SOMETHING Just blew...

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Drove to work today, SES light came on. Just had new exhaust manifold put on last week, and SES light came on because they forgot to put my MAF sensor back into the cold air intake. No big deal right. Well my SES light came on today, so I thought it might be the MAF sensor again. It was fine so I just drove along. Well, coming home tonight from work, driving 70 on the turnpike, I went to downshift to pass some cars and go up a hill, and the RPM's just soar way up and I get virtually no response at all. Like it was in neutral and you hit the gas when driving. But as I throttled in a bit more, the torque converter would lock up and propel me forward, albeit seemingly in 2nd gear, but once I let off the throttle, the RPM's went back down to normal, but in order to keep the truck moving until I could pull off, the RPM's were soaring in order to get something in the drivetrain moving.

So I pull off, and I smell a burning smell, which I kinda thought might just be the new exhaust manifold breaking in. No smoke or fluid leaks and the engine was idling perfectly normal. Only thing I noticed was the belt tensioner assembly was wiggling a bit as the serpentine belt spun while in idle. (Not sure if it is normal for it to pivot in place slightly as the belt runs or not).

Anyway, I turn the truck off, then on again, engine is perfectly fine. I shift into D and drive home, same problem going on. So I come to a stop sign, and I press the gas, and the drivetrain engages normally, but it won't upshift. I had to hit the throttle til about 5k RPM's for the torque converter to lock up and it finally shifted, a very harsh shift. While I'm driving, I can hear metallic grinding noise, very very faintly coming from below me.

When I pull into my driveway, I shift down into 3rd, 2nd, 1st. The initial shift down from D into 3 required more than normal effort. Then I put it in 1st then manually shifted into 2nd as I got going a little bit, and a very rough shift took place, and it was shifting immediately instead of waiting to sync itself like normal. Almost felt like it was shifting as if it were in Low Range. Neutral worked normally, as did reverse and park.

So, what's the prognosis? Fried transmission? Taking it to a shop in the morning.
 

STLtrailbSS

Member
Dec 4, 2011
1,617
Sounds like my first 4l70 failure,Had the same issue I would slam it and would lock but could not connect at regular driving speed they replaced so much crap I had a 2 page warranty work receipt.
 

STLtrailbSS

Member
Dec 4, 2011
1,617
They rebuilt I had no say because it was warranty work, Im building it in time with the cam and bolt ons going in soon. As for buying a new truck what would you get the TB is such a great all purpose really dont make em like they used to now its a traverse :puke:
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
I think anything more than $2k, new tranny + install and I will get rid of it.

So quality inexpensive factory replacement suggestions? Preferably ones that have been reengineered to include better lubrication and cooling.
 

STLtrailbSS

Member
Dec 4, 2011
1,617
You can pick up a reman off ebay for about $900 the only actual Upgraded ( I Know of) is a built "Street" from finish line transmissions but they are about $1600 and thats more of a ConeKillerX upgrade for some engine power adders not a DD.
Reman 900
throw on a PCM tranny cooler $200
Install ????
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
How many miles on it?

I'd be tempted to just pick up a low miles used transmission, install the "code buster" kit I've mentioned on here before (as it also addresses some other weak points), and roll with that.
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
113,000 miles.

Shift firmness #2 tuned by PCM4less. Yes, a PCM tranny cooler is on the budget for the next one.
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
How confident are you with the vehicle, less the current tranny "issue"?

Have to agree to getting it rebuilt. Or gambling on a used tranny, rebuilt or not.

As far as finances go, if I were halfway through payments I might let it go knowing I may be able to negotiate the total $loss. $2k for a rebuild sucks but it won't force me to rid the thing. Only you know, or hopefully have an idea, of the service and maintenance history.
Even just dropping the thing will cost you$$. Maybe keep it for 9-12mo.s after the repair and think of the money spent as part of the "service" history. At least with a working transmission you should get more for it a year from now than without one tomorrow.
When you don't want to get in and drive it to wherever anymore, that's when I say get rid of it. I spent $1400 on a gear and syncro on the wife's car. Had same questions, and glad I did the repair!
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Playsinsnow said:
How confident are you with the vehicle, less the current tranny "issue"?

Have to agree to getting it rebuilt. Or gambling on a used tranny, rebuilt or not.

As far as finances go, if I were halfway through payments I might let it go knowing I may be able to negotiate the total $loss. $2k for a rebuild sucks but it won't force me to rid the thing. Only you know, or hopefully have an idea, of the service and maintenance history.
Even just dropping the thing will cost you$$. Maybe keep it for 9-12mo.s after the repair and think of the money spent as part of the "service" history. At least with a working transmission you should get more for it a year from now than without one tomorrow.
When you don't want to get in and drive it to wherever anymore, that's when I say get rid of it. I spent $1400 on a gear and syncro on the wife's car. Had same questions, and glad I did the repair!


Yeah I'm leaning towards a rebuild. The truck overall is in great shape, engine just likes to stay clean, but that's easy maintenance. It's been paid off, and I have faith in the engine at least until 200k miles. I think spending to get it fixed would be the right idea. Just sucks, nobody plans for this stuff, but that money was being used towards other things D:

Do OEM style 4L70e's work with the 4.2L?
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
DenaliHD66 said:
Would installing a finned oil pan help or should I just spring for the tranny cooler?

I would get a tranny cooler. Either the largest one you can find or adding another one to the existing cooler lines (assuming it's still there). Few threads out there tranny coolers.
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Got estimate from tranny shop. $1600 for complete rebuild. $600 to install new transmission that I buy, plus $200 for new lines.


If I go the cheaper route and get a finned oil pan, won't it be able to hold more fluid to keep it slightly cooler?
 

STLtrailbSS

Member
Dec 4, 2011
1,617
Run stock pan and add a $17 Efan off eBay to the cooler. Yield better results
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Did anyone check out the ebay link of the transmission I posted? Does it seem like a viable one better than stock? What are the pros/cons to rebuilding my current tranny by the way?
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
Assuming they have similar prices and equal warranties then it seems like it would be better to go with the new. However! This brings up the question about how to install it. Are you gonna do it or have a shop do it? Will the shop warranty the labor aside from the tranny itself? Will they accidentally damage it? Sometimes it's better to go with a rebuild. Then if something goes wrong you have someone to blame.
 

jimmyjam

Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,634
A "new" transmission is rare. The eBay link is for a rebuild. So given the choice I'd rather rebuild mine locally because the eBay warranty will cost you removal/reinstall cost plus freight. That could be close to a grand
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
It costs 60 bucks for a trans cooler and about an hour to install. Be a good move with the new one. I doubt you get enough airflow over the trans pan to make a difference.

Your link is to someone with ZERO reviews. I sure would not trust them.

Why don't you get a few more quotes from other places? The prices are not ridiculous, but I see many better around here. Seems like $1000 gets a standard rebuild around me generally. Maybe another shop will give you a better deal.

A quick search found these...seems worth investigating.

700R4/4L60 Transmission

700R4 / 4L60 REBUILT TRANSMISSIONS
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
HARDTRAILZ said:
It costs 60 bucks for a trans cooler and about an hour to install. Be a good move with the new one.

We already have a cooler built into the radiator. It works well. Why some of you think we need another one is beyond me.:squint:
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
CaptainXL said:
We already have a cooler built into the radiator. It works well. Why some of you think we need another one is beyond me.:squint:

Because the number one cause of trans failure is heat and it is cheap insurance. I have a scangauge and watch my lifted 06 temps and the stock 07's temps get much higher than I want so I do not think the stock one works so well. Our motors like to run hotter and thus it keeps the trans fluid from cooling as much as many other vehicles.

There is virtually no downfall and minumum cost, why you would not want to protect the transmission is beyond me:frown::confused:
 

jonbo2002

Member
Sep 27, 2012
213
CaptainXL said:
We already have a cooler built into the radiator. It works well. Why some of you think we need another one is beyond me.:squint:

Factory cooler works great if you're just a daily driver and/or mild hauler, but if you do any heavy towing, offroading or are the heavy on the pedal type driver. An aftermarket cooler is a logical choice to help with the extra demands from heavier loads. Why do you think HD and SD pickups come with extra coolers for the trans? Because they are designed for towing heavy loads all the time.:thumbsup:
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Think I'm going to opt for the rebuild since I don't wanna deal with buying something and having it shipped and not warranty'd... calling around for price quotes now.
 

CaptainXL

Member
Dec 4, 2011
2,445
HARDTRAILZ said:
Because the number one cause of trans failure is heat and it is cheap insurance. I have a scangauge and watch my lifted 06 temps and the stock 07's temps get much higher than I want so I do not think the stock one works so well. Our motors like to run hotter and thus it keeps the trans fluid from cooling as much as many other vehicles.

They is virtually no downfall and minumum cost, why you would not want to protect the transmission is beyond me:frown::confused:

Do what you want. But don't go spreading the gospel stating that a "secondary cooler will fix all" ....because it won't. Not to mention the hazards of improper installation and multiple points of failure. If the tranny cooler is improperly installed at the lines and leaks then you can kiss the transmission goodbye. You were saying something about downfall?

That's like saying that synthetic oil will extend the life of your engine because it keeps the engine cooler. Well frankly there is no proof of that as well.

All a second tranny cooler is going to do is prolong transmission warmup. Efficiency will suffer. Especially in the winter. Um I live in the north so no thanks, my engine has a hard enough time warming up as it is at 20 degrees.

Just change the fluid and filter regularly. A cooler isn't going to extend the drain intervals. Changing it every 30K is a much better idea.

And just because I don't have a second cooler doesn't mean I fail at preventative maintenance wiseguy:crazy:.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
Ummm

I'm speaking as a guy who has no auxiliary trans cooler and has 180k miles here...so take it as you will.

A properly installed auxiliary trans cooler is never going to be a bad thing. Keeping transmission temperatures lower (within spec) is always a good thing. If you live in a warmer climate, or tow a lot, then yes, an extra cooler is a good idea. I've seen reports of excessively high transmission temperatures when towing for longer periods of time. If you don't (like me) then it isn't really necessary, but it still doesn't hurt.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the ideal spot for a trans cooler is before the factory cooler. This rids extra heat before the factory in-radiator cooler, which reduces the load on the already almost too small radiator we have. It also has the side effect of not letting the transmission get too cold in the winter either.

If your engine is having problems warming up at 20 degrees then I think you have other issues going on. Mine has no problem at all, and I even have the original thermostat still believe it or not. A trans cooler shouldn't make your engine warm up slower in the winter (or at least not noticeably).

30k drain intervals are also much more often than the manual states is necessary. Not going to hurt anything by doing it, but it is a little wasteful.

BTW, I don't know anyone who has really claimed that synthetic makes your engine run cooler as that isn't the purpose of it in the first place...

If you're trying to prolong the life of the transmission there are a few things that you can do to the 4L60E that will help that - and subsequently can also help slightly reduce heat as well. That's the route I took as I wanted to strengthen some known weak spots. So far so good, on both 4L60E transmissions I have, one of which I brought back from the edge of self-destruction and has been going strong for several thousand miles since.
 

jonbo2002

Member
Sep 27, 2012
213
Michigander here to and have never had problems warming up, except when my stat went bad. It usually takes me less then 5 miles to get up to operating temp in single digits. I too don't have a trans cooler as of now, but I am fully stock and only towed me 30' travel trailer up north once so there wasn't a need. I will be moving up to the Traverse City area hopefully in the next couple of months and will be lifting the TB as well as setting it up as more of an offroad truck for trailriding and the heavier winter season then what I see in the metro Detroit area, but an added cooler will be in the mix of mods I will be doing. Noone has said a trans cooler is the saving glory for us, as I said before if you are doing alot of heavy towing, offroading or just all together hard driving then it is a good idea. Never said you have to get one!
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
CaptainXL said:
Do what you want. But don't go spreading the gospel stating that a "secondary cooler will fix all" ....because it won't. Not to mention the hazards of improper installation and multiple points of failure. If the tranny cooler is improperly installed at the lines and leaks then you can kiss the transmission goodbye.

Please don't quote things I never said. Secondary cooler is not a fix all. It is a solid addition to a new transmission he needs.

There are plenty of hazards with the standard trans installation,far more benefit than risk in adding an additional cooler while they are installing the new or rebuilt trans.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Fwiw... the OP and I live in similar climate. I have zero issues in warm up no matter what temp even with a large cooler. They make secondary coolers w built-in bypasses for cooler climates.
 

jonbo2002

Member
Sep 27, 2012
213
Sparky said:
How many miles on it?

I'd be tempted to just pick up a low miles used transmission, install the "code buster" kit I've mentioned on here before (as it also addresses some other weak points), and roll with that.

oh and Sparky, thanks for the link to the eBay seller, it has been added to my want list once I move!!! Great deal and easy to do.:thumbsup:
 

gmcman

Member
Dec 12, 2011
4,660
Heat is the #1 killer for a tranny, an aux cooler should go after the factory cooler instead of before, as this way what you cool off doesn't warm right back up. I believe you can get a bypass for the aux cooler until the tranny reaches normal temp, especially in cold climates.

Denali, it's a moot point now but I'm curious as to why you didn't pull over and check the fluid level when it started acting up? Could have been a low fluid issue and the high RPM could have provided enough pressure to engage a gear. IF that was the case the high RPM just ended up frying the partially engaged clutches and the high stress from high-rpm engagement. Just a hunch, maybe not the culprit but if the tranny starts acting up I think it's good practice to start with a fluid level check.

Reason I state this is I had a TH 350 trans go low on fluid and it wouldn't do anything until I revved it up to at least 3-4K, at part throttle it was like I was in neutral.

It seems that you have already made up your mind to keep it, I would also so I would get a trans that is more than what you need. I would also look into some aftermarket torque converters like an Edge but can get pricey. Looks like you are into it at least $1600 so if you stretched that budget $6-700 you could have a trans capable of handling 500 HP and a great towing trans. Just some options. Really depends on how long you plan on keeping it....tough call.
 

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gmcman

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Dec 12, 2011
4,660

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Mine lasted 113k, and I revved those gears up to the redline ALL the time. I manually ran in 1st and 2nd gear a lot just listening to that open air system (intake/exhaust) purr like a jet engine in the cold winter months. If anything, I'll opt for a finned oil pan which will add 2 quarts and keep things a bit cooler. I don't really want to add an external tranny cooler simply because I don't do any towing and run empty loads almost all the time.


So anywho, for a complete rebuild, and new OEM cooler lines installed, what sounds like a reasonable price? Day off tomorrow--- gonna call around the area.
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
DenaliHD66 said:
Mine lasted 113k, and I revved those gears up to the redline ALL the time. I manually ran in 1st and 2nd gear a lot just listening to that open air system (intake/exhaust) purr like a jet engine in the cold winter months. If anything, I'll opt for a finned oil pan which will add 2 quarts and keep things a bit cooler. I don't really want to add an external tranny cooler simply because I don't do any towing and run empty loads almost all the time.


So anywho, for a complete rebuild, and new OEM cooler lines installed, what sounds like a reasonable price? Day off tomorrow--- gonna call around the area.

After having tranny work done, I am more concerned who lays their paws on my ride than cost. I went with a cheap and friend referred shop just to find out they overfilled my diff case in a 5spd mazda. I found this out because it smelled like gear lube in the garage, stronger the next day. Come to find out the drain plug was loose enough to turn with a 3yr olds hands. I then went to check how low it was and it gushes out! They dry filled it on the bench!

I would say someone eager to show you a few testimonials is the way to go. If they are eager for your business then I might have some reservations.

Complete rebuild and install... under $2500 depending on cost of the unit. The labor will get ya. What I feel is "reasonable". Find a quote with a firm hour count on the job
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
I am pretty sure I was quoted $1600 + $200 for lines at this one shop.

MAYBE I SHOULD JUST TAKE IT TO WALMART SO THEY CAN PRICE MATCH THAT.
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
DenaliHD66 said:
I am pretty sure I was quoted $1600 + $200 for lines at this one shop.

MAYBE I SHOULD JUST TAKE IT TO WALMART SO THEY CAN PRICE MATCH THAT.

:rotfl:

That's not bad at all. I've heard stories of 1200 to almost 3k for tranny's. Only problem with Mal-Wart is that they may take 3 weeks to complete it and still charge you 7 hours labor! I would bring it to the "cleanest" looking shop that quotes you a fair price. Some transmission shops are greaseholes with dirtballs running it. Standards man. Not to say they won't get the job done
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
$1000-1500 .


I wouldn't let Walmart install my battery, definitely not a transmission.
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Ah thought that sarcasm would be better received. There is a very nice shop but its 25 miles away and I can't drive it that far unless they offer to tow it.
 

Playsinsnow

Member
Nov 17, 2012
9,727
Do you have a truck to use if you rented a trailer to haul it yourself? Could be cheaper. I know some shops have a company they use and they just roll it into your bill saving you a little hassle. 25mi.s close to $70-100 here. Or join AAA.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Transmission work deserves a good shop...hell if its 100 miles away and 150 dollar tow...factor that in to the prices you get and pick the best one you can for the money you can afford.


--I don't give a shit about the cleanliness of the shop. Some of the best mechanic's I know look like they shower in oil, but their work is second to none because their focus is on the job, not putting the dirty towel in the bucket and putting the lid on so no one can see it. I would put a lot more emphasis on talking to the shop owner and if possible, the actual guy that will do the work. If they know what they are doing and will stand behind their work...who cares if they work in filth.
 

DenaliHD66

Original poster
Member
Dec 4, 2011
597
Okay well my usual shop quoted me $2500.

This is for a new Jasper transmission $1900 with 7year/100,000 warranty.
Rest of the charges will include labor and replacing the oil cooler and flushing the lines.


Everyone else who wants to do a rebuild doesn't want to warranty the work. A local parts shop wanted $725 for a tranny with 100k miles on it and only a 90 day warranty.

The Jasper transmissions are much improved over OEM. I think I'll just opt for that, put my truck up for sale and see if anyone wants to buy it at my asking price, otherwise I'll just keep on driving it.
 

DDonnie

Member
Mar 26, 2012
2,631
DenaliHD66 said:
Okay well my usual shop quoted me $2500.

This is for a new Jasper transmission $1900 with 7year/100,000 warranty.
Rest of the charges will include labor and replacing the oil cooler and flushing the lines.


Everyone else who wants to do a rebuild doesn't want to warranty the work. A local parts shop wanted $725 for a tranny with 100k miles on it and only a 90 day warranty.

The Jasper transmissions are much improved over OEM. I think I'll just opt for that, put my truck up for sale and see if anyone wants to buy it at my asking price, otherwise I'll just keep on driving it.

I think that's your best bet, get the one with the warranty.
 

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