The Terrible Horrible No-Good Misbehaving Envoy Idle

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Envoyable

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Member
Oct 28, 2013
7
I have a 2002 GMC Envoy SLE with an i6 4.2. I had the dreaded rough idle in park, neutral and when shifted into drive. Sort of mild and not persistent and was tolerable - like a reoccurring rash. Little ointment and long sleeves and all was well. Until now.

I just did a cylinder soak with seafoam (it's come to this) and vacuumed it all out trying to fix this idle. Car wouldn't start after this. Got it started finally - different posting - still not sure what happened. Then I blew 24 oz through the intake. I had the pedal wedged at 1800 rpms for the seafoam and all seemed well. Right. Went for a test drive and I got P0014 Exhaust Camshaft Position (CMP) System Performance and P0300 General Misfire. The battery had drained completely while I had the starting issue so I thought maybe it did a relearn for the throttle while I was revving and seafoaming because I didn't test drive first, so I disconnected the battery for a couple of hours and took it for another test drive. Still get P0300 and P0014. "Ah, P0014, it's been a long time my diagnostic friend."

No codes were set in the last couple months prior to seafoaming. Two full months! I was dancing and skipping with Jesus in the sunshine. So no codes and it was a much milder, less consistent rough idle, though it was increasing over the past months. I've put in new – Coil Packs, AC Delco Iridium Plugs, Both Oxygen Sensors, Cam Position Actuator Solenoid, Cam Position Sensor, Intake Air Temp Sensor, MAP Sensor and Crankshaft Position Sensor. Also a Fuel Filter, Air Filter and the Intake was off and cleaned and has a New Gasket when I put in new/used Injectors and a new/used Fuel Pressure Regulator which came used from ebay with 50k miles on them (wish I would've went with new instead -cost(dumb). I cleaned the throttle body several times and finally bought a new one a few months ago because it has a sealed sensor on that, so that’s new too. I replaced the 8-wire pigtail on the sensor throttle 2 years ago because it was bad. Oil flushed with crankcase cleaner a year ago – was desperate then, too. Oil change this morning. The battery is new this year but it drained on me in the garage this week and I wasn’t sure if I left something on. Test drove it and it drained again yesterday. This is just getting better. When I hook up the charger the headlight washer activates and sprayed me - huh?. That's not normal, that's an attitude problem (wiping face).

I think I'm going through 2-3 ounces of oil per month so I performed (you know, like a circus monkey) a cylinder pressure test. Dry test came out (from rear to front) : PSI – 118 137 135 140 130 140. I was unable to get the adapter threaded into the cylinders so I held the test gauge tube by hand. Not sure I had a good fit at the rear cylinder so I wet tested with a firm fit at – 140 150 150 154 151 160. The rear cylinder seems suspect but not hugely out of range to me. Plugs all looked consistent and all good. Maybe a leak down test is needed? Sledge hammer? Tall cliff? I do live near a river.

So now I don’t know what to do with this P0014 code. Another Cam Position Actuator Solenoid? – sure, whatever you want (muttering) you bottomless money hole. "What's that dear?" "Um, nothing!" (did it hear me)? How about a catalytic converter…motor mounts…ECM? Only if I have to pay full retail! Alright! Gosh - can I pretty please pay with blood and tissue instead of cash? (fingers crossed)

I want to love this car and give it everything it wants but it hates me. I’ve spent more time with it than humankind but it spits in my face, literally. I don’t think I want to be nice to it anymore. It makes me feel bad and useless, dirty – like bad touch. It plots against me. It makes me angry. I used to think I knew things but this car makes me feel stupid.
 

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gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
Your compression is slightly low, not terrible but a little low for a 10:1 motor.

Have you changed your motor mounts? I had a terrible shake at idle and the new mounts made it like new, use OE mounts only. If the mlounts are not suspect then first thing to do is take a piece of paper, like an envelope, and hold it against the tailpipe and see if the exhaust holds it away from the tip, or does it try to suck it back it sometimes? This will determine if you may have an exhaust valve hanging open.

Second is to take a vacuum gauge and hook it up either to the TB on the port facing the front, or the manifold vacuum port on the passengers side of the intake facing #2 cyl. This will determine if you may have an intake valve hanging open.

Your compression is slightly low, not terrible but a little low for a 10:1 motor.

Sounds like you had bad mounts and all the treatments may have tripped a code, or coincidence.
 

Envoyable

Original poster
Member
Oct 28, 2013
7
There's a 182k on this. The last 40k have been miserable and they've been all mine - but it has tinted windows! As far as compression goes I figure yeah, it's off but not so far out of range for it's age. I'll probably lose a little pressure too, someday.

What should I be looking for the throttle body/intake pressure? Are there specs or a procedure I could look into somewhere? I like procedures. I had considered motor mounts but the idle got really noticeably erratic after the intake flushing. The resurrection of the P0014 is what gets me. :undecided:

take a piece of paper, like an envelope, and hold it against the tailpipe and see if the exhaust holds it away from the tip, or does it try to suck it back it sometimes? This will determine if you may have an exhaust valve hanging open. That's just cool.
 

Envoyable

Original poster
Member
Oct 28, 2013
7
Here's an update for anyone interested. I took another test drive and I kept checking and clearing the P0700 code that kept coming up. After about a half hour of doing this a P0701 registered. Aha! - finally something to zero in on. I haven't seen a cylinder specific code for a long time. It only happened once and wouldn't repeat but it led me to that cylinder. I swapped coils with #2 cylinder and found that the coil was the problem - part of it. Things got smoother but it still wasn't like it should be and now it wasn't coding - seems to do that a lot.

I decided to take it in for a diagnostic and have them do a CASE relearn while they had it. The guy calls me from the shop and says the compression on the cylinders was good - all six - but another yet another coil/cylinder was missing. So another new coil along with a CASE relearn and it's driveable. Not sure how much the relearn helped after the coils got replaced but I'm sure it couldn't have hurt. Now after it's warmed up and sitting at idle it does have a stronger vibration than I think it should but I feel this can possibly be attributed to motor mounts.

So after buying 6 new no name coils on the cheap (from ebay), 3 of those have gone bad -- just a crap set of junk parts. My replacements have been Borg Warner coils and if I get another miss in the future I will immediately suspect/check the coils. It's frustrating because the bad ones didn't code strongly, or at all, and they shouldn't have gone bad to begin with. arrrrrrrrrrghh :hissyfit:

Hope it helps someone else down the road.
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Envoyable said:
Here's an update for anyone interested. I took another test drive and I kept checking and clearing the P0700 code that kept coming up. After about a half hour of doing this a P0701 registered..


Glad you found your problem.
However, did you mean P0300 and P0301? My service manual doesn't list a P0700 or P0701.
 

Envoyable

Original poster
Member
Oct 28, 2013
7
Wooluf1952 said:
However, did you mean P0300 and P0301?

Yep, for sure - P0300 and PO301. Good catch...sorry.

I was just checking codes on my minivan yesterday and it coded PO700 again - with a couple other transmission 'P07xx' codes and I had those stuck in my head. I'm quickly and unwittingly beginning to discover the joylessness of the Chrysler A604 transmission. Apparently it's the village idiot of the transmission world and now it's my special clingy, bug-eyed friend.




View attachment 31378 It's just you and me, buddy! Are you going to finish that sandwich?
 

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gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
The coils aren't terribly expensive to keep the OE coils in there, with electronics AC Delco is generally a sure bet. Also, you don't need a CASE relearn with a coil change, only a crank sensor change.
 

Envoyable

Original poster
Member
Oct 28, 2013
7
gmcman said:
Also, you don't need a CASE relearn with a coil change, only a crank sensor change.

Yep. I replaced the crank sensor a while back (first post) - never did a CASE relearn so I had the shop do it as long as they were performing a diagnostic (free dum-dums at the counter!).
Got to get me one of those Tech 2 tools.

View attachment 31417
 

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