Too close for comfort?

[outlaw]

Anybody who remembers way back when I was comparing the TB to the Yukon. Please don't add insult to injury. I'm already regretting getting rid of both.

Long story short. If we were in stocks, we would have cashed out at the right time. We got rid of our Yukon just before the gas prices dropped in favor of something more economical.

We/I want something with a real towing capacity. I didn't do my homework and now we are stuck with an SUV thats max tow capacity is 3500lbs. When I went to look at travel trailers, and even a lot of pop-ups. they seem to be on the max side- not including passengers and cargo.

I'm now searching for a TB (again), Yukon (again) or other truck (like Silverado (09 Hybrid caught my eye) for future towing 5th wheel?), something that can haul when needed but not drink fuel so bad as to make us homeless.

I liked both our Yukon and EXT TB for slightly different reasons but ultimately towing/hauling. When we needed to. I didn't have to think if it was capable.

I found and like THIS travel trailer which states 'dry weight' is 4515lbs. I searched a few other sites and found the same. I didn't see any numbers saying they were GVWR.

Using the trailer above;
Trailer- 4515
Passengers- ~700 (2 adults, max 4 kids)
Cargo- ??-

I was reading with the TB, the max is upto 6300 when properly equipped and proper gearing. That still only leaves 1000lbs at best for cargo and water/waste if we use it. On paper, to me, that seems a little too close for comfort.

For a TB, I only want the v8 but for the right truck/price, I don't think it would be a deal breaker (unless it can't haul it). I know the Yukon we had wouldn't have had a problem towing this and really regret getting rid of it now.

Any advice or opinions on which is better?

Thanks,
Outlaw

 

[{tpc}]

Personally, I think you will have to have the v8 to be comfortable towing it. The EXT would probably be even better. We have trailer thats damn near identical to that in weight, and we towed it with the wifes envoy slt 4.2. It did it, but it nor I, were that comfortable doing it. We towed it like twice before I cashed in my car and picked up a tahoe. I've had some moments with sway with the tahoe, but thats about it.

Hope this helps. Have you looked at the pop-ups like roadie has? I forget what they are called but they are actually pretty nice and would be way easier towing with a smaller tb or voy, maybe even the i6 engine.

 

[outlaw]

Thanks for the fast reply and info. What do you think of the Tahoe with that weight trailer? I have a friend with one and pulls about the same size trailer (maybe slightly bigger) but haven't checked with him yet. He also has the 5.3 which I think is the only option for the Tahoe.

Honestly. I've seen the pics but didn't look too much into them. I did find one that was 3500lbs and still slept 4+ (bed at each end). Looks like Trailmanor or Hi-Lo are the 2 options for those.


For the truck type. I think the EXT would be the only way to go- seating wise. I like the look of the shorty but need function first. I know when we had the i6 EXT, our mpg weren't (17 down hill wind pushing us) great with just daily driving. I figure it would be like when we had the Yukon XL with the 5.3. It's a lot of truck for the engine size but is still a capable machine without losing more mpg to the larger engines. A 5.3 in the EXT I hope wouldn't get less than we saw with the i6 until I did the slight lift and little more aggressive tires but that is another topic.

 

[Mark20]

I towed a 4500 lb hybrid with my 4.2 L Envoy and like you didn't like it. Added a Silverado with the 5.3 L and it handles the trailer much better. The Tahoe with the 5.3 should do about the same. It might even be built on the same or similar frame to a Silverado.

 

[{tpc}]

For me pulling with the envoy....well put it to you this way, it could do it, but it wasn't happy about doing it. Pulling with the tahoe, it does it and its happy to do it. The reason I said to go with the EXT is that the longer wheelbase should help some with sway. Its not like I experience that much sway with the tahoe, really it depends on the weather and how well I have loaded and adjusted everything. My experience is that the longer wheelbase helps. The tahoe does not some in a long wheelbase however, so for that, your back to a yukon xl or a surburban.

The first large trip with the smaller engine envoy was all I needed to convince me of the larger truck. Prior to that we had done some smaller more local shakedown runs. We have friends that have a backyard big enough to camp in, and went to one nearby campsite. This first large trip, 300 miles away, loaded with the wife and kids, was not as fun.

Trying to pull a camper at 50 mph in the slow lane on the highway doesn't do much for ones nerves. Plus, you would be surprised at just how much effect a steady stream of vehicles passing you at 70 mph or more has a direct effect on your towing situation. I was able to fix some of this, just by making some slight adjustments on the wd bars. That was until on the way back we encountered some windy conditions...we ended up taking more back roads and a longer trip.

To give another real world example, with the envoy, I considered 55 mph just about an absolute max speed (save for a perfect no wind, empty road downhill type condition) and would never consider passing or even thinking about passing a slower moving vehicle...lol if I could even find one. With the 5.3 and the tahoe, 65 mph would be the max, and thats primarily due to my knowledge of the speed rating on the trailer tires, and the fact that the ones that come with the trialer are typically called "china bombs" because of where they are made and their propensity to just explode, even when nothing is wrong with them and they are used properly. IF I encounter a slower moving vehicle and I feel its safe to pass it, I don't hesitate to do so.

The nice thing about the larger vehicle and engine is that the experience is that much easier and more relaxing, which is what your aim is while camping anyways, right? Its the difference between back aches from sitting all tensed up and white knuckled to just driving safely to your destination. I would assume that a 5.3l v8 ext tb is kinda the best mix between not getting a yukon xl or tahoe and a i6 tb. Search for trialer life towing guides, they are pretty decent with letting you know just how much you should be able to pull with different vehicles, gear ranges, etc.

FWIW, I have the 3.73 gears on my tahoe vs the 3.42 on the wifes envoy. I get about 16 mph in mixed driving, she gets about 18 I would say. Both not towing. On longer more consistent drives I might see 17-18, she might see 20. While towing both seemed to average about 9-10 mpg. I actually think mine got better milage while towing, probably due to not having to work as hard.

 

[HARDTRAILZ]

What years Yukon/Tahoe/Xl/Burban you looking at?

 

[outlaw]

I towed a 4500 lb hybrid with my 4.2 L Envoy and like you didn't like it. Added a Silverado with the 5.3 L and it handles the trailer much better. The Tahoe with the 5.3 should do about the same. It might even be built on the same or similar frame to a Silverado.

Thanks. I guessing the Silverado probably shares a frame with the Suburban/Yukon XL but get your point. I do miss the height and ride of our Yukon XL.

For me pulling with the envoy....well put it to you this way, it could do it, but it wasn't happy about doing it. Pulling with the tahoe, it does it and its happy to do it. The reason I said to go with the EXT is that the longer wheelbase should help some with sway. Its not like I experience that much sway with the tahoe, really it depends on the weather and how well I have loaded and adjusted everything. My experience is that the longer wheelbase helps. The tahoe does not some in a long wheelbase however, so for that, your back to a yukon xl or a surburban.

The first large trip with the smaller engine envoy was all I needed to convince me of the larger truck. Prior to that we had done some smaller more local shakedown runs. We have friends that have a backyard big enough to camp in, and went to one nearby campsite. This first large trip, 300 miles away, loaded with the wife and kids, was not as fun.

Trying to pull a camper at 50 mph in the slow lane on the highway doesn't do much for ones nerves. Plus, you would be surprised at just how much effect a steady stream of vehicles passing you at 70 mph or more has a direct effect on your towing situation. I was able to fix some of this, just by making some slight adjustments on the wd bars. That was until on the way back we encountered some windy conditions...we ended up taking more back roads and a longer trip.

To give another real world example, with the envoy, I considered 55 mph just about an absolute max speed (save for a perfect no wind, empty road downhill type condition) and would never consider passing or even thinking about passing a slower moving vehicle...lol if I could even find one. With the 5.3 and the tahoe, 65 mph would be the max, and thats primarily due to my knowledge of the speed rating on the trailer tires, and the fact that the ones that come with the trialer are typically called "china bombs" because of where they are made and their propensity to just explode, even when nothing is wrong with them and they are used properly. IF I encounter a slower moving vehicle and I feel its safe to pass it, I don't hesitate to do so.

The nice thing about the larger vehicle and engine is that the experience is that much easier and more relaxing, which is what your aim is while camping anyways, right? Its the difference between back aches from sitting all tensed up and white knuckled to just driving safely to your destination. I would assume that a 5.3l v8 ext tb is kinda the best mix between not getting a yukon xl or tahoe and a i6 tb. Search for trialer life towing guides, they are pretty decent with letting you know just how much you should be able to pull with different vehicles, gear ranges, etc.

FWIW, I have the 3.73 gears on my tahoe vs the 3.42 on the wifes envoy. I get about 16 mph in mixed driving, she gets about 18 I would say. Both not towing. On longer more consistent drives I might see 17-18, she might see 20. While towing both seemed to average about 9-10 mpg. I actually think mine got better milage while towing, probably due to not having to work as hard.

Thanks for the detailed experience. This makes me sure of the v8 only in the TB EXT/Envoy XL or going with the Burb/Yukon XL again. I think the silverado is a contender but would need to be a really good deal to loose the additional seating the others offer.

What years Yukon/Tahoe/Xl/Burban you looking at?

We used to have an '03 EXT i6 and Yukon XL 5.3l. I would like to get something newer (04 - 06?) but any of the new model Tahoe/burb/XL ('07 and up) are too much unless you get one in the 200K miles range. We are wanting to stay under $10k for price on whatever we find.

Also, on the size, what was nice with the Yukon XL was it could take E85. At the time, it was 30-50c per gallon cheaper but we didn't lose any mpg. If we got something with that option, I think that would be a perk too. Oh and the second row captains chairs were excellent too for accessing the 3rd row (especially when used for 6 adults).


Thanks again guys. It is definitely appreciated!
Outlaw


*edit- is it bad I kinda want the EXT again just so I can do my subwoofer idea using the floor cubby and the few inches to the top of the folded third row. lol

 

[{tpc}]

If it were me, I'd prob go with a yukon xl. You will be happier knowing you have all the room in the world if your hauling a bunch of peeps around, and you would have to look it up, but I bet it has more payload capacity which is helpful when you are towing. FWIW, if I know I will have no use for the 3rd row when towing, I take it out to add payload capacity. I really need to get everything to the CAT scales and get it weighed just so I know, but it makes my head spin thinking about how to go about it.

Your correct about the mileage vs cost, as my 07 tahoe with 175k on it I got for just under 15k. I did trade my car in on it, so that kept my price down to just about 10k. I had the need for it however, it was the best one I had looked at even when looking at newer lower mileage ones (by lower I mean 150k 08's etc), and it was loaded. So I pulled the trigger. I've put some money into by way of shocks, but I feel better about that investment than spending that money on my car which would have needed it as well. Next thing will be tires, and brakes, not necessarily in that order.

As for e85, everytime I see it brought up, the end theory is that it really isn't a cost savings to use it. Right now the best cost savings is the huge drop in oil and there by gas prices.

 

[outlaw]

Thanks for the info.

The mileage is what scares me especially with the towing capabilities they are setup with from the getgo. If it were several years (5-10?) ago (although about that timeframe, 100K miles was also considered high mileage), I probably wouldn't worry too much but in today's world, everyone is set on disposable and doesn't care about anything anymore (you have to do what? oil? huh..) lol.

At this time, we aren't going to be trading anything in. Just finance what we can with maybe some cash on top. I'll have to see what I can find in that year range like you did. If I can find a good dealer to buy from, it may put some worries to rest.

As for the E85. From people I've talked to with cars (Impala) that take it, the E85 kills the mpg and offsets any cost savings. What we found with the Yukon XL is the mpg was already bad enough that the E85 had no noticeable mpg impact. Therefore, we were able to save 30-50c per gallon on an avg fillup up of about 20 gallons every/every other week. Right now, in our area, E85 and regular are the same price so it doesn't really matter. When regular was 3.50 or whatever, E85 was still around 3.00. There were a couple times the difference was even more.

Thanks again,
Outlaw

 

[Bow_Tied]

I have no real world experience to offer but I am following along as I have some similar constraints.

We just got our SWB Envoy with the 5.3L as we are hoping to upgrade our travel trailer to something bigger for the growing family. My first choice was a Yukon however the vehicle was going to serve as DD for my wife and she didn't want a full size for inner city driving (I don't blame her, she didn't grow up with big vehicles like I did) but that aside, as noted the full size were much more money to buy and were not as good on fuel. I wanted something reasonably reliable for family hauling duty so I was looking for something around 60k miles. Yukons were double the price of our Denali @ 80k miles around here, if you could find one.

The other thing I decided was that buying the trailer before the tow rig was putting the cart before the horse. Instead I'd by the best rig I could comfortably afford and make the trailer fit within that capacity. I am now hoping in the spring to shop for a trailer with a GVWR of 4500-5000 which allows a little comfort room, which likely means a dry weight of 3500 or a tad more. The trailer you posted is beautiful, but if you could find one a tad lighter to comfortably fit within the TB/Envoy/9-7x specs then you save money vs. the Yukon - or get a lower mile example for the same price etc. The latter is what I did anyway, I did find our '06 with 60K on the clock. But I have no results yet, just a plan in progress. I wish you much success with your rig/trailer shopping.

 

[outlaw]

Thanks and likewise on your search.

When we had the i6 ext, we got max of about 17mpg, with the Yukon XL, it didn't matter what we did, it was about 15mpg. Overall I can't complain about either for what we did with them while we had them.

EXT- Max haul was 5 adults, 1 large dog and camping gear for the weekend.

Yukon XL- Max haul was 2 rows plus cargo space filled with wood almost to headliner. The suspension didn't care for it and showed it's anger but the acceleration and stopping were OK. I kept it in 3 and slow.

That trailer I linked is definitely a want to have but not a need. To stay in the EXT/XL range, the wife and I don't mind something smaller as who knows what we'll have in 5-10 years. I'm still OK with tents for now but that is probably going to be short lived... I know air mattress' and foam pads.. lol

As for the shopping around part. There are quite a few around here under our 10k budget- most around 85-120k on them. It's the v8 that makes it more difficult to get the TB\Envoy

 

[The_Roadie]

Hi-Lo's are built like battleships compared to Trailmanors. I love my Trailmanor, an older 3023.

 

[Bow_Tied]

As for the shopping around part. There are quite a few around here under our 10k budget- most around 85-120k on them. It's the v8 that makes it more difficult to get the TB\Envoy

I hear ya there, took me 3 months of daily searching, several drives to look at junk, and finally found it 2 hours away from home. Even at that this truck was traded in and sold to someone else before I finally got it.

Keep an eye out for 9-7xs - around here they are cheaper which is weird considering they'd have been more new.

 

[outlaw]

Hi-Lo's are built like battleships compared to Trailmanors. I love my Trailmanor, an older 3023.

[image removed for quote]

Wow. You aren't kidding. Looking at some pictures, once your in it, it doesn't even look like a pop-up. Too bad, they still aren't within our new turds capacity.

Yours- ~2900 Dry
m-2308c- ~4000 Dry (assumed, just said weight)

I hear ya there, took me 3 months of daily searching, several drives to look at junk, and finally found it 2 hours away from home. Even at that this truck was traded in and sold to someone else before I finally got it.

Keep an eye out for 9-7xs - around here they are cheaper which is weird considering they'd have been more new.

Wow. I'm glad we don't have a rush for one. I have been checking several times a week to see whats new. I am keeping the search within 50-100 miles of my zip. Hitting that 100 mark gets me a lot of garbage sold in Chicago (I'll never drive down there again to look at a car). Those 9-7x's are pretty nice looking. I don't think I considered it because they didn't have an "EXT/XL" version. And ouch- 08 w/ 6L and 102K miles for $15,... I know, I know, but it's an SS with a different badge. I could get an 06 EXT loaded w/ 5.3L and 102K for $10,. and if we keep going back in time.. an 04 EXT TNF loaded w/ 5.3L and 98K miles for $8,. Lots of shopping and comparing to do. Also trying to see the different of 4spd vs 6spd tranny and if swaps are even possible in the EXT/XL or BURB/XL for the older models. That is another topic though.

 

[Bow_Tied]

Hey Outlaw, did you get a rig/trailer yet?

 

[outlaw]

5 months to reply isn't too late is it? :/

We haven't pulled the trigger on anything. Lot's of dreaming though.