Saab 9-7X AWD issue

[SaabScott]

For those of you that have helped in the past, thank you.

I now have some more info ...

1) rear diff fluid was NOT changed as the seller said they did (which also means they didn't put in the additive) - I had this done today
2) transfer case fluid was changed 2 weeks ago ... fluid looked good, didn't need to be changed
3) discovered that the transfer case has in fact been opened at some point in recent history (bolts have evidence of being removed and there is silicon around the seam of the transfer case)

The problem I was having with the rear end still happens: turn the steering to half or more, either in forward or reverse, and the inside rear wheel grabs.

New diagnosis today: with the truck on the hoist, transmission in neutral, if you turn one of the rear wheels, all 4 wheels turn ...


Thoughts?

 

[The_Roadie]

Still think it's grabby TC clutches. The natural state should only send 5% of the torque forward. You're getting too much. Prove it by yanking the front driveshaft.

 

[TequilaWarrior]

For those of you that have helped in the past, thank you.

I now have some more info ...

1) rear diff fluid was NOT changed as the seller said they did (which also means they didn't put in the additive) - I had this done today
2) transfer case fluid was changed 2 weeks ago ... fluid looked good, didn't need to be changed
3) discovered that the transfer case has in fact been opened at some point in recent history (bolts have evidence of being removed and there is silicon around the seam of the transfer case)

The problem I was having with the rear end still happens: turn the steering to half or more, either in forward or reverse, and the inside rear wheel grabs.

New diagnosis today: with the truck on the hoist, transmission in neutral, if you turn one of the rear wheels, all 4 wheels turn ...


Thoughts?

Based on your mileage you likely have the same issue I had - grabby TC clutches - which the roadie has pointed out. Mine was only cured after 3 TC fluid changes a total of probably 1,000 miles or so between the 3 changes. My mechanic's statement was: "I've never seen one stuck that bad." There's always a first for everything. Your Tcase is the same as an Olds Bravada (which I have). Puts some miles on it and change the fluid again. The TSB says to change the fluid, drive a little bit, find a parking lot and do figure 8's, then change the fluid. My mechanic followed the TSB to no effect - hence the 3rd fluid change after 1,000 miles.

It also does sound like your rear diff may not be working correctly. You may need to give the new fluid time to get into all the places in needs to to unstick the rear diff.

 

[The_Roadie]

New diagnosis today: with the truck on the hoist, transmission in neutral, if you turn one of the rear wheels, all 4 wheels turn ...

I forgot to pick up on this detail. WHICH WAY do each of the tires turn? In the rear, even with a frozen/grabby transfer case, if you turn one rear tire, the opposite side should turn backwards. If it's trying to turn in the same direction, then your rear diff is jammed and locked up and you need to remove the rear cover and get in there, too.

 

[SaabScott]

Based on your mileage you likely have the same issue I had - grabby TC clutches - which the roadie has pointed out. Mine was only cured after 3 TC fluid changes a total of probably 1,000 miles or so between the 3 changes. My mechanic's statement was: "I've never seen one stuck that bad." There's always a first for everything. Your Tcase is the same as an Olds Bravada (which I have). Puts some miles on it and change the fluid again. The TSB says to change the fluid, drive a little bit, find a parking lot and do figure 8's, then change the fluid. My mechanic followed the TSB to no effect - hence the 3rd fluid change after 1,000 miles.

It also does sound like your rear diff may not be working correctly. You may need to give the new fluid time to get into all the places in needs to to unstick the rear diff.

3 fluid changes! Wow!

When the TC fluid was changed the first time, the comment was that it looked good/new. I had it changed before a drive from Mississauga to Albany, pretty close to 1,000 miles.
I'll get some more fluid and have it changed again ... if that is in fact the problem, changing the fluid is a really cheap fix.


When I have that done, I'll check the direction the wheels are moving when one is turned ... I want to say they were all going in the same direction, but I can't be 100% sure of that.


Does anyone have any recommendations for a really good 4x4 shop in the Mississauga / Toronto area? I'd really like to have an expert assess this while I still have the seller on the hook for getting it working.


Thanks once more for your help to this point. It is great to experience this level of community feel, especially when I have an odd-ball 360 platform.

 

[TequilaWarrior]

3 fluid changes! Wow!

When the TC fluid was changed the first time, the comment was that it looked good/new. I had it changed before a drive from Mississauga to Albany, pretty close to 1,000 miles.
I'll get some more fluid and have it changed again ... if that is in fact the problem, changing the fluid is a really cheap fix.


When I have that done, I'll check the direction the wheels are moving when one is turned ... I want to say they were all going in the same direction, but I can't be 100% sure of that.


Does anyone have any recommendations for a really good 4x4 shop in the Mississauga / Toronto area? I'd really like to have an expert assess this while I still have the seller on the hook for getting it working.


Thanks once more for your help to this point. It is great to experience this level of community feel, especially when I have an odd-ball 360 platform.

Just make absolutely sure you're using the right fluid for the Tcase. Auto-Trac II is the only correct fluid for our Tcase. Some people make the mistake of pouring ATF in or worse yet diff fluid.
Also, make absolutely sure you're using the right diff fluid. I have no experience with the limited slip, mine's a locker (that I haven't changed the fluid in yet). But I do know that with the wrong rear diff fluid you'll have problems.

I bought my Olds used from a Ford Dealership - big mistake. I complained about the AWD being seized - they only skimmed the "Crow Hop" TSB and changed the TCase fluid with godknowswhat. That was fluid change number 1 - it went back two more times before the tcase freed up and on the third trip back I told them to leave the empty bottles in the car or I wouldn't take the car, finally AutoTrac II. They also burnt the brakes all to hell and warped the rotors during the first tcase change, so they had to turn brand new rotors (less than 100 miles on them) and threw a new set of pads on it. The rotors warped on the way home. When I took it back to complain they said something about the lathe not turning them true so they'll use the "on car" lathe and turn them again - that's right, 2 turnings of the rotors in less than 1000 miles and I rewarped them right after my dealer warranty ran out. When I complained about the temp gauge not coming up to the right temp they used a noncontact thermometer and informed me the head reads the right temp and the thermostat must be open. I changed the tstat myself 2 months later and my mileage went up by 2 MPG. They put a new transmission line in before I picked the car up the final time - they didn't snap the connector in all the way and 2 weeks later the line came out of the tranny while on the way to my company's christmas party at 8 at night on a very dark and very empty road. Thanks to a friend of mine the tranny line was fixed the next day and I'll never return to that dealer for anything ever again.

And you don't have an odd-ball platform. Saabs share the body shell/windows of the Buick and the Olds. Saab and Olds share the same Tcase and most of the other running gear is identical. Olds/Saab options are very similar. In fact, both of my Bravadas are built with virtually identical options to a Saab with the exception of the center console ignition which is only available in a Saab and possibly the radio.
I prefer AWD for my wife - I ~had~ a 4WD that didn't have much of a chance with her behind the wheel - something about having to turn a dial to get traction just didn't sink in. And frankly, I'm nearly shocked at how good the Olds does in some pretty slippery stuff.

Enjoy your oddball Saab - the kinks will get worked out.

 

[SaabScott]

The TC fluid was Auto-Trac II, purchased by myself directly from a Chevy Parts counter (I know the Parts Manager, he's an old Saab Parts Manager).

I'll get a fresh batch, maybe 2 the next time I am there. It isn't really that expensive and for what it's worth, fluids are one thing I will keep up on with this truck, especially once I have everything sorted out.

The LSD uses 75W90 Synthetic gear oil plus an additive (also purchased directly from GM). That has "only" been changed once (last night) with the additive in, not twice as I had been hoping for (since it wasn't done as I was told before taking possession of the truck).


Thanks for the comments regarding the platform. To be frank, there has been a better response from the GM community than there is from the Saab community regarding this truck. Go figure.

 

[The_Roadie]

To be frank, there has been a better response from the GM community than there is from the Saab community regarding this truck. Go figure.

That's easy. We're one of the best communities on the net (there was just a weekend engine swap get-together in the midwest), and to us, you're a long-lost cousin with 99% of the same DNA.

To the Saab communities, you share a badge, but not much else. They're suspicious you're just there to boink their sisters.

We're also not owned by Internet Brands *or* Vertical Scope.

 

[TequilaWarrior]

The TC fluid was Auto-Trac II, purchased by myself directly from a Chevy Parts counter (I know the Parts Manager, he's an old Saab Parts Manager).

I'll get a fresh batch, maybe 2 the next time I am there. It isn't really that expensive and for what it's worth, fluids are one thing I will keep up on with this truck, especially once I have everything sorted out.

The LSD uses 75W90 Synthetic gear oil plus an additive (also purchased directly from GM). That has "only" been changed once (last night) with the additive in, not twice as I had been hoping for (since it wasn't done as I was told before taking possession of the truck).


Thanks for the comments regarding the platform. To be frank, there has been a better response from the GM community than there is from the Saab community regarding this truck. Go figure.

You're vehicle is from the "Dark Days" of Saab. When Saab was part of the Evil Empire that is General Motors. I'm not surprised.
I'm saying this in jest of course - I love my GMT360s and frankly covet a 9-7x Aero, blue metallic with dark grey interior, ahh... someday.
The GMT360 community is what it is because of the lackluster support of the platform by GM and the ridiculous cost of even the simplest repairs when done by a dealer. Fuel senders shouldn't cost $800 to change, transmission lines shouldn't cost $400 to change, thermostats shouldn't cost $400 to change, the list goes on and on. So... we learn to do what the dealer overcharges for - or better yet, what the dealer won't do in the first place. Don't get me wrong - I don't begrudge the dealer needing to make money. But overcharging the consumer for something that is a write-off for GM while under warranty just isn't something that I care for.
My favorite fix is grinding down the clutch plate of my A/C compressor to take out wear grooves and make the clutch fit correctly while removing the airspace shim when the clutch wouldn't engage fully. My total cost: $0. Dealer wanted to change the entire A/C compressor for almost $900 in parts and labor.
Better yet: there are no replaceable bulbs in the dash, A/C controls, Radio, or window switches - if a bulb burns out you replace the whole module at a ridiculous cost. Why? Thanks to the community we know how to change the bulb for a buck or two - or upgrade to LED - as opposed to spending hundreds on a "whatever".
People like the roadie and mooseman, who spend lots of time on this forum and spent lots of time on the other site are the backbone of the community. It is thanks to people like these - who happily scrape off the label that says "No user serviceable parts inside" when they break something and then fix it - that we can do what we do with their help and knowledge.

 

[SaabScott]

That's easy. We're one of the best communities on the net (there was just a weekend engine swap get-together in the midwest), and to us, you're a long-lost cousin with 99% of the same DNA.

To the Saab communities, you share a badge, but not much else. They're suspicious you're just there to boink their sisters.

We're also not owned by Internet Brands *or* Vertical Scope.

Well, as I think I mentioned in a previous thread, I am a long time Saab guy. Spent about 8 years on Saab Central helping build up that community (the people there were and still are great). It was bought a few years back by VS. I then helped start Saab World. I'm also in my 8th (or 9th) year as President of The Saab Club of Canada, so if anyone wants to dispute my "love of things Saab", they won't get far. My 9-7X is my 7th Saab and won't be my last (in fact, I'd get another 9-7X down the road - newer and lower miles next time though).

The Saab community is very much like things have been described here ... we banded together to take care of our cars. I've even done a tranny swap in my garage with the car on the floor ... and I've heard of people doing a lot more.

But, the old argument "what Saab is a REAL Saab" seems to always come up.

My thought on this is simple ... a Saab is whatever has a Saab logo on it. I have pages and pages of documentation on the changes Saab made to this platform to make it more "Saab-like". I feel they did a really good job bringing together the best options and parts they had to work with into a really nice looking package.


I'm just hoping I can get the drivetrain sorted out and working sooner than later ... it hit me today, if I'm running in 4WD mode all the time, I'm sure I've got to by using more fuel than normal and putting undo stress on some parts of this truck.