Pcmforless tune?

Denali n DOO

Original poster
Member
May 22, 2012
5,596
As many of you know I have no more warranty and im ready to start with some mods. First thing I'm thinking is the pcmforless tune. Can this tune accomplish better low end and increased mpg and still be good for towing. Is wheel size part of the tune inputs? My summer and winter tires are different sizes. 255-55-18 and 245-65-17. Not sure what effect that would have...

Thanks.
 

MacMan

Member
Mar 3, 2012
194
Denali n DOO said:
As many of you know I have no more warranty and im ready to start with some mods. First thing I'm thinking is the pcmforless tune. Can this tune accomplish better low end and increased mpg and still be good for towing. Is wheel size part of the tune inputs? My summer and winter tires are different sizes. 255-55-18 and 245-65-17. Not sure what effect that would have...

Thanks.

Get the tune with the requirements for the times you tow (mostly summer, I'm guessing). The main requirement you'd ask for would be for towing, as I think that will give you more low end torque.

Simply call them and run your requirements by them....they'll be able to tell you what tuning will work best for your application.
 

harmless

Member
Nov 21, 2011
2,049
:iagree: :thumbsup:

If you're that worried about it, get yourself a second PCM setup. You can then swap em out. One for winter, one for the rest of the time. :cool:


Seeing as I've just discovered that I'm "out of warranty" too, I might just pop for one of these things earlier than planned!! :undecided: :biggrin:
 

Denali n DOO

Original poster
Member
May 22, 2012
5,596
harmless said:
:iagree: :thumbsup:

If you're that worried about it, get yourself a second PCM setup. You can then swap em out. One for winter, one for the rest of the time. :cool:


Seeing as I've just discovered that I'm "out of warranty" too, I might just pop for one of these things earlier than planned!! :undecided: :biggrin:

If tire size is a requirement then maybe my speedo would read properly with the smaller size tires. Most trailer pulling is in the winter with covered trailer about 3000lbs. Summer just utility trailer here n there. That would be nice, a trailer towing PCM and a performance PCM. Wish I had the cash for that...
 

harmless

Member
Nov 21, 2011
2,049
Denali n DOO said:
If tire size is a requirement then maybe my speedo would read properly with the smaller size tires. Most trailer pulling is in the winter with covered trailer about 3000lbs. Summer just utility trailer here n there. That would be nice, a trailer towing PCM and a performance PCM. Wish I had the cash for that...

:rotfl: Now you're just being greedy. 3 PCMs?! :crazy:


Talk to the PCMForless guys. They'll take care of you and answer all your questions! :thumbsup: :wootwoot:
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
There is only 1 mph difference (@60 mph) between those tires.
I don't think that's going to make any difference to a tune.

Also, I believe the difference in the towing has more to do with how much torque management is removed for trans life.
Others may know more about that.
 

Lima Tango

Member
Dec 4, 2011
242
Don't get your hopes up too much. It was so highly recommended my expectations were very high and I was disappointed. Don't get me wrong, it did help with better power througout the curve esp low-end, but did not improve my mpg at all and I hate the 1-2 shift with the shift level 2. Their service is great, but I don't think I would do it again for the $200 expense.

And yes - the towing factor relates to how much torque mgmt they remove. With no towing they lower it to 20% if I recall correctly.
 

Denali n DOO

Original poster
Member
May 22, 2012
5,596
Lima Tango said:
Don't get your hopes up too much. It was so highly recommended my expectations were very high and I was disappointed. Don't get me wrong, it did help with better power througout the curve esp low-end, but did not improve my mpg at all and I hate the 1-2 shift with the shift level 2. Their service is great, but I don't think I would do it again for the $200 expense.

And yes - the towing factor relates to how much torque mgmt they remove. With no towing they lower it to 20% if I recall correctly.

I do have hi hopes because I hate the low end power this V8 produces, I want it to get up and go from a stop. I wanna smoke a 7000 pound f-150 of the line! I don't really care if I don't gain any mpg but don't nesessarily want to loose any either. Right now it seems to work well at 100kmh and over, seems it pulls pretty good up 140-150kmh. The low end grunt just isn't there stock. 3:73 rear as well! I know it'll never be like a TB SS.
 

Wooluf1952

Member
Nov 20, 2011
2,663
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Denali n DOO said:
I do have hi hopes because I hate the low end power this V8 produces, I want it to get up and go from a stop. I wanna smoke a 7000 pound f-150 of the line! I don't really care if I don't gain any mpg but don't nesessarily want to loose any either. Right now it seems to work well at 100kmh and over, seems it pulls pretty good up 140-150kmh. The low end grunt just isn't there stock. 3:73 rear as well! I know it'll never be like a TB SS.

The tune should help that.
The torque management keeps the throttle body from opening all the way, until the RPM's get higher, to save the trans.
 

harmless

Member
Nov 21, 2011
2,049
Sir, something just occured to me...

Garnet (06envoy) from Sudz has a custom PCMforless tune & I know he tows a ton of stuff with his.

Get in touch with him. He's a great guy, Imma sure he can answer most of your questions by experience!! :thumbsup:

He's got the Denali like you do...
 

06Envoy

Member
Dec 4, 2011
419
harmless said:
Sir, something just occured to me...
Garnet (06envoy) from Sudz has a custom PCMforless tune & I know he tows a ton of stuff with his.
Get in touch with him. He's a great guy, Imma sure he can answer most of your questions by experience!! :thumbsup:
He's got the Denali like you do...
I got your txt. :thumbsup:
Although I'm not sure what I can do to help. I can just relay my own personal experience.



Denali n DOO said:
As many of you know I have no more warranty and im ready to start with some mods. First thing I'm thinking is the pcmforless tune. Can this tune accomplish better low end and increased mpg and still be good for towing. Is wheel size part of the tune inputs? My summer and winter tires are different sizes. 255-55-18 and 245-65-17. Not sure what effect that would have...

Thanks.
If your interested, this is what I've learned while playing with my own truck.

I also run summer/winter tires and rims on all of my vehicles.
Don't worry about the tire size affecting the speedo. Two reasons.
1) The difference in outside tire size is so small that it doesn't make a difference.
2) The reality is that the dash speedo's are not accurate to start with. I have run four different speed scans and gotten four different speeds from each device at the same time. (While on a cross country trip to NFLD) Speedo, ODBII scanner, GPS and road side radar gun warning all gave different numbers. For the record I think I was travelling at 110kph. Results ranged from 103 to 109 to 111 to 116. My point? The range is big enough that the difference in tire size affecting your speed is smaller than the speedo error margin, so who cares about that level of accuracy when it's almost impossible to achieve in the real world.


Here is the most important thing that you asked for...Off the line performance!
In any tune, PCM4L or otherwise the single biggest thing that affects off the line performance is Torque Management (TM).
From the factory you will have 100% TM. This means that the computer changes the timing so that your engine still revs high, but actually produces less torque than it actually can, thus managing the torque sent to the transmission.
GM does this because at 300HP from the factory we are fast aproaching the limits of what the 4L60 can handle. I've been told about 340-360HP is about all the 4l60 can handle before it starts having reliablilty problems.
If you want go fast off the line, then ask for 100%TM removal. I did.
When you do, PCM4L will give you a warning telling you not to.
I would too.
If you choose to remove 100%TM then it's in no way PCM4L's fault if you blow up your tranny.
I can live with that so I pushed for and received 100%TM removal.
WARNING: If you do 100% TM removal, then you can almost certainly expect a shorter life span from your 4L60.

However that being said, check out my unofficial 1-100kph tests I've posted somewhere here against my wife's TB 4.2.
It wasn't until after my tune, efans and K&N CAI that my truck performed off the line like I thought a 300HP truck should! Which is why I thought about making a run against Harmless!
If anyone asks me, I wouldn't hesitate to suggest 100%TM removal while making sure that they fully understand the risks.

For reference, I've also tried 75%TM as well. That just sucks.... You get great performance off the line until you hit about 4k rpm and then the performance tapers off right when your engine is hitting it's peak HP. That just plain sucks and is fustrating.



As for MPG, I noticed that you have an 06. That's the first year the 5.3 came with DoD.
When you get the PCM4L tune ask for and make sure that you keep the DoD turned on if your worried about fuel economy.
I did. I'm still debating if that was a good idea or not. Now the truck surges when changing from 8 to 4 cyls and vice versa. I figure thats related to a lack of TM. TM would have helped smooth out the transitions.
At first I could feel it surge, but within two weeks, I can't feel it. It's only when someone new gets in with me and they ask about the surging that I'm reminded about it.
I have a simple solution. Drive over 105kph so the truck won't have a reason to drop down to 4cyls. :smile:
I asked Kelly when people get the tune, do they keep DoD on or not. She answered most people take it off. IDK, I kept it on and other than the surging I enjoy better fuel economy than my wife's 4.2. My average right now is 13.8l/100km according to my DIC.



As for towing, I pull a couple of Triton trailers. An 7x10 open trailer and a 16' vnose enclosed car hauler.
Because I'm using a ELM327 Bluetooth ODBII adapter and the Android app Torque, I'm monitoring my transmission tempurature all the time.
Here is my real world experience.

I'm towing my 7x10 open Triton empty heading south to Orillia for the spring Burls creek event.
I accidently leave Parry Sound Mcdonalds driving in 'D'.
I watch the temps climb to over 125c in less than 15 minutes. I'm doing ~120kph.
I drop back down to '3' while still doing 120kph.
Honestly the trans temp dropped back down to 97c within five minutes!
I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes.
Even towing empty, I run in '3'. Just to keep the trans temps lower. Especially after having 100%TM removed.





As for mods?
You'll get some different opinions.
Efan's.
PCM4L 100%TM removal Tune.
CAI Kit.

IDK after that.
I have bookmarked and thought long and hard about Stainless Works LT headers and true dual exhaust with x-pipe and all.
But that supposedly adds 30HP.

I'm personally too scared to keep going on mods on my stock 4l60(150k kms) while I'm enjoying 100% TM removal. I know I'm on borrowed time with it now, and if I keep chasing the HP then I'm into a $4k RPM 'Built 4l60'. And I'm not a money tree.
There's a reason why the 400HP TBSS doesn't use our drivetrain and I don't want to be one to find out why.
I think I'm happy with my mods as they are now.






Thanks for reading this far!
Thanks and have a good night!
I'm here all week, until Friday!

G'night folks!
 

ScarabEpic22

Member
Nov 20, 2011
728
My advice: Just do it.

Dont worry about towing, get an aux trans cooler if you dont have one already (PCM4Less has a solid kit, I have one on my SS). Ive towed both of my boats with my 02 that has 0 TM, 0 shift times, and a Vette servo plus a partial shift kit. My SS has 50% TM and lowered shift times so it shifts pretty well (dont want to get too crazy with it being a stock trans that could go any second) and tows the boats just fine.

If you really want to start modding, remember almost every mod that works on the SS works on the 5.3. Fenderwell intakes, efans, intake manifolds (Magnachargers, FAST intakes, etc), heads, cams, headers, exhaust, plug wires, etc. Pick your budget and go from there, there are a few guys with 5.3s on TBSSOwners putting down some serious power. Easiest way for +100hp would be buy a Magnacharger kit and have PCM4Less tune it.
 

essaycho348

Member
Mar 7, 2012
58
x2 on the just do it. I just got mine back in 24 hours ago. Truck has never seemed more alive. I love how it accelerates, shifts, and overall runs. I'd do it all over again but way sooner if i had the option.
 

harmless

Member
Nov 21, 2011
2,049
... and now that's outta the way and I'm outta warranty...

Garnet, you and I need to have a chat about that HPTuners... :biggrin:
 

marshall@pcm

Member
Dec 6, 2011
260
Denali n DOO said:
As many of you know I have no more warranty and im ready to start with some mods. First thing I'm thinking is the pcmforless tune. Can this tune accomplish better low end and increased mpg and still be good for towing. Is wheel size part of the tune inputs? My summer and winter tires are different sizes. 255-55-18 and 245-65-17. Not sure what effect that would have...

Thanks.


As has been said, a tune, e-fans, and a cold air intake would be a great starting point. Tire size definitely plays a part. Not sure how much of a difference there is is in those teo sizes, though. Looks marginal.
 

Denali n DOO

Original poster
Member
May 22, 2012
5,596
Thanks everyone for your input so far, much appreciated :thumbsup: !!
So I guess a CAI needs to be done at the same time for optimization of the tune? Any suggestions for one of those?
I'll have to plan this well since its the daily driver now and my only ride, downtime sucks...
Thanks.
 

06Envoy

Member
Dec 4, 2011
419
marshall@pcm said:
Our 4" CAIs are probably the best out there. With the fenderwell intake version being the better of the two we offer(standard kit goes to stock airbox). If you never plan to do inteneral engine mods, the stock MAF kits will be fine for you.

+1 on the 4" fenderwall kit.

I did mine ass backwards and got the K&N CAI first, then the PCM4L efans.
Now the K&N just seems stupid, with it's little flat spot.
Given the funds, I would redo my CAI with the 4" fender kit from PCM4L. Although it's a pain to install and relocate the washer tank, his dyno chart results don't lie.


Anyone wanna buy the K&N kit for the 5.3 with stock fans? :biggrin:
 

Denali n DOO

Original poster
Member
May 22, 2012
5,596
marshall@pcm said:
Our 4" CAIs are probably the best out there. With the fenderwell intake version being the better of the two we offer(standard kit goes to stock airbox). If you never plan to do inteneral engine mods, the stock MAF kits will be fine for you.

Okay, perfect. I'll wait till the next sale and do the loaner program and get tune and 4" CAI using stock air box. Now to figure out shift firmness 2 or 3 (prob 3), and TM 80% or 50% removed (prob 80%).
 

06Envoy

Member
Dec 4, 2011
419
Denali n DOO, wanna buy my K&N CAI kit so I can buy the 4" kit?
 

Denali n DOO

Original poster
Member
May 22, 2012
5,596
06Envoy said:
Denali n DOO, wanna buy my K&N CAI kit so I can buy the 4" kit?

Got any pics and a price in mind?
 

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