Ready to just drive it till it dies...

513lette

Member
Ill try to keep this to the point. 07 TB LS. CEL is usually on and typically pulls EVAP code, small leak and large leak. Well it started idiling a little odd about a week ago, hooked my scanner up to it and got 30 codes :wowfaint: (I went adead and attached photos of the original 30 codes just for reference) There were at least 12 that are circuit/sensor intermittent. They are all over the place, which for me makes it hard to narrow down. Most concerning ones were P0013, P0014, P0017, P0365 and P0366. Went ahead and changed VVT actuator and cam sensor (i didnt do the crank sensor beacuse I had no idea that it was a totally different part, remember this is beyond what i know car wise so Ive just been searching here and trailvoy forums for help) changed plugs with NGK irridium, and did an oil change (oil looked fine, nothing out of the ordinary or anything in it) cleared codes and drove around for a bit. Turned the truck off and back on and boom, CEL back on immideately. This time its only pulling p0014, p0017, p0171, p0365, p0366, p0420, p0442, p0451, p0454, p0464, p0483, p0741 which is better than the 30 original, but I still have the cam/crank codes and circuit codes. I am also going to pickup some techron and run it through for the fuel injectors.

The TB also has somewhat of a long crank, all day, everyday, and at every start. I have never had it not start (except the couple times the battery died)

I have had suggestions from changing the ignition switch (which was changed last year) to a PCM issue, to starter, bad grounds, fuel issue

I tested battery and alternator with my scanner, Battery tested ok, alternator tested (using scanner it had me turn on the lights, start vehicle, rev engine to 2000 and hold it while it counted down) 14.99 the first time and 14.73 the second..thought 13-15v was acceptable so not sure what thats about.

Basically im just wondering where the heck shoul I start.... Should i be looking for an electrical issue with the circuit codes, is the alternator causing some sort of damage and screwing with the voltage of everything, or should i just drive this thing till it dies, I am not going to put a new engine or have the timing redone on a 12 year old truck with 245K on it. thats just not money I want to invest.
 

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TollKeeper

Well-Known Member
I am going to assume that you have the 4.2, since its the most common on this platform.

What is your Temp Guage doing? Does it sit right in the middle, to the right, to the left?

Its totally subjective with the 4.2 since the temp guage is just a dummy guage, but it has me wondering on some of those codes if the thermostat is shot.
 

DocBrown

Well-Known Member
First thing I'd check is your battery voltage. Let it sit for at least 10 minutes before checking. It should be 12.7 volts or higher. Any lower and it can cause all kinds of false readings as the sensors are not getting enough power.
 

Mike534x

Well-Known Member
If you have still have codes for the EVAP, it could be a bad gas cap or the purge valve/canister that sits near the gas tank.

When you replaced the VVT did you use Dorman or AC Delco? The dorman ones aren't too reliable and the auto part store branded ones aren't much better either.
 
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513lette

Member
I am going to assume that you have the 4.2, since its the most common on this platform.

What is your Temp Guage doing? Does it sit right in the middle, to the right, to the left?

Its totally subjective with the 4.2 since the temp guage is just a dummy guage, but it has me wondering on some of those codes if the thermostat is shot.
Yeah it’s the 4.2. Temp gauge for the most part stays right in the middle, sometimes it will be just a hair (and I mean tiny bit) in whither direction.

If you have still have codes for the EVAP, it could be a bad gas cap or the purge valve/canister that sits near the gas tank.

When you replaced the VVT did you use Dorman or AC Delco? The dorman ones aren't too reliable and the auto part store branded ones aren't much better either.
AC Delco, I try to use GM parts when it comes to things like this, only because I’d rather do something once than 2 times or more lol gas cap is fairly new, acdelco as well. I did take a look at the Evap system a while back and everything looked in place. The Evap codes have been there since I first bought the truck 4 years ago. Shops have looked at it as well, and said they can’t see anything :duh:

First thing I'd check is your battery voltage. Let it sit for at least 10 minutes before checking. It should be 12.7 volts or higher. Any lower and it can cause all kinds of false readings as the sensors are not getting enough power.
Let it sit off for 10 or idle for 10 before checking? Dummy question I know, I’ve just seen it done both ways.
 

MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
It sounds like you answered your own Questions with the Last Sentence in your First Post... However... Solving ALL of these problems will require some systematic thinking on your part.. beginning with this fact:

When it comes to solving Trouble Codes in any OBDII System... You have to take them in the order that they appear on your Scan Tool.

You will also need to provide more information about the Vehicle and how you have been using it since you first climbed into the Driver's seat around (4) Years ago... Towing Boats? Live in a Mountainous Region? Exposed to Salt water and Ocean Spray? You get the idea...?

(1) With 245,000 Miles of Wear and Tear on the Drive Train and SUV in general... How many Miles were on the Odometer when you first got the Vehicle and started driving it?

(2) Have you been using strictly a Full Synthetic Motor Oil... like Mobil 1 5W-30 Motor Oil and either K&N or Mobil1 Oil or other High Quality Oil Filters every 3,000 Miles without fail since you first got the SUV?

(3) Why did you choose to install NGK Spark plugs instead of using the ones strictly recommended by GM for ACDelco as listed in this Link?


(4) Have you realized that until you are able to solve the problems behind the "Code Clusters" you have experienced... that you'll have to Unload your "Parts Shotgun" and hang it back up over the Fireplace? First ...find out what the REAL issues are ...and only purchase things as needed.

(5) While it is entirely possible that you might have a Bad Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) ...before you crawl under the Driver's Side of the engine and remove it... consider that so far... its seems to be functioning well enough to indicate that your Very High Mileage Engine has a Stretched Timing Chain, Worn Out Timing Chain Guides and perhaps even a tired Timing Chain Tensioner that will all conspire to cause a "Crankshaft-Camshaft Correlation" problems whenthrowing a P0017 Code... bad enough to screw up the Spark Plug Timing and the rightly regulated reactions for Compression to make the engine run correctly. So leave THAT one alone for now...

(6) You will need a decent means of examining these Scanned problems... hopefully with a Quality Blue Tooth OBDII Scanner and the "Torque" App to assist you along the way while "Sorting the Wheat from the Chaff..." and refrain from bouncing all over the place when figuring out what each code is telling. If they cluster together... Googling them in Groups in the EXACT sequence they occurred for information that can help to pinpoint more specific culprits.

(7) Don't ignore trying out Youtube in the same manner and see if any other Poor Souls have already encountered what you have been experiencing... and figured out solutions that you might want to know about much sooner than later.

(8) Be completely honest about your Mechanical Skill Set Level...of the advice you receive if not gauged correctly might entice you to try doing work that will only make matters worse for you if the tasks become too complex and difficult for your Level of Skill.

(9) Throwing a lot of Time, Money and Effort at resurrecting a worn out Engine Platform with a Quarter Million Miles in its Rear View Mirror is akin to "Putting a $50.00 Saddle on a $2.00 Horse..." so re-read the Last Sentence in your First Post and consider things carefully and wisely before doing anything more to your SUV than "Code Elimination" in an organized, problem solving manner.

(10) Read ALL of the "Stickied" Articles in colored in Blue... especially the FAQs FIRST about your Engine Platform and bone up on the right information here at GMT Nation... because "You Can't Tell The Players... Without A Program..."
 
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513lette

Member
It sounds like you answered your own Questions with the Last Sentence in your First Post... However... Solving ALL of these problems will require some systematic thinking on your part.. beginning with this fact:

When it comes to solving Trouble Codes in any OBDII System... You have to take them in the order that they appear on your Scan Tool.

You will also need to provide more information about the Vehicle and how you have been using it since you first climbed into the Driver's seat around (4) Years ago... Towing Boats? Live in a Mountainous Region? Exposed to Salt water and Ocean Spray? You get the idea...?

(1) With 245,000 Miles of Wear and Tear on the Drive Train and SUV in general... How many Miles were on the Odometer when you first got the Vehicle and started driving it?

(2) Have you been using strictly a Full Synthetic Motor Oil... like Mobil 1 5W-30 Motor Oil and either K&N or Mobil1 Oil or other High Quality Oil Filters every 3,000 Miles without fail since you first got the SUV?

(3) Why did you choose to install NGK Spark plugs instead of using the ones strictly recommended by GM for ACDelco as listed in this Link?


(4) Have you realized that until you are able to solve the problems behind the "Code Clusters" you have experienced... that you'll have to Unload your "Parts Shotgun" and hang it back up over the Fireplace? First ...find out what the REAL issues are ...and only purchase things as needed.

(5) While it is entirely possible that you might have a Bad Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP) ...before you crawl under the Driver's Side of the engine and remove it... consider that so far... its seems to be functioning well enough to indicate that your Very High Mileage Engine has a Stretched Timing Chain, Worn Out Timing Chain Guides and perhaps even a tired Timing Chain Tensioner that will all conspire to cause a "Crankshaft-Camshaft Correlation" problems whenthrowing a P0017 Code... bad enough to screw up the Spark Plug Timing and the rightly regulated reactions for Compression to make the engine run correctly. So leave THAT one alone for now...

(6) You will need a decent means of examining these Scanned problems... hopefully with a Quality Blue Tooth OBDII Scanner and the "Torque" App to assist you along the way while "Sorting the Wheat from the Chaff..." and refrain from bouncing all over the place when figuring out what each code is telling. If they cluster together... Googling them in Groups in the EXACT sequence they occurred for information that can help to pinpoint more specific culprits.

(7) Don't ignore trying out Youtube in the same manner and see if any other Poor Souls have already encountered what you have been experiencing... and figured out solutions that you might want to know about much sooner than later.

(8) Be completely honest about your Mechanical Skill Set Level...of the advice you receive if not gauged correctly might entice you to try doing work that will only make matters worse for you if the tasks become too complex and difficult for your Level of Skill.

(9) Throwing a lot of Time, Money and Effort at resurrecting a worn out Engine Platform with a Quarter Million Miles in its Rear View Mirror is akin to "Putting a $50.00 Saddle on a $2.00 Horse..." so re-read the Last Sentence in your First Post and consider things carefully and wisely before doing anything more to your SUV than "Code Elimination" in an organized, problem solving manner.

(10) Read ALL of the "Stickied" Articles in colored in Blue... especially the FAQs FIRST about your Engine Platform and bone up on the right information here at GMT Nation... because "You Can't Tell The Players... Without A Program..."
I don't mind putting in money into it as upkeep and typical repairs, that is honestly the reason I am trying to troubleshoot and figure out if this really is a timing issue or of something else is causing a malfunction with sensors and circuits , in not only the engine area but other areas of the car as well. There are no odd noises coming from the engine, while driving or at idle. The idle issue is only seen when the truck is in park, its a very light shake. as soon as I put the car into drive, neutral or reverse, the idle disappears and sometimes I have to check that is it actually still running.

to answer some of your other questions,

I live in Ohio, where we can experience all 4 seasons in 1 week..seriously. I have never towed with the vehicle, it is driven mostly highway to and from work (45 minutes one way, 5 days a week)

When I bought the truck it had around 170k, I got it off my sister, who surprisingly kept up with general Maintence on it, but wanted a smaller hybrid instead.

I have used full synthetic high mileage since I have owned it, Mobil 1- Same thing I use in my 94 accord with almost 400k and still running strong.

From what I had read on Spark plugs and the TB on this forum and trailvoy, it was as toss up between NGK and ACDelco (both iridium) Both were recommended, so that choice just came down to what was in stock at the time, and since my local parts store doesn't like to keep ACdelco anything in stock, I went with NGK.

As far as my Parts shotgun, I don't just throw parts in. In I kew that the p0014 was for the VVT actuator, and that the Actuator and cam sensor should be replaced at the same time and then an oil change done. Since changing both, that code has gone away, so I feel its safe to say the the actuator was an issue.

I didn't plan on just throwing a CKP in, because 1 the exact code for it is not present, and 2 because of location. Of course there actually being a timing issue has been in the back of my head, since I first saw the codes, But again, I would like to at least try and troubleshoot to rule out other things. I do have a friend helping me as much as he can, and he even said that with all the circuit codes he's wondering if it could be something else. I did find out that my battery tested 12.26v with a volt meter, when my scanner said it was okay, according to everything online its below specs of a good battery, and could be a possible cause of the long start, or other electrical issues. I am taking the battery to get charged in the morning and will retest, if it still fails to hold a charge ill replace.

I have an Innova 3040e scanner, OBD2 codes, ABS, Live data, battery and Alternator testing. Not the top dog, but does give me enough information that I can take it and look online.

Youtube is my best friend, I figured out how to replace the actuator and cam sensor from there. In regards to looking up cluster of codes, I did do that with the cam/crank codes, however, most questions asked have either lead to a dead forum, with no real answers or possible solutions, or they have a solved tag, and the solution was to replace the cam sensor, and usually didn't include a code or 2 out of the Custer of codes I have.

Im not expecting anyone to be able to 100% accurately diagnose my issue down to a T over the internet, but a finger point of where to possibly look or things to try would be great. I had contemplated taking the truck in for diagnostics, but each time I ask what the diagnostics entail, I get "we put it on a scanner and pull the codes, it will give us a general idea of whats going on".... sounds like the same thing Im doing.
 

MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
All Good Answers and contrary to what the title of your thread is... it does not sound like you are quite ready to throw in the towel just yet. Unless your Sister thought to have this done when she had the SUV... The Motor Mounts supporting the Left and Right Sides of the Engine on angle brackets are like Huge, Liquid Filled 'Gum-Drops' with fasteners on either ends that will have by now... either lost that "Gooey Gel" from inside ...or have substantially cracked in their carcasses and collapsed enough to allow the Engine to vibrate around at the rate of 10 Herz while sitting at Idle. Cracks will develop in the Flex-Plate due to these going sideways as well.

You can investigate this for confirmation by safely elevating and supporting the Vehicle and looking for what will appear like an Oil Leak sprayed against the adjacent Engine Compartment Wheel Wells (where there will be no possible source for such a leak) and observe this artifact will have the look and feel of "Black, Sticky Lube":

88142

Again... Only ACDelco Motor Mounts should be used for this necessary R&R.
 
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513lette

Member
You’re correct, I honestly don’t want to throw in the towel just yet, because the truck has actually done really well for me. I will definitely check the mounts, could account for the slight shake in park. I highly doubt she ever thought to have them looked at. She was good about keeping track of Maintence schedule (tires, oil change, tune ups) but never really looked past that unless something was serious
 

MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
Your very next Port of Call is to visit any of the Threads or Posts where @Mooseman has contributed and read the bottom of his Signature (Cygil) Line and Follow his instructions on How to Download the GM OEM Digital Service Manual for your particular Year/Make/Model Vehicle. This information will be indispensable to not only knowing what those myriad codes mean... but to be able to read the Chapter and Verse on how to go about running each one to ground.

For example...In the case of all those Transmission Code Clusters... the Solenoids in your 4L60E Transmission are all fed by a single, shared Power Wire in the Solenoid Harness and therefore may have a common source (The Pink Wire on the Transmission Wiring Diagram) that relates to the Ignition Switch as the source of its original Power Flow. So having the OEM Service Manuals side-steps all of the empirical gibberish and limited "Haynes Manual" approach and avoids having to deal with any other nonsense that can obscure and fog up the means to discover the causes of these problems.

Here is another example... Take the 20 Pin Male Harness inside of the 4L60E Transmission... If you look at the two attached images with the areas Circled in RED... You'll notice a Green "O"Ring there that is supposed to seal the Transmission Fluid inside of the Case. But on occasion... right where it pokes through the Aluminum Housing and allows the External Female portion of the 20 Pin Harness to plug into it from the outside... it will Break Down.

If that Green Seal fails... it can allow the Dexron V Transmission Fluid to migrate upwards and into the Hollow space inside of the bottom and fill it up with enough Xns-Fluid to coat the receptacle and pins and socket ports... and intermittently break the Electrical connections with some of the 20 wires... making the Transmission Shifting and performance misbehave oddly and even stop the Solenoids from performing their jobs:


4L60E20PINHARNESSFEMALE_.jpg4L60E20PINHARNESSMALE_.jpg1554861969314.png
 
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513lette

Member
The transmission codes are no longer reporting, and aren’t pending either, which I found as odd, never has issues with the transmission either. As of now it seems to be circuit codes for Evap system, small leak Evap, circuit codes for cam sensor and cam/crank sensor correlation, fuel level sensor intermittent, purge flow sensor intermittent and 0171 fuel system too lean, which I’m gonna try some techron on because it could quite possibly use it.

I will still definitely download the online manual and have a read through. I usually buy one, but haven’t needed it.. until now
 

MRRSM

Lifetime VIP Supporter
I was Editing in more data just as you were just Posting... Check out Post #11 again...

The Paper Versions of the GM Manuals will either be unavailable ...or so cost prohibitive and expensive that you would never want to "Pull the Pin" and make the Buy... Oh...and I would start looking at The Ignition Switch, too ...as these problems have also been tracked back to a Bad One:
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
With so many codes, I would be inclined to think it's the PCM. That or a wiring or power issue to these sensors or the PCM. Did all these codes appear all at once or one after the other over time?

Link in my signature for the manuals.
 
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513lette

Member
With so many codes, I would be inclined to think it's the PCM. That or a wiring or power issue to these sensors or the PCM. Did all these codes appear all at once or one after the other over time?

Link in my signature for the manuals.
I check the truck every now and then only because the cel is always on with evap code, and there’s never been a solution found from the shops I’ve taken it too. It’s hard to say when the others showed up, it was about 2 weeks after I did a quick check (which resulted in no new codes) when I noticed the slight idle issue, I was parked waiting for my kids to come out of school. As soon as I got home, I checked it and that’s when the codes showed up, and a day or so later I did the actuator, cam sensor, oil change and plugs. Reset cel that day, which reappeared after turning car off and back on, but only pulled a hand full instead of the whole list. PCM issues has been mentioned before because of the amount of circuit codes. Resetting the PCM wouldn’t do anything other than ruling the issue out, would it?
 

Maverick6587

Well-Known Member
The TB also has somewhat of a long crank, all day, everyday, and at every start. I have never had it not start (except the couple times the battery died)

I have had suggestions from changing the ignition switch (which was changed last year) to a PCM issue, to starter, bad grounds, fuel issue
I assume your long crank is gone now that you replaced the crank, cam, and vvt sensors (I think you said all three of those)? After you replaced the crank sensor, did you perform a crank relearn?

I agree with @Mooseman and your initial post of it being a wiring issue or a PCM issue. I would start with checking all of those grounds on the vehicle first. It's free and they are more than likely corroded. I would clean ALL of them though, don't just inspect for corrosion. I had one on the engine that looked perfect but, had a slight bit of corrosion under the bolt causing an intermittent code. There is a vehicle ground diagram in Mooseman's manuals.

PCMs are fairly cheap at junkyards and that would be a nice test of the PCM. You'll have a security light (that will not let you start the vehicle), you'll have to either program your keys again (30 minutes) unless you have a cheap shop near you or someone from GMTN that can program the keys to the PCM with the Tech2.

After you have verified that all ground connections are good, I would start checking the 5v reference. Starting with the easiest which would probably be the throttle body or MAP. Depending on your vehicle... the MAF may have a 5v wire going to it as well.

If it's not the ground wiring/harness wiring, the PCM, or the 5v reference... Load up that parts cannon! Good luck to you... We've all been there at some point.

EDIT: Actually... Once you verify a good 5v reference... I would check for the 5v reference on everything that is throwing a code.
 
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513lette

Member
Long crank is still present, it’s not terribly long, but I definitely notice a difference. I’ll try to grab a quick video of it later. I did find a TSB last night from GM regargarding the p0171 code and it mentioned long crank as a symptom, most common fix was a fuel injector cleaning, so I’m going to run that through. That’s one thing I’ve never done, so it couldn’t hurt. Since I low my battery is low, that could be a possibility too. I only changed the vvt and cam sensor, I didn’t realize there were 3 sensors, so that’s why the crank sensor wasn’t done. Now that I know, I don’t actually have a crank sensor code, other than the cam/crank correlation so I’m just going to leave the crank sensor be for now until I can eliminate other easier possibilities.

I’ve only identified 3 grounds so far removed cleaned and put back. All looked decent, but as you said looks can be deceiving. I’ve been looking around for diagrams for the others, I know theres quite a few so thanks for the info of where they are at lol.

Throttle body was cleaned last year, but hasn’t been replaced, and was on my list along with the MAF. A friend has an impala and said they are both notorious for going bad. In regards to checking 5v on them, is it done with the vehicle on or off, and check from harness as well as the connector or the part correct.


I greatly appreciate everyone’s ideas, I’m not a total noob when it comes to cars, however, I won’t lie and say I know the world about them, but once I have a general idea of where to start, I can usually get it figured out with references and YouTube. I’m taking the battery to get charged up now, then I’ll start on grounds and 5v checks. I’ll post an update later today or tomorrow if I find anything suspect
 

Maverick6587

Well-Known Member
I had the p0171 I individually replaced all three of those sensor and the only thing that fixed that long crank was replace the crank sensor. I didn't have a Tech2 at the time, but after a few weeks the long crank went away. I assumed after a period of time the computer would run a relearn at some point.

The 5v reference I believe is running at all times. If not, just put the key in and turn it to the ON position (don't start it), the engine for sure does not need to be running for the 5v reference.

EDIT: The ground diagram is labeled, "Electrical Components and Grounds". The ground locations are listed as G### throughout that manual.
I can't find the doc I created that showed all of the ground locations on one page. Here's the ones you need to check for sure.

1. There are 4 ground bolts on the driver's side of the engine
2. There is 1 ground on the left side of the engine
3. There is 1 ground on the outside of the frame at the driver's door
4. There is 1 ground on the frame at the passenger's side door.
5. There is 1 ground on the frame right inside the driver's side wheel well. It's on the right-hand side of the strut. you'll have to turn the tire to the right to get in there or take the wheel off would be even easier.

Make sure that after you clean all of them that you seal them with a battery connector seal. Something like, Permatex 80370 Battery Protector and Sealer. Those bolts will start to rust as soon as you are done cleaning them.
 
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DocBrown

Well-Known Member
With so many codes, I would be inclined to think it's the PCM. That or a wiring or power issue to these sensors or the PCM. Did all these codes appear all at once or one after the other over time?

Link in my signature for the manuals.
Just tested battery, rested for 10 minutes it showed 12.26 on my volt meter.
You need a new battery. Otherwise you are troubleshooting things that may not be real problems. I've gone through this. I would never have guessed battery but modern vehicles are not forgiving like older ones.
 

Maverick6587

Well-Known Member
You need a new battery. Otherwise you are troubleshooting things that may not be real problems. I've gone through this. I would never have guessed battery but modern vehicles are not forgiving like older ones.
I think I understand your point @DocBrown . If the components or PCM are not detecting the 12.7 volts, then it will not turn them on as a built-in safety for the components?

Could he test this with a battery jumper or another vehicle connected with jumper cables (with the other vehicle running)?
 
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513lette

Member
You need a new battery. Otherwise you are troubleshooting things that may not be real problems. I've gone through this. I would never have guessed battery but modern vehicles are not forgiving like older ones.
Battery is currently being charged at Autozone, ill check and see weather its actually holding a charge and replace if needed. Im keeping my fingers crossed that this at the very least gets rid of the circuit codes (or maybe all of them..i can dream right?) If it atleast gets rid of a couple of them though, Ill be happy and can focus on the others.
 

Mooseman

Moderator
I think I understand your point @DocBrown . If the components or PCM are not detecting the 12.7 volts, then it will not turn them on as a built-in safety for the components?
I don't think it's a safety thing per se but it's just electronics are just sensitive to voltage.
 

gmcman

Well-Known Member
Sorry if I missed anything. Did you change your fan clutch? I believe theres a 5v reference that runs through it.

Check all vacuum hoses, including the small one at the front of the Intake.

The rear vent valve is an easy fix of that's a code.

Have you cleaned your MAF meter? Are you using a K&N air filter?

At work....I'll try to read through it all again later.
 

DocBrown

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's a safety thing per se but it's just electronics are just sensitive to voltage.
Exactly. There are a lot of sensors that need power. Just a small drop will cause them to throw false readings. When this happened to me it was about -6 in January a couple of years ago. A boat load of codes, and worse my truck went into limp mode. Not fun. I think I was pulling 12.2 volts also. New battery, no more codes.
 

gmcman

Well-Known Member
Ok, looking over your posts this is how I would address this.

First of all, since you have the P0017 crankshaft code, I'm almost positive you need a CASE relearn. Some of these vehicles responded well to a reflash of the PCM.

So if it's feasible, I would start with a crank angle sensor relearn (CASE) and this needs to be done with someone with a TECH 2, the dealer if you cannot find anyone.

Check all your intake manifold bolts....even the hidden one behind the alternator. They use a 10MM socket and a 1/4" drive works great. These bolts only take 89 INCH-POUNDS, not foot pounds. If you dont have a torque wrench, just tighten past snug. Some of these bolts are doubled up...one above another. The bolts on each end have one bolt, the next set has two, then one, etc

Looks like this: red lines above bolts.

Screenshot_20190411-172020_Gallery.jpg

The I would change your plugs back to the 41-103 delco, make sure you torque your coil pack bolts to 89 inch pounds.

Also check the coil packs for the spring, make sure it has proper contact.

Replace the oxygen sensors with AC Delco sensors, especially the upstream. You can hold off o the downstream sensor for now. These sensors come out easy when the motor is cold, and allowed to idle for 1 min. Spray with some oil if you wish and use this tool...I find it the easiest to use.

image_13142.jpg


If an evap code, I agree try the gas cap, but if it's the vent valve they are inexpensive and easy to replace.

So I would personally try a reflash when you get the CASE relearn done...that's just me, but at least the CASE relearn. That should hopefully take care of the crank issues or at least point you towards something else....like maybe a chain that's loose or a bad phaser.

The intake bolts if loose will throw lean codes, a fresh set of 41-103 plugs and O2 sensor will cover those bases.

I've always had good luck replacing the fuel pressure regulator, I'm on my 3rd, changed at about 140K and 280K.

Keep us posted.
 
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513lette

Member
Sorry for the delay, with the weather going from 70 and sunny to 40 and rainy, and also getting the okay from county inspection to open up my tattoo shop, Ive been running like crazy...anyways..

Battery seems to have solved several of the issues, ALL circuit codes are now gone, and the two sensor intermittent codes are also gone. So theres a plus. did manage to check id say 80% of grounds on the truck, all were tight and clean. Long crank is still there.

Friend of mine took it to his shop yesterday morning and checked around, said that he doesnt feel its a true timing issue causing the couple of codes... yet anyways. The truck was pulling p0300 and p0171 for him again, and i guess that the random misfire can be caused by several things, but he specifically said, fuel injectors, o2 sensors, camshaft sensor or a bad cat. Cam sensor is working, both wiring and the part its self. So He suggested on focusing on the misfire and lean condition. Tuesday hes going to a smoke test, and hook it to a pressure guage. Hopefully that narrows it down even more for us.

My 10 year old looked at me the other day and said Mom, I think its time you just get a horse, its still fast, you wont have to mow the grass, and when something happens it wont be this hard to figure it out. Oh child, if only. lol
 

gmcman

Well-Known Member
Have you checked your intake manifold bolts yet?

Without seeing the fuel trims, I wouldn't personally look at the injectors being faulty yet.

The P0171 code, I'm 99% sure will not go away until you have a CASE relearn done. If you changed your crank sensor, that will trip that code.

The P0300 is a random misfire. Generally this happens when the PCM hasn't pinned down a certain cylinder/cylinders yet. This could be very likely because of your choice of spark plugs.

Never in any other vehicle ( that I owned) did a spark plug matter so much as this one.

Check all the coil packs and their springs as well.

When cold, the motor uses more fuel so if you have an intake manifold leak, this could introduce more air and cause a hard start when cold.
 
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513lette

Member
I could have swore i posted an update the other day but I guess i didnt. haha...

New battery solved quite a few codes, every circuit one is gone now.

Changing the plugs back to ACDelco made no difference, I didnt think it would honestly, since both brands from what ive seen are recommended for these trucks. Friend of mine toook it to his shop and did a smoke test, only leak was from the filler neck, so thats the Evap code. Dont think im going to jump and get it fixed now, but will do it soon.

Did find out the Cat was shot, had him replace it and were back in business. only code showing now is the Evap codes, which is the one that has been on for 4 years now. I guess the bad cat was throwing the p01071 code, and was the culprit of the deep thump noise with the idle issue in park. So he was right when he mentioned that sometimes that cat can cause issues with the cam/crank sensors and the p0171 codes.

The long/hard start is also completly gone. Intake manifold was fine, nothing out of the ordinary. The starting issue, was preset all of the time, truck could be fully warmed up, i could turn it off and right back on and it would have a longer crank than normal.

I never replaced the crank sensor, and honestly im glad that I didnt attempt it. I really wasnt ready to deal with that battle haha
 

gmcman

Well-Known Member
That's good to hear. As far as the plugs are concerned, there have been numerous situation-remedy issues with plugs so I had to recommend that.

Interesting about the cat and the P0171 code, I thought you had changed your crank sensor.

Awesome it's almost fully back in business.
 

TollKeeper

Well-Known Member
You did post an update, and I remember reading it.. Forum must of been hungry and ate it!
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Like I mentioned in another thread, the temp gauge is kinda real.

 

DocBrown

Well-Known Member
Yes, I thought it wasn't real when I had my TB. It went from just below the 210 all the time, to right on 210. I didn't think anything of it. Toasted my cat because of it. Changed the thermostat and it was back to just below 210.
 

HARDTRAILZ

Moderator
It lies at far more of a temp gap than 190-200...
 

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