Removing my PCM4Less efan.

Ace1875

Original poster
Member
Mar 29, 2012
276
I bought the efan setup during their easter sale, along with a tune. but now after long and hard consideration i will be removing them, and returning back to the factory stock clutch fan

DON'T get me wrong. the efan is great spal fan. but it DOES NOT work in the southern 90+ temperatures. I owned my TB since 04 the the first owner, no one but my wife and i have driven it, my TB has never ran this hot ever EVER. and before anyone says, all my cooling components are brand new ACDelco, down to the top spout next to the CPAS. even my hoses are new ACDelco (thermostat, sensors, hoses etc etc.)

the trans temp will be around 230+ during the day and lucky to see below 200 at night. and start slipping around 235.

The aluminum shroud is Sooooo flushed mounted on the radiator that IMHO is hurting rather then helping.

Unless there is at the least 1/2" gap and dual fans this efan setup will not work in my driving and environmental conditions. i drive like a grandfather.

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TXBlazer

Member
Nov 21, 2011
533
Cypress, TEXAS USA
Don't ditch them....the problem is easy to fix......take the fans off and use a holesaw to open up the flat aluminum plate and allow the air to flow!!!

I have been running the same fans for 3 years and I'm way farther south than you are. My truck has not seen over the 200 mark, and we had more than a month of 100+ days last summer.
 

Ace1875

Original poster
Member
Mar 29, 2012
276
TXBlazer said:
Don't ditch them....the problem is easy to fix......take the fans off and use a holesaw to open up the flat aluminum plate and allow the air to flow!!!

I have been running the same fans for 3 years and I'm way farther south than you are. My truck has not seen over the 200 mark, and we had more than a month of 100+ days last summer.

Cool and what bout tranny heating up?
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
Ace1875 said:
Cool and what bout tranny heating up?

Same thing... Stock tranny cooler is IN the radiator. Cool the radiator, the trans cools down.

If you don't mind me asking, where does the temp probe for the fan install by the way? I'm trying to figure that part out for my homebrew efan.
 

Mypetropig

Member
Dec 29, 2011
226
Sparky said:
Same thing... Stock tranny cooler is IN the radiator. Cool the radiator, the trans cools down.

If you don't mind me asking, where does the temp probe for the fan install by the way? I'm trying to figure that part out for my homebrew efan.

They say in the description of the new fan kit that they use a thermostatic switch that you will drill and tap into the water outlet.
 

Mypetropig

Member
Dec 29, 2011
226
TXBlazer said:
Don't ditch them....the problem is easy to fix......take the fans off and use a holesaw to open up the flat aluminum plate and allow the air to flow!!!

I have been running the same fans for 3 years and I'm way farther south than you are. My truck has not seen over the 200 mark, and we had more than a month of 100+ days last summer.

If you don't mind, could you post a pic of this mod?
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
Mypetropig said:
They say in the description of the new fan kit that they use a thermostatic switch that you will drill and tap into the water outlet.

OK... which water outlet? Coming off the engine or off the radiator (top or bottom hose?). I'm not well versed with the coolant flow direction and I'd prefer to only drill one hole lol.
 

Ghost

Member
Jun 1, 2012
932
WoW engine is HOT ! I am in socal, mine doesn't go past 205.
How much was that cool scan gauge ??? Is it real-time info while driving ??
R u removing the pcm too ?

Is this it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCANGAUGE-II-SCAN-GAGE-OBD-2-OBD2-GUAGE-SCANGUAGE-GAUGE-/250695975494 ?
 

06Envoy

Member
Dec 4, 2011
419
I'm sorry to hear that you don't like them.
However that being said....Let me be the first to pipe up and say...."If your ditching the PCM4L efan, I'll buy the kit!"


I already have a PCM4L dual spal fan kit for my 5.3, but I'd like another set for my wife's 4.2.
As I live in Northern Ontario where there is only 2 months of bad sking, ambient temps won't be a problem for me like it was for you.

Seriously, When your ready to sell, hit me up with a PM!
 

Mark20

Member
Dec 6, 2011
1,630
Sparky said:
OK... which water outlet? Coming off the engine or off the radiator (top or bottom hose?). I'm not well versed with the coolant flow direction and I'd prefer to only drill one hole lol.

Just to answer your question the coolant flows into the TB/Voy radiator at the bottom and out the top.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,649
Ottawa, ON
Looks like the same problem I had with my homebrew efan setup with a Derale dual fan controller with radiator push-in sensor. Was it heating like this when not moving or slowly? Do you have a manual override switch that you can activate the fans despite the sensor? I had initially put the sensor at the bottom of the radiator and had the same temps as you did in traffic. Once I moved the sensor to the top, problem solved (except for one quirkyness related to the radiator sensor itself but hasn't overheated since). I will be putting in a screw-in sensor in the top hose using an adapter.

The top hose/outlet is the proper place to get actual engine temperature for the fan sensor.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
FWIW while I was sitting in traffic with my AC on (and it was in the 90s today) my temp gauge crept up near where the OPs is listed. And I still have my stock clutch fan. It dropped back down once I got moving again. I think it was a case of not enough engine RPM to run the fan fast enough, and once moving (higher engine speed) the fan could work better. I was thinking if that were the case efans would be better since they aren't dependent on engine speed :undecided:
 

Ace1875

Original poster
Member
Mar 29, 2012
276
Sparky said:
Same thing... Stock tranny cooler is IN the radiator. Cool the radiator, the trans cools down.

If you don't mind me asking, where does the temp probe for the fan install by the way? I'm trying to figure that part out for my homebrew efan.

The top water outlet elbow below the CPAS, under the intake tube.



Mooseman said:
Looks like the same problem I had with my homebrew efan setup with a Derale dual fan controller with radiator push-in sensor. Was it heating like this when not moving or slowly? Do you have a manual override switch that you can activate the fans despite the sensor? I had initially put the sensor at the bottom of the radiator and had the same temps as you did in traffic. Once I moved the sensor to the top, problem solved (except for one quirkyness related to the radiator sensor itself but hasn't overheated since). I will be putting in a screw-in sensor in the top hose using an adapter.

The top hose/outlet is the proper place to get actual engine temperature for the fan sensor.

yes i do have a override switch installed and start the fans when the truck starts till it stops. i never had this overheat issue with the factory setup. but i do have to say the AC works great even in bumper to bumper traffic.
 

Ace1875

Original poster
Member
Mar 29, 2012
276
Ghost said:
WoW engine is HOT ! I am in socal, mine doesn't go past 205.
How much was that cool scan gauge ??? Is it real-time info while driving ??
R u removing the pcm too ?

Is this it: this?

Yes that's it. it was around the same price when i bought it around a year or so ago. It is real-time info. The vehicle will not operate without a PCM. it is nothing more then a scan tool. You will need to set it up to read TFT.
 

gsf1200m

Member
Dec 15, 2011
55
I have the new efan kit and it is 95 here. I just drove around for about 20 minutes with the AC full blast. I let the truck idle for about 5 minutes with the AC still on when I went into the post office. My temp needle never moved from its normal straight up spot.
 
Feb 24, 2012
133
Do these fans have a low/high speed? What temp do they turn on? What temp do they switch to high? If you bypass relays etc and apply full battery voltage (fused of course) directly to the fans do they run better? Is the ground good and clean?

Just some thoughts on why yours might not be working as well as others. I don't have these fans myself but would if I had a 360.
 

ScarabEpic22

Member
Nov 20, 2011
728
Did you change the coolant and/or remove the upper radiator hose when installing them? Did you burb the coolant? Sounds like an air bubble issue more than anything to me, I spent 10min massaging the upper radiator hose on my SS when installed my LS1 fans to make sure I didnt have an air bubble plus I had to add about 16oz of water/coolant back into the radiator.
 

Ace1875

Original poster
Member
Mar 29, 2012
276
deekster_caddy said:
Do these fans have a low/high speed? What temp do they turn on? What temp do they switch to high? If you bypass relays etc and apply full battery voltage (fused of course) directly to the fans do they run better? Is the ground good and clean?

Just some thoughts on why yours might not be working as well as others. I don't have these fans myself but would if I had a 360.

no these fans are single speed. i wouldn't run these fans without a relay because they do connect under the fuse box to the ingnition and AC output along with the temp probe on the top water outlet elbow. The fans come on at around 195. the spal fans at the setup provide by PCM4less work at their max nominal RPM, which i am not sure what it is. All i can tell u is it is LOUD and will suck.

ScarabEpic22 said:
Did you change the coolant and/or remove the upper radiator hose when installing them? Did you burb the coolant? Sounds like an air bubble issue more than anything to me, I spent 10min massaging the upper radiator hose on my SS when installed my LS1 fans to make sure I didnt have an air bubble plus I had to add about 16oz of water/coolant back into the radiator.


yes the system is "burb" free. when installing my fans i changed my water pump to a new (Not rebuild) ACDelco water pump, thermostat, temp sensor and the water outlet elbow along with many other replacements. tested the water pump for flow and everything mechanical, pretaining to the cooling is working fine.

i recently even changed my setup from 50:50 to 30:70 and it has helped lower the temp around 5 to almost 10 degrees.

All in all i really wish the shroud was designed better. and not flush mounted which IS hurting the airflow and cooling. see the factory shroud makes use of the entire radiator to flow the air through it. where as this shroud sits flush on the radiator limiting the airflow in just the fan opening. blocking the transmission cooling area and the remaining radiator.

Derale makes fans that fit our trucks and are 4000CFM. I should have bought them instead. but oh well. i will try TXBlazers's way by using a holesaw on the shroud.

der-16826_w.jpg
 

kardain

Member
Dec 16, 2011
557
A hi/lo speed is typically controlled by the voltage going to the fans.

Example: A controller like the Spal FAN-PWM uses pulse width modulation to achieve a dual speed result. At a preset temperature, the fans come on at low speed (lower voltage). At a higher temp, they go to high (full voltage). This cuts down on the amp strain.... Steps up gradually instead of 0-60a in one shot (or however many amps yours uses at full voltage).
 

gsf1200m

Member
Dec 15, 2011
55
I take back what I said about mine staying at the correct temp. It was 95 degrees yesterday and I was in bumper to bumper traffic on the highway with the ac on. I was good for about a half hour, then the temp guage went to one line past 210. Shortly after that it jumped up 2 more lines so the highest it got was the last small line before the larger one. I was in the traffic for about 40 minutes. After 40 minutes we started moving again and the temp went back to normal in about 5 minutes. I was a little nervous. I may have to put some holes in the shroud also.
 

Ace1875

Original poster
Member
Mar 29, 2012
276
kardain said:
A hi/lo speed is typically controlled by the voltage going to the fans.

Example: A controller like the Spal FAN-PWM uses pulse width modulation to achieve a dual speed result. At a preset temperature, the fans come on at low speed (lower voltage). At a higher temp, they go to high (full voltage). This cuts down on the amp strain.... Steps up gradually instead of 0-60a in one shot (or however many amps yours uses at full voltage).

yes you are correct but PCM4Less does not provide a controller. instead the kit includes a screw in probe, a relay and a harness along with a wiring diagram to plug into the fuse box. thus lack of controller renders this kit into a single speed setup only.

Pics courtesy of PCM4Less
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gsf1200m said:
I take back what I said about mine staying at the correct temp. It was 95 degrees yesterday and I was in bumper to bumper traffic on the highway with the ac on. I was good for about a half hour, then the temp guage went to one line past 210. Shortly after that it jumped up 2 more lines so the highest it got was the last small line before the larger one. I was in the traffic for about 40 minutes. After 40 minutes we started moving again and the temp went back to normal in about 5 minutes. I was a little nervous. I may have to put some holes in the shroud also.

Do not go by the temp gauge on your dash it is well known that the gauge is not accurate. Also even if your coolant temp appears to be low doesn't mean your TFT is the same or lower then your coolant. you need a real time data scanner to find that out.

i went ahead and bought a external transmission cooler and during that install i will be removing the fan shroud and making quite a few holes in it.

I think the radiator's heat is heating up the flush aluminum shroud and in turn is causing the radiator to stay heated up. Same concept as why a plastic CAIs' runs cooler then a metal ones. the plastic one is known to keep the IAT lower then their metal counterpart.

Again i would like to point out that this kit is a great kit, i loved almost everything about it but the shroud. Besides the shroud the folks at PCM4Less did an excellent job of making this.
 

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gsf1200m

Member
Dec 15, 2011
55
Yes, I do not know the exact temp, but the needle has always been straight up and yesterday it was almost at the next large line. Without knowing the exact temps I think I can make some reasonable assumptions based on this.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,649
Ottawa, ON
With everybody saying that the dash gauge is inaccurate I have to say that mine is pretty bang on after verifying with a scanner.

Yesterday was the hottest day yet here (35C 95f) with high humidity and my temp never went over 100C 212f. But my a/c doesn't work.

Last question about your setup. How old is the radiator? Maybe it's plugged up or something. Sorry if you already answered this. I can't go back and forth using tapatalk.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
Nov 18, 2011
49,665
Mooseman said:
With everybody saying that the dash gauge is inaccurate I have to say that mine is pretty bang on after verifying with a scanner.

My dash to scan gauge differences show the dash is hugely inaccurate. The dash shows right at 210 from when the gauge reads 170s until 220. The dash stays in the same spot through out that 50 degre swing in temps. Not I have my truck running a consistent 197-202 degrees via the scangauge but the dash stays where the needle is just at the right edge of the 210 degree mark.

For 2 months I have been watching temps like a hawk and working on getting my highway temps down, so I am quite certain the dash gauge is worthless for more than a general knowledge of when it swings right it is getting hot, how hot/who knows???, and when it is under 210...you need to check you thermostat/fan clutch/water pump because these motors dont run that cool and if they do it hurts your mpg. But to believe that your truck is at 210 because the dash says so.....no way.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,649
Ottawa, ON
Might depend on the years. My 08 Montana has no numbers on the gauge and NEVER goes above center. On my 02 TB, it is accurate and moves as the temp rises and falls just like a real gauge.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
For what it's worth, if the gauge hits the next large line (the 1:30 position) it is running warmer yes but it is technically not outside the operating range and can be expected to happen on a hot day, in traffic, with the AC on. As I mentioned earlier my truck has a 100% stock cooling system on it still and it has nudged towards that line this week in the heat with the AC on in stop and go traffic.

Naturally keeping it closer to the vertical 210 is better if possible but don't beat yourselves up over it either.
 

infamouz

Member
Dec 3, 2011
89
Ace1875 said:
no these fans are single speed. i wouldn't run these fans without a relay because they do connect under the fuse box to the ingnition and AC output along with the temp probe on the top water outlet elbow. The fans come on at around 195. the spal fans at the setup provide by PCM4less work at their max nominal RPM, which i am not sure what it is. All i can tell u is it is LOUD and will suck.




yes the system is "burb" free. when installing my fans i changed my water pump to a new (Not rebuild) ACDelco water pump, thermostat, temp sensor and the water outlet elbow along with many other replacements. tested the water pump for flow and everything mechanical, pretaining to the cooling is working fine.

i recently even changed my setup from 50:50 to 30:70 and it has helped lower the temp around 5 to almost 10 degrees.

All in all i really wish the shroud was designed better. and not flush mounted which IS hurting the airflow and cooling. see the factory shroud makes use of the entire radiator to flow the air through it. where as this shroud sits flush on the radiator limiting the airflow in just the fan opening. blocking the transmission cooling area and the remaining radiator.

Derale makes fans that fit our trucks and are 4000CFM. I should have bought them instead. but oh well. i will try TXBlazers's way by using a holesaw on the shroud.

der-16826_w.jpg
Would this fans connect to pcmforless older harness wireing?:undecided:
 

Ace1875

Original poster
Member
Mar 29, 2012
276
Mooseman said:
With everybody saying that the dash gauge is inaccurate I have to say that mine is pretty bang on after verifying with a scanner.

Yesterday was the hottest day yet here (35C 95f) with high humidity and my temp never went over 100C 212f. But my a/c doesn't work.

Last question about your setup. How old is the radiator? Maybe it's plugged up or something. Sorry if you already answered this. I can't go back and forth using tapatalk.

You are one of the few lucky ones with accurate gauge. My radiator is factory original, before the install I did clean and did a full visual inspection of the radiator.

infamouz said:
Would this fans connect to pcmforless older harness wireing?:undecided:

Yes they will. U can pretty much make almost any fan work.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,649
Ottawa, ON
I looked at the info on PCM4Less' site and they basically adapted the Canyon/Colorado fan kit. I don't like the design as it would pull air only from one section of the rad at the fan since the rest is just flat sheetmetal covering the rad and stopping airflow at highway speed. The Derale looks like the right setup. Two fans spread across with a shroud set back to allow the fans to pull across the whole rad. It even has cutouts with flaps to allow air at speed but close when the fans are working. Simple but effective. My only gripe is the price. What's the CFM rating of the LS1 fans? That may be a better option at a more reasonable cost. If you want other ideas, http://gmtnation.com/f24/my-electric-fan-setup-montana-venture-efans-2425/ is working well, even in 36C weather Thursday (without A/C).
 

jemmie

Member
Jan 7, 2012
49
FWIW... I have an '05 XL 4x4 with 4.2L and tow a 27' travel trailer with it (near limit of what Envoy will tow really) in summer and have never had temp issues with OEM fan.

Slightly off topic... What code did you use to get TFT on Scangauge? The code they gave me doesn't work for me. Thanks.
 

jemmie

Member
Jan 7, 2012
49
jemmie said:
FWIW... I have an '05 XL 4x4 with 4.2L and tow a 27' travel trailer with it (near limit of what Envoy will tow really) in summer and have never had temp issues with OEM fan.

Slightly off topic... What code did you use to get TFT on Scangauge? The code they gave me doesn't work for me. Thanks.

Forget that. My TFT works. The TFT I got from Scangauge for my other vehicle doesn't work. I'm confusing my vehicles...
 

bruhaba

Member
Apr 17, 2012
118
Just a data point for you all. I have the derale fans. Put them on a while ago because I need room for my supercharger drive up front.

Pulling my ~4000 lb boat at 65 mph up a looong steady grade in 95 deg ambient it hit 223(on a scanner). I have not seen it higher than that. I think these fans are adequate, but barely IMO. If you do a lot of towing, I would stay away from electric fans altogether. It will be interesting to see if it can deal with the extra power a supercharged I6 will make.
 

Sparky

Member
Dec 4, 2011
12,927
As I mentioned I don't think 223 is anything to worry about that much. My TB hits that with the AC going, towing nothing, on a hot day, in traffic, with the stock clutch fan. 223 isn't overheating, just a little warm and to be expected when working hard in hot temperatures. Most cars have their normal temperature but an allowable range when working hard.
 
Aug 7, 2012
2
Ace1875 said:


Sorry you are having problems but you have quoted the wrong fan from SPAL. We use this part number

SPAL USA

As quoted

"Our High Performance 16" fan line is the best of the best! This is our most popular primary fan for the street rod enthusiast. It is available in curved blade design for reduced noise and feature fully sealed waterproof/dustproof motors. Each fan is individually balanced for long life. "



Get it touch with our sales office and they will get you a replacement. We use the same fan (but not shroud) in our H3 hummer kits. We have sold several hundred fan kits now with spal fans and this is the first time I've ever seen such a failure. Things happen though. Hell a few months ago we had a trailblazer SS guy show us where his Completely stock OEM Clutch fan let loose and went thru the hood. Insurance had to pay him for a new hood and radiator.
 
Aug 7, 2012
2
Mooseman said:
I looked at the info on PCM4Less' site and they basically adapted the Canyon/Colorado fan kit. I don't like the design as it would pull air only from one section of the rad at the fan since the rest is just flat sheetmetal covering the rad and stopping airflow at highway speed. The Derale looks like the right setup. Two fans spread across with a shroud set back to allow the fans to pull across the whole rad. It even has cutouts with flaps to allow air at speed but close when the fans are working. Simple but effective. My only gripe is the price. What's the CFM rating of the LS1 fans? That may be a better option at a more reasonable cost. If you want other ideas, http://gmtnation.com/f24/my-electric-fan-setup-montana-venture-efans-2425/ is working well, even in 36C weather Thursday (without A/C).

Hi, The only thing shared between our trailblazer fan kit and the Colorado/Canyon Fan kit is the fan itself. The shroud and wiring are completely different. The temperature probes are also different. Also we do not put flaps in the shroud be cause the shroud is spaced 3/4 of a inch from the radiator and the fan size is sufficient for bypass air at highway speeds similar to the OEM fan.


We fully believe these fans are completely adequate. We have several in the field and several H3 guys with the same fan (different shroud) who use their vehicles for crawling. Its possible the OP had a air pocket or a compromised fan from the start.
 

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