Temp Transmission Cooler Line Question

tak13

Original poster
Member
Apr 2, 2019
14
NH
Hello All,
One of the cooler lines from the trans to radiator is leaking slightly. I plan on replacing both, but understand it's a real PIA, and could take hours.

Because of that, and because I live in NH and would have to do it "in the wild" (my driveway), I am thinking I can temporarily just run rubber trans hoses, using compression fittings and barbs until warmer weather comes? They aren't high pressure lines, are they?

Thanks for any input!

Edit - to clarify, I would only be cutting out the leaking section, and cutting back the steel line to a spot that's clean but still accessible, then using the hose/line to replace the cutout section.
 
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Reprise

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FYI - 4L60e line pressure normally runs between 190-240psi, depending on conditions. There's some pressure, but not as high as, say, a p/s pressure side hose, for example

Because of that, be *sure* to use (3/8" I.D.) fluid hose rated for at least that much (Derale makes a good one in various lengths that you can get on Amazon, if you don't have a local source handy). I'd flare the ends of the cut line, if you can manage it.

Depending on how bad the leak is, you might be able to slit a section of hose lengthwise, then fasten the opposite end against the leak & clamp it up. Wouldn't last 'forever', but could get you to the warmer weather. And it would only take a few minutes to do, so if it didn't work, nothing really lost except a little time. I did that for a temporary repair on a corroded VW gas line years and years ago when I was young / poor. It held up (although I doubt I'd do that same repair on a gas line, today)
 

tak13

Original poster
Member
Apr 2, 2019
14
NH
Thank you both for replying.

If I go compression (versus flaring - depending on where I end up cutting), I see conflicting info as to whether the stock in/out lines to the trans is 5/16 or 3/8 OD. Do either of you know for sure which one it is?
 

Reprise

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I just looked up the parts on Rock... the AC Delco is listed with O.D. of 0.37in / 9.52mm, and I.D. of 0.31in / 8mm. That converts to 3/8" O.D. , I believe. But double check.
When it comes to arithmetic, I'm a great historian. :wink:

One of the reasons I mentioned 3/8" was the Derale hose I mentioned - I picked up about 25' a couple of months ago to use for my p/s return lines (at 1/3 the cost of stock parts that were 'cut to fit', anyway), and I remembered the I.D. of it was 3/8".
 

tak13

Original poster
Member
Apr 2, 2019
14
NH
Thanks for the info - it's interesting that the spec is on Rock's site, but it's not even listed on their own site (parts-catalog.delco).

I ordered the Lisle Jiffy-tite tool (22930). It was only a little more than $12 from the site named after the area in South America. I only ordered the 3/8 rather than the set, as I don't have any other car that uses such a Jiffy-tite type connector. Hopefully it will make removal at the trans a LOT easier (when I actually get to doing it) since it's such a low profile tool and just requires a slight twist to unlock the retainer once you wrap it around the tube/pipe.
 

Mooseman

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Dec 4, 2011
25,262
Ottawa, ON
You CAN name Amazon. In fact we even encourage posting a link to what you bought
 
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Reprise

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Thanks for the link. I almost pulled the trigger on one, as I'm going to be disconnecting lines soon - but it looks like I can use the same tool I have for the fuel lines, so I'll try that first.

The tool you reference states it can remove the line while leaving the retaining clip intact, which is nice. FYI - you can push the line / fitting back on without removing the clip (by design), so if your tool works OK, the clip can stay on, throughout.
 

tak13

Original poster
Member
Apr 2, 2019
14
NH
There are indentations at the end of the flange. You initially push it in so the indentations end up sitting BETWEEN the bumps in the spring. You then turn the tool and the ends will push the spring outward so you can pull the tube out, leaving the spring attached to receiver.

Yes, that way when installing, you just have to push the new tube into the receptor and not worry about trying to get the spring back into the slot in the receiver.

I think I've read where someone just modded something like a fuel line tool, but you will have to cut the indentations so you can get the tabs between the bumps of the spring, then turn to expand it. If you just try to push a flat ended fuel disconnect tool in, it won't get past the spring bumps.

I just figured at $12 with free delivery (I'm a Prime member), why bother with finagling my own.
 
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Reprise

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No argument here; since I've got so many tools, I try and repurpose, if I can. Especially if it's something that I'll rarely use in the future.

If it doesn't work, I've got pick tools, and not too worried about removing the clip, if I have to do so.
 

gmcman

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Dec 12, 2011
4,656
Are your trans lines leaking near the front or the rear of the junction?

I just replaced my coolng lines near the end of fall, the rear-most lines are a huge pita, the front not as bad.

Just be very careful of the aluminum mating collar or what ever it's called....the larger part with the metal clip. Mine was very stubborn and not much room to work.

If I had to do it again, I would cut the front line (if you have the new one already) about 6" from the junction and then rotate the line to free it. Don't use pliers on the aluminum coupling, you will booger up where the metal clip rests.
 

coolasice

Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,019
Northern Maine
I just replaced my coolng lines near the end of fall, the rear-most lines are a huge pita, the front not as bad.
Agreed 1000%.... to get to the rear lines easily you should remove the cat pipe... I was able to do it without removal but it is a wicked pain in the ass. I placed the truck on 4 ramps for height. Unbolt the trans cross member, lowered 3-4", and pull to the drivers side as far as possible. You can get your hands/arms (if you have small hands) into the area to reinstall the lines. Removing the cat would give you a bunch of room and make it much easier but that in itself can be a pain.
 
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gmcman

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Dec 12, 2011
4,656
I went out and looked and the coupling is on the front lines to the cooler under the air cleaner. So if replacing just the front it doesn't matter if the coupling gets messed up.

Only if the couplings are stubborn...there's no doubt, If I had all 4 pieces, I would cut the old lines about 6" from the fitting to get some pliers on the tube.

Also I would cut the old lines near the trans pan to get more wiggle room to break the line free and move it out of the way.

Once you get a wrench on the lines at the trans, it's just little by little and those come out easier.....it's just the clip can be frustrating.

I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND picking up a few extra metal clips just in case.

With the lines in such close proximity to the exhaust, especially the cat, I would highly advise against using rubber hoses on the lines anywhere along the rear lines. Many fires have started from trans fluid on the exhaust.
 
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mrrsm

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As cold as things are up in New Hampshire now... if you absolutely MUST replace the Old Transmission Cooler Lines with New OEM Metal Lines... This Video has some neat workarounds and part numbers if, like @coolasice suggested... your arms and hands are not too thick to reach from odd areas to get this PITA Job completed. Also... Laying down 3-4 layers of Cardboard Boxes can provide awesome insulation from the Cold Ground ...and allow you to slip and slide under the Truck without accidentally "Dropping Trow" :>(


For Newcomers to this Problem:

Much of the Difficulty faced by the VOP (Video Original Poster) with using a Pick to remove the Tri-Lobe Spring Steel Clips can easily be avoided using a Knurled Brass Tool (Courtesy suggestions made here by @tak13 and in other Trans Threads by @Mooseman and @m.mcmillen) designed to relieve the Locking Lobes of those Clips by slipping the Spring-Loaded Tool Collar around the Transmission Cooler Pipes (in front of the Black Plastic Clip Shields) and after sliding it Forwards and then Rotating the Tool slightly... those Pipe Segments will slide right out of the Transmission Cooler Line Nuts:

Available on Amazon for around $12.50 :


LISLE22930A.jpgLISLE22930B.jpgLISLE22930C.jpgLISLE22930D.jpgLISLE22930E.jpg
 
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coolasice

Member
Oct 27, 2013
1,019
Northern Maine
For Newcomers to this Problem:

Much of the Difficulty faced by the VOP (Video Original Poster) with using a Pick to remove the Tri-Lobe Spring Steel Clips can easily be avoided using a Knurled Brass Tool (Courtesy suggestions made here by @tak13 and in other Trans Threads by @Mooseman and @m.mcmillen) designed to relieve the Locking Lobes of those Clips by slipping the Spring-Loaded Tool Collar around the Transmission Cooler Pipes (in front of the Black Plastic Clip Shields) and after sliding it Forwards and then Rotating the Tool slightly... those Pipe Segments will slide right out of the Transmission Cooler Line Nuts:

Available on Amazon for around $12.50 :


View attachment 93064View attachment 93065View attachment 93066View attachment 93067View attachment 93068
I wish I'd known about that tool when I did mine.
 
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JerryIrons

Member
Dec 20, 2011
434
I'm late to the party, but when my transmission lines leaked I patched them with copper line and compression fittings, both purchased at either home depot or lowes. As long as you have good line to put those fittings on it's works well, and much better than the choice of putting any kind of rubber lines on. I've done this twice, still have the original lines on an 06 with 285,000 miles in western ny, where you can actually see parts rust faster than grass grows :smile:
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,656
My lines actually rusted under the factory heat sheath. Still a necessary item given the close proximity to the exhaust.
 
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tak13

Original poster
Member
Apr 2, 2019
14
NH
I actually haven't been able to get under there yet. My wife just uses it on snow days, and it's not THAT big of a leak (right now). I noticed it because I was looking at what was making a scraping sound (turned out to be a rusting dust shield). At the time, I noticed a trail and drip from the oil drain plug and followed it up a little.

I didn't have much time at the time, because we had to head out somewhere. At first, in my head, because of where it was, I thought it was a line leak or something for the PS, then I remembered that when the PS cooler leaked (from rust), I used Royal Purple, and the fluid drip I saw was red.

So the leak is somewhere under the PS pump/reservoir, from one of the tubes that goes from the trans to the quick-connect (the long ones).

Depending on what I see/how bad the overall line is, I may go hard line route with compression fittings - especially if it's bad where it runs near the cat.

Because of the time it seems to take, I'm not going to replace the whole thing until it warms up. Who knows, if the splice holds up really well, I might not even bother swapping the whole line.

I already ordered the Lisle Jiffy-tite tool images above. If I do the full line swap come spring, hopefully it will make it easier.

If I do a hard line splice, I may go nicopp lines, since they are useable for transmission lines, they're much easier to bend, and they're rust proof.
 
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mrrsm

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Not to 'Flame' @JerryIrons on what I think was a very clever temporary solution for him to take at the time... But if possible, there are some very good reasons to Avoid Using Copper Lines versus employing the Stock, OEM Zinc-Plated Steel Pre-Bent Tubing versions from ACDelco in all GM-GMC Transmission Cooling Line applications, as per this excerpt:

"I wouldn't. Copper tube burst pressure usually derates as temps increase. What might have a 500 psi burst at room temp 70* could have a burst of 125 at 180*. Not much of a safety factor with trans pressures/temps. Add in vibration and stress hardening and it may not last long, especially in long runs. Look around the net for burst pressure calculations ( Barlows Formula)"

Excerpt Courtesy:

 
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tak13

Original poster
Member
Apr 2, 2019
14
NH
If I do a hard line temp splice (as opposed to rubber), I would not run copper anyway - I would just use nicopp tubing. It's readily available, and it can stand brake line pressures, so I wouldn't be worried about the pressure from a tranny.
 
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mrrsm

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Agreed. Your prior posted suggestion and idea for using that Copper-Nickel material is also covered and well documented in the linked Thread I mentioned above ...as a very robust alternative choice to using the Pre-made Steel Lines with over15,000 Maximum PSI Test Pressure.
 

JerryIrons

Member
Dec 20, 2011
434
I checked my records, and the 2nd time it was repaired with copper was back in May of 2015, and over 70k miles ago. And I tow a 3500 lb boat from time to time. Having said that, I like the idea of copper nickel better and certainly would have used that instead had I known :smile:
 

matermark

Member
Nov 3, 2020
59
Niagara Falls NY
I checked my records, and the 2nd time it was repaired with copper was back in May of 2015, and over 70k miles ago. And I tow a 3500 lb boat from time to time. Having said that, I like the idea of copper nickel better and certainly would have used that instead had I known :smile:
Jerry, are you in the Buffalo area? I bought all 4 GM/AC Delco lines as well as the Lisle tool and undecided if I should tackle the job--I have no garage and very few tools...
 

JerryIrons

Member
Dec 20, 2011
434
I am actually, one of the suburbs in the southtowns. If you are looking to get rid of them let me know. Although if original steel they will just rust up so not sure. Also, you can supply a mechanic shop with those parts and they'll install them for you as an option.
 

matermark

Member
Nov 3, 2020
59
Niagara Falls NY
I am actually, one of the suburbs in the southtowns. If you are looking to get rid of them let me know. Although if original steel they will just rust up so not sure. Also, you can supply a mechanic shop with those parts and they'll install them for you as an option.
@JerryIrons No, I'm looking for someone to install the lines! A local garage that's pretty new to the area put it on the lift and was leaking badly, enough that I need a trans... it was hard to understand their English but to fix ONE rusty line using compression fittings they told me $120, so I bought the four AC Delco lines and the Lisle tool. I'm hoping to find [maybe] someone on the forum to do the install at a reasonable hometown discount price... Then I can at least drive it (2nd gear) to get groceries & medications and a used or rebuilt or rebuildable 4l60/65e... this is just to get me up & standing (sorry, I can't walk/run, I'm handicapped) until I can secure a transmission...

By the way, most shops I told I have the lines said they only install THEIR parts! Greedy bastards want to make money on you twice--on labor AND parts! I ran into this problem with coated cross-drilled, slotted rotors & anti-corrosion calipers too... All 4 rotors and ceramic pads were SIXTY-NINE dollars on a clearance sale for my ZR2 and they sold out, so there was no way the mechanic could have bought the same thing. I took it to someone in Hamburg/Derby area who did all 4 rotors, calipers, pads, and bled all 4 wheels for $90 + $10 tip... He is a friend of a friend who works at Firestone, who, by the way, wouldn't do the job with my parts. I'm "saving" him to do the trans R&R if I get one... unless I got the trans ready to go and have him do both... I don't think I can wait--I'm starving!
 

Reprise

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Then I can at least drive it (2nd gear) to get groceries & medications

I don't think I can wait--I'm starving!

I know this is probably 'obvious', and I'm sure you're not being literal, and I don't mean to pry... but is delivery not available in your area? (Shipd, Instacart, etc., for groceries, and the major chain pharmacies in my area (Walgreens, CVS; maybe Duane Reade in your area?) offer delivery, as well). I know there are generally fees for the service, but you'd have food and medicine, in a pinch.

If you're wary of Covid / immunocompromised, groceries can be dropped at the door, and a notification sent to you that they're there. Not sure what the rules are re: Rx, and whether they can be dropped off 'contact free', or if you'd have to sign for them, etc. If any are controlled substances, probably 'not', based on my prior work in a related occupation.

No need to reply here (for privacy's sake) and unfortunately, I'm an easy 800 miles from you, or I'd offer to go shopping & install your parts, myself.
Again, if I'm overstepping, my apologies.
 

matermark

Member
Nov 3, 2020
59
Niagara Falls NY
I know this is probably 'obvious', and I'm sure you're not being literal, and I don't mean to pry... but is delivery not available in your area? (Shipd, Instacart, etc., for groceries, and the major chain pharmacies in my area (Walgreens, CVS; maybe Duane Reade in your area?) offer delivery, as well). I know there are generally fees for the service, but you'd have food and medicine, in a pinch.

If you're wary of Covid / immunocompromised, groceries can be dropped at the door, and a notification sent to you that they're there. Not sure what the rules are re: Rx, and whether they can be dropped off 'contact free', or if you'd have to sign for them, etc. If any are controlled substances, probably 'not', based on my prior work in a related occupation.

No need to reply here (for privacy's sake) and unfortunately, I'm an easy 800 miles from you, or I'd offer to go shopping & install your parts, myself.
Again, if I'm overstepping, my apologies.
@Reprise No problem asking. I have used my local pharmacy for a delivery today, the driver calls when he arrives, I put on my body parts and head down the stairs and instead of him bringing them to the door, he stands outside a 6ft tall wooden gate 6ft away and hands me them over the gate; I say "Thank you" and he walks away without saying a word. Then, about 4-6 hours later, I get a text from my pharmacy that a driver will be delivering Rx's later this afternoon after 1pm.

[side note] What is really strange is that what was inside the bag was insulin, gabapentin, and a new One Touch Ultra glucose test kit... the only thing I took out of the bag was the test kit; about 2 or 3 hours later I started overheating and took my sweater off and my T-shirt was fully soaked. My neck felt soar trying to nod & twist it... then I started getting that sick feeling like the flu. I got the chills and tried to sleep it off for a few hours but woke still wet. I went down to spend some time with the dog and started shaking/chills. I remember going to bed and putting my headphones on and shaking until I fell asleep. Today I still have that blah feel and stiff neck.

Did I get the flu? How could I? I haven't left the house in over a month.

OK, back to the delivery services. I have Amazon's Prime, the version for poor people. It may have went up but it was like $5.9x/month. They also take EBT/SNAP (formerly "food stamps") on items they are the vendor for. So with the Prime, I can get deliveries in 2 days or less--they have a regional warehouse in one of the suburbs and they got away from UPS making deliveries nd they have their own vehicles & drivers! That was doing good for me but no produce type stuff. I was using it mostly for non-perishables and boxed things like cereal BUT a big advantage was 6-packs of diet soda--and 2-liters--I'd order like 4 of each. It was just cents over walking into a Walmart and buying it locally.

So, speaking of Walmart, I was ordering $100 or more in groceries and picked them up (before the trans went, over a month ago) and they brought them out and loaded up your vehicle... I have an Envoy XUV and swing open the gate for them, get back in, roll down the midgate window in case I need to say something and they slam the gate closed & I'm on my way home.

I can't do this with a blown cooler line so I've been ordering everything DELIVERED instead. They take a couple days to get a time slot, then they charge $7.99 or $9.99 depending on the time slot. Then they ask you to tip the driver when you place the order, though you can edit the amount after receiving the order. They suggest something like 10-15%, so on a partial order of $100, that's as much as $25 for tip & fee. Sometimes I try to do a huge monthly order like $200, so that's just $9.99 delivery but over $20 tip. I can't do those #s. They bring the groceries inside the gate and put them on the ground. Once they didn't use any brains and put them in front of the door, blocking me in... how much tip do you think I gave for that screwup? That's the only usable door right now. I had to borrow money from 3 financiers/loan sharks to buy this vehicle, I just got it in September and only put on 281 miles before the trans line happened! It's my only vehicle. It has 77K on it, I never thought of a rusty trans line springing a leak!
 

matermark

Member
Nov 3, 2020
59
Niagara Falls NY
So I have all 4 new AC Delco lines... it's a V8 and the lines come apart somewhere under the airbox or washer fluid container or radiator overflow container---somewhere on the front right area... I also bought the Lisle tool to open up the clip to remove the lines from the trans & radiator.

What kinda price would anybody give to do the line install? I'm also building a new trans to 4l65e/4l70e/etc. specs to install, I'm undecided on the 4l79e/4l78e/Sonnax Smart drum, can someone give a great price on the swap? Thanks.
 

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