Mooseman
Moderator
Question on value on my old vintage sleds
- Thread starter BrianF
- Start date
I made some progress today, some by some stroke of luck.
After lots of reading, it seams the old sleds with no regulator use high wattage light bulbs to absorb the excess created. What I knew but did not verify is that yes my lights work but they only work when the ignition switch is in place and on the run/lights setting. So when I was testing voltage, the ignition switch was off and I never paid attention to the lights as I don't see the taillight and the headlight points down when the hood is up. So.... with the engine running, lights on (taillight needed its contacts cleaned), the Evinrude gave 6 volts at 1500rpm idle and upwards of 18 volts when piss revved. Much better than the 30 but still a bit on the high side. I now realize I did not check to see if it was the bright or dim on when running. Either way, its on the right path.
Now for the Ghost. I ripped the carb off again, verified the float was slightly greater than parallel when inverted. I found the new O ring was too large and rolled off the recess where it sits when I stuffed in the discharge tube/main jet. I installed my other backup o ring and used an Xacto knife to carve it down to fit snug. I got it to fire and run on both cylinders a few times and rev a little bit. I then played with the hi/low needles and get it to rev a bit more. Then it just sprang to life. I think it had plenty of raw fuel to clear and needed some heat to do this. I removed the tools that were holding the exhaust pipes from the mufflers and it continued to run. I backed it out of the shed and listened to it idle (1500rpm) and how it revved. I played with the needles a bit more so that it wasn't loading up at idle and took it for a few spins in the yard. I leaned out the hi a bit as it was loading up under full throttle, not much but enough to clean it up some. I don't want to melt the pistons so final settings will be done when our bitter winter sets in. It restarted first pull of the recoil as well.
Its lights and rectifier work, was getting approx. 6 volts at idle and 15 when revved right up. Quite happy so far as it has some decent power when opened up. I will continue to run it a few times per week to ensure no further problems do not crop up prior to the cold.
So whats left on the list is to play around with the lighting, wiring (possibly getting a voltage regulator), get a fresh battery and ignition switch for the Evinrude. The Ghost needs a battery, plugs, reassembly of the exhaust, cowl bolts and a good cleaning.
After lots of reading, it seams the old sleds with no regulator use high wattage light bulbs to absorb the excess created. What I knew but did not verify is that yes my lights work but they only work when the ignition switch is in place and on the run/lights setting. So when I was testing voltage, the ignition switch was off and I never paid attention to the lights as I don't see the taillight and the headlight points down when the hood is up. So.... with the engine running, lights on (taillight needed its contacts cleaned), the Evinrude gave 6 volts at 1500rpm idle and upwards of 18 volts when piss revved. Much better than the 30 but still a bit on the high side. I now realize I did not check to see if it was the bright or dim on when running. Either way, its on the right path.
Now for the Ghost. I ripped the carb off again, verified the float was slightly greater than parallel when inverted. I found the new O ring was too large and rolled off the recess where it sits when I stuffed in the discharge tube/main jet. I installed my other backup o ring and used an Xacto knife to carve it down to fit snug. I got it to fire and run on both cylinders a few times and rev a little bit. I then played with the hi/low needles and get it to rev a bit more. Then it just sprang to life. I think it had plenty of raw fuel to clear and needed some heat to do this. I removed the tools that were holding the exhaust pipes from the mufflers and it continued to run. I backed it out of the shed and listened to it idle (1500rpm) and how it revved. I played with the needles a bit more so that it wasn't loading up at idle and took it for a few spins in the yard. I leaned out the hi a bit as it was loading up under full throttle, not much but enough to clean it up some. I don't want to melt the pistons so final settings will be done when our bitter winter sets in. It restarted first pull of the recoil as well.
Its lights and rectifier work, was getting approx. 6 volts at idle and 15 when revved right up. Quite happy so far as it has some decent power when opened up. I will continue to run it a few times per week to ensure no further problems do not crop up prior to the cold.
So whats left on the list is to play around with the lighting, wiring (possibly getting a voltage regulator), get a fresh battery and ignition switch for the Evinrude. The Ghost needs a battery, plugs, reassembly of the exhaust, cowl bolts and a good cleaning.
Mooseman
Moderator
Cool. I remember when working on an old Olympic that when the headlight blew, all the lights blew because if this voltage system. You hit the brake and everything dims. It had a battery but all it was for was to crank the engine. Crazy old crap.
Ya it is crazy old crap, that's for damn sure. I bloody well learned a lot in the few months since dinking around with these things. I am glad I had something solid to work off of but I still might look at some simple voltage regulators to ensure I don't boil a battery.
I was looking at the lights and man do they dim at idle and light up under throttle, also amazed none are burnt out. The Evinrude needed the tail light cleaned up as it worked in May but had some corrosion that needed a quick brush.
I even tipped the Ghost when turning in reverse. kept running and no damage.... just looked like a tool, similar to that pinko from your video link.
I was looking at the lights and man do they dim at idle and light up under throttle, also amazed none are burnt out. The Evinrude needed the tail light cleaned up as it worked in May but had some corrosion that needed a quick brush.
I even tipped the Ghost when turning in reverse. kept running and no damage.... just looked like a tool, similar to that pinko from your video link.
Mooseman
Moderator
It has reverse? Now there's a rich person's option there. The vast majority back then had no reverse. Back then, sleds were so light that you could just pick it up and throw it around. I'd have a heart attack with my Yamaton!
From what I gather, these were the Caddy's back in the day. Wide track, bogie suspension, reverse, cigarette lighter and electric start. These ones are on the heavy side, all steel. There is not much for paddles on the track so I will not be venturing into deep snow. I buried enough of the work sleds over the years, most were Polaris 550 fan cooled.
So more of an update. Found some time to work on the Ghost. I placed a clear segment of fuel line in and watched the fuel draw. Was piss poor. Its very slight. I then bypassed the fuel pump and ran the clear line to the carb. I primed the engine and it fired up decently and revved up and then died. I did this a few times and noticed that the fuel in the clear line (which I was holding vertical) was not dropping. I then reattached the fuel line to the pump and had it sucking straight from a jerry. Still no a poor draw as there was a massive air lock right at the pump fuel inlet. I primed the engine and she fired and I continued to keep it running on the primer.
Well this method stopped working as I noticed fuel on the dash. Pulled the primer apart and noticed the diaphragm was torn. Great... I then plugged the primer lines and tried this all over again thinking I had a small air intrusion causing a poor fuel draw. Not the case. Pulled the fuel pump apart and it was in great shape.
What I am thinking is the damn float is stuck closed, causing absolutely no fuel to enter. This would cause the air bubble to not clear and why it only ran on the primer.
I was completely out of light and using my headlamp to see so I will rip the carb off next day I get some sunlight.
Well this method stopped working as I noticed fuel on the dash. Pulled the primer apart and noticed the diaphragm was torn. Great... I then plugged the primer lines and tried this all over again thinking I had a small air intrusion causing a poor fuel draw. Not the case. Pulled the fuel pump apart and it was in great shape.
What I am thinking is the damn float is stuck closed, causing absolutely no fuel to enter. This would cause the air bubble to not clear and why it only ran on the primer.
I was completely out of light and using my headlamp to see so I will rip the carb off next day I get some sunlight.
Found time to clean the shed today and then spend a bit of time on the Ghost. I ran the impulse pumps output through clear line into a jerry and after some cranking, it is pumping fuel just fine.
Found that the new fuel line running from the impulse, through the firewall, to the carb was kinking right after the impulse. I bypassed this kink by running a loop of fuel line but still no fuel being pumped to the carb.
Tomorrow I will find the time to rip that carb off and check that float.
Found that the new fuel line running from the impulse, through the firewall, to the carb was kinking right after the impulse. I bypassed this kink by running a loop of fuel line but still no fuel being pumped to the carb.
Tomorrow I will find the time to rip that carb off and check that float.
I had installed the new ignition switch. It was an Indak 7 pin for a lawnmower. Plug and play and mounted to the dash quite well, no butchering. The issue I found: the OE switch has run/lights, run and start. The new switch has the lights on for all settings. Oh well, it turns the sled on and off and cranks the starter. Big deal.
I pulled the carb off and found some sort of very fine debris appears to have jammed the needle valve closed. I cleaned it out and reinstalled the thing. Gapped and installed the new resisted NGK plugs, which spark like a bloody light show. I cranked it for a bit to prime the system and away she went. Backed it out of the shed and let her run. Instant restart with the manual recoil. Idles well and runs great.
I found some fuel leaking out and it appears the line that goes to the carb inlet was loose. I snugged it up and it seems fine but I really need to put on some sort of clamp to be safe.
So now I just need to sort out some of the fuel line Frankenstein mess I have to make it appear stock.
I pulled the carb off and found some sort of very fine debris appears to have jammed the needle valve closed. I cleaned it out and reinstalled the thing. Gapped and installed the new resisted NGK plugs, which spark like a bloody light show. I cranked it for a bit to prime the system and away she went. Backed it out of the shed and let her run. Instant restart with the manual recoil. Idles well and runs great.
I found some fuel leaking out and it appears the line that goes to the carb inlet was loose. I snugged it up and it seems fine but I really need to put on some sort of clamp to be safe.
So now I just need to sort out some of the fuel line Frankenstein mess I have to make it appear stock.
I put in a good hour today on the sleds Both were hit with compressed air, which knocked out even more mouse shit, dirt and that shitty foam from the 70's that just crumbles. I mixed up 10 litres of 40:1 treated fuel (manual asks for 50:1 but I rather them run rich in the heat and while tuning) and put 5 in each sled to bring them to about half a tank.
I tucked in the loop of fuel line in the Ghost, buttoned down the battery and started her up. Starts really good considering there is no primer. I took her for some grass drag rips in the yard. I had to pull back the high needle as she loaded up way to quickly. In the end it was pulled back over half a turn, which really woke it up. I wonder if the clutch or belt need attention as it revs quite high in mid throttle compared to the Evinrude.
What I found with the Ghost is some sort of fuel starvation issue after a decent power run. It runs like a raped ape and when you stop (doesn't matter if you coast or apply the brakes) it will slowly power down and die. You give it a second to rest, a bit of choke and it fires up, sometimes dies but usually sputters to life and runs well again. Short full throttle bursts and abrupt braking do not cause this symptom. So this will take some more time to diagnose but overall I am happy, the thing does haul some ass though.
The Evinrude runs flat out awesome! It sets you back and gets rolling in a hurry, idles great and responds well to throttle input. It restarts great and just all around kicks ass.
I still need one more battery as the lawn mower unit has the terminals offset a bit too much. The positive cables are on the shorter end, which requires the battery to sit cock eyed in the tray. This fine for testing and farting around the yard but very unsafe otherwise. Also the terminal on the negative cable on the Evinrude is cracked. There is plenty of cable length and it is easy to remove, so I might take it to town and see if they can crimp on another terminal.
I tucked in the loop of fuel line in the Ghost, buttoned down the battery and started her up. Starts really good considering there is no primer. I took her for some grass drag rips in the yard. I had to pull back the high needle as she loaded up way to quickly. In the end it was pulled back over half a turn, which really woke it up. I wonder if the clutch or belt need attention as it revs quite high in mid throttle compared to the Evinrude.
What I found with the Ghost is some sort of fuel starvation issue after a decent power run. It runs like a raped ape and when you stop (doesn't matter if you coast or apply the brakes) it will slowly power down and die. You give it a second to rest, a bit of choke and it fires up, sometimes dies but usually sputters to life and runs well again. Short full throttle bursts and abrupt braking do not cause this symptom. So this will take some more time to diagnose but overall I am happy, the thing does haul some ass though.
The Evinrude runs flat out awesome! It sets you back and gets rolling in a hurry, idles great and responds well to throttle input. It restarts great and just all around kicks ass.
I still need one more battery as the lawn mower unit has the terminals offset a bit too much. The positive cables are on the shorter end, which requires the battery to sit cock eyed in the tray. This fine for testing and farting around the yard but very unsafe otherwise. Also the terminal on the negative cable on the Evinrude is cracked. There is plenty of cable length and it is easy to remove, so I might take it to town and see if they can crimp on another terminal.
After some discussions on another forum, it is suspected I have a fuel tank venting issue. Now that I look at it further, this is a classic symptom, one that I have had with some of my small OPE. The pump runs hard, causing a vacuum in the tank, eventually causing fuel starvation.
I recall the metal vent orifice was corroded and provided only a very small opening in which to vent. I was thinking I should ream it out when I had the tank off but obviously forgot. Now the line vents to the left side of the chassis under the seat. I will see what I can figure out.
I am also looking into doing the primary and secondary clutches myself. I can find no evidence that they were serviced in the last 44 years.
I recall the metal vent orifice was corroded and provided only a very small opening in which to vent. I was thinking I should ream it out when I had the tank off but obviously forgot. Now the line vents to the left side of the chassis under the seat. I will see what I can figure out.
I am also looking into doing the primary and secondary clutches myself. I can find no evidence that they were serviced in the last 44 years.
Well this post has turned more into a blog or what ever you call it. I don't want to be known as a blogger.
I checked my tank vent. The line runs to the left chassis and vents into the hollow rear bumper. Those components were clear. The brass orifice at the filler neck was removed and I found it completely blocked by oxidation. I ended up using a drill bit to clear it all out. Maybe took 20 minutes to tear down until it was buttoned up. I took it out for a few more power runs and never found any hesitation or stalling after.
But what I did observe was stumbling and stalling right after a cold start. I kept that clear line in place for this purpose (mind you it could also be the cause) and found there to be large air pockets in the line, which took some time for the pump to displace with pure fuel. After you run it for a couple minutes the line is purged and there are no further issues.
Its possible I introduced a slight air leak by adding that extra clear segment. I realized the ID was slightly larger than the OE line. Sure a clamp keeps it in place but it may not be air tight.
Here are some pictures of the fuel loop, belt
and the new ignition switch.
I checked my tank vent. The line runs to the left chassis and vents into the hollow rear bumper. Those components were clear. The brass orifice at the filler neck was removed and I found it completely blocked by oxidation. I ended up using a drill bit to clear it all out. Maybe took 20 minutes to tear down until it was buttoned up. I took it out for a few more power runs and never found any hesitation or stalling after.
But what I did observe was stumbling and stalling right after a cold start. I kept that clear line in place for this purpose (mind you it could also be the cause) and found there to be large air pockets in the line, which took some time for the pump to displace with pure fuel. After you run it for a couple minutes the line is purged and there are no further issues.
Its possible I introduced a slight air leak by adding that extra clear segment. I realized the ID was slightly larger than the OE line. Sure a clamp keeps it in place but it may not be air tight.
Here are some pictures of the fuel loop, belt
and the new ignition switch.
Mooseman
Moderator
I find your posts interesting, not just because I'm into sleds, it's cool to see the old school stuff that went into these. For a while, I was talking a lot about my Caprice, then the RV. We all have interests outside of GMT's.
It really is cool to rip into these old things. Seeing the engineering and ideas used in the day. My old man gave me some great advice prior to my current job, he told me to get hobbies and get ones where you build things and have something to show for it at the end. That and people cant fight when they cant breathe.
The other day I popped in a cheap lawnmower battery into the Evinrude. A cheapo from Walmart that cost 65 bucks including the core. Seems to work well as it cranked her over right quick. Might grab another....
Without prime both fire and run with 4 to 5 pulls of the recoil.
Without prime both fire and run with 4 to 5 pulls of the recoil.
Decided to check out the starters in the sleds. They use a belt from the starter to the flywheel. There is some sort of Bendix drive, when you crank the starter, the outside pully half closes, clamps the belt and turns the engine over. As soon as you let off the key start, the engine rotating will unlock the pully. I was finding that using the electric start, the motor spins over real fast and takes a while to engage the pully.
Found some dirt and rust was causing the pully half to not release or engage easily. It is an awful lot of work to pull the cowl off and access the starter so I used a bit of PB blaster on the Bendix and worked it in. The pully engages better, not great but better.
Found some dirt and rust was causing the pully half to not release or engage easily. It is an awful lot of work to pull the cowl off and access the starter so I used a bit of PB blaster on the Bendix and worked it in. The pully engages better, not great but better.
Couldn't wait for more snow so I took them out for a rip today on the grass. Both are running great but the Evinrude is just a bit smoother. Now just waiting for the kids to get home so they can have a tear as well.
I have not done too much to the sleds this far, just try to put a few miles on them when I have time. We still have very little snow so longer rides are out of the question. What I have done is replaced the belt on the Evinrude. It was not wore down width wise but has some deep cracks between the cogs. It's an old belt so that's life. The new one is in great shape but unknown age.
Still not much for snow but this is the last of our "warm" days. Took the girls out for a drive and had my oldest out on her own in the side yard. She was working on tighter turns and reversing. Just need some helmets now...
Since it warmed up this afternoon, its now like -15C, which is up from -27 overnight. I decided to rip the sleds out for a burn. The primer on the Evinrude seems very weak and the Ghost's has a small diaphragm tear. So I used a funnel to pour in some premix as a primer. Things fired up on second pull. Not like that commie block depiction of me that Mooseman posted.
Now the Ghost has not been running right, it revved up decently, takes off but runs out of steam real quick and a higher frequency vibration through the handlebars. Once and a while it will pull strong but not often. I was thinking purely clutch (I am going to tear them down for a cleaning when time/weather permits). Also noticed a small fuel leak from the carb bowl gasket.
I warmed the Ghost up and then baselined the hi/low needles as per the manual. 1 1/4 hi and 1 1/2 low. It was running better. In the end I fattened them up, both around 2 turns out. The vibration is much better and now she rip roars like a raped ape, if I ever saw one. I also tightened the discharge tube, which acts as the hold down for the bowl. Time will tell if that was the answer.
Now the Ghost has not been running right, it revved up decently, takes off but runs out of steam real quick and a higher frequency vibration through the handlebars. Once and a while it will pull strong but not often. I was thinking purely clutch (I am going to tear them down for a cleaning when time/weather permits). Also noticed a small fuel leak from the carb bowl gasket.
I warmed the Ghost up and then baselined the hi/low needles as per the manual. 1 1/4 hi and 1 1/2 low. It was running better. In the end I fattened them up, both around 2 turns out. The vibration is much better and now she rip roars like a raped ape, if I ever saw one. I also tightened the discharge tube, which acts as the hold down for the bowl. Time will tell if that was the answer.
Alright, the weather was decent so I ripped into the ghost to track down that vibration. I got a manual from the great folks on vintagesleds and decided tackle the clutch. It really was not that hard to do.
Pull the belt off, then lock the engine in place. I dis not have the factory tool to do this, so I removed the plugs and put some rope in each cylinder. The factory tool is just a long slender wrench that engages the crank.
I compressed the clutch and locked it in place with a c clamp. I then used a larger crescent wrench to back out the main nut, which encapsulates the neutral lockout. It then just pulls apart.
The thing was filthy but in good shape. I used carb cleaner to rinse all the parts down. On reassembly, you use a bit of grease on the neutral lockout and crank splines. Then just pop it all back together.
The sled is a bit snappier, pulls strong through the rev range and runs much, much smoother. It took me a couple hours, some choice words and a few knuckle scrapes but well worth it. Perhaps next week I may do the clutch on the evinrude.
Pull the belt off, then lock the engine in place. I dis not have the factory tool to do this, so I removed the plugs and put some rope in each cylinder. The factory tool is just a long slender wrench that engages the crank.
I compressed the clutch and locked it in place with a c clamp. I then used a larger crescent wrench to back out the main nut, which encapsulates the neutral lockout. It then just pulls apart.
The thing was filthy but in good shape. I used carb cleaner to rinse all the parts down. On reassembly, you use a bit of grease on the neutral lockout and crank splines. Then just pop it all back together.
The sled is a bit snappier, pulls strong through the rev range and runs much, much smoother. It took me a couple hours, some choice words and a few knuckle scrapes but well worth it. Perhaps next week I may do the clutch on the evinrude.
