Proprietary nature of German products

northcreek

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Jan 15, 2012
3,310
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My son called today saying that their BMW would not crank. Well the battery is 5yrs. old so that would be the likely culprit, right?...but here's the thing,even though my son knows his way around a tool box he cannot just put a new battery in.
Oh no.... BMW has to send a flat bed to take the car 25 miles to put their battery in it and then talk to the computer to accept the new battery....this is pure bullshit and why I have a love/hate relationship with German products, they make nice stuff but, they get you coming and going.
This is why I have many chainsaws and tools none of which are named Stihl, Metabo,etc.
ACHTUNG !! Deutschland...:rant:
 

Reprise

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Yes -- that's what I hate about German engineering (compared to, say, Japanese, in particular) - it's good, but overly complex, and (sometimes) less reliable and (always) expensive, as a result.

I drove an Audi A6 (?) as a rental once, back & forth between Miami and the Keys a few years back. After that trip, I recognized what everyone raved about, re: German cars and chassis / suspension (which does not apply to VW, no matter how much their owners try and glom onto the rep)

Anyway, while I appreciated how the car handled, I'd never buy / own one (unless it was leased). No disrespect intended toward you or your son, of course. I've been spoiled by US / Japanese vehicles... cheap, fairly reliable, and easier to fix.
 

TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
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Brighton, CO
Hate to say it, but even american/asian market cars are doing this now, especially if they are Hybrid.

The goal is to get rid of the back yard mechanic, unless they want to pay for one of those really expensive MAC/Autel/??? tool things. Was watching the replacement of a battery on a Cadi ATS on youtube, and the VO indicated there was a way to tell by how the wiring was at the fuse block.
 

Eric04

Member
Dec 3, 2014
392
West Michigan
German makers definitely do not want owners working on their machines and what is stranger still is that many of the owners accept this as perfectly fine and send the car to the dealer for everything. Thousands in maintenance costs is part of the experience. 🙄

I like Audi, I think about owning one now and then, but I always come to my senses.
 

littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
I could never get past the electrical problems... nightmare they all are. "My battery goes dead after sitting 2 weeks" BMWs response was a battery tender. :hopeless: mind you the car was about a month off the lot at that point.
 

Reprise

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To @TollKeeper 's point -- they're all getting 'that way'.
Also a few years back, the wife and I were looking at the Genesis sedan, and we were impressed enough to tell the sales drone to get the keys. Not ONE of them on their lot would start. He couldn't even jump them.

Needless to say, a Genesis did not grace our garage. :laugh:
 

littleblazer

Member
Jul 6, 2014
9,265
To @TollKeeper 's point -- they're all getting 'that way'.
Also a few years back, the wife and I were looking at the Genesis sedan, and we were impressed enough to tell the sales drone to get the keys. Not ONE of them on their lot would start. He couldn't even jump them.

Needless to say, a Genesis did not grace our garage. :laugh:
Well they did hire a lot of audi guys. Guess it shows. :crackup:
 

Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
Yep, they keep trying to make it more difficult for shade tree mechanics by adding more complexity. Hell, they even tried to make tuning illegal by saying they own the software in our PCMs. Information is also getting out there much easier because of the Internet. And when we catch up with access to the needed tools (*cough* Chinese cloned Tech2 *cough*), they screw us over again by making it obsolete, which is why I'm probably gonna hold out as long as I can and then, probably go with a 2014 as that was the last year. I looked at just replacing an ignition switch on a 2015 Tahoe because one of our old patrol trucks came up at auction giving an ignition switch error. If it has an error code for an ignition switch, it's gotta be complicated to replace.

However, Germans do take it a whole level higher.
 

northcreek

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Jan 15, 2012
3,310
WNY
The continuing story of my son's BMW. Turns out it wasn't the battery but, the CEM car entry module, which they had to order to the tune of $900. So it is still at the dealership and will continue to be there, because someone there tested positive for covid19 so now the dealership is in lockdown until it can be sanitized and nothing can leave until then...could be another week..:wowfaint:
 

C-ya

Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,098
Old thread but relevant as I just bought a 2010 VW Touareg to replace the TB. It had a battery put in the weekend before I picked it up. Cost? $500 total. It required a computer scan to code the battery to the truck. I bought the scan tool I needed as soon as I bought it. It was $200, so a few bucks cheaper than the Tech II clone. Software is free, so at least we have that going for us.

I knew going into the VW that it would be technical, and need to access the computer for just about everything. So far - two weeks into ownership - I'm loving it. It is a neutered dieselgate 3.0L TDI, and man, can it pull! I towed the boat to storage for the winter, and it hardly knew it was back there. 7,700 pound towing capacity so baby got back.

I have modified a few things, like giving myself control of the DRLs. No such luck as turning the light switch the left to turn them off like the TB! I also changed the lane change blinker count to 4 from the stock 3. Most folks were changing it to 5, but that seems like too much to me. Three is a little light, so I'll try 4 for a bit. I'll be doing fluids this weekend and a fuel filter, so I'll use the computer to prime the fuel pump and filter. They call all fluids "filled for life", but we know how that goes. Front and rear diff, transfer case, and transmission drain/fill/filter will get done along with an oil change.

A couple pics for ya. The TB was loaded, but this VW is nice. It is quiet, heavy, and just damn luxurious. I finally own a vehicle I can pair my phone to! Not as much cargo space as my EXT, but the back seats lay down flat so it is pretty decent.

jplgUPim.jpg


Ws6QyBxm.jpg


beUhMLTm.jpg


TmDDjzpm.jpg
 

mrrsm

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Oct 22, 2015
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Hmmmm. Ich bin sehr beeindruckt... Sehr hübsch. Wie haben sie das geschafft...? :ok:

Hmmmm. I am VERY impressed... It's Very Pretty. How did they do it... ? :ok:
 
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TollKeeper

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Dec 3, 2011
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Brighton, CO
I was actually entertaining the idea of one of the earlier ones, with the big v10 diesels. But then I decided it was a german car, and I likely wouldnt be able to afford working on it.
 
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C-ya

Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,098
Yeah, there is that. I'm going to do as much as I can for as long as I can. Pay when I have to but not until!
 
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Mooseman

Moderator
Dec 4, 2011
25,257
Ottawa, ON
I likely wouldnt be able to afford working on it.


My son just bought a 2015 Passat diesel 6 speed manual because he's a diesel tech and he wanted a diesel. Not a bad car and he bought the tool to scan and make changes to it. Being German though, like I told him, be prepared to pay though the nose for parts. He had to buy a block heater cord because it didn't come with it. That was $150 + tax. It has a nice setup with an access port in the bumper but if you want to be able to use it, you have to pay the piper to be able to use that proprietary plug. Wanna play? Bring das wallet!
 

C-ya

Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,098
I think I'm going to put an oil pan heater on mine. Takes forever to warm the oil up. I end up driving an extra mile or so to make sure it is warm when I go to and from work. Coolant comes up to temp nicely, but the oil takes a minute. Of course, the gauge starts at 150. I may have to drive it with the laptop and see how quickly it gets moving. We have only gotten below freezing a time or two so far, but winter is coming.
 

mrrsm

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Oct 22, 2015
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This Video holds the Best Information and Reasoning to validate changing to Mobil1 0w-30 Winter Motor Oil in locations suffering Deep-Deep Cold Conditions in Winter:

(Suggestion: Lower the Sound Volume B4 Starting the Video)

 

Eric04

Member
Dec 3, 2014
392
West Michigan
I think the key to affordable ownership of a Bavarian beast is doing what you've done; dive in and commit. Otherwise you're left with hefty maintenance bills from niche shops or stealers. Nice ride!
 
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C-ya

Member
Aug 24, 2012
1,098
This Video holds the Best Information and Reasoning to validate changing to Mobil1 0w-30 Winter Motor Oil in locations suffering Deep-Deep Cold Conditions in Winter:

I can't remember if I saw any 0W-30 oil that is 507 00 certified or not. I'll have to look. I have to run that cert or the diesel particulate filter (DPF) gets plugged up easily. I also still have some dieselgate warranty left (3 yrs/32K miles) so I don't want there to be any reason for them to deny a claim should something happen to the engine or emissions system.

ETA: Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 and ESP 5W-30 are 507 00 oils. Now to find it cheaper than I found the 5W-30 I just bought. Gonna be tough. I got Valvoline European Vehicle Oil XL-III for $4.33/qt from Amazon. Cheapest I see the Mobil 1 is $8.33/qt on Amazon. I need 9 liters / 9.5 qts.

I think the key to affordable ownership of a Bavarian beast is doing what you've done; dive in and commit. Otherwise you're left with hefty maintenance bills from niche shops or stealers. Nice ride!

Thanks!

I agree. I learned the value of a live data scanner with Torque, and then learned to appreciate two-way coms with the Tech II. I was NOT going to get this VW without a way to do as much as I could myself.
 
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