a lug nut tightened to 35 ft-lb by the bad wrench. I then set the bad wrench to 45 ft-lb and rotated the lug nut without the bad wrench breaking away. This time, I did not push my luck and stopped turning the nut before the wrench clicked.

I normally only use my torque wrenches when fluid seals are involved and for some of the more critical higher torque joints, such at the axle nut. Lug nuts would have fit the bill except that I had tightened lug nuts without issue for years before I owned a torque wrench. The last set of rotors developed a slight pulsation during heavy braking in less than a year, which could be caused by uneven lug nut torque, so I decided I would use the torque wrench with the new rotors. Not only did it take much longer to install the wheels, the first lug on the second wheel snapped off.

My old process was to put a little bit of penetrating oil on the lugs and tighten them as much as I could with a four-way lug wrench. It has worked for many years without issue. I decided to go back to that for now.

I'm curious. Are there are a lot of people out there not torquing lug nuts without problems? For those of you that do torque them, how often do you get your torque wrenches calibrated, and are there any special tricks to avoid breaking lugs (or other bolts)? I noticed that the lug nut seemed to be turning more than it should have, so maybe there is a rule of thumb for how far you should turn the nut past snug-tight before you suspect a torque wrench issue? Glad this was a lug nut and not something threaded into the block.:thumbsup:
 

Mektek

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I use a harbor freight AC electric impact wrench. I don't use a torque wrench at all. There are some super powerful pneumatic impact wrenches that can cause problems, but this electric is just about right for lug nuts. Fast way to do it......
If you broke a nut or stud, it was defective and not because you overtorqued it. I think the official spec is 109 ft/lb - so you under tightened it.
Rotor damage can only be caused by gross abuse - like the 450 ft/lb pneumatic guns can do.
 

northcreek

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You could use a "torque stick" that is rated for your application. A lot of garages use them, they're not as accurate as a torque wrench but, close enough for lugs.
 

Reprise

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I do torque my lugs (as an aside, what vehicle do you have that could possibly have only a 50 ft/lb spec, not to mention a 35?) I've never seen a passenger car with less than an 80ft/lb spec - and our 360s are spec'd at 105, IIRC.

When I used to track my S2000, I would check torque before / after the first couple of runs - and there were many out there with me doing the same thing. Cheap insurance, if you will.

Anti-seize compound might help w/ the lug bolts. Since it's good to use on the inner wheel / outer hub surface, a swipe on the lug threads couldn't hurt. I've used it on mine, which also have some 'snug' threads. Speaking of which - if those threads have corrosion, take a wire brush and give them a good going-over. Then follow up w/ the anti-seize.

If you're worried about having the lug nuts loosen due to the anti-seize - don't. Just don't lather it on like a pre-teen girl or elderly lady applies makeup (w/ a trowel...lol)

I also torque most bolts w/ a listed specification, unless the spec is between 10-15 ft/lb and it's for something non-critical, because I trust my sense of feel with that small amount. Call me anal-retentive.

'Calibration' for me happens when I take a torque wrench back to HF for warranty replacement. Since I only use them to work on my own vehicles, they never see enough usage to go out of spec, to be honest - and I don't toss them around. They are placed back in their case after use, after releasing the tension on the internal spring (and then reapplying about 5lb worth, per manufacturers instructions)

I *did* have one lose one of the small screws fastening the lever / mechanism - and trying to fix it, screwed it up. No worries - they carry a lifetime warranty. For around $15-$20, depending on size (they're always 'on sale') - you really can't beat them.
 
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Dr.Fiero

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Funny thing on "new" tech.
I have at least 6 torque wrenches. I took them all into a buddy who has a calibrated/certified testing machine. He ran all of them through.
They were all within tolerable spec except for one (tossed it), but of all of them - the MOST accurate one was one of my beam deflection ones from the 1940's (that's what era he figured anyhow).

All of my beams ranked the highest in accuracy, vs my clicks.

So - something to be said for old tech! :biggrin:
 

Reprise

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I've heard that the old-style beams will generally be more precise than the clickers, especially for run-of-the-mill tools. Thing is, though - I will tire my arm out holding that beam in position making sure that it's *exactly* on 80 ft/lb, for example (since this started re: lug nuts). With me, '79' isn't enough, and '81' is 'too much' (which is why we use them, I suppose...lol).

Yep, I'm the type that if I had visibly tightened something 1 ft/lb too tight, I'd loosen the bolt and retighten (which means putting the beam down, and picking up the ratchet again, since a beam can't be used to loosen (at least mine couldn't.) And that's when I was younger & stronger. And dumber, obviously... :laugh:

Yes, I know you're not supposed to loosen bolts with a TW, as it can affect the aforementioned calibration - but if that is really the case, why do so many manufacturers include the reversing lever on the clicker-type wrench? Should we call that the 'screw it' lever? LMAO


Didn't take me long to give in and get a 'sloppy' clicker to replace it...LOL I still have the 1/2" beam wrench, somewhere.

I've never had a failure resultant from using the clickers, either way (from being 'too tight' or 'too loose'), so while 'precision' may be called for, 'absolute' precision...isn't - ? LOL At least not in our world of automotive maintenance / repair, most of the time.
 
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Wooluf1952

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The TW can also be used to torque Left hand threads. I think the bigger damage would be using a TW as a breakerbar.
 

Dr.Fiero

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^^ Correct - the idea is not to "beat on" the poor thing, or go over it's intended range.

As for the beam vs. clicker -- would you rather get a free workout, and nail them pretty close. Or would you rather hear your unit go click... and it may or may not be +/- 10 lbs anyhow? Unless you get your wrench calibrated every 6 months (yes, I've worked in places that require it!), you'll never know.

As for the 79/80/81 lbs, that's more than within the acceptable tolerances range anyhow! Of course, every fastener is different.
 

Sparky

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I've been using my clicker Craftsman for years and haven't had a wheel fall off yet...
 

Sparky

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It was pretty close when I tested it against a torque stick about 4 years ago lol.

My lug nuts on my truck call for 140 ft lb. Good thing not any higher, the wrench only goes up to 150.

I have a Tekton 3/8 torque wrench also that I used when reinstalling rocker arms on my Camaro. Only 23 ft lb, and they haven't popped off yet either lol. They do have red threadlocker on them however.
 
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Well with the beam as long as you don't stress it to the point where it begins to yeild you can stress it an indefinite amount of times (roughly) and it'll take about the same amount of force to do it. You know the material properties, measure the distance and applied force for the elastic deformation and it'll about be right. The springs in the clickers wear out faster because it isn't a constant force... the only problem is that a clicker is way more convenient in those shitty spots where it usually actually matters. I use the beam to test the clickers and hold the belt tension. They're great.
 

Mooseman

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I can say that I have had wheels almost falling off a long time ago when I would use just my air impact on my old Montana van. Was hearing noise from a wheel on a trip and had lost some nuts and the ones still there were loose. When I retightened them, a couple of the studs broke. Borrowed a nut or two from other wheels so I had at least 3. It happened a second time on another day. I think it was caused by a failing impact that wasn't giving a lot of torque when tightening.

For torque sticks, they seem to work with caveats. I saw this video a while ago and seems to say they can be good and bad depending on the sockets and impact used.


Of course, torque wrench, clicker or beam, is the best. If I had torque sticks, I'd use one one lower then the one required and finish with a torque wrench.
 

northcreek

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The drift of this thread seems to be that you can/can't trust torque sticks, impact guns and torque wrenches. For years I used an impact gun with judgement and never had a problem. Now I'm all anal with a clicker T-wrench with no problems. So I guess no matter what method you use, a good sense of feel will be required. Most of us long time wrenchers know what a properly tightened lug/bolt is supposed to feel like, RIGHT?
FTR I asked my tire shop what they use and they use good quality (not HF) torque sticks.
 

Kurb

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I do torque my lugs (as an aside, what vehicle do you have that could possibly have only a 50 ft/lb spec, not to mention a 35?) I've never seen a passenger car with less than an 80ft/lb spec - and our 360s are spec'd at 105, IIRC.

Just to clarify, the low torque values were my post failure test. When I broke the lug, I was using the torque value listed in the Haynes manual, which was 103 ft-lb.

The test showed a delta of 15 ft-lb between the two torque wrenches. Assuming the lower torque wrench was bad and the percent error was the same at higher values, this means that the bad wrench would have applied nearly 150 ft-lb. The stud looked elongated as if if failed due to excessive preload, and it did feel like I turned it more than I should have before it broke.
 
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Kurb

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Anti-seize compound might help w/ the lug bolts. Since it's good to use on the inner wheel / outer hub surface, a swipe on the lug threads couldn't hurt. I've used it on mine, which also have some 'snug' threads. Speaking of which - if those threads have corrosion, take a wire brush and give them a good going-over. Then follow up w/ the anti-seize.

If you're worried about having the lug nuts loosen due to the anti-seize - don't. Just don't lather it on like a pre-teen girl or elderly lady applies makeup (w/ a trowel...lol)

.

Won't anti-seize reduce the thread friction and increase the preload for the specified torque values, which normally apply for dry installation?
 
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Won't anti-seize reduce the thread friction and increase the preload for the specified torque values, which normally apply for dry installation?
Dry threads are torqued higher. Yes.
 

itsatruck

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You probably weakened your studs from driving on under-torqued nuts. Properly torqued nuts pulls the wheel against the hub and no lateral pressure is put on the studs. Over torqueing can cause rotor issues I've been told. I don't believe in impact guns.
 

Kurb

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You probably weakened your studs from driving on under-torqued nuts. Properly torqued nuts pulls the wheel against the hub and no lateral pressure is put on the studs. Over torqueing can cause rotor issues I've been told. I don't believe in impact guns.

I have been working on cars for over 25 years without torquing lug nuts, and my first time using the torque wrench on the lug nuts was the first time I ever broke a lug tightening it. Based on my test, I know that the torque wrench put too much torque on the lug and snapped it off. I am pretty sure this had nothing to do with under-torquing.
 

JerryIrons

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I use my clicker torque every time, which hasn't been calibrated once in the 25 years I've owned it, so I have no idea how accurate it is anymore. Not only that, but since I live near Buffalo, NY I use antiseize on my threads, and then go 15% under the torque value specified. So if it's 100 ft lbs recommended torque, on anti-seize threads I'll go to 85. I remember reading somewhere how antiseize causes you to overtorque by about 15 % or so.

Only time I ever ran into trouble is when I lowered the vehicle, and forget to final tighten the lug nuts. A wheel didn't fall off, but it started making strange noises and fortunately I pulled over to look it over. Been paranoid about it ever since.
 

MRRSM

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@Kurb ... I'd be curious to know whether you are the original owner of your SUV... as GOK (God Only Knows) what Prior Owners will do with them mechanically from time to time. Check out Post #20 in my "Spun Stud Rescue" Thread as the YVOP (Youtube Video Original Poster) IMSTRICKEN06 ...has an entertaining and informative video on this very subject matter:

https://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/need-a-spun-stud-rescue.14566/#post-509466
 
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Kurb

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I am not the original owner, but I bought it in 2008 with ~42K miles on it. With over 210K on it now, I might as well be the original owner. The lugs were nearly brand new since I recently replaced the front hubs. Thanks for the info. I don't have time at the moment, but I'll check out the videos when I get a chance.
 

16vcabman

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I do torque my lugs (as an aside, what vehicle do you have that could possibly have only a 50 ft/lb spec, not to mention a 35?) I've never seen a passenger car with less than an 80ft/lb spec - and our 360s are spec'd at 105, IIRC.

When I used to track my S2000, I would check torque before / after the first couple of runs - and there were many out there with me doing the same thing. Cheap insurance, if you will.

Anti-seize compound might help w/ the lug bolts. Since it's good to use on the inner wheel / outer hub surface, a swipe on the lug threads couldn't hurt. I've used it on mine, which also have some 'snug' threads. Speaking of which - if those threads have corrosion, take a wire brush and give them a good going-over. Then follow up w/ the anti-seize.

If you're worried about having the lug nuts loosen due to the anti-seize - don't. Just don't lather it on like a pre-teen girl or elderly lady applies makeup (w/ a trowel...lol)

I also torque most bolts w/ a listed specification, unless the spec is between 10-15 ft/lb and it's for something non-critical, because I trust my sense of feel with that small amount. Call me anal-retentive.

'Calibration' for me happens when I take a torque wrench back to HF for warranty replacement. Since I only use them to work on my own vehicles, they never see enough usage to go out of spec, to be honest - and I don't toss them around. They are placed back in their case after use, after releasing the tension on the internal spring (and then reapplying about 5lb worth, per manufacturers instructions)

I *did* have one lose one of the small screws fastening the lever / mechanism - and trying to fix it, screwed it up. No worries - they carry a lifetime warranty. For around $15-$20, depending on size (they're always 'on sale') - you really can't beat them.


I guess if you don't torque antisieze is just fine NOT. Antisieze reduces friction which will allow you to over torque with a torque wrench. Now add a impact and you may have some real fun getting these off on the side of the road with tools supplied. The torque on the wheels is 100 ft. lbs. do not use antisieze on lugs. great for rust prevention between wheel and brake drums/rotors and also on hub. Have fun as always!
 

northcreek

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This thread is going nowhere so : Everybody has to buy these....
now, all you need is a F'n hammer :2thumbsup:
nla-tra-547-pic1.jpg
 
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Kurb

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@Kurb ... I'd be curious to know whether you are the original owner of your SUV... as GOK (God Only Knows) what Prior Owners will do with them mechanically from time to time. Check out Post #20 in my "Spun Stud Rescue" Thread as the YVOP (Youtube Video Original Poster) IMSTRICKEN06 ...has an entertaining and informative video on this very subject matter:

https://gmtnation.com/forums/threads/need-a-spun-stud-rescue.14566/#post-509466

Great tool! The torque adapter looks like a good way to check torque wrenches for only $29. I am going to have to make a trip to Harbor Freight.
 

DocBrown

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I'm one who has never torqued a lug nut in the 39 years I've been working on my own vehicles, and see no reason to start now. I use an impact wrench and go by feel. Never warped a wheel or broken a stud. And I've had no trouble removing lugs by hand on the road on the few occasions that I had to.

The only time I've had an issue with loose lugs was when I was probably 19 and I hand tightened them on a set of aftermarket chrome wheels. Nearly lost a wheel on the freeway.
 

TobyU

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Funny how every manufacturer has a lug nut torque spec but they all give you a lug wrench and tell you to "tighten" them in tire changing instructions.
Maybe it's just not that critical....

The ability of a rotor to be warped by over or uneven tightening is not the same for all cars. Has to do with rotor style and hub design etc.

For most applications, between tight enough to not loosen up and not stripped or snapped off ....is good enough.

Too many people have a negativity toward "good enough" but shouldn't.
You don't know how many times people cost themselves lots of extra time and/or money because they wanted to be an over-achiever!
 
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gmcman

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I know that the torque wrench put too much torque on the lug and snapped it off

Not saying this was the case, but unless some torque wrenches are different, I learned that to get the proper torque, you need to apply force to the torque wrench at the end of the handle. If you press on it from lets say a hand width away from the edge, (closer to the fastener) you would end up with more torque applied to the fastener.

I haven't researched this, but dates back to when I had a high school job changing tires, stuck in my head ever since.
 

MRRSM

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@TobyU ... The Manufacturers always include an "Owner's Manual" listing the Lug Nuts Torque Value(s) because common sense would dictate that getting a Flat Tire is considered an EMERGENCY requiring Tire Changes "in the rough" using the Basic Jack, Handle and Lug Wrench just good enough to get the Vehicle back on the road... temporarily.

That same Common Sense would guide the Owner to follow up soon afterwards with Checking the Owner's Manual ASAP and perform the requisite Lug Nut tightening sequence and follow the Torque Specifications noted in the Book.

If the Owner was particularly astute...He or She might even carry a 1/2" Torque Wrench under the Back Seat for this very purpose... (For Example... Like the Gear I've learned is better to carry instead of trying to fight with the often inconvenient "Basic Tire Changing Kit", as shown in these images):

DSC07433A.jpgDSC07433.jpgDSC07430.jpgDSC07432.jpg


What you imply about being able to apply a 'Greater Tightening Force by using the Diminished Leverage of moving your hand closer in from the farthest end of the Lever... defies all logic.

In your example, the only thing that would happen is that you'd have to INCREASE the amount of Manual Pressure on the Handle to compensate for losing the advantage a Long Lever offers. (Uh Oh... You Edited out that portion or your Post...)

Well In any case... if you happened to be able bodied enough to apply such an enormous Force against a Foreshortened Lever that was GREATER than the recommended Absolute Torque required... then of course,,, the Fasteners being tightened would simply get Over-Torqued.

The Principles of Leverage laid down by Archimedes himself (and taught in High School Science Classes) would argue against your circumstances. Here is the Math Behind "The Principles of Leverage" that will end any controversy about the matter:


As for making any attempts at "Over-Achieving".... Guessing that (24) Lug Nuts holding on All Four Wheels have been, "Snugged Up... So they're probably ...Okay..." might be a bad place to assert that sort of 'Casual Mechanic's Philosophy' and deliberately overlook the obvious need for safety considerations.

For Example... The 2003 Chevrolet Silverado 1500-2500 Owner's Manual lists the Lug Nut Torque at 140 Foot Pounds (190.0 Nm). There MUST be a Reason WHY GM wants those Acorn Lug Nuts so thoroughly Torqued Down TIGHT.

So Owners of SUVs and Full Size GM Trucks should probably not rely upon a making a general guess that might fall well short of applying Sufficient Force to prevent situations like THIS one from ever happening:

 
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Mektek

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In the past I've never bothered with exact torque on lug nuts. Final tightening with a lug wrench or breaker bar was stepping on the end of it. Of course if you weigh well over 200 pounds that may not be a good idea. With the electric impact I give it just a few "hits" with the rotary hammer action since the maximum is quite a bit above the recommended torque.
Those two options have always worked well. When I got the 9.99 HFT clicker torque wrench, I use that if I'm not in a hurry. But accuracy is not really important in such a large heavy bolt and nut - as long as you are in a certain range above the recommended there will be no issues.
 

TobyU

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"What you imply about being able to apply a 'Greater Tightening Force by using the Diminished Leverage of moving your hand closer in from the farthest end of the Lever... defies all logic. "


That wasn't me that posted that.

I agree that on the owner's manual spec and jacking procedures ot at least "changing flat tire" instructions..that- that is one way to look at it.
However not all times a jack and lug wrench is uses are they replacing flat tire in emergency.
Some people buy tires online and take the wheels off and transport to shop to get the rubber swapped or have summer and winter wheels or just buy another set on marketplace or craigslist and swap them....so there's that.
But this is where people usually don't use the factory jack and lug wrench because they are typically cumbersome and inefficient compared to floor jacks and 4ways or impacts.

Anyone with any minor deal of experience if fully capable of using a 4 way and safely tightening the lugs without a torque wrench but I understand SOME people just feel better or sleep better at night by doing things "their" way or the "right" way or even if it's just thier perceived "right" or "best" way.

The same way some people feel better about putting AC Delco parts on thier GM or Motorcraft on their Fords and spending a lot more in the purchase of these.

Piece of mind is valuable to some people- not all.

To each his or her own and different stoked for different folks.
 

gmcman

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"What you imply about being able to apply a 'Greater Tightening Force by using the Diminished Leverage of moving your hand closer in from the farthest end of the Lever... defies all logic. "

I agree, and I don't fully understand it except for I thought that when the torque value was reached, the tool would provide feedback. If you pulled near the center, I figured you would just need to work harder for the same result.

Not the exact video I was after, so not trying to redirect anything from the author, but a good presentation of proper use.



That wasn't me that posted that.

Ok, my mistake.
 

BrianF

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I guess I like to be a rebel. Never used a torque wrench on lugs. Always go by feel. I also use a very minute amount of anti seize or grease as well. I also try to check them once in a while. Never lost a wheel to loose nuts or to snapping lugs. This includes trucks, cars and trailers.

I try to use the supplied wheel wrench that comes with the vehicle. I only ever step on them if they are welded on tight and I'm trying to loosen them. Is my way fool proof? Nope. Will I ever use a torque wrench? Ahh maybe one day but not with anything that will modify the friction and torque required.
 

Mounce

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In reality close enough is actually good enough. However I'm required at work to use a torque stick after putting a wheel on, very very inaccurate but makes a good show on camera... At home I use a torque wrench on lugs. I don't want to risk anything. If shtf, I used a measuring device set to factory specs. It isn't my fault that something went wrong.
 

MRRSM

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@gmcman... And THAT is the part puzzles me, because Time and Again... I've seen how SERIOUSLY you take the matter to heart regarding the Correct Use and Application of Torque:

APPLYINGPROPERTORQUE.jpg

I suppose that my impressions about this issue were cast in stone... 50 Years Ago when, as a Young Enlisted Lad I was lucky enough to attend the USCG Aviation Machinist's Mate School back in 1970. The 1st Class AMM teaching some of our early Hands-On exposure to an Old R1820 Radial Engine out of a USCG Twin Engine Albatross. He brought all 18 of us around a long table fitted with a Steel Plank Pre-drilled and fitted out with an assortment of Aviation Grade Fasteners. They were Beautiful, all made of High Grade Steel, Anodized and glinting like they were made of Gold and Cross-Drilled through their Hex Flats and Torx Heads meant to accommodate the use of Safety Wire.

The hidden motive behind this lesson was to expose the mistaken impressions that "WE MECHANICS" all harbored about being "experienced enough to Guess the Torque needed to Tighten Bolts... by feel.." So one after another, we used what we all thought were our Best Educated Guesses and worked our way in groups down the line. Meanwhile, the PO1 followed along behind us and used a Torque Stress measuring tool that simply calculated the greater or lesser Bolt Lengths afterwards. He noted the results under each Students' name.

About 70% of us applied over 50% Greater Torque than was called for... while the Other 30% Failed to Tighten Down the Fasteners enough to make them HOLD. ( I was in the Latter Group). Some of us went so far as to exceed the Bolt Strength limitations entirely and so there were a few "Red Faces" among us standing sheepishly over the results and Broken Pieces of their work.

The First Class PO Instructor bade us all to lay down out Tools and return to "The Helo-Shop" and observe the results of some critical component examples recovered from Fatal Aircraft Accidents.... ALL involving mistakes made by Mechanics. The impression made by seeing these chunks of twisted and charred metal components is crystal clear in my mind ...even to this day.

The last thing he said before we broke for Chow was, "Forget EVERYTHING you've EVER Learned about being called Mechanics... If the Machines you Repair should ever Fail... They CANNOT just pull over to the side of the Road and wait for a Wrecker... Never forget what you've seen here today and ALWAYS *RTFCGSM and ALWAYS use the Torque Wrenches you see in the cabinets mounted on these walls... and Remember THIS... In The Coast Guard...YOU WILL FLY IN THE AIRPLANES YOU WORK ON..."

*Read The F&!^*?G Coast Guard Service Manual
 
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TobyU

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@gmcman... And THAT is the part puzzles me, because Time and Again... I've seen how SERIOUSLY you take the matter to heart regarding the Correct Use and Application of Torque:

View attachment 95985

I suppose that my impressions about this issue were cast in stone... 50 Years Ago when, as a Young Enlisted Lad I was lucky enough to attend the USCG Aviation Machinist's Mate School back in 1970. The 1st Class AMM teaching some of our early Hands-On exposure to an Old R1820 Radial Engine out of a USCG Twin Engine Albatross. He brought all 18 of us around a long table fitted with a Steel Plank Pre-drilled and fitted out with an assortment of Aviation Grade Fasteners. They were Beautiful, all made of High Grade Steel, Anodized and glinting like they were made of Gold and Cross-Drilled through their Hex Flats and Torx Heads meant to accommodate the use of Safety Wire.

The hidden motive behind this lesson was to expose the mistaken impressions that "WE MECHANICS" all harbored about being "experienced enough to Guess the Torque needed to Tighten Bolts... by feel.." So one after another, we used what we all thought were our Best Educated Guesses and worked our way in groups down the line. Meanwhile, the PO1 followed along behind us and used a Torque Stress measuring tool that simply calculated the greater or lesser Bolt Lengths afterwards. He noted the results under each Students' name.

About 70% of us applied over 50% Greater Torque than was called for... while the Other 30% Failed to Tighten Down the Fasteners enough to make them HOLD. ( I was in the Latter Group). Some of us went so far as to exceed the Bolt Strength limitations entirely and so there were a few "Red Faces" among us standing sheepishly over the results and Broken Pieces of their work.

The First Class PO Instructor bade us all to lay down out Tools and return to "The Helo-Shop" and observe the results of some critical component examples recovered from Fatal Aircraft Accidents.... ALL involving mistakes made by Mechanics. The impression made by seeing these chunks of twisted and charred metal components is crystal clear in my mind ...even to this day.

The last thing he said before we broke for Chow was, "Forget EVERYTHING you've EVER Learned about being called Mechanics... If the Machines you Repair should ever Fail... They CANNOT just pull over to the side of the Road and wait for a Wrecker... Never forget what you've seen here today and ALWAYS *RTFCGSM and ALWAYS use the Torque Wrenches you see in the cabinets mounted on these walls... and Remember THIS... In The Coast Guard...YOU WILL FLY IN THE AIRPLANES YOU WORK ON..."

*Read The F&!^*?G Coast Guard Service Manual
All true about aircraft.
I have told my friends and coworkers for years...."It's a good thing we don't fly planes!"

I don't apply the aircraft seriousness to autos in most if any cases.
AS it said, you can just pull over to the side of road in most instances. I will agree, losing a wheel at speed is a bit more serious and so are suspension ,esp front, part failures.

Might be illogical....might be logical. Might just be realistic.
I have an odd opinion toward air travel too.
NOW first let me say I would get into any cool, exciting, aircraft or fighter jet this instant because to thrill outweighs the danger which is greater for these type of aircraft.

Plain ol' commercial airplanes though....we all now statistically "the safest form of travel" but no thanks....I'll pick you up at the airport. You get on plane and I'll leave earlier and dive and pick you up at the airport.

I've never seen a fender bender in the air!
Been in a number or accidents and none were serious. Not so much for airplanes....unless you are a 6 year old little boy.
I talked for years about this 6 year old who survived a major plane crash (only survivor) and darn it- just a couple of years ago ANOTHER soul survivor or a plane crash...6 YEARS OLD!!!!

I'll pick you up at the airport.

I have flown commercially on two different large planes. Takeoff is a itty bit exciting....other that that, boring and I'm siting there feeling way past my 6 year old high survival chance the whole flight!
 

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