Sudden Overheating with New Water Pump
- Thread starter Buck36952
- Start date
Buck36952 said:
I'm in the city... if you want, I can meet up with you this weekend and try to give you a hand.
chief0299 said:
Offer is greatly appreciated. It's currently sitting at the stealership in Shawnee. I gave a complete write up of everything that's happened, so it will hopefully guide them in the right direction. I'll be sure to let you know results when I get it back. Funny how the most reliable vehicle can quickly climb to the top of your hit list when it doesn't cooperate with your wrenching attempts!
Told the wife that I was seriously considering selling off the work car, truck, and TB and just buy a 3/4 ton 4x4 and a family member's minivan. She was cool till she heard the minivan part
Thought she was going to end up driving it! 
Oh, BTW - results from the 1st mechanic:
1st road test - coolant temp at 230 without a/c running
2nd road test - coolant temp at 226 with a/c running
Said that normal operating temp (per GM) is 224 +/- 5. Seems odd since we all seem to agree that the temp gauge rides right at 210. Is that saying that the gauges on a TB aren't super accurate? I think I posted this before, but on the first road test, the temp rose to 237. At that temp, the fan engaged and brought the temp down to something like 207. I asked him about what temp to be concerned about and he stated that the computer will throw a code at 250-something....I think he said 254, but I'm not sure. I had a lot of numbers hanging out in my head.
meerschm
Member
- Aug 26, 2012
- 1,079
Buck36952 said:Offer is greatly appreciated. It's currently sitting at the stealership in Shawnee. I gave a complete write up of everything that's happened, so it will hopefully guide them in the right direction. I'll be sure to let you know results when I get it back. Funny how the most reliable vehicle can quickly climb to the top of your hit list when it doesn't cooperate with your wrenching attempts!
Told the wife that I was seriously considering selling off the work car, truck, and TB and just buy a 3/4 ton 4x4 and a family member's minivan. She was cool till she heard the minivan part
Oh, BTW - results from the 1st mechanic:
1st road test - coolant temp at 230 without a/c running
2nd road test - coolant temp at 226 with a/c running
Said that normal operating temp (per GM) is 224 +/- 5. Seems odd since we all seem to agree that the temp gauge rides right at 210. Is that saying that the gauges on a TB aren't super accurate? I think I posted this before, but on the first road test, the temp rose to 237. At that temp, the fan engaged and brought the temp down to something like 207. I asked him about what temp to be concerned about and he stated that the computer will throw a code at 250-something....I think he said 254, but I'm not sure. I had a lot of numbers hanging out in my head.
the temp guage on the dashboard is loosely connected to the actual temp reading. it displays nominal temp (around 210) over a wide range of actual temps. it says what the computer and software decides it should say.
Ok, I'm seriously about to lose my friggin mind. The dealership calls my wife and says that they are going to vat my radiator b/c a 3-way flush only cleans the block, core, and UPPER RADIATOR???????? Are you serious? Either someone is lying out their butt, or I got scammed for $65. I'm so sick of paying someone to perform a service b/c I don't have the tools or b/c they are a professional....only to get screwed over and have to pay someone else to do it!
Venting, I know, but I'm pissed. To make things even better....
The dealership will pull, vat, rod, and reinstall for $450. Ok, so I'm paying almost $500 and I get a 150K radiator out of the deal??
I call the previous mechanic to ask him what he thinks. He suggests what I'm thinking: Pay the diagnostic fee and do the work yourself. I get a call back from the mechanic about 5 minutes later and he says the dealership called him to ask an unrelated question....so he asks them about my car. He said that they really didn't know if the radiator was the issue, but since I changed everything else, it was the next logical place to look.
Moose had put up a link
Amazon.com: Sunbelt Radiators Inc. New Replacement Radiator OE Quality for BUICK RAINER: Automotive
for a radiator that cost $77. I notice that some radiators have the tranny cooler lines pluggin in on the passenger side, while others (this one included) have the cooler lines connecting across the bottom. I'd appreciate a little help identifying which one is correct.
Finally, I'm not seein much in terms of directions on replacing a radiator. I've done a few before and they were quite simple. Are there any dark secrets to doing this before I tell the dealership to shove off?
Venting, I know, but I'm pissed. To make things even better....
The dealership will pull, vat, rod, and reinstall for $450. Ok, so I'm paying almost $500 and I get a 150K radiator out of the deal??
I call the previous mechanic to ask him what he thinks. He suggests what I'm thinking: Pay the diagnostic fee and do the work yourself. I get a call back from the mechanic about 5 minutes later and he says the dealership called him to ask an unrelated question....so he asks them about my car. He said that they really didn't know if the radiator was the issue, but since I changed everything else, it was the next logical place to look.
Moose had put up a link
Amazon.com: Sunbelt Radiators Inc. New Replacement Radiator OE Quality for BUICK RAINER: Automotive
for a radiator that cost $77. I notice that some radiators have the tranny cooler lines pluggin in on the passenger side, while others (this one included) have the cooler lines connecting across the bottom. I'd appreciate a little help identifying which one is correct.
Finally, I'm not seein much in terms of directions on replacing a radiator. I've done a few before and they were quite simple. Are there any dark secrets to doing this before I tell the dealership to shove off?
meerschm
Member
- Aug 26, 2012
- 1,079
you need the one that matches your car. (have to go look) mine are on the bottom. I think they all are ,but don't quote me on that.
I have not changed the radiator, but tricky parts I would expect are getting hoses off and on (sounds like they have been off and on pretty recently so should not be a huge deal.)
and snaking the rad out between the fan clutch and a/c condenser. (I bet the book says to pull the fan clutch, fan and shroud out first. you may be able to avoid this)
other tricky part is getting the transmission lines disconnected and reconnected to the radiator. will drip a bit of fluid, but you don't want it to leak when you are done.
how do the tranny lines look overall?
I have not changed the radiator, but tricky parts I would expect are getting hoses off and on (sounds like they have been off and on pretty recently so should not be a huge deal.)
and snaking the rad out between the fan clutch and a/c condenser. (I bet the book says to pull the fan clutch, fan and shroud out first. you may be able to avoid this)
other tricky part is getting the transmission lines disconnected and reconnected to the radiator. will drip a bit of fluid, but you don't want it to leak when you are done.
how do the tranny lines look overall?
meerschm said:
Yeah, that's the problem with Amazon....sometimes they show a pic that isn't exactly right. If you assume it's correct, they say "It's just an example." But if you order with the assumption that it's an example, they say "There was a picture of it when you bought it."
Concerning the connections: You are quite correct sir. No stuck hoses here. They are all guaranteed to be free!
Tranny lines: They should be fine. I had it in for a check up not long ago. Had the tranny flushed and all was well. I've at least got that going for me. Of course, I'll have to check and see how much fluid I lose for the cooler when I replace the radiator. Other than that, I should be on the road to recovery.
My bank account..... not so much.. 
Oh sideline:
Price Check: Resurrecting a 150K radiator: $450 out the door.
Installing a new Radiator: $628
Radiator from GMpartsdirect: $145 (plus their diabolical shipping rate)
Will wait for folks to wade in with the details of what's involved in a radiator shop. My other question is if it's worth the extra $$ to go with an OEM radiator. Dealer claims that many aftermarkets are undersized, undercool, or simply leak like nobody's business. Thoughts on these two topics??? Thanks
Try 1-800-Radiator. I used them years back and I remember they had the best price around on radiators. Their local # is 734-946-0555 and theyre located in romulus Mi right near Metro Airport for anyone local.
meerschm
Member
- Aug 26, 2012
- 1,079
you can check out rock auto for several options.
some may not come with the connector the tranny cooler lines connect with. some will.
the os has some info on replacing the radiator (google up trailblazer radiator)
one thing to keep in mind is that the hood rests on a part you need to move.
looks like you do have to pull the fan, fan clutch, and fan shroud.
research the cooler line disconnect if you have not done it before.
some may not come with the connector the tranny cooler lines connect with. some will.
the os has some info on replacing the radiator (google up trailblazer radiator)
one thing to keep in mind is that the hood rests on a part you need to move.
looks like you do have to pull the fan, fan clutch, and fan shroud.
research the cooler line disconnect if you have not done it before.
Buck36952 said:Yeah, that's the problem with Amazon....sometimes they show a pic that isn't exactly right. If you assume it's correct, they say "It's just an example." But if you order with the assumption that it's an example, they say "There was a picture of it when you bought it."
Concerning the connections: You are quite correct sir. No stuck hoses here. They are all guaranteed to be free!
Tranny lines: They should be fine. I had it in for a check up not long ago. Had the tranny flushed and all was well. I've at least got that going for me. Of course, I'll have to check and see how much fluid I lose for the cooler when I replace the radiator. Other than that, I should be on the road to recovery.
Oh sideline:
Price Check: Resurrecting a 150K radiator: $450 out the door.
Installing a new Radiator: $628
Radiator from GMpartsdirect: $145 (plus their diabolical shipping rate)
Will wait for folks to wade in with the details of what's involved in a radiator shop. My other question is if it's worth the extra $$ to go with an OEM radiator. Dealer claims that many aftermarkets are undersized, undercool, or simply leak like nobody's business. Thoughts on these two topics??? Thanks
The trans cooler lines should be on the bottom of the radiator. I checked rockauto nad their prices ranged from $101 to $184. If the $77 one is a direct replacement (you should be able to contact the seller), I'd go for it as long as it has a warranty.
It's pretty straight forward. Pull the fan and clutch, pull the fan shroud. Unbolt two bolts on top, two bolts on bottom, drain the radiator, unplug the trans cooler lines and wiggle it out. Reverse for installation. It's a single core radiator and thankfully GM kept thing sfairly simple on the 4.2's.
Even if you spent $180 on a new radiator, changing it yourself will save you half to 2/3 the price of someone else doing it.
Also... there's a couple of places in the city that specialize in radiators. I'd check the yellow pages. You might find one in town or the city for a decent price and not have to pay shipping.
gmcman
Member
- Dec 12, 2011
- 4,656
Do you have the vehicle back in your possession?
This is what I would do. First, start the engine and disconnect the temp sensor, this will engage the fan. Does it engage fully?
If the radiator is plugged, what about the heater core? There is a cleaner from GM that works on the sludge from Dexcool......part # Prestone Heavy Duty Cooling System Cleaner, GM P/N 12346500...is this what you used?
You likely need to perform a reverse flush with the above mentioned chemical.....mainly because of the radiator is now an issue, the heater core just may be close as well.
You may not have removed all the Dexcol and now it's mixed with green, this is generally bad but I haven't heard it mess up a system this quick....never know.
Just tossing ideas out.
This is what I would do. First, start the engine and disconnect the temp sensor, this will engage the fan. Does it engage fully?
If the radiator is plugged, what about the heater core? There is a cleaner from GM that works on the sludge from Dexcool......part # Prestone Heavy Duty Cooling System Cleaner, GM P/N 12346500...is this what you used?
You likely need to perform a reverse flush with the above mentioned chemical.....mainly because of the radiator is now an issue, the heater core just may be close as well.
You may not have removed all the Dexcol and now it's mixed with green, this is generally bad but I haven't heard it mess up a system this quick....never know.
Just tossing ideas out.
Ok, many MANY thanks to all of the posters who have assisted in this. I really appreciate your expertice.
From what I'm seeing, tranny cooler lines are removed
1) pull back plastic collar
2) remove clip
3) push in and pull out
At least that's what I got from the old site.
As far as the radiator is concerned, there aren't any true feelings one way or another about quality of OEM vs. aftermarket, so go with the best price/warranty matchup. I guess it's time to pay the stealer and get my ride back.
On a bright note: Granted, I've paid three professionals to NOT fix my ride. But I've gotten three confirmations that my head gasket is NOT leaking. It's at least something!
So, here's what I plan to do. I'm going to put on my big boy pants and remove my fan clutch ...AGAIN. I'm going to pull my radiator and put a new one in (unsure of which one), and trust that this is the source of my problem. B/c, as sceptical as I am of dealerships, the tech I spoke with seemed competent and gave plausable explanations.
When I asked about what would cause the overheating isssues when I changed the clutch and water pump, I got a plausable answer. He said that the radiator was probably plugged already, but that the fan cluch (being locked up) was drawing in sufficient air flow to compensate for the lack of cooling ability in the radiator.
Could I be wrong in believing this? Yes. Do I have any better ideas at the moment? No.
Will keep everyone posted once I get the new radiator in. Please be patient...I don't know how long it may take to get my parts (if I go that route).
From what I'm seeing, tranny cooler lines are removed
1) pull back plastic collar
2) remove clip
3) push in and pull out
At least that's what I got from the old site.
As far as the radiator is concerned, there aren't any true feelings one way or another about quality of OEM vs. aftermarket, so go with the best price/warranty matchup. I guess it's time to pay the stealer and get my ride back.
On a bright note: Granted, I've paid three professionals to NOT fix my ride. But I've gotten three confirmations that my head gasket is NOT leaking. It's at least something!
So, here's what I plan to do. I'm going to put on my big boy pants and remove my fan clutch ...AGAIN. I'm going to pull my radiator and put a new one in (unsure of which one), and trust that this is the source of my problem. B/c, as sceptical as I am of dealerships, the tech I spoke with seemed competent and gave plausable explanations.
When I asked about what would cause the overheating isssues when I changed the clutch and water pump, I got a plausable answer. He said that the radiator was probably plugged already, but that the fan cluch (being locked up) was drawing in sufficient air flow to compensate for the lack of cooling ability in the radiator.
Could I be wrong in believing this? Yes. Do I have any better ideas at the moment? No.
Will keep everyone posted once I get the new radiator in. Please be patient...I don't know how long it may take to get my parts (if I go that route).
gmcman said:
I will definitely check out the temp sensor method you are suggesting b/c I want to ensure that this is the last time I have to remove the stupid fan for a LOOOOONG time! If the clutch is bad, I def want it out and changed.
To answer your question, I did just the Prestone cleaner. I believe it is the Prestone Super Cleaner (not the Prestone Super Flush.....never made it that far). I will say that I ran probably 10gal of distilled water through the car with running to temp and then draining before I ran my first cleaner. So, I did my due dilligence to remove all Dex prior to any chance of mixing. Following that, I went to the radiator shop where it was professionally flushed. I feel that every effort was made to avoid mixing the coolant types, but I see the validity to your point.
gmcman
Member
- Dec 12, 2011
- 4,656
Buck36952 said:On a bright note: Granted, I've paid three professionals to NOT fix my ride. But I've gotten three confirmations that my head gasket is NOT leaking. It's at least something!
That's a good thing for sure.
I like the older style stats where you could run without the stat to confirm coolant flow or drive in a pinch. This is just me but when it's all back together, I would personally go with an AC stat or maybe even a Stant. They are probably the same but with all the headaches you have had recently, I feel it's best to go with a name brand component if price isn't much of an issue.
Something else I forgot to mention.....I like to take a piece of cardboard and slide it in behind the radiator nearest the fan, to avoid any damage when you start cranking n the clutch. Has some weight to it and can ruin your day if handled the wrong way.
gmcman - good tip. Where were you when I put my elbow in the condensor to my work car??? I just recently had to replace an engine due to a mechanic not doing mechanical things right. Those 3800 series 2 engines are great, but I hope the designer of that #$%#@ plastic upper intake manifold got fired b/c it ruins the whole design. It failed and sucked coolant. I was ignorant at that time as to how to fix it, so I took it in on a recommendation. It was actually the guys workers, but it didn't get fixed right. After 3 or 4 return trips for continuing to sip antifreeze....I got my rod knock.
My dad ended up having a spare engine (another long story), so he brought it up from Tennessee and we put it in together w/ my father-in-law. Right at the end, as we're getting ready to drop in the radiator, I notice that my elbow has brushed the condensor and ALL the fins in that area are just layed right over. I like the idea of the cardboard to protect these fragile fins!
Parts are at home. Picked them up last night from the store...although I forgot the fan clutch tool
I'll get on it tonight, providing my bum knee holds up. I decided to go aftermarket for the radiator b/c they ALL have plastic and it's definitely easier to do warranty work. ...well, that and the fact that gmpartsdirect STILL hasn't contacted me back. In all, you really can't argue w/ a lifetime warranty from a local store.
Will post my update when work is complete.
My dad ended up having a spare engine (another long story), so he brought it up from Tennessee and we put it in together w/ my father-in-law. Right at the end, as we're getting ready to drop in the radiator, I notice that my elbow has brushed the condensor and ALL the fins in that area are just layed right over. I like the idea of the cardboard to protect these fragile fins!
Parts are at home. Picked them up last night from the store...although I forgot the fan clutch tool
I'll get on it tonight, providing my bum knee holds up. I decided to go aftermarket for the radiator b/c they ALL have plastic and it's definitely easier to do warranty work. ...well, that and the fact that gmpartsdirect STILL hasn't contacted me back. In all, you really can't argue w/ a lifetime warranty from a local store.Will post my update when work is complete.
gmcman
Member
- Dec 12, 2011
- 4,656
I won't be satisfied until you show me a pic or at least confirm you have the serpentine belt running the correct way. 
Even though it appears to be a restricted cooling system...why did this happen all of a sudden?
I was under my hood tonight and grabbed the upper hose and it was indeed firm, keep in mind it's under pressure. I cannot imagine it's under any more pressure than yours and if so not by much since the cap vents at 15 PSI.
Did you pull the ECT connector yet and see if the fan fully engages?? Sorry but we need updates.
Even though it appears to be a restricted cooling system...why did this happen all of a sudden?I was under my hood tonight and grabbed the upper hose and it was indeed firm, keep in mind it's under pressure. I cannot imagine it's under any more pressure than yours and if so not by much since the cap vents at 15 PSI.
Did you pull the ECT connector yet and see if the fan fully engages?? Sorry but we need updates.
Attachments
Wait a minute.... Is THAT what it's supposed to look like???
Yes, that is how I have my belt routed. I was able to pull the radiator this weekend. Similar to the engineer who designed the plastic plenum for the 3800 series 2, I hope the individual responsible for adding the "quick connect" clips for the tranny lines was sacked. That is, hands down, the MOST HORRIBLE IDEA EVER!!!! Well, possibly not worse than the plastic plenum thingy.... but you get my point. I got the "Special Tool" at the parts store...which didn't work. I personally suggest saving the money and gettting a very small screwdriver to carefully remove the pins. I had no issues by doing it this way. So, I get the clips out, but the tranny line closest to the passenger side would never come loose. I had to disconnect the line back up underneath the air filter, pull the line WITH the radiator, and then remove the line after the fact. Unfortunately, installation wasn't any easier. I believe I saw a post where is was recommended to NOT remove the fitting for the tranny cooler. This recommendation warrants a little explanation. I was unable to insert the tranny line, so I did remove the fitting to insert the flared tranny line. At this point, it is HIGHLY unlikely that you will be able to start threading your fitting. I had to actually pop the radiator into place with the rubber mount (center of vehicle) securing it there to get propper alignment. At this point, I was able to thread my fitting. Perhaps the entire issue was being out of square, but this is what I resorted to and found success with.
I have not opened my old radiator yet to see what my tubes look like, but I was very pleased on my test drive. I had a/c blasting so hard I was uncomfortably cold and I never did get one hair above 210.
Price Recap: Dealership price to recondition radiator: $450
Dealership price to replace radiator: $630
My price: Diagnostic Dealership fee (for doing my own work) $110
Radiator: $180
Was the radiator a pain in the butt to do? Yeah. Was it worth saving $150 by doing it myself? Absolutely! As an added bonus, I have a new radiator rather than a reconditioned one. Again, thanks to EVERYONE on the forum for their contributions of experience, knowledge, and good wishes. There is always a great sense of accomplishment when you're able to put a vehicle back on the road using your own wrenches!
Yes, that is how I have my belt routed. I was able to pull the radiator this weekend. Similar to the engineer who designed the plastic plenum for the 3800 series 2, I hope the individual responsible for adding the "quick connect" clips for the tranny lines was sacked. That is, hands down, the MOST HORRIBLE IDEA EVER!!!! Well, possibly not worse than the plastic plenum thingy.... but you get my point. I got the "Special Tool" at the parts store...which didn't work. I personally suggest saving the money and gettting a very small screwdriver to carefully remove the pins. I had no issues by doing it this way. So, I get the clips out, but the tranny line closest to the passenger side would never come loose. I had to disconnect the line back up underneath the air filter, pull the line WITH the radiator, and then remove the line after the fact. Unfortunately, installation wasn't any easier. I believe I saw a post where is was recommended to NOT remove the fitting for the tranny cooler. This recommendation warrants a little explanation. I was unable to insert the tranny line, so I did remove the fitting to insert the flared tranny line. At this point, it is HIGHLY unlikely that you will be able to start threading your fitting. I had to actually pop the radiator into place with the rubber mount (center of vehicle) securing it there to get propper alignment. At this point, I was able to thread my fitting. Perhaps the entire issue was being out of square, but this is what I resorted to and found success with.
I have not opened my old radiator yet to see what my tubes look like, but I was very pleased on my test drive. I had a/c blasting so hard I was uncomfortably cold and I never did get one hair above 210.
Price Recap: Dealership price to recondition radiator: $450
Dealership price to replace radiator: $630
My price: Diagnostic Dealership fee (for doing my own work) $110
Radiator: $180
Was the radiator a pain in the butt to do? Yeah. Was it worth saving $150 by doing it myself? Absolutely! As an added bonus, I have a new radiator rather than a reconditioned one. Again, thanks to EVERYONE on the forum for their contributions of experience, knowledge, and good wishes. There is always a great sense of accomplishment when you're able to put a vehicle back on the road using your own wrenches!
Agreed. I know they aren't considering ease of repair when they design these things, but they really didn't do us any favors either.
Chief - All seems well now. It runs just a hair to the left of 210, so I'm very happy. It's funny that I spent all that time hoping it wasn't the radiator b/c I didn't want to drop another $200. So I ended up spending $255 to find out that I needed to do the radiator.
Unfortunately, I reinjured/aggrevated my knee while working on it. So, I was fortunate enough to spend the next day at the VA hospital getting tended to! Fix one thing and another will break. The story of my life!
Thanks to all for the great support and I'm ready to eat some crow for discounting all those who suggested the radiator
Unfortunately, I reinjured/aggrevated my knee while working on it. So, I was fortunate enough to spend the next day at the VA hospital getting tended to! Fix one thing and another will break. The story of my life!
Thanks to all for the great support and I'm ready to eat some crow for discounting all those who suggested the radiator
Glad to hear it's running good. You definitely saved yourself some coin. The VA... you go to the one in OKC? I'm up there pretty regularly. Even though the waits are a little long, it's the nicest one out of the 4 I've been to. No worries on eating crow. At least not with me. I'm just happy to help.
Mooseman
Moderator
Hey, I'll trade the old flare nuts for those quick disconnects anytime. I can't tell you how many times I either stripped those damned nuts, broke the line because it was rusted solid to the nut or both!
Glad you got it fixed. Now get yourself fixed
Glad you got it fixed. Now get yourself fixed
chief0299 said:
Yeah, I head to the OKC branch. I was able to get in the the ER just fine, but getting them to respond back for a follow up hasn't generated much in terms of results. Just hoping that it doesn't require surgery again. Of course, recovery couldn't possibly be any worse than it was when I was active. One day off, then back to work
Buck36952 said:
I've never had to go to the ER there, just visit the docs for regular appts and go to the urgent care clinic. Are you OEF/OIF? They seem to be able tp ush us through a little faster. Not sure why.
chief0299 said:
Yeah, I was OEF, Noble Eagle, etc. Got paid to play on the world's largest beaches.......just a few hundred miles too far from the water's edge!
The VA just doesn't ever seem to make much sense to me. You can hit Urgent Care or Emergency, but I'm working on my third day of waiting for them to call me back for a routine appointment. Go figure When were you in?
Buck36952 said:Yeah, I was OEF, Noble Eagle, etc. Got paid to play on the world's largest beaches.......just a few hundred miles too far from the water's edge!
When were you in?
Army guard from 96-99
Active duty Air Force from 99-05
Air Force Reserves from 05-11
I'm OSW, ONW, OEF, ONE, OIF... Too many to list.
My first achievement medal was for 9/11. Generated my aircraft and was off the ground in less than hour. The medal paperwork says Operation Infinite Justice on it.
LOL on the distance from the water. Sometimes it was a blessing. While I was in Qatar, it was hot as shit AND humid as shit! At night, you could see the humidity actually roll around in the air. It looked like something out of poltergeist. I would've easily traded it to go back to PSAB.
Wooluf1952
Member
Buck36952 said:Yeah, I was OEF, Noble Eagle, etc. Got paid to play on the world's largest beaches.......just a few hundred miles too far from the water's edge!
When were you in?
Thank you for your service.
chief0299 said:
Thank you for your service.
